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Asas_Portuga1
04-01-2008, 07:19 AM
Hi guys,

For M_Gunz - I'm still trying to build the ruder , a bit demanding for my skils, but I'll try my best. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

In this post, however, I need from u guys, help in a totally different issue. I'm playing a Mission (Campaign), and I have a really tuff time understanding/follow the IA aircrafts, because of the NAVIGATION. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif
I never know where to turn in the waypoints, I do not understand the NAVIGATION Language, I mean, when they say: "Vector 090", for example where do i turn, left/rigth or down/up, i just don't know. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif Other thing is: in the cockpit, where do we see the NAV Points? ( I don't know if this is the correct way to say ).
Can anyone explain me how Navigation works?? Or does someone, in your Squads, have same NAV Basic Training, that can provide to a poor Noob??? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Thanks a lot http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif


Cheers.

ASAS

Xiolablu3
04-01-2008, 07:58 AM
If you have Speedbar switched on in the difficulty settings (I recommend you do), then in the bottom left hand corner of the screen is a 360 degree number (0-360), when it says 'vector 090' Turn until this number is at 90.


Its all about a 360 degree circle/compass. '000' is North, 090 is East, 180 is South, 270 is West.

If you are on full real with no speedbar (most servers have speedbar on) then its harder. (speedbar is what we call the number in the bottom left of the screen showing speed/heading etc)

Better to turn speedbar on while you are learning, most people have it on anyway.

Or you could always press M for map if you have Map icons/map path on in the difficulty settings. Most servers have this switched on except the very full real ones like SPits vs 109's and Winds of War.

My recommendations :-

Int eh difficulty settings make sure 'No Map ICons', 'No Minimap PAth' and 'No Speedbar' are all switched OFF.

If you insist on playing with all these settings at their hardest, then its going to be much tougher. You wuill have to learn the aircraft instruments. I recommend you set them as I recommend above, at least until you have been playing for a few months.

Its so easy to get lost otherwise, even for an experienced player, and most servers have the settings i have listed above.

Asas_Portuga1
04-01-2008, 08:20 AM
Hi Xiolablu3

nice talking to again. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


"If you have Speedbar switched on in the difficulty settings (I recommend you do), then in the bottom left hand corner of the screen is a 360 degree number (0-360), when it says 'vector 090' Turn until this number is at 90.


Its all about a 360 degree circle."(QUOTE)

At last, i'm starting to understand Navigation. THANKS http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

And, it seems, so easy, that i feel a bit http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif ... LOL

I'll give it a try to nitgh and let u know tomorow.

C.

ASAS

funkster319
04-01-2008, 10:11 AM
Knowing which bearing you should follow is only part of the problem. If you have the map icon on it s not that difficult and you can always ask tower for bearings (vectors) to target or home base.

but if you dont have icons on then you need to learn "dead reckoning" - This means you need to follow/match landmarks (Rivers, Roads, Large Cities) etc on your map against your location to work out where you are. You then use a compass bearing to set your direction then look for expected landmarks as you travel along the bearing/vector and correct. Another more advanced element would be to time your legs(Point to Point) - this is done by working out the distance (each square equals 10km in IL2 i think) then calculating how long it will take you to travel there a t your current speed. Thats all before your take into account headwinds. Crosswinds etc etc Anyway Thats how they use to do it for real AFAIK.

Another simple tip is to study your briefing map whether in MP or SP and work out bearings to target, escape routes, and home bearings - Remember them or write them down so in the heat of battle you always know which way to run etc

The navigation part of flyin can be really good fun once you get into it. If you really want to learn navigation plus a whole lot more propely then I susggest you try the joint ops school for IL2. It's course are execellent and it's all free! Although It is hard work and needs dedication.

http://www.joint-ops.com


PS. I noticed your sig - There aint no HUD, or waypoints carrats in these crates, it's all done by hand http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Wild.Bill.Kelso
04-01-2008, 11:34 AM
I signed up for Joint Ops about a month and a half ago. My first class starts this Sunday at 2pm. Looking forward to seeing what I can get out of it.

