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EmperorxZurg
08-11-2009, 12:29 PM
does anyone know what caliber bullets Ezio will use in his hidden gun? it's a very minor detail but it popped into my head, I think he might use a .40 caliber bullet, anyone have any ideas?

AetosEagle
08-11-2009, 12:34 PM
I don't think they had cailbers back then, a screenshot of the teaser trailer shows that it's a spherical bullet, dunno if that helps.

Fristi61
08-11-2009, 12:46 PM
.40 caliber bullets? Aren't those like, 20th century bullets?
They're more like the type of bullets Desmond would use if he ever had to.

Seeing as guns were barely even used by then, I don't think there would've been much of a 'standardized cartridge'.
I doubt he would be using anything more complicated then just a simple metal ball with an assassin logo painted on it.

RipYourSpineOut
08-11-2009, 12:47 PM
Weren't those things called musket balls?

Fristi61
08-11-2009, 12:48 PM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wi...eby_musket_balls.jpg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/06/Naseby_musket_balls.jpg)

that's a couple of matchlock musket balls

AetosEagle
08-11-2009, 12:49 PM
Originally posted by Fristi61:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wi...eby_musket_balls.jpg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/06/Naseby_musket_balls.jpg)

that's a couple of matchlock musket balls

That's exactly what it was, but it obviously was customised for Ezio etc etc back then.

Fristi61
08-11-2009, 12:52 PM
Maybe Da Vinci invented something clever.
Then again I don't think a simple musket ball would need much of an improvement in this case, the target would pretty much be dead either way.
Or maybe musket balls are just templar lies and Ezio DOES use .40 cal bullets. Who knows.

Sarcross
08-11-2009, 12:54 PM
Magic bullet conspiracy? O.o

EmperorxZurg
08-11-2009, 01:13 PM
sry, i was thinking of conventional weapons today, i dont know much about musket balls, do any effects come in to play, like humidity, atmospheric presure and such like with todays sniper bullets or does it just go straight?

caswallawn_2k7
08-11-2009, 01:32 PM
musket bullets rarly went straight and were generaly only effectiive at short range, that why bullets developed into the shape they are now, it also why a barrle with a screw on the inside can get higher range and accuracy as if the bullet spins it causes it to break through the air better.

Danvish
08-11-2009, 01:35 PM
Well, today's bullets are shaped in a special way, to allow it to penetrate through winds, and not damage it's speed while flying to target. Also, it is designed in a way that will hurt the target, but won't kill it. (at least that's 5.56 we use here and are used by Nato forces). I think a round-shaped bullet is actually more deadly since it's probably bigger than 5.56...

Slartibartfast7
08-11-2009, 01:35 PM
Originally posted by caswallawn_2k7:
musket bullets rarly went straight and were generaly only effectiive at short range,

Which makes you wonder how far their effective range will be. Anyone think they might know?

EmperorxZurg
08-11-2009, 01:58 PM
ya, if that's true then how far would the range be to effectively take out someone? 25 ft or something?

SharkMRX
08-11-2009, 02:27 PM
ya, if that's true then how far would the range be to effectively take out someone? 25 ft or something?

Think so the distance the guy was standing from ezio in the trailer

An_Idea
08-11-2009, 03:45 PM
musket balls r nasty, especially when their really big. they can blow off arms if their big enough http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

caswallawn_2k7
08-11-2009, 03:56 PM
Originally posted by An_Idea:
musket balls r nasty, especially when their really big. they can blow off arms if their big enough http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif
they can also flatten out and get bigger on impact causing the larger internal injury.

thekyle0
08-11-2009, 04:01 PM
A lot of the time they crack too and make it so several shards pierce the inside of the body.

EmperorxZurg
08-11-2009, 04:16 PM
like a shotgun shell?

Fristi61
08-11-2009, 05:14 PM
muskets at this time weren't much better than crossbows, in this very early stage of muskets maybe even worse. The only reason they were probably even used in this time was because it would affect enemy morale in battle iirc.

Ezio would historically speaking probably be more effective with a 'hidden crossbow', but try hiding a crossbow in a bracer on your wrist.

*Pictures altair with a huge crossbow attached to his wrist, to show off against Ezio's hidden gun*

Yeah... Real stealthy....

obliviondoll
08-11-2009, 10:01 PM
More like a hollowpoint than a shotgun shell. They generally broke up on entry to the target, not when exiting the weapon. Buckshot starts to spread as it's leaving the barrel of the weapon, this wouldn't start spreading until it's in the target.

An_Idea
08-11-2009, 10:19 PM
like a shrapnel bullet..... or just a really crappy bullet that cant stand impact

Xanatos2007
08-12-2009, 12:38 AM
From looking at the trailer it looks like a 9mm projectile, although I think the barrel has rifling to improve stability and accuracy. A short barrel like that firing a sherical bullet probably wouldn't be able to achieve sufficient accuracy (the first pistols had an effective range of about 15m max) without rifling. Seems like something Da Vinci would've discovered in ACII.

DarkAutocon
08-12-2009, 04:34 AM
I was watching this programme about pistols and howthey evolved from matchlock to the standard pistol today and it said that when they first came out rich people bought them to show how wealthy they were, and even in duels against each other the guy who got shot rarely died.

Xanatos2007
08-12-2009, 04:51 AM
Hence my theory of Da Vinci tweaking it to be God's own anti-son-of-a-bi*** machine. (<Halo quote)

obliviondoll
08-12-2009, 06:19 AM
If it's not spherical, it's not firing straight.

Re-watch and re-pause the trailer video.

If it comes out straight from the gun, and doesn't deviate, the camera is looking at it on an angle, but there's no elongation of it to indicate a bullet shape.

thekyle0
08-12-2009, 08:59 AM
Originally posted by An_Idea:
like a shrapnel bullet..... or just a really crappy bullet that cant stand impact

Generally really crappy. If it hits bone then it will usually crack.

Edengoth
08-13-2009, 12:47 PM
Give us another chance, and we'll give you the lung-shreddingest musket balls on the market!

Danvish
08-13-2009, 02:13 PM
Originally posted by Xanatos2007:
From looking at the trailer it looks like a 9mm projectile, although I think the barrel has rifling to improve stability and accuracy. A short barrel like that firing a sherical bullet probably wouldn't be able to achieve sufficient accuracy (the first pistols had an effective range of about 15m max) without rifling. Seems like something Da Vinci would've discovered in ACII.

Well yeh, longer the barrel=better the accuracy.
(that's why US Army still prefers long M16 than the shoter M4).

Anyhow, Ezio would need to do a very very accurate shot for the bullet to actually kill. (heart or head only).
Thought it can leave an ugly scar when it gets it.

caswallawn_2k7
08-13-2009, 02:23 PM
the inside of the barrle also goes a long way to helping the aim and range, its why alot of the M1 abrams have lower range and accuracy as the majority of them have a smooth bore turret, compaird to things like the euro challenger 2 tanks with a rifled gun, how ever it is actualy possible for Ezio to have this tech as it was invented towards the end of the 15th centuary.

Xanatos2007
08-15-2009, 03:02 AM
Maybe Da Vinci would be clever enough to invent polygonal rifling to further increase accuracy. An upgrade, perhaps?

Danvish
08-15-2009, 12:50 PM
Originally posted by Xanatos2007:
Maybe Da Vinci would be clever enough to invent polygonal rifling to further increase accuracy. An upgrade, perhaps?

Probably... point is, I'm not sure what they are trying to achieve with the gun... a real weapon? a gadget?

caswallawn_2k7
08-15-2009, 01:02 PM
Originally posted by Xanatos2007:
Maybe Da Vinci would be clever enough to invent polygonal rifling to further increase accuracy. An upgrade, perhaps?
they could use rifling as it was inventted in the late 15th centuary by Jaspard Zoller in Vienna, meaning the invention fits the time and the location fits as it was invented just outside italy. it's just that it wasnt in common use till the 19th centuary it's not that they didnt have the option.

Danvish
08-15-2009, 01:05 PM
Originally posted by caswallawn_2k7:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xanatos2007:
Maybe Da Vinci would be clever enough to invent polygonal rifling to further increase accuracy. An upgrade, perhaps?
they could use rifling as it was inventted in the late 15th centuary by Jaspard Zoller in Vienna, meaning the invention fits the time and the location fits as it was invented just outside italy. it's just that it wasnt in common use till the 19th centuary it's not that they didnt have the option. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The barrel will still be too short for anything effective.

caswallawn_2k7
08-15-2009, 01:10 PM
Originally posted by Danvish:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by caswallawn_2k7:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xanatos2007:
Maybe Da Vinci would be clever enough to invent polygonal rifling to further increase accuracy. An upgrade, perhaps?
they could use rifling as it was inventted in the late 15th centuary by Jaspard Zoller in Vienna, meaning the invention fits the time and the location fits as it was invented just outside italy. it's just that it wasnt in common use till the 19th centuary it's not that they didnt have the option. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The barrel will still be too short for anything effective. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I've been saying that since all these posts started so pointing that is pointless as no1 here seems to care or actualy read when people tell them that.

Danvish
08-15-2009, 01:22 PM
I do read your posts mate, I was just enhacing what you're saying..

Xanatos2007
08-15-2009, 07:37 PM
Polygonal rifling is a form of rifling that increases accuracy and barrel life, since the grooves and lands don't scrape the bullet so much. Here's what I mean:
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/940/rifling.png
(Traditional rifling on the left, polygonal rifling on the right)
It causes less deformation of the bullet before it leaves the barrel (all 4-5 inches of it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif) giving the projectile better aerodynamics.

EmperorxZurg
08-16-2009, 08:07 PM
hey that 4-5 in. could save ur life Xanatos, that minor stuff could help u make it it just those last feet, because with the rifling it also increases the range, at least for paintball it does since I use a 14 in rifled barrel besides the fact it's 14 in in the rifling on makes it go over 400 ft per shot without fail

Danvish
08-17-2009, 10:25 AM
Well, when talking about dead-life situation, and when distance is that crucially, another 2-3 meters can make a total difference.

thekyle0
08-17-2009, 02:31 PM
I'm pretty sure they are just going to stretch the truth in the physics for the gun mechanics.

caswallawn_2k7
08-17-2009, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by Xanatos2007:
Polygonal rifling is a form of rifling that increases accuracy and barrel life, since the grooves and lands don't scrape the bullet so much. Here's what I mean:
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/940/rifling.png
(Traditional rifling on the left, polygonal rifling on the right)
It causes less deformation of the bullet before it leaves the barrel (all 4-5 inches of it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif) giving the projectile better aerodynamics.
the twist is still better the other just stopps the projectile bouncing on the sides of the barrle causing it too loose speed and accuracy, it's still technicaly a smooth bore. but even so the twist on a round bullet is that low that in the lenth of ezio's gun it would barly spin the bullet.