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Stafroty
02-22-2006, 12:15 AM
any calculations how many piloted fighters were Used by Russians, USA, England and other Allied Forces against German and Axis fighters, and the amount of bombers as well.

as well, is there any numbers how many tanks were used by both sides of the war?

how big armies both sides had?

all this info per year staticstics, it would give something to think about.

ImpStarDuece
02-22-2006, 01:15 AM
Annual military aircraft production 1939-1945:


Year - Britain - Germany - Italy - Japan - USA - USSR

1939 - 7,940 - 8,295 - 1,692 - 4,467 - 5,856 - 10,382
1940 - 15,049 - 10,826 - 2,142 - 4,768 - 12,804- 10,565
1941 - 20,094 - 11,776 - 3,503 - 5,088 - 26,277- 17,735
1942 - 23,672 - 15,556 - 2,818 - 8,861 - 47,836- 25,436
1943 - 26,263 - 25,527 -- 967 -- 16,693- 85,898- 34,845
1944 - 26,461 - 39,807 -- N/A -- 28,810- 96,318- 40,246
1945 - 12,070 - 7,544 -- N/A -- 8,263 - 49,761- 20,052

Total- 131,549 - 119,331 - 11,133 -76,950- 304,750 - 159,261

Source S.Wilson 'Aircraft of WW2', 1998

You can add to this the smaller or shorter production of nations such as France, Yougoslavia, Poland, Romania, Hungary, Australia, Canada and Holland, which together would account for around 30,000 more airframes, mostly French. Adding in a guesstimated 1936-1938 production of around 50,000-56,000 and it comes to around 850,000 aircraft that were made for WW2.

Stafroty
02-22-2006, 01:22 AM
Originally posted by ImpStarDuece:
Annual military aircraft production 1939-1945:


Year - Britain - Germany - Italy - Japan - USA - USSR

1939 - 7,940 - 8,295 - 1,692 - 4,467 - 5,856 - 10,382
1940 - 15,049 - 10,826 - 2,142 - 4,768 - 12,804- 10,565
1941 - 20,094 - 11,776 - 3,503 - 5,088 - 26,277- 17,735
1942 - 23,672 - 15,556 - 2,818 - 8,861 - 47,836- 25,436
1943 - 26,263 - 25,527 -- 967 -- 16,693- 85,898- 34,845
1944 - 26,461 - 39,807 -- N/A -- 28,810- 96,318- 40,246
1945 - 12,070 - 7,544 -- N/A -- 8,263 - 49,761- 20,052

Total- 131,549 - 119,331 - 11,133 -76,950- 304,750 - 159,261

Source S.Wilson 'Aircraft of WW2', 1998

You can add to this the smaller or shorter production of nations such as France, Yougoslavia, Poland, Romania, Hungary, Australia, Canada and Holland, which together would account for around 30,000 more airframes, mostly French. Adding in a guesstimated 1936-1938 production of around 50,000-56,000 and it comes to around 850,000 aircraft that were made for WW2.

ho much of these planes were used against Germany?

and how many planes were germany able to use, in the late of the war, i recon that they were no gasoline for army to work anymore. that as well, was one BIG reason, why germany lost the war.

LEXX_Luthor
02-22-2006, 01:30 AM
I have seen it asked in an article -- all those 20,000 Bf-109s made in 1944, where did they all go?



Germany ... 1944 - 39,807

Stafroty
02-22-2006, 01:32 AM
ALLIED

USA 304,750
USSR 159,261
Britain 131,549

total 595,560 planes

AXIS

Germany 119133
Italy 11133
Japan 76950

Total 207,216 planes

seems that AXIS had some rought 30% the planes, what Allied had.


How often there was shortage of Fuel/oil between Axis/Allied?

How many pilots there were trained between these 2 groups?

how many mens did serve in war, how many total were draft in army in each country?

