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CannonFodda_99
08-06-2005, 05:39 PM
Hello all

Im new to these games, having come over from CFS. I have Forgotten Battles and Pacific Fighters, and like to play on 100%

I wondered how you keep looking around using the mouse, as I usually have one hand on the contol column and one on the throttle, and during dogfights I find it hard keeping sight of my enemy. The joystick hat switch is not much use as the view turns so fast.

Any tips as to help my situational awareness and how to check the sky around me would be much appreciated.

Cannon

vigilante33
08-06-2005, 05:53 PM
try your f9 key with your joystick hat, should get you going right...

Monty_Thrud
08-06-2005, 05:53 PM
DUDE!...welcome...take a seat...and get yourself Track IR (http://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/)...its the future and if you like flight simming...its the only way for SA

F16_Neo
08-06-2005, 06:21 PM
Hi and welcome to your new addiction!
TIR is indeed the ultimate way to go in terms of SA, but if you are on budget or want to evaluate before buying hardware, try putting your mouse in the left hand (provided you have space for it).
Worked good for me once I got used to it. Now I can even do my web-browsing using left hand only, freeing up right hand for other stuff... like the occational Spitfire Ale http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

Tully__
08-06-2005, 06:27 PM
Many of the fancier joysticks allow you to use a hat switch to emulate mouse input. Great for views.

If yours is not one of those, look up JoyToKey or NewView, both of which allow you to assign a joystick hat as mouse emulation when not directly supported by the joystick driver/profiling software.

Joysticks that support this natively include Saitek's Evo & X-36/45/52, CH Products and Thrustmaster Cougar.

CannonFodda_99
08-06-2005, 06:50 PM
Thanks guys, this game has a bit of getting used to after cfs.

Ill try using mouse in left hand first off.

I would try the joystick hat switch mouse emulation, but I am currently suffering from the dreaded "error 1335" so i cant use the game on my new computer with good joystick, and i have to use my old computer with old sidewinder pro http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

Cannon

Pirschjaeger
08-06-2005, 09:36 PM
In the beginning, I had a big problem with my SA. My buddy, JG/54 Serpentblade, helped me get over this.

We flew online and did some simple d-fighting, same planes; "simple' described my skills. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

He would both record each fight and he'd send me his track. By watching my track, then his, through his cockpit, I was able to see my mistakes quite clearly. After watching these and thinking a lot about this, I was able to solve my SA problem.

I was depending to heavily on my hatswitch. I learnt to make a mental image of the possibilities, therefor relying less on the hatswitch and my eyes. Depending on the situation, the limitations are easy to imagine.

Example: When flying the 109g2 against a P-47, I know my advantages are in turning verticaly or horizontally. So, in a headon pass I simply use a turning climb and don't even bother to try to view the enemy until a certain point. That point you must decide for yourself.

The P-47 can climb higher than the 109 after the pass, as long as he doesn't turn. The 109 can climb and turn better. So, I know that once I've turned plus or minus 90 degrees, it's time to take a look.

My point is simple and of course just an opinion. Don't rely to heavily on viewing. Use the mental force Luke. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Seriously, you cannot see your mistakes from your own track as well as you can from your opponant's track. Try it.

Fritz

Stigler_9_JG52
08-06-2005, 09:36 PM
Your HAT SWITCH, you ninny!!!!! Jeez, I can't believe you are asking this....

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

Pirschjaeger
08-06-2005, 09:48 PM
Originally posted by Stigler_9_JG52:
Your HAT SWITCH, you ninny!!!!! Jeez, I can't believe you are asking this....

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

I'm guessing you are fortunate enough to have a TrackIR?

Fritz

VW-IceFire
08-06-2005, 11:24 PM
Originally posted by Stigler_9_JG52:
Your HAT SWITCH, you ninny!!!!! Jeez, I can't believe you are asking this....

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif
For an aweful lot of us...its all we've got.

