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Airmail109
05-07-2007, 05:08 PM
If given forward firing guns would have made a great early-mid war attack plane along the lines of the IL10?

Given a more powerful engine, I think so. Hell they could have stuck a griffon on it maybe. It could have been even more deadly than the Il2 with that turret and its wide angle of fire on the back, one of the squadrons that operated became quite deadly with the thing I hear. Despite being rather obsolete for its intended role. Shooting down 84 aircraft over dunkirk for the loss of 14 fighters.

BOB will be great if I can mod a Defiant into my dream ground attack plane for offline stuff, with 2 .50s + 2 .303s in the rear turret, a 1500-1600hp Merlin and a couple of 20mms in the front, some engine and fuel tank armour, and some bomb racks

WHalahhhh heheheh http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Dagnabit
05-07-2007, 05:23 PM
And would you like fries with that? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Seriously it sounds like a heck of a plane, those are serious kill ratios.
Regards
Dag

leitmotiv
05-07-2007, 05:43 PM
Er, the only problem will be that it will be so heavy it won't get off the ground. The RAF tried the optimum BP turret configuration on a gun-armed fighter when they planted one on a Beaufighter, and decided a clean Beau was far more dangerous.

Monty_Thrud
05-07-2007, 05:47 PM
Blo0dy stewdents...thats sum serious chit man... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

FPSOLKOR
05-07-2007, 06:24 PM
Originally posted by Aimail101:
If given forward firing guns would have made a great early-mid war attack plane along the lines of the IL10?

Given a more powerful engine, I think so. Hell they could have stuck a griffon on it maybe. It could have been even more deadly than the Il2 with that turret and its wide angle of fire on the back, one of the squadrons that operated became quite deadly with the thing I hear. Despite being rather obsolete for its intended role. Shooting down 84 aircraft over dunkirk for the loss of 14 fighters.

BOB will be great if I can mod a Defiant into my dream ground attack plane for offline stuff, with 2 .50s + 2 .303s in the rear turret, a 1500-1600hp Merlin and a couple of 20mms in the front, some engine and fuel tank armour, and some bomb racks

WHalahhhh heheheh http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Judging from your description if there would be an owen installed it would be a serious contender in a wedding race... But unluckily - IF IF IF. If Gramma had balls she would be Grandpa...

Airmail109
05-07-2007, 06:35 PM
Originally posted by FPSOLKOR:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Aimail101:
If given forward firing guns would have made a great early-mid war attack plane along the lines of the IL10?

Given a more powerful engine, I think so. Hell they could have stuck a griffon on it maybe. It could have been even more deadly than the Il2 with that turret and its wide angle of fire on the back, one of the squadrons that operated became quite deadly with the thing I hear. Despite being rather obsolete for its intended role. Shooting down 84 aircraft over dunkirk for the loss of 14 fighters.

BOB will be great if I can mod a Defiant into my dream ground attack plane for offline stuff, with 2 .50s + 2 .303s in the rear turret, a 1500-1600hp Merlin and a couple of 20mms in the front, some engine and fuel tank armour, and some bomb racks

WHalahhhh heheheh http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Judging from your description if there would be an owen installed it would be a serious contender in a wedding race... But unluckily - IF IF IF. If Gramma had balls she would be Grandpa... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Im confuddled

horseback
05-07-2007, 06:46 PM
On its very best days, the Defiant was only marginally effective as an early war night fighter. The quoted claims for Dunkirk strike me as the usual early war overclaiming with a shot of propaganda.

It disappeared from frontline service as quickly as it did for the same excellent reasons the Fairey Battle did; it was a bad concept, poorly executed.

cheers

horseback

Airmail109
05-07-2007, 07:01 PM
Well considering most other ground attack planes at the time were only doing 270mph with a flexible turret, I think it would have made a great Close Air Support aircraft. With some modifications. Increase the wingspan if needed, and plonk in a better engine and it may have been able to take the extra stuff needed for ground attack duties. However with that rear turret i dont think it would have needed anywhere near as much armor. Remember we are talking about an early to mid war aircraft. Would have been great for operations in Africa.

Yes it was useless as a fighter. No more useless than an Il2 as a fighter however.

LStarosta
05-07-2007, 07:03 PM
Originally posted by Aimail101:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FPSOLKOR:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Aimail101:
If given forward firing guns would have made a great early-mid war attack plane along the lines of the IL10?

Given a more powerful engine, I think so. Hell they could have stuck a griffon on it maybe. It could have been even more deadly than the Il2 with that turret and its wide angle of fire on the back, one of the squadrons that operated became quite deadly with the thing I hear. Despite being rather obsolete for its intended role. Shooting down 84 aircraft over dunkirk for the loss of 14 fighters.

BOB will be great if I can mod a Defiant into my dream ground attack plane for offline stuff, with 2 .50s + 2 .303s in the rear turret, a 1500-1600hp Merlin and a couple of 20mms in the front, some engine and fuel tank armour, and some bomb racks

WHalahhhh heheheh http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Judging from your description if there would be an owen installed it would be a serious contender in a wedding race... But unluckily - IF IF IF. If Gramma had balls she would be Grandpa... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Im confuddled </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

As a Russian, he's just jealous that it would pwn more than the Il-2.

FPSOLKOR
05-07-2007, 07:08 PM
Originally posted by LStarosta:

As a Russian, he's just jealous that it would pwn more than the Il-2.
Nah... After seing Lerche in FB I won't be surprized if I'll have to intercept Tu-160 in a Fokker - driplane in BOB...

LStarosta
05-07-2007, 07:22 PM
Originally posted by FPSOLKOR:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LStarosta:

As a Russian, he's just jealous that it would pwn more than the Il-2.
Nah... After seing Lerche in FB I won't be surprized if I'll have to intercept Tu-160 in a Fokker - driplane in BOB... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

erco415
05-07-2007, 07:33 PM
A related interesting thought: what if the turret and associated gear were removed and replaced with forward firing guns, would the Defiant have made an effective conventional fighter?

Airmail109
05-07-2007, 07:40 PM
Originally posted by erco415:
A related interesting thought: what if the turret and associated gear were removed and replaced with forward firing guns, would the Defiant have made an effective conventional fighter?

Apparently the single seat version with 12 .303s did 360mph

I mean what the hell were they whining about, not having enough planes in the battle of Britain. They could have just ripped out the turret, and it would have been a better fighter than the hurricane.

major_setback
05-07-2007, 07:48 PM
I think it looks good as a single seater, but I suppose all eyes at the time were on the Spitfire.

http://www.aeroflight.co.uk/types/uk/boulton_paul/defiant/defiant-bpa4.jpg

Airmail109
05-07-2007, 07:52 PM
Would make a good naval aircraft with that wide tracked gear.

MrBlueSky1960
05-09-2007, 03:05 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

What, like this do you mean...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v187/Secudus/Bristol15300.jpg

MrBlueSky1960
05-09-2007, 04:44 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v187/Secudus/AircraftImages01/D.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v187/Secudus/AircraftImages01/D-1.jpg

Rammjaeger
05-09-2007, 04:49 AM
What amount of armor did this type have?

Roblex
05-09-2007, 05:51 AM
Great story Mr Bluesky http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

My rememberance of the Defiant was that it was not much more than a Hurricane with a Bombers turret grafted on. It achieved some success when first introduced as the 109s thought it was a Hurricane and got a nasty shock when they attacked from the rear but they soon learned and the turret made it very heavy and cumbersome to fly so they started getting shot down and were taken off that role. They then had some success as night fighters where they could fly under the bombers and take their time shhoting at the vulnerable parts.

mynameisroland
05-09-2007, 06:30 AM
Ive thought of this in the past too, replace the Merlin with a Sabre, a Griffon or a Hercules. Add Duralium plating around the engine and cockpit sides, place the fuel tank behind armour, strengthen wings to allow for stores to be hung underneath, give pilot flat panelled armoured glass cockpit like Hs 129 or IL2, place radiator on top of the nose to reduce vulnerability from ground fire. Fit 4 x 20 mm cannon in wings aka Hurricane IIC.

If one was made with a Sabre, it would have enough power to haul its armour, turret and a small payload at a decent speed.

Bremspropeller
05-09-2007, 06:35 AM
Ive thought of this in the past too, replace the Merlin with a Sabre, a Griffon or a Hercules. Add Duralium plating around the engine and cockpit sides, place the fuel tank behind armour, strengthen wings to allow for stores to be hung underneath, give pilot flat panelled armoured glass cockpit like Hs 129 or IL2, place radiator on top of the nose to reduce vulnerability from ground fire. Fit 4 x 20 mm cannon in wings aka Hurricane IIC.


In short words: "NO - better design a completely new a/c!" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

mynameisroland
05-09-2007, 06:45 AM
Originally posted by Bremspropeller:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Ive thought of this in the past too, replace the Merlin with a Sabre, a Griffon or a Hercules. Add Duralium plating around the engine and cockpit sides, place the fuel tank behind armour, strengthen wings to allow for stores to be hung underneath, give pilot flat panelled armoured glass cockpit like Hs 129 or IL2, place radiator on top of the nose to reduce vulnerability from ground fire. Fit 4 x 20 mm cannon in wings aka Hurricane IIC.


In short words: "NO - better design a completely new a/c!" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Several British companies designed dedicated ground attack aircraft, but in a war its tough to introduce completely new designs.

Boulton Paul actually designed a ground attack aircraft based roughly around the Defiant, using the same wing and structure - the P.101

I suppose using your logic the Typhoon as a ground attack aircraft was a waste of time too ?