Stafroty
02-22-2006, 01:34 AM
Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
I have seen it asked in an article -- all those 20,000 Bf-109s made in 1944, where did they all go?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Germany ... 1944 - 39,807
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

did those all planes have fuel?

You also can ask, where did disappear Allied fighters and bombers. How many Allied pilot were lost during the war? how many planes didnt return over enemy territory?

Stafroty
02-23-2006, 12:44 AM
why no replyes?

does these "power graphs" tell something about "numerical advantage"

is this case too sensitive to think about?

good read is: http://www.netstoreusa.com/hjbooks/071/0714650528.shtml
ISBN: 0714650528

Monson74
02-23-2006, 02:04 AM
Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
I have seen it asked in an article -- all those 20,000 Bf-109s made in 1944, where did they all go?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Germany ... 1944 - 39,807
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes - it's interesting that Germany's production peaked in '44 when the Allied bombing activity was also very high. I think the main problems for the Germans were fuel, logistics (conflicting personal agendas of those in charge) & supply-lines more than the production itself. Albert Speer explains some of this in his book but I can't remember the details.

Stafroty
02-23-2006, 04:29 AM
Plane with noob inside it has no worth, it just atracts the kill thieds around, while real aces make the work http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Stafroty
02-27-2006, 04:53 AM
is this too sensitive issue?

Stafroty
02-27-2006, 05:18 AM
how many planes/pilots were lost per each country? is there any statistics?

ImpStarDuece
02-27-2006, 07:05 AM
In the ETO, from September 1939 to May 1945, RAF Fighter Command lost the following equipment in the UK and over Europe to all causes:

3,484 Spitfires
1,388 Hurricanes
1,117 Typhoons
565 Mosquitos
222 Tempests
188 Mustang I/IIs
187 Mustang III/IV
95 Beaufighters
80 Defiants
52 Whirlwinds
49 Blenheims
39 Havoc/Bostons
21 Gladiators
17 Seafires
5 Tomahawks
3 Meteors

7,420 Aircraft lost to all causes

5,607 aircrew lost
896 aircrew wounded

In the last 18 months of ETO operations almost 2/3 of losses to enemy action were from Flak.

Against this Fighter Command in the ETO made claims for ~10,750 destroyed, 4,779 probably destroyed and 3,785 damaged. Research suggests that the destroyed and probably destroyed figures should be reduced by anywhere from 1/3 to 2/5, while damaged claims are usually reasonably accurate.

Bomber Command lost a total of 10,724 aircraft to all causes. Over 55,000 aircrew lost thier lives.

Against this Bomber Command flew a total of 392,137 sorties in the war period. The loss rate was around 2.7%.

For any given 100 aircrew in Bomber Command, 1939-1945,
the statistical breakdown was:
Killed on operations 51
Killed in crashes in England 9
Seriously injured 3
Prisoner of War 12
Evaded capture 1
Survived unharmed 24


The USAAF statistical digest has detailed information on USAAF losses in all theatres.

Totals for both first line losses (combat and accident) and second line losses (other causes):

ETO 17,082
MTO 10,612
Far East 7,229
CBI 3,289
PTO 1,394
20th AF 651
Alaska 492
All Theatres: 41,575

Solid German, Italian, Soviet and Japanese numbers are much harder to pin down. Many Japanese and German records were either destroyed inadvertently or on purpose in the closing months of the war. However, the complete loss records of the LuftWaffe fighter organisation have survived.

Stafroty
02-27-2006, 07:41 AM
so there was 110 000 aircraft on to use for british during after war, if we count the downed ones off the list. Thats still almost the count what germans had during the war http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

USAAF got some 260 000 planes left after war.


was there any kind of numerical superiority against Axis side? or was those fights always with equal forces`?

There is connection between BOB and war against germany, where Germany was defending its soil, just like was British defending theirs. In both ways, it seems that Defender got more kills than the attacker, as defender was more "elastic" while attackers had to follow orders where to attack in big group. its easier to manipulate smaller forces more efficiently, than big ones.

berg417448
02-27-2006, 08:43 AM
Originally posted by Stafroty:
how many planes/pilots were lost per each country? is there any statistics?

