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CrazyOWl
10-20-2008, 02:22 PM
Jut whant to know your opinion on CH Products Fighterstick and CH Products Pro Throttle USB, I am thinking in getting these 2 and cant diside. I use to have and still using the x45 with Throttle put the tapes and the plastic is not holding anymore. Smash

Also the cougar one, I have hear some bad reports on it and you have to spend a lot of money later. but they look the best Roll Eyes

Tnhkz for any feedback

Urufu_Shinjiro
10-20-2008, 02:54 PM
Get the CH, you won't regret it.

VMF-214_HaVoK
10-20-2008, 03:27 PM
I own the CH Fighterstick, CH Pro Throttle, and CH Pro Pedals. The best sim investment I have ever made. CH build quality, functionality, and customer support is second to none. Do yourself a favor and get the setup. As Shin mentioned...you will not regret it.

S!

TX-EcoDragon
10-20-2008, 03:32 PM
If you want the best for a decent price, you probably have to build your own. If you want to buy one that will last, the CH isn't a bad idea, but the X52 pro shouldn't be ruled out either.

The Cougar with the NXT mod is pretty nice for a desktop joystick, but still nothing like a real stick in that it is short throw. . .and it's gonna cost 750 or so bucks after the mods are done. . .eek. Even after that, you still have to plan on needing some spare parts.

The CH stuff is fine out of the box if you can stand the worlds lightest, springiest stick forces and transition flats (I hate the feel of that stick - it has none) but it is precise despite the transition flats since the springs are so light you can hardly feel them, and once you get used to it you won't notice it anymore. Also, it should last longer than the Saitek stuff or Cougar. . .it's an investment that you won't regret if you get used to the stick and feel of it. Despite cursing its feel every time I use it, it's reliable, precise, and does what you bought it for.

The Saitek X52 Pro has improved action and feel vs the X45 you use, while still being similar in that the only transition flat is at the absolute center of all axes. . .this is better for precision and realism than the X and y transition flats that the CH and Cougar have. The rotary knobs are harder to use (especially on the Pro) and the button and hat switch layout makes less sense than the x45 did. . .but otherwise this is a step up. Reliability still won't reach the CH level though - so in the long run, you might be buying another one of these to replace your broken one. . .the CH might need some work, but it will be minimal. I've had 5 X-45s, and from their parts I manage to keep one running - but man, what a PITA that has been over the years. Many of the Saitek's I had would have buttons fail right away - it seems they have gotten a little better about that recently.

From a realism of feel perspective the Saitek with it's progressive springs and lack of transition flats when out of the center position is still better than the CH, but not by much - and most people don't care about this since they have nothing to compare it to.

I've owned or used all of the current HOTAS sticks, and I think the only way I'll be happy is to build my own. . .longer travel, logical button placement, real stick forces and no transition flats. . .then I can be happy.

Stingray333
10-20-2008, 04:03 PM
Originally posted by TX-EcoDragon:
The Saitek X52 Pro has improved action and feel vs the X45 you use, while still being similar in that the only transition flat is at the absolute center of all axes. . .this is better for precision and realism than the X and y transition flats that the CH and Cougar have. The rotary knobs are harder to use (especially on the Pro) and the button and hat switch layout makes less sense than the x45 did. . .but otherwise this is a step up. Reliability still won't reach the CH level though - so in the long run, you might be buying another one of these to replace your broken one. . .the CH might need some work, but it will be minimal. I've had 5 X-45s, and from their parts I manage to keep one running - but man, what a PITA that has been over the years. Many of the Saitek's I had would have buttons fail right away - it seems they have gotten a little better about that recently.


I have the X-52 pro, I love it. Throttle is awesome, tons of controls on the stick, and for me at least, the stick feels great. There is a tiny bit of "play" in the stick, but, I have locked out the z-axis and use the rudder pedals now, so it is a non-issue. As for longevity, I've been playing nearly daily for a few months and there is zero sign of fatigue,

Stingray

VMF-214_HaVoK
10-20-2008, 05:31 PM
I had an X-52 and it broke inside a year. My bud Pappy has owned two or three X-52s and they all broke. I know a few others with issues as well. I personally found Siatek tech support to be horrible. I do not doubt you X-52 owners are happy but the guy has a right know about any issues others have encountered.

S!

na85
10-20-2008, 05:34 PM
I don't own their joysticks (might get one if my current one breaks) but I own the CH pro pedals and they're flippin' awesome. I assume their sticks and throttles are of similar quality, and these pedals are bulletproof.

CrazyOWl
10-20-2008, 09:01 PM
wao tnhkz everyone for the respond. TX-EcoDragon tnhkx for the spesific info man. Ill defently think iam getting the CH, my x45 its driving me crazy and think I am wasting my time flying with it. I also have the ch peddals and I love them so relaible.

One more question. Those it flip when you move the joystick hard all the way to one side or its stay still? and if the throttle can be connected to the joystick and the joystick to the pc?