CannonFodda_99
08-06-2005, 11:43 PM
thanks Pirschjaeger. I think i try to 'look' around to much instead of anticipating the enemy's manouvers, thanks for the tips.

Cannon

Pirschjaeger
08-06-2005, 11:47 PM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Stigler_9_JG52:
Your HAT SWITCH, you ninny!!!!! Jeez, I can't believe you are asking this....

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif
For an aweful lot of us...its all we've got. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey, I remember you from the "Hatswitch" support group! Don't worry, we'll be ok. Chin up brother.http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

Fritz(confessed hatswitch loser, ...opps, I mean user) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Pirschjaeger
08-06-2005, 11:49 PM
Originally posted by CannonFodda_99:
thanks Pirschjaeger. I think i try to 'look' around to much instead of anticipating the enemy's manouvers, thanks for the tips.

Cannon

That was my problem. SA is more mental than visual, unless of course you are part of the aristocracy and have TrackIR. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Fritz

Fehler
08-07-2005, 12:13 AM
Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
...unless of course you are part of the aristocracy and have TrackIR. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Fritz

I am a TrackIR Nazi.

JG54_Arnie
08-07-2005, 12:34 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif


For me the mouse is the only way to go, and the only thing fast enough to keep up. Its true that its a little bit awkward with the throttle sometimes, but if you have them close together thats a minor problem.
You can also try mapping different angles to look at to different keys or buttons and be able to quickly switch the major direction you are looking at. But its probably not the best solution. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif At least there's enough things to try in the configuration of the controls.

Pirschjaeger
08-07-2005, 12:46 AM
Originally posted by Fehler:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
...unless of course you are part of the aristocracy and have TrackIR. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Fritz

I am a TrackIR Nazi. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

I still don't get it. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Fritz http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Pirschjaeger
08-07-2005, 12:47 AM
Originally posted by JG54_Arnie:
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif


For me the mouse is the only way to go, and the only thing fast enough to keep up. Its true that its a little bit awkward with the throttle sometimes, but if you have them close together thats a minor problem.
You can also try mapping different angles to look at to different keys or buttons and be able to quickly switch the major direction you are looking at. But its probably not the best solution. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif At least there's enough things to try in the configuration of the controls.

Arnie, are you left handed? Somehow I think that's an advantage for those that get used to using the mouse.

Fritz

JG54_Arnie
08-07-2005, 02:25 AM
No, it took me some time to get used to using the mouse with the left hand, but after some practise its the best thing sinds fresh bread. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

But I suppose the same problem goes for the lefthanded as they will want to use the left hand on the joystick and have to get used to using the mouse with the right hand? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

rnzoli
08-07-2005, 02:54 AM
Originally posted by CannonFodda_99:
Any tips as to help my situational awareness and how to check the sky around me would be much appreciated.
Check out the "practice tips for newcomers" sticky thread, where I asked a similar question and BearCat provided a collection of good tips for IL2.

I would add that SA is easier to learn with B&Z attacks, than with T&B. Frantically looking around for the visually lost enemy is usually a message to hit throttle 110% and gain some altitude http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

SA is also much better when flying in wing with someone, because when I loose sight of the opponent, usually my pair can tell me where I should find it.

PS. Without a pair, I also know where to find the enemy. I just watch my six, and sooner or later it appers there.... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

rnzoli
08-07-2005, 02:59 AM
Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
you are part of the aristocracy and have TrackIR.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif "When I hear the word 'trackIR', I reach for my pistol."

With a fast CPU, everyone can have a trackir alternative called Freelook, about 1/3 of trackir price.

I have one of those, much easier to follow enemy planes in T&B combat, but... i regularly get beaten by guys using the mouse for viewing in the fully difficulty server. Aristocracy? Pffft.

neural_dream
08-07-2005, 05:19 AM
Originally posted by Tully__:
Many of the fancier joysticks allow you to use a hat switch to emulate mouse input. Great for views.

If yours is not one of those, look up JoyToKey or NewView, both of which allow you to assign a joystick hat as mouse emulation when not directly supported by the joystick driver/profiling software.

Very useful tip. I tried NewView and now i'm much happier with my evo's hat switch. In fact i don't anymore feel i desperately need TIR as i used to http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Stigler_9_JG52
08-07-2005, 02:29 PM
Pirschjaeger wrote:

I'm guessing you are fortunate enough to have a TrackIR?

No, I don't have a TrackIR. I have a hat on my stick, and that's all I need. Don't need padlock, don't need TrackIR, don't need nothin' else.

I move my thumb a quarter of an inch in any direction and I see fine. A pinky switch adds "up modifier".

By the way, one's SA usually stems from knowing WHERE to look, and WHEN to look, not by how one gets his view there. That's what so many people miss.

Visuals are too important to trust the PC to do it for you. Learn to get your OWN views all the time.

(Of course, it's nice to have a gadget like TrackIR, if you can afford it, but I'd sooner put the $$$ into good rudder pedals or a good throttle unit. It's purely a luxury item)

Pirschjaeger
08-07-2005, 09:00 PM
Originally posted by Stigler_9_JG52:
Pirschjaeger wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I'm guessing you are fortunate enough to have a TrackIR?

No, I don't have a TrackIR. I have a hat on my stick, and that's all I need. Don't need padlock, don't need TrackIR, don't need nothin' else.

I move my thumb a quarter of an inch in any direction and I see fine. A pinky switch adds "up modifier".

By the way, one's SA usually stems from knowing WHERE to look, and WHEN to look, not by how one gets his view there. That's what so many people miss.

Visuals are too important to trust the PC to do it for you. Learn to get your OWN views all the time.

(Of course, it's nice to have a gadget like TrackIR, if you can afford it, but I'd sooner put the $$$ into good rudder pedals or a good throttle unit. It's purely a luxury item) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree 110%. The TrackIR would be the finishing touch.

I do the same as you; hatswitch. I don't use padlock either. I don't have a pinki switch. I use the space bar instead. The only draw back to using the space bar to look up is when I'm in the middle of a d-fight and I accidentally hit the "windows" button. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

Very frustrating since the game continues. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Fritz

Tully__
08-07-2005, 10:04 PM
Originally posted by neural_dream:
Very useful tip. I tried NewView and now i'm much happier with my evo's hat switch. In fact i don't anymore feel i desperately need TIR as i used to http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Evo is one of those joysticks that supports mouse emulation with the manufacturers drivers. I set up my girlfriends to emulate mouse using the Saitek SST profiling software.

Xiolablu3
08-08-2005, 01:56 AM
I have left hand on the keyboard flying the plane, with right hand either doing flaps,guns or looking around with the mouse.

Works OK for me, of course a joystick will hopefully make things a bit easier.

neural_dream
08-08-2005, 04:34 AM
Originally posted by Tully__:
Evo is one of those joysticks that supports mouse emulation with the manufacturers drivers. I set up my girlfriends to emulate mouse using the Saitek SST profiling software.
I did the same too some time ago but it wasn't that good. You can only adjust the speed, not the acceleration of that virtual mouse. I find NewView much better.



Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
of course a joystick will hopefully make things a bit easier.

a bit? You have no idea http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Capt_Haddock
08-08-2005, 05:07 AM
Do yourself a favour and get Track IR. There's nothing like it, believe me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

And for those who say it's too expensive, just look at this...

Cheap PC = 1000 "
Cheap Joystick = 40 "
IL2 = 50 "
FB = 20 "
Pacific Figters = 50 "
-------------------
Total = 1160 "

So you have spent at least 1160 " to play IL2 and you say you can't afford the extra 78.65 " of Track IR???!! It's just a little more than a PC game!!!

Just get one and enjoy flightsims like you've never done it before. Track IR has become a fundamental piece of equipment for me, as important as the joystick.

http://www.haddock.f2s.com/sig/F19bannerh3.jpg

Pirschjaeger
08-08-2005, 05:49 AM
Originally posted by Tully__:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by neural_dream:
Very useful tip. I tried NewView and now i'm much happier with my evo's hat switch. In fact i don't anymore feel i desperately need TIR as i used to http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Evo is one of those joysticks that supports mouse emulation with the manufacturers drivers. I set up my girlfriends to emulate mouse using the Saitek SST profiling software. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't you guyz hate it when Tully flaunts his expertise? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif I'm jealous. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

Fritz http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

clipper2
08-08-2005, 06:43 AM
Everytime I lose the enemy, I hit the F6 Button. Points 'em out every time.
Cheers.

Kocur_
08-08-2005, 06:43 AM
TIR aristocracy? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Wonder who I am after building myself working Freelook device, using it and being happy with ithttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.freelook.org

horseback
08-08-2005, 02:15 PM
If you're going to use a mouse to look around, I'd suggest getting a trackball that can be used with either hand-takes up far less space. Logitech makes a good one called the Mouseball for a reasonable price (almost makes up for their joysticks...)

cheers

horseback

PS Tully, I'm quite jealous. I could never get my significant other to emulate anything...

GreyBeast
08-08-2005, 03:41 PM
Originally posted by F16_Neo:
...Now I can even do my web-browsing using left hand only, freeing up right hand for other stuff... like the occational Spitfire Ale http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

...or the occasional "scratch of the balls"?

Oops, wrong thread? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

danjama
08-08-2005, 04:58 PM
one word, NewView! I love it. More info? sure, message me or ask here. It really is the free, easy alternative to a basic POV hat switch. Use your Hat to simulate mouse movement. Now i can turn and look at my six, then adjust it as i please, believe me this is the way to go.

Pirschjaeger
08-08-2005, 10:11 PM
Originally posted by Kocur_:
TIR aristocracy? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Wonder who I am after building myself working Freelook device, using it and being happy with ithttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.freelook.org

Kocur, you might end up being the one who starts a revolution. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I just checked out the link you provided and started d-loading the software and manuals. I will look into this and see if it works well for me. If so, then we must inform the masses and start a revolution.

Can't write more now, must go dust off the guillotine. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

BTW Kocur, you're an anarchist. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
Fritz

Pirschjaeger
08-08-2005, 10:17 PM
Originally posted by danjama:
one word, NewView! I love it. More info? sure, message me or ask here. It really is the free, easy alternative to a basic POV hat switch. Use your Hat to simulate mouse movement. Now i can turn and look at my six, then adjust it as i please, believe me this is the way to go.

Now i can turn and look at my six, then adjust it as i please

Might I suggest buying a new deskchair? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Ok, I'm asking. Was it hard to set up or get used to? Not the chair, the "Freelook".

Fritz

rnzoli
08-09-2005, 01:14 AM
Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by danjama:
one word, NewView!

Ok, I'm asking. Was it hard to set up or get used to? Not the chair, the "Freelook".

Fritz </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif Uhmmm... are you asking about NewView, or Freelook? These are completely different stuff.

alert_1
08-09-2005, 02:12 AM
Left hand on mouse, looking around constantly (more time spening checking my six then looking forward), mouse buttons for flaps/radiator management, wheel fo trim (4.01 needs constant trim adjustment). That work for me and for OTHERS even more, they shot me down more then often LOL!

Pirschjaeger
08-09-2005, 02:58 AM
Originally posted by rnzoli:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by danjama:
one word, NewView!

Ok, I'm asking. Was it hard to set up or get used to? Not the chair, the "Freelook".

Fritz </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif Uhmmm... are you asking about NewView, or Freelook? These are completely different stuff. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oooops, my bad. I thought they were the same. Ok, what's the difference?

Fritz

neural_dream
08-09-2005, 03:27 AM
I tried NewView. It's easy to install. Just make sure you disable all hatswitch stuff from the controls of the game and all center view stuff (e.g. the numpad5 etc.). Then follow the readme info. By default i find the acceleration of the head movement to be higher than i wanted it and that was the only thing i changed (i think it's called ending speed. The starting one i left it the way it was). Also, you may want to add shortcuts to specific views like the mirror or the instruments or a shortcut for the 360 degree view etc etc. Generally, it's not trivial but not difficult either to configure NewView.

rnzoli
08-09-2005, 08:15 AM
Freelook is for those, who have a webcam (an average one will do) and sufficiently powerful PC. It is more complicated than NewView, because we have to make some 'hardware' for it, meaning a cap or a head-band holding an LED towards the screen (and the small batteries at the back of the head).

The webcam is mounted on the top of the monitor just like TIR, watching you http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. When you sit normally, flight controls in hand/under feet, the LED on your head-band or cap should point into the center of the webcam FOV. When you turn your head left/right/up/down, the webcam detects that the LED signature moves within its FOV. The Freelook software calculates the move and gives a mouse-like input to the PC.

AGain, not so easy to set up like NewView, but quite rewarding, because it is a great sight to do successful deflection shooting while tracking the target with your head movement, and no need to mess with the hat switch (I have programmed them for FOV zoom-in/zoom-out).

One drawback to mention: the high probability of motion sickness for the first time you try to fly with it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

rnzoli
08-09-2005, 08:17 AM
Forgot to mention another drawback: when you get used to it, you may not notice anymore that you are wearing a bright LED on your head, and you can easily open the door for the neighbours with it! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

This thing never happens with NewView http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Pirschjaeger
08-09-2005, 08:32 AM
And what is NewView? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Fritz

Kocur_
08-09-2005, 09:59 AM
An average webcam will do indeed. Resolution is not the question, I use 160x120. What matters is fps. The webcam must be software adjustable, so that one can lower picture quality settings and increase fp., 30 fps is very much ok.

The best LED would be IR LED, as you wont see its reflection on screen. I never got (bought or took out of remote control) one "bright" enough. It must be bright because webcan ofen "see" it from aside,i.e when you turn your head. I have visible light, large green LED. Its reflection is visible on screen but after a while you dont notice it at all.

The "device" must contain some way of attachaing it to your head, a LED, some wires, some small swich would be very useful.
I use headset. The LED must be somehow moved forwards to your head movement axis. I used 10cm part of bicycle spoke. I "glued" it with the...emmm...hot plastic pistol to headset, on the other end LED is attached.

The power question: I used to have two AA or R6 batteries holder on the headset. You can be surprised how much energy LED uses...And you risk being taken for crippled ET if happens what rnzoli wrote http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

So after my freelook device ver. 1.1 (there was FD 1.0 but it was too radical http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif)
time has come for non-wireless 2.0. I though about USB as a power source but my doityourself is too much anarchic (thx Fritz http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif) to risk my motherboard to go boom. Sitting there at my pc I was suddenly enlighted - by "num lock" keyboard LED http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif. So my FD ver 2.1 is powered by keyboard.
I opened it, cut off num-lock led, attached cables, took them outside of keyboard through extra hole and voilla http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif
2.0 had no switch but num lock key but its VERY annoying when you try typing numbers with freelook on http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif So 2.1 has extra switch glued to keyboard.

Note: it doesnt take soldering! All electrical connections I made with advanced, hi-tec, environment friendly, energy efficient tie-these-cables TM technology http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

For the general idea, my FD 1.1:

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/8488/fd114rt.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


It takes a while to get used to FR. But after that while (without even one puke in my case http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif seriously: I dont think there is risk of that) its just great. And besides webcam practically free.

FR has a bug: after you move your head from looking aside to straight forwards it recenters not in the center of view, so you use "reset" key alot. Freelook's reset key should be the same as games look forward key.

Configuration: here is my configuration file, you put it in your .../freelook/profiles, :

http://users.cjb.net/kocur/il2fbae.fl


Ehm..seems you got to cut&paste above to your browser to d-load the file.