There are no charts but in "Adolf Galland The Authorised Biography" there are a lot of statistics given and you can get some idea of the losses suffered.

For example, according to this book, from January to May 1944 the Jagdwaffe lost 99% of its average personnel strength: 2,262 killed or seriously injured against an average strength of 2,283.

Later on it is stated that on August 14, 1944 Luftflotte 3 had just 75 operational fighters. By the end of that month it had lost 482 fighters, while Luftflotte Reich lost 375. In total, the book states that the Luftwaffe lost 44% of its available fighter force in that single month and of the remaining fighters only 50% were servicable and fit for combat.

During this period fighter production was actually increased.


Near the end of the book it states that the Luftwaffe lost 97,000 dead, missing , or wounded in the war and of these losses 20,300 were fighter pilots.

Kocur_
02-27-2006, 09:20 AM
Official VVS statistics. (http://pkka.narod.ru/airlosses.htm)

ImpStarDuece
02-27-2006, 03:00 PM
German losses between September 1943 and December 1945, destroyed, written off or otherwise out of commission:

Western Front:

Fighters: 5,311
Bombers & others: 4,474
Total: 9,785

Reich Defence

Fighters: 7,758
Bombers and others: 5,049
Total: 12,807

Balkans and MTO

Fighters: 1,621
Bombers and others: 2,847
Total: 4,468

Total West:

Fighters: 14,720
Bombers and others: 12,340
Total: 27,060

Eastern Front:

Fighters: 2,294
Bombers and others: 6,306
Total: 8,600

Total both fronts:

Fighters: 17,014
Bombers & others: 18,646
Total 35,660



German losses for the Battle of Britain period (July 10, 1940-October 31, 1940) to all causes:

1,767 lost ( + 178 written off after return to Germany so really 1,945) 570 damaged.

Some accounts put German loss figures at a lower 1733 destroyed and 643 damaged. However, these generally don't count costal bombers, rescue and reconnisance losses during the Battle period or aircraft written off on return to Germany.

huggy87
02-27-2006, 07:13 PM
Great thread. Thanks for all the data impstarduece. It really does make you wonder where all the aircraft went. For example the U.S. made some 15000 mustangs, but at anyone time only about 2-3000 were operational. They certainly did not lose over 10000 of them.

VW-IceFire
02-27-2006, 07:18 PM
Originally posted by huggy87:
Great thread. Thanks for all the data impstarduece. It really does make you wonder where all the aircraft went. For example the U.S. made some 15000 mustangs, but at anyone time only about 2-3000 were operational. They certainly did not lose over 10000 of them.
Training, storage, reserves, spares, etc.

Lots of Spitfires were built and put into storage almost straight away. The stories of many of the aircraft that fly at todays airshows usually involve having been built and never assigned a squadron and stored somewhere, sold to another nation after the war, and bought back by private interest in the 60s or 70s. I'm sure the story is true of the Mustang and Thunderbolt and many other types.

berg417448
02-27-2006, 07:27 PM
Unfortunately these lists do not separate combat losses and accidental losses and do not list losses by specific aircraft types.


US Aircraft (all) losses Overseas all types /theater/ and all losses

http://www.au.af.mil/au/afhra/wwwroot/aafsd/aafsd_pdf/t100.pdf

US fighter losses Overseas all types/ theater/ all losses

http://www.au.af.mil/au/afhra/wwwroot/aafsd/aafsd_pdf/t104.pdf

ColoradoBBQ
02-27-2006, 07:58 PM
Originally posted by Stafroty:
so there was 110 000 aircraft on to use for british during after war, if we count the downed ones off the list. Thats still almost the count what germans had during the war http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

USAAF got some 260 000 planes left after war.

Not quite that many airplanes. If you read stories of Bud Anderson or George Preddy, you'll notice that their warplanes degraded quickly over time and have gone through several replacements.