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View Full Version : WoW! Raven vs Pigeon. 109 vs Hurricane.



SeaFireLIV
09-09-2006, 06:48 AM
Saw something quite amazing this morning.

Was walking along and as I sometimes do, was marvelling on the cloud formations and colour hues of the sky (I`m an artist for heaven`s sake, we do that!)

Anyway, I saw 2 birds high up flying around each other. at first I was just going to ignore, but then I saw that the highest dird above the other was circling and the bird below was also circling. The bird above was black and large, but I couldn`t really tell what it was, i`m no expert on birds - Maybe a Raven? The bird below, again, hard to tell, it must`ve been a pigeon, it was greyish in colured, wings well outstretched - a Kestrel?.

Then I saw the bird above dive at the bird below. The Raven missed as the pigeon\kestrel (?) circled. the Raven flew back up, circled and dived again. The pigeon avoided.

This went on for about five minutes. The pigeon just kept circling, it made no attempt to fly away and the raven just kept trying it`s Boom and zoom attack. I was transfixed watching this - All I could think of was a 109 attacking a hapless Hurricane or I16. It was amazing.

But now the Raven was getting more and more accurate and a couple of times the bird below actually panic fluttered as the raven made a near hit. It seemed to me that this could not last much longer. the lower bird could not fly in circles for forever. The skies were empty, no one else to bother the attacker.

I could see why the victim bird wouldn`t run - the attacker would probably catch him, circling was his best bet and maybe the Raven would tire.

But to my chagrin their silent battle was moving away from me and I was going to be late for my karate lesson, so I had to leave. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

But wow! It was incredible how much it just looked like everything I`ve heard about B & Zing and read in books and even seen online, it felt as if nature had taken a leaf out of the Luftwaffe stratgey guide and for the pigeon, the effective avoidance guide!

But the truth is, it`s the Human who are the novices and nature knows all the tactics long before us!

HuninMunin
09-09-2006, 06:51 AM
Great post!

WWMaxGunz
09-09-2006, 06:55 AM
Be sure the Raven's tail feathers were undermodelled since he should have been able to
kill the pigeon on the first pass. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

msalama
09-09-2006, 07:05 AM
...and nature knows all the tactics long before us!

Definitely. I myself have had many a ciggie break at work watching swallows in their element, and it's just _amazing_ how well those little guys fly http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Nature, the greatest engineer of them all. S!

Viper2005_
09-09-2006, 07:21 AM
As a glider pilot, I spend a lot of time watching the sky and its inhabbitants.

Sometimes when I'm in a thermal the birds will fly with me.

Sometimes I formate on them - they always find the best lift. Yesterday the weather was excellent so I, along with other pilots from my club flew a 100 km triangle. At one point there were 3 gliders and 3 birds all sharing the same thermal. The birds don't seem to mind. Actually it's interesting to note that for the most part when flying in thermals the birds obey the same rules of the air as the gliders!

House Martins and Swallows will often decide to play with my glider in thermals, and on at least one occassion I have seen them loop around the wingtips. They can turn almost square corners (less than 10 ft radius) at very high speed - they must have an incredible g tolerance. They are also able to fly very accurately, and seem quite happy to fly past my glider flying in the opposite direction at high speed with miss distances of less than a foot.

I wish I could fly like that!

Sometimes we see birds of prey doing their thing, and as you say, B&Z is the order of the day for most of them. They know more about flying than we do and are excellent teachers by example.

flaysepulcrast
09-09-2006, 08:10 AM
Nice post, at least until this:


Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
But to my chagrin their silent battle was moving away from me and I was going to be late for my karate lesson, so I had to leave. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

STUPID KARATE! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

Flying_Nutcase
09-09-2006, 08:31 AM
Awesome. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Haigotron
09-09-2006, 08:51 AM
awesome story, pethaps these laws of nature are imbedded deep within our instincts/subconcious, and we imitate nature w/o knowing?

general_kalle
09-09-2006, 08:58 AM
long ago(half a year i think) i saw something

20-40 small birds. dont know which but it was smaller than a pigeon. was flying in close formation then suddenly they turn sharp-left
up, down, stright, up, stright, up, down, round, up left...Etc. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif they must get confused http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

amazing how they kinda share thought about which way to go... if just one of them flew another way there would be hugh collision but none of them did. they just kept flying up down and in cirles. as by one motion.

it is incredible but again the nature is the true ace http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

R_Target
09-09-2006, 09:04 AM
Excellent story. You ought to see the Red-Tailed Hawks around here hitting ground targets.

slappedsilly
09-09-2006, 09:54 AM
Birds are amazing animals. We just recently put out a hummingbird feeder. They provide much entertainment in return. Talk about flying, these little guys are unbelievable. I was flying in my ultralight one day at about 400 ft (high for a little bird) I looked over to my left and not 10 ft away was a little bird, his little flaps where down and he was descending with me while looking at me. I watched him and laughed, then suddenly he zipped across in front of me about 4 ft from my chest, and went down to the trees as if, ok I'm done with you.
My plane is a parachute plane, very open and they are all pushers and VERY SLOW! I had one fly between me and my chute just yesterday. He must have seen the rigging at the last second because he tucked his wings in tight and went right through them. That one kinda scared me!

mortoma1958
09-09-2006, 10:05 AM
I'm very knowledgeable about birds, especially raptors. Sounds to me like the second bird was not a pigeon, but maybe it was a Kestrel as you guessed. Or a Merlin??

Ravens and Crows do not usually attack Pigeons, they pay them no mind because they are not enemies nor do they compete for the same foods. But Crows and Ravens absolutely hate Hawks, Falcons and Owls. They triple hate Owls!!! They are deadly enemies.

Very likely it was a diurnal bird of prey. Kestrels and Merlins are tiny though, so it might have been different kind. A Pigeon will make two Kestrels. I'd venture a guess but have no idea where you live and what types of raptors are indigenous where you live.

msalama
09-09-2006, 10:12 AM
they turn sharp-left up, down, stright, up, stright, up, down, round, up left...Etc. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif they must get confused http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

Kalle, those must've been swallows because that's the way they fly when they hunt. It's incredible to see the whole flock turning and burning in perfect formation!

Yep, those little guys know where it's at http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif We the humans are but clumsy imitators with our coarse machinery!

SeaFireLIV
09-09-2006, 10:18 AM
Originally posted by mortoma1958:
I'm very knowledgeable about birds, especially raptors. Sounds to me like the second bird was not a pigeon, but maybe it was a Kestrel as you guessed. Or a Merlin??

Ravens and Crows do not usually attack Pigeons, they pay them no mind because they are not enemies nor do they compete for the same foods. But Crows and Ravens absolutely hate Hawks, Falcons and Owls. They triple hate Owls!!! They are deadly enemies.

Very likely it was a diurnal bird of prey. Kestrels and Merlins are tiny though, so it might have been different kind. A Pigeon will make two Kestrels. I'd venture a guess but have no idea where you live and what types of raptors are indigenous where you live.


Very interesting, Mortoma. Yes, the second bird was confusing me a bit, becaused it had outsretched wings that looked like a bird-of-prey and something didn`t click with it being a pigeon. But I couldn`t understand why this bird-of-prey just kept defensively circling. Could it not fight back? Or run?

The black bird which I`m sure was a Raven no doubt was determined to kill it and had 2 close possible hits ( I saw the other bird lose its circling flight in panic momentarily).

Location: Leicester in the city itself, directly over the University campus. Perhaps this will help on bird identification?

Most people must have thought I was crazy cos I was the only one staring up and to most people they probably saw very little. Made my day watching it.

I wonder what the result was?

sudoku1941
09-09-2006, 10:43 AM
What, the pigeon never "stood on its beak" and raked the raven with a steady, controlled burst of 20mm?

Oleg, we demand an explanation for this!!!

FatBoyHK
09-09-2006, 11:05 AM
I saw a very short, yet very spectecular dogfight between 3 hawks last month.

I was sitting in a boardroom with a very good outlook, on 30th Floor. The meeting was kinda boring, so I looked outside for some relaxation.

To my surpirse, I saw 2 hawks engaged in a knifefight! Just 100 meters away and at the same altitude of me. They were actually trying to hit each other while flying a barrel roll!

Since they are BIG bird (wing span about 1.5 meter) their action was not too fast so I could see how they twist and turn very clearly. I could tell you it looked just like what we experienced in this game!!!

And This not the end of the story. There are several other hawk flying in the area. I saw one of them hovering just above these two, with about 200 feets of altitdue advantage. Suddenly, it "retracted" its wings and dived straight down to them like a brick!!! By the time in reached them (in only 2 seconds) it is extremely fast and seem it will score a direct hit on one of the dogfighting hawk, who were seem to be too busy to aware of the danger.

But just before the inevitable hit, both of them barrel rolled to the opposite direction and skillfully avioded the BnZer. It didn't slow down, instead it zoomed away, which the other two tried to catch up but failed.

WOW, What a exciting show, but I couldn't look for more as I need to go back to the meeting....

flaysepulcrast
09-09-2006, 11:36 AM
http://www.terra.es/personal7/c0ns0l3c0wb0y/Johnathan_Livingston_Seagull.jpg

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Viper2005_
09-09-2006, 11:43 AM
Wonderful book! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Haigotron
09-09-2006, 11:50 AM
maybe they should change the name from dogfighting to hawkfighting...

i have 24 budgies in my house (started with just two http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ) and now theyre an army, although they do not fly around much (we do have a huuuuuuuge cage for them)i love watching them socially interact, you can clearly see the little clicks and groups....amazing http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

SeaFireLIV
09-09-2006, 12:11 PM
Originally posted by Viper2005_:
Wonderful book! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I read that book a long time ago at school. The image of the book is very clear. I can`t actually remember the story now, but it had some effect that I can sense.

carguy_
09-09-2006, 12:38 PM
Uuuuh... the initial post is exactly of the same phenomenon posted by someone else here about a year ago.Almost as if you copied and pasted.

SeaFireLIV
09-09-2006, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by carguy_:
Uuuuh... the initial post is exactly of the same phenomenon posted by someone else here about a year ago.Almost as if you copied and pasted.

Interesting. Obviously others must`ve seen the same and maybe someone did post... a year ago. Just like the numerous other similar posts I see after 3 years which seem like carbon copy of other posts made years ago but are not. It`s a big world, people from all over post. It`s ineveitable that similar posts will crop up...

Or maybe... maybe in some twisted Raaiid fashion I woke with nothing to do and thought, "I know, I need attention and will think of this most original idea to gain praise and adoration. I can also use it as an excuse to pretend I do karate and impress the heck out of everyone!"


Yea...
#

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gif

flaysepulcrast
09-09-2006, 02:21 PM
Huh, can you post a link of that one year ago thread. I would like you to show it so we can start here a flame war.

Come on, guys! Shout with me!

FLAME WAR! FLAME WAR!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

LStarosta
09-09-2006, 02:26 PM
Originally posted by carguy_:
Uuuuh... the initial post is exactly of the same phenomenon posted by someone else here about a year ago.Almost as if you copied and pasted.

Well that cooincides perfectly, because there is one special day of the year where pigeons and ravens fight to the death to commemorate the passing of summer.

FritzGryphon
09-09-2006, 02:27 PM
That almost sounds like a crow and a hawk. Crows like to attack (harass) hawks all the time, who usually ignore them and circle.

Raven and pigeon doesn't seem likely, as the pigeon is higher T/W and lower wingloading; it could escape easily.

biggs222
09-09-2006, 02:29 PM
Originally posted by LStarosta:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by carguy_:
Uuuuh... the initial post is exactly of the same phenomenon posted by someone else here about a year ago.Almost as if you copied and pasted.

Well that cooincides perfectly, because there is one special day of the year where pigeons and ravens fight to the death to commemorate the passing of summer. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

also those were the very same two birds that were reported last year. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

carguy_
09-09-2006, 02:41 PM
Ah now I remember ,the bird types were different but the describing was very similar.I think Taylortony posted that.

Friendly_flyer
09-09-2006, 04:46 PM
Originally posted by mortoma1958:
But Crows and Ravens absolutely hate Hawks, Falcons and Owls. They triple hate Owls!!! They are deadly enemies.

I think Mortoma is right, generalists like ravens sometimes slug it out with the specialists like hawks. Several years ago on a ski trip in the mountains, I saw what I'm very certain was a peregrine falcon battle two ravens. I believe the falcon had killed a bird or something, the ravens wanted it. The tree of them did some amazing flying that never went above two meters. A snowstorm stopped me from seeing the conclusion, but I think the ravens had the upper hand (or rather beaks).