Tnhkz http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

redhornet07
10-20-2008, 10:02 PM
Originally posted by CrazyOWl:
wao tnhkz everyone for the respond. TX-EcoDragon tnhkx for the spesific info man. Ill defently think iam getting the CH, my x45 its driving me crazy and think I am wasting my time flying with it. I also have the ch peddals and I love them so relaible.

One more question. Those it flip when you move the joystick hard all the way to one side or its stay still? and if the throttle can be connected to the joystick and the joystick to the pc?

Tnhkz http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

Well I have the CH Fighterstick and I absolutely love it. Nice large heavy base with lots of hats and buttons that I can program any way I want with the CH Control Manager software that comes with the stick. When I've moved the stick around vigorously the base hasn't moved or flipped. There are no USB ports on the Fighterstick itself so I am pretty sure that the throttle and pedals all connect directly to the computer using USB ports.

Support is excellent(they have dedicated forums with tutorials that can get you up and running in no time).

I highly recommend CH Products stuff.

jayhall0315
10-20-2008, 10:50 PM
The Fighterstick, Pro Throttle and Pro Pedals all connect directly to the computer thru USB 2.0. They do not connect to one another before connecting to the computer, as with the Saitek stuff.

I have the Fighterstick, Pro Throttle and Pro Pedals and can confirm what these other guys are saying. CH stuff can be summed up with two words: precise and tough. I recently wrote a guide for setting up major joysticks with IL2 which you can read here:

http://files.filefront.com/Newbies+Joystick+Revisedpdf/...73755;/fileinfo.html (http://files.filefront.com/Newbies+Joystick+Revisedpdf/;11873755;/fileinfo.html)

and during that time I had a chance to use both the Saitek X52 and the CH stuff side by side. The X52 has a more ergonomic throttle than the CH Pro Throttle and its best feature is the ability to have elevator trim on a slider. On the other hand, the CH Pro Throttle allows more functions to be used and is tougher. When it comes to the joysticks, the Saitek just cant compare. It is a twist stick and play developed in mine fairly quickly (locking it to only the x-y plane decreased this a bit but did not eliminate it) and it cannot compare to the smooth springs and extreme precision of the Fighterstick. Eco-dragon above mentioned his dislike of the Fighterstick springs but the upside of the smooth and light springs is that a three hour Hyperlobby excursion feels fun instead of being an arm wrestling match (as with the Thrustmaster Cougar). Believe me when I say you will come to appreciate the beautiful "feel' of the Fighterstick. You cannot duplicate this in any off the shelf HOTAS currently being sold (You can get this feel in the Cougar but only if you have one of two $500 plus mods done to the stick).

Jay

P.FunkAdelic
10-20-2008, 11:04 PM
What I've read is that the Saitek HOTAS throttle feels better because it rolls on a curved axis like a real throttle while the CH one is just like a slider, on a flat axis.

I own an X-52. I can see how the stick isn't that fantastic. It has nice features. Lots of buttons, nice two stage trigger, and a nice feel, but I also feel the quality. I have a slight deadzone in the X axis. Its manageable. But I'm already planning to get a CH fighterstick. But I know I'm keeping my X-52 throttle because its brilliant.

I'll get a new one just for that throttle if I have to.

Hookecho
10-21-2008, 02:04 PM
My Pro peddles, Fighterstick USB, and Pro Throttle have been going strong for almost 6 years now, and the Throttle Quadrant is a must for other flight sims that have multi engines, lke FSx....god I love flying A2A's B17 and B24....

VMF-214_HaVoK
10-21-2008, 05:21 PM
What I've read is that the Saitek HOTAS throttle feels better because it rolls on a curved axis like a real throttle while the CH one is just like a slider, on a flat axis.

Read this from a person who has owned both. CH "feels" much better in every way compared to the X-52.

S!

Billy_DeLyon
10-21-2008, 06:35 PM
I'm in the same situation as this guy, I have an X45 and am considering going to a CH setup.

One thing I really like about the X45 is the dials on the throttle, which I have mapped to rudder and elevator trim. It's very intuitive that way, especially the elevator trim which works just like a miniature version of a real trim wheel. I use it constantly.

My question for you CH owners is, how do you manage trim with that setup? It looks like there aren't any wheels on the throttle.

TX-EcoDragon
10-21-2008, 06:39 PM
One thing you can do is get the CH stick, and keep using your X-45 throttle.

That said, there is a mod out there for the CH throttle to add some rotaries to it.

Thunderbolt purchased that. . .I think it's called the FrankenPotato or something equally wierd.