blairgowrie
04-01-2008, 11:42 AM
Good luck Wild Bill. You will most certainly get lots out of it. BFS is tough but they won't let you fail as long as you don't quit. You will definitely be an expert in the 1940 Zero by the time you finish.

buzzsaw1939
04-01-2008, 11:50 AM
Asas... heres a pic of a compass rose that Crash_Moses posted a while back, print it out and use it for referance while learning nav. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa103/buzzsaw1939/CorsairCompassRose.gif


The outer numbers are you true heading, the inner ones are the reciprocal, (opposite)

ImMoreBetter
04-01-2008, 02:55 PM
I think this one fits Crash_Moses' style. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d113/rustymusket/sbdcompass.jpg

buzzsaw1939
04-01-2008, 08:14 PM
Yep!...your right, never saw that one before. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Lurch1962
04-01-2008, 08:32 PM
Asas,

To ensure that the presence of the plane in the picture doesn't cause confusion...

The plane has nothing to do with the compass rose shown above... it's simply an adornment, nothing else. Indeed, imagine the plane is not there at all.

buzzsaw1939
04-01-2008, 08:37 PM
I thought of that Lurch, but decided to see if he asked!.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

M_Gunz
04-01-2008, 09:27 PM
Originally posted by buzzsaw1939:
Asas... heres a pic of a compass rose that Crash_Moses posted a while back, print it out and use it for referance while learning nav. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa103/buzzsaw1939/CorsairCompassRose.gif


The outer numbers are you true heading, the inner ones are the reciprocal, (opposite)

Ummmm, sorry but North is zero degrees last time I looked. So how is the outer true?

buzzsaw1939
04-02-2008, 12:26 AM
You got me big time on that one Gunz!..I was on my first cup of coffee, and didn't even notice! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Sorry Asas, hope it didn't confuse you!

Asas_Portuga1
04-02-2008, 02:55 AM
Hi


Thanks als for your tips. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Funkters, "Join-OPs" is indeed a good option. But at the moment i don't have net. I'm changing the "router". So, when it's done i will give 'it a try on that.

Buzz: i canยดt see your compass rose, cause, i'm using the net at work, and this guys have a loty of security policies, so .... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

But Thanks.

And, about the North thing, no worries, i used a compass before. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. Thanks, anyways, Gunz.

For all : http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

ASAS

Skoshi Tiger
04-02-2008, 05:34 AM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by buzzsaw1939:
Asas... heres a pic of a compass rose that Crash_Moses posted a while back, print it out and use it for referance while learning nav. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa103/buzzsaw1939/CorsairCompassRose.gif


The outer numbers are you true heading, the inner ones are the reciprocal, (opposite)

Ummmm, sorry but North is zero degrees last time I looked. So how is the outer true? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I assume the outside numbers are a reciprocal bearing.

This is especially useful if your going in reverse! Or you notice a large formation of enemy fighter infront of you! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I think ts actually used if you using navigation aides and your tracking away from a beacon.

M_Gunz
04-02-2008, 06:49 AM
Originally posted by buzzsaw1939:
You got me big time on that one Gunz!..I was on my first cup of coffee, and didn't even notice! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Sorry Asas, hope it didn't confuse you!

I thought I must have had some POV or word thing backward but I hadta say just in case.
It's funny how many things we just do without explaining and then when we try to say........

But honest Asas, it doesn't hurt to ask anything once! We can get there, wherever it is.

Guys my big use of reciprocal headings is when I've finally found a grass airstrip (very hard
to see on my machine), I fly out along the landing strip (but out to one side) and check my
direction to within 5 or 10 degrees and then hold that going out while I try and figure the
way back heading before turning (rise up on the way out, turn tight while dropping or I will
come back off to the side and maybe miss approach line-up even using zoom to re-find the
thing cause I'm bat-blind to those grass strips!) to have a shot at finally landing.

IRL most of us would do better (as in survive unhurt) with a pro like Buzz there at the yoke!

Asas_Portuga1
04-02-2008, 07:33 AM
"quote:
I thought I must have had some POV or word thing backward but I hadta say just in case.
It's funny how many things we just do without explaining and then when we try to say........"