Yes, the CH throttle is a slider, but that's pretty transparent to most users. . .and of course the jet type quadrants aren't all that realistic in many planes either. . .if it's a realistic WWII type throttle quadrant you want, then you should be looking at these types:

http://www.amazon.com/Saitek-Three-Throttle-Quadrant-PZ...id=1224635518&sr=8-3 (http://www.amazon.com/Saitek-Three-Throttle-Quadrant-PZ45/dp/B000TCEU4Q/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1224635518&sr=8-3)

http://www.amazon.com/CH-Products-Throttle-Quadrant-300...id=1224636167&sr=1-1 (http://www.amazon.com/CH-Products-Throttle-Quadrant-300-133/dp/B0002A59Z4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1224636167&sr=1-1)


[edit] yep here is the Franken Potato: http://www.ch-hangar.com/index.php?option=com_content&t...view&id=18&Itemid=29 (http://www.ch-hangar.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=18&Itemid=29)

Chris0382
10-21-2008, 07:15 PM
You can program the hats as analog axis that will be noticed by IL-2 as an analog axis so you can assign it to a slider in the Controls Setup.

The X-52 throttle is nice also and is a great combo with a CH Fighter Stick; you can put the X-52 JS in the closet or use it as a spare button bay for the engine management commands.

TgD Thunderbolt56
10-22-2008, 08:26 PM
Originally posted by TX-EcoDragon:
One thing you can do is get the CH stick, and keep using your X-45 throttle.

That said, there is a mod out there for the CH throttle to add some rotaries to it.

Thunderbolt purchased that. . .I think it's called the FrankenPotato or something equally wierd.



Yes, the CH throttle is a slider, but that's pretty transparent to most users. . .and of course the jet type quadrants aren't all that realistic in many planes either. . .if it's a realistic WWII type throttle quadrant you want, then you should be looking at these types:

http://www.amazon.com/Saitek-Three-Throttle-Quadrant-PZ...id=1224635518&sr=8-3 (http://www.amazon.com/Saitek-Three-Throttle-Quadrant-PZ45/dp/B000TCEU4Q/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1224635518&sr=8-3)

http://www.amazon.com/CH-Products-Throttle-Quadrant-300...id=1224636167&sr=1-1 (http://www.amazon.com/CH-Products-Throttle-Quadrant-300-133/dp/B0002A59Z4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1224636167&sr=1-1)


[edit] yep here is the Franken Potato: http://www.ch-hangar.com/index.php?option=com_content&t...view&id=18&Itemid=29 (http://www.ch-hangar.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=18&Itemid=29)


Yup, it's still around and I think Ken would still make them if asked. Here's a pic of one he did:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v687/Thunderbolt56/100_0109.jpg

Mine was made out of a custom CH Lefty HOTAS ( http://www.ch-hangar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3313 ) but the concept is the same regardless...and they are FANTASTIC controllers as a result. CH reliability, precision and added functionality of the FP.

BTW, the FP mod doesn't only add rotaries. It also adds the six momentary switches found on the CH Throttle Quadrant. Top, Top, Top.

Billy_DeLyon
10-22-2008, 09:17 PM
Cool looking mod. I wonder if CH will take the hint.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

For now I think I'll just get the joystick and see how it works to keep using the X45 throttle, which is working fine. It's just the joystick has developed a fair bit of play in the middle, and spikes when holding a turn.. I'll just have to find somewhere to stash it under the desk, I'm a little short of space. Unfortunately you can't just plug in the X45 throttle, it has to go thru the stick.

Thx for replies!

TX-EcoDragon
10-23-2008, 03:37 AM
Hack it apart, put a faceplate on it, and use the buttons to make a switch panel. . .go to the stick modders thread for inspiration on that one, or just use it as is for a button bay (just be sure to clear the axes so there aren't multiple devices linked to one axis).

Beirut
10-23-2008, 04:03 AM
Although the CH and Saitek HOTAS setups are mighty sweet, they don't have FFB.

I use a MS FFB2 and a Saitek Cyborg Evo for a throttle. If you can't find an MS FFB2, use the Saitek FFB Cyborg stick and a standard Cyborg as your thottle. Not only will you get FFB and save money, you'll get a very comfortable and functional HOTAS setup with enough buttons and versatility to handle everything you'll want or need.

Stafroty
10-23-2008, 11:38 AM
both fighterstick and pro throttle as USB versions are Great products, but for rudder pedals i recommend Simped vario/pro USB pedals.

http://www.dhs-electronic.de/homeeng.htm

i bought my pedals with gameport connector many years ago, and they still are running sweetly, till i bought windows vista (64bit), which isnt supporting gameport anymore. 32bit version has support with little work.

Most of the game controllers uses potentiometers, which simpeds dont have, they use Hall magnetic sencor, which lasts long long time, because there is no mechanical connection in it, just magnetic field http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

and about force feedback sticks, dont go in them, because it ruins your aim when ur in hard turn holding a ***** in your hand. those are for perverts only http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gifat least i dont know any top level pilot so far who is flying with *****s.

TX-EcoDragon
10-23-2008, 01:51 PM
Not to mention that most FFB is even less realistic than non-ffb joysticks. . .the stick itself doesn't really communicate most of the things that FFB joysticks do, other than increasing or decreasing control pressures at different speeds.

Oleg's slipstream noise, buffetting and headshake let you know when you are at the limit - and in a more realistic way. Though not all sims have these features (and the sound mods often "break" them as well).

(ignoring tailslides anyway, and FFB can't realistically model those anyway)