Not quite folow u on this one. sometimes my english is rather limited to understand completly your posts. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

"(quote)
But honest Asas, it doesn't hurt to ask anything once! We can get there, wherever it is."

Agree, M-Gunz. if u Remember my posts, i'm the one u allways Keeps annoying u guys, with all my doubts and questions. Hope this is all a misunderstanding, because I did not intended to be rude toward you or anybody else for that Mather .


Thanks M8.

ASAS

buzzsaw1939
04-02-2008, 11:14 AM
Some times we are all hard to understand Asas, but you are not annoying at all. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Sometimes I think your english is better than mine! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Gunz.... I told my wife, I couldn't believe nobody else caught that, she said, they probably thought it was April fool.

M_Gunz
04-02-2008, 12:12 PM
Originally posted by Asas_Portuga1:
"quote:
I thought I must have had some POV or word thing backward but I hadta say just in case.
It's funny how many things we just do without explaining and then when we try to say........"


Not quite folow u on this one. sometimes my english is rather limited to understand completly your posts. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

English is not always used as a precise language. I thought I didn't understand what he wrote
because it didn't make sense. Turns out that the inside numbers are the headings and the
outside numbers are the opposite. Now that I think of it, it's a bit silly since if I want
to see the opposite I just need to look at the degrees on the opposite side of the circle.
Of course the speedbar doesn't show a circle, just heading degrees. North is 0, East is 90,
South is 180, West is 270 and there's 360 total degrees as 0 to 359. The compass rose graphic
shows all that.
You can have some fun outside with a real compass, just keep it away from iron or steel like
your belt buckle may be or it'll point to that. I've used map and compass in the field to
find out where I was by sighting landmarks and tracing back while standing still. That's the
kind of navigation you may want to learn some day, it's a bit tougher in a moving plane but
if you're going west and you can ID some mountain, town or river fork off to your right then
you that would be north of you then find a place ahead and you know you're east of that and
if you can be quick about it then you can know about where you are on the map... if you don't
confuse landmarks that is but it's better than nothing!


"(quote)
But honest Asas, it doesn't hurt to ask anything once! We can get there, wherever it is."

Agree, M-Gunz. if u Remember my posts, i'm the one u allways Keeps annoying u guys, with all my doubts and questions. Hope this is all a misunderstanding, because I did not intended to be rude toward you or anybody else for that Mather .

You haven't been rude. You haven't come back and told us we're full of manure, etc, even when
some advice hasn't been perfect. You haven't been near impossible to deal with either. You
will learn and other new people will have a chance to pick up on this as well.

If you had been here especially back in the first years then you would have seen what rude and
annoying can be! This place was known on better forums as "The UBI Zoo". It might still be!

BTW, some time check out and get yourself a membership at SimHQ.com and maybe some others,
it's not like forums are exclusive and there's lots of info to pick up all over. SimHQ also
has well written and reviewed articles on all matters of all kinds of simulation games.

And language.... I once could stumble along with Francais, over 35 years ago. You are using
English very well and only get confused (it seems) where the use is loose. You do better than
a lot of English-only users, trust me!


Thanks M8.

ASAS

It's cool to run across new members like you and these others after the nasty kids we've had here!

MB_Avro_UK
04-02-2008, 05:14 PM
Hi all,

Dead Reckoning navigation in real life is far harder than in il2.

In il2, there is no wind. (There are storms but no wind). Wind is a curse for a real a life navigator who depends on Dead Reckoning.

In il2, you can fly a heading of say 090 degrees to your target or base and you will arrive overhead.

But in real life you have to offset your heading to allow for the 'expected' wind direction and strength. A triangle of velocities trigonometrical calculation is used.

But, wind strength and direction continually varies in flight. So, you have to employ an inflight method of updating these variables.

Sounds boring but that's the reality of real life Dead Reckoning.

Maybe this factor will be employed in SoW?

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

M_Gunz
04-02-2008, 08:09 PM
In Rowan's B-17 from IIRC 2000 you can do navigation or leave it to the AI.
It teaches how to use a bombsight to measure your drift.
It's more than a little involved when the goal is putting bombs on target.

I knew the man who worked with them to get that and much else right, he flew bombers in WWII
and was a regular member at the old Delphi FSF and then the Bombs-Away (B-17 II) forum.
I dunno if he's still alive, I haven't heard from him in a few years after as many with mostly
regular communication. I fear we've lost Major Worsley, his WWII picture is on the box art
and mine is autographed.

Asas_Portuga1
04-03-2008, 04:22 AM
Hi,

Thanks all for your replies.

Well, I am glad u guys told that. As far as the language concerns, I make an effort to make myself understood, and with help/patience from ALL OF U, I am learning a bit more, witch is good.

(Quote) "Some times we are all hard to understand Asas, but you are not annoying at all"

Buzzsaw – U're kind to me ...LOL Thanks

M_Gunz – (Quote)" In Rowan's B-17 from IIRC 2000 you can do navigation or leave it to the AI.
It teaches how to use a bombsight to measure your drift.
It's more than a little involved when the goal is putting bombs on target."

I search the web for "In Rowan's B-17 from IIRC", but got nothing, or did not have it right. Can u tell me the exact link to dl?


Cheers

M_Gunz
04-03-2008, 04:59 AM
I really doubt you could download it. I searched on B-17 II Rowan and there's matches but
mostly old stuff. Search on smaller word sets, btw.

Best I found is the Bombs-Away site dedicated to that game and still going.
Here's a link to the forum, you can join and ask there. (http://www.bombs-away.net/forums/)
Here it is on EBay for $10 (http://search.ebay.com/game-B-17_W0QQ_trksidZm37QQdfspZ32QQfromZR40QQsatitleZQ20 gameQ20BQ2d17QQssPageNameZRC0022?_trksid=p1638.m12 0)

It's not easy to play and is not strong on the flight model but rather operating a B-17.
It has no multiplayer mode which was the biggest killer.

You can fly escort or interceptor or bomber crew able to move from position to position within
the B-17. And the top jobs, Navigator and Bombardier are very difficult to become good at.

Asas_Portuga1
04-03-2008, 05:29 AM
Ok.

thanks. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Other thing, what time is it there now?? here it's 12.30 PM. i'm going to have lunch http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif., so i'll probably see your reply later.

C ya

ASAS

M_Gunz
04-03-2008, 05:47 AM
You are 8 hours ahead, I am on US Eastern Time, Greenwich minus 5 hours.
It is also colder here unless you are high in mountains, I think.
Currently it is 7:46 AM and temperature is 0 C with 11 kph wind.

Asas_Portuga1
04-03-2008, 07:29 AM
I'm back, as u can see http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif.

"(QUOTE)
You are 8 hours ahead, I am on US Eastern Time, Greenwich minus 5 hours.
It is also colder here unless you are high in mountains, I think.
Currently it is 7:46 AM and temperature is 0 C with 11 kph wind."

Well, good Morning !!

I Live in Lisbon, Capitol city of Portugal. Today are 30 C http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif . In the Summer we have 36/38 C ....U gotta visit Portugal .... LOL



Cheers M8

asas

blairgowrie
04-03-2008, 07:38 AM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
You are 8 hours ahead, I am on US Eastern Time, Greenwich minus 5 hours.
It is also colder here unless you are high in mountains, I think.
Currently it is 7:46 AM and temperature is 0 C with 11 kph wind.

Are you sure there is an 8 hour difference? I think he is only 4 hours ahead of you. He is GMT+1. You are GMT+5.

M_Gunz
04-03-2008, 02:00 PM
I went by the post time, his post saying 12:30 had post time about 4:30.
But then I look at my post saying 7:47 and the post time says 4:47 so yes more like 4 hours.

I am pretty sure that EST is GMT - 5 hours not + 5 hours.
The sun rises there 5 hours before here, 5 hours sooner, 6AM in GMT is 1AM here, 6 - 5 = 1.

blairgowrie
04-03-2008, 02:08 PM
I do a lot of hosting for the Euro guys and they are all 5 hours ahead of me. Portugal being further west is 4 hours difference from EDT. No doubt about it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif