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JadehawkII
01-02-2005, 10:08 PM
Hey all, I'm thinking of getting a new monitor and hear that the new LED thin flat screens are not good for playing these Il-2 games. Is this true? I notice the specs for a CRT and a flat panel LED screen are not the same as I wanted to compare the refresh rates between the two before I purchase anything. So anyone ouyt there can give me your input? Thanks all http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

regards,
Brandon

JadehawkII
01-02-2005, 10:08 PM
Hey all, I'm thinking of getting a new monitor and hear that the new LED thin flat screens are not good for playing these Il-2 games. Is this true? I notice the specs for a CRT and a flat panel LED screen are not the same as I wanted to compare the refresh rates between the two before I purchase anything. So anyone ouyt there can give me your input? Thanks all http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

regards,
Brandon

jrowland96
01-02-2005, 11:12 PM
I was worried about the same thing, and my GF got me a 17" LED for x-mas, and I have no problems at all. (MAG 17" T782 or something like that... cheap at Best Buy... like $300). The picture is really great, and haven't had any issues with games, etc.

Refresh rate doesn't really matter too much with LEDs, because they don't work the same, no flicker, etc. The default for most LEDs is 60hz and setting that higher doesn't make anything better or anything like that, so I just set it at 60 (which is what is optimum for that particular LED... check yours if you get one, and set it at what the spec sheet says).

Also, try and get a higher Contrast Ratio (like 400:1 or higher).

I forget what it's called exactly, but it's like the Display lag, or something. Try and get as low as you can (without breaking the bank). Mine is 16 ms, and other more expensive were "slower" (i.e. 25 ms). The lowere times prevent "ghosting" in games.

Hope that helps some...

John

Skarphol
01-03-2005, 06:08 AM
Hi!

I assume you guys are talking about LCD (Liquid Chrystal Display), not LED (Light Emitting Diode) displays.

I've had a Samsung 172T LCD-screen for a year now, and I'm really satisfied with it. I think that trouble with playing games on flatscreens are a thing of the past. The important things are as jrowland96 says the response time. On mine it is less than 25ms. The second most important factor is contrast. On the samsung it is 500:1 and it works well. The third is brightness. I don't think this has to much impact on gameplay unless you have sunlight directly onto your screen. On my monitor it is 250cd/m², and it seems good, thoug the screen looks a litle grey when the sun shines directly on it. Considering the space it saves on the desk, I think the LCD-monitors are very much worth the money spent.

Skarphol

Bearcat99
01-03-2005, 06:12 AM
Get something with a low respomse time ad high contrast ratio.. right now the best bang for the buck in the US is the Samsung 17N12 I think it is.. it is at Best Buy for $249 or $299 after rebates.. it has a 12ms reponse time and I think a 500:1 or 600:1 contrast ratio... which is pretty good. Basically it is all about desk space and how much you want to spend. I have a 19" Samsung CRT.. but I have a huge corner desk with lots of room in the center so space is no issue for me.. I got the monitor for $84 so....

The190Flyer
01-03-2005, 10:08 AM
LCD's are nice, they show more detial I think, but when objects move on LCD's they tend to get a little blurry, I know people will argue with me on this topic, but I'd rather have a CRT to play IL-2 on.

S! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

a.k.a. BIFF P-51 PILOT in ubi.com lobbies

GT182
01-03-2005, 10:20 AM
I prefer the LCDs over the CRTs any day. I just bought this one and love it.... http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=24-179-010&depa=1 I previously had a 17"[actually 16"] so the upgrade was extra nice.

The190Flyer, I disagree. There's nothing blurry at all flying IL2 on this monitor and details are excellent.

Contrast Ratio is 500:1 and Response Time is 25 ms, but I've had no problems. Cost has come down $10.00 too. The great thing is it comes with a DVi cable so you don't need to buy one. BTW, that's so you have digital instead of analog connection to your video card, which is better. Also it being 19" monitor is great too. I'd recommend the Hyundai L90D any day.

Udidtoo
01-03-2005, 10:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by The190Flyer:
LCD's are nice, they show more detial I think, but when objects move on LCD's they tend to get a little blurry, I know people will argue with me on this topic, but I'd rather have a CRT to play IL-2 on.

S! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

My main conern if I were in the market isn't visual appeal. I would spring for whatever I needed to pay to get top performance just as I have done for everything else I use with this great hobby/cursed affliction. If I was looking to replace the 19 inch Sony it would be for heat generation.

You will find that the LCD runs much cooler than the crt's. I play in a ssw facing room in Arizona. During the summer months I could bake bread by placing it just above my moniter.

a.k.a. BIFF P-51 PILOT in ubi.com lobbies <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

GT182
01-03-2005, 10:25 AM
Udidtoo, I agree on that... they are cooler, and sure take up less room. But it's harder to mount a Tracker on. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

FlatSpinMan
01-03-2005, 10:33 AM
For what it's worth I bought a BenQ17inch flat screen (FP731 in fact)about 6months ago and run Il2AEP+... at 1280x1024 or something like that on excellent or perfect settings and it doesn't ghost or blur as I feared it might. The picture is excellent, no flickering, ghosting, no jagged edges - I am completely happy with it. I'd definitely recommend them.

Maj_Death
01-03-2005, 10:44 AM
I prefer CRT, mainly for the cost of getting a decent one. CRT's are cheaper, generally have superior picture quality and have higher refresh rates. They also tend to be higher resolution. For example when my old CRT burned out a few months ago I looked into getting a LCD. I looked at the absolute best LCD's at Best Buy and compared them to the absolute cheapest CRT's there, the CRT's had image quality so superior it was just silly. I am sure there are some good LCD's out there but I recommend sticking with CRT's for games. If nothing else they cost 1/3 as much for the same capabilities. They do produce more heat and take up more space though. Deciding whether desk space is more important than money and image quality is up to you.

big_lads
01-03-2005, 10:52 AM
I recently bought an unbranded 17" TFT monitor with a 12ms refresh rate to replace my old Mitsubishi 17" CRT. Gotta say I'm very happy with it.

Prices of TFT's are dropping really quickly, if you are in the UK, you might want to try www.aria.co.uk (http://www.aria.co.uk) - very good prices, plus user cooments on each model, so you can see which ones are for gamers http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

BaldieJr
01-03-2005, 10:58 AM
You get what you pay for.

Get an LCD if you can afford it. The Samsung 712n has a response time of 12ms (72 hz at 1280x1024x32).

Owlsphone
01-03-2005, 11:52 AM
The Samsung 710N is the monitor to get right now if you play games and want an LCD. Not only does it have a 12ms response time, but it can be found for just over 300 bucks.

The one Baldie suggested is very good too. The days of LCDs being bad for gaming are coming to a close.

GT182
01-03-2005, 01:41 PM
Maj_Death, I beg to differ with you and others will agree.

I ran a CRT for 3 years. It cost more for power than a LCD, ran hotter and the image quality of a LCD is by far superior to that of a CRT. And there is absolutely no glare on my LCD.

TheGozr
01-03-2005, 01:45 PM
LCD are not for gaming low rerfresh rate that make some blurry effect while scanning around fast..

85 and 100,120 + HZ is the way to go.

Less than 85 is a NO GO make shure of this and no matter who say what..
also to say that LCD are better for graphic then CRT is wrong way wrong ..

But it is fantastick if you want to surf in the net or do a lots of reading they are sharp for those appz.

The new technologie are coming soon for lcd that will improve performance..

StellarRat
01-03-2005, 01:48 PM
I just got a Samsung 213t LCD (21") and it works fabulously for this game. The native resolution is 1600 X 1200. The images are way sharper and the colors are fantastic compared to my old 19" Samsung CRT. I have no ghosting or blurring of moving objects either. It almost looks like your flying in a movie or something. I highly recommend this monitor if you can afford it.

deltorro
01-03-2005, 01:48 PM
Aren't CRT's able to show a better resolution for alot less? Right now I have an ADVEU 21 inch flat screen LCD and the max res. I can go to is 1280*1024 ( which isn't supported by PF http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif )

I'm thinking about going back to CRT to get the higher resolutions......

TheGozr
01-03-2005, 01:52 PM
19" Samsung CRT Comonnnn!

I forgot ofcourse we are not talking about CRT for 199 300 400$ here.

21 $ flat panel price is outragous, just imagine what you can get on CRT for the $$

BaldieJr
01-03-2005, 01:58 PM
For those of you who continue to quote valid points from 5 years ago, its time to re-eval your stance on LCD's.

I have a very expensive CRT at work(21"), and a comparably priced LCD at home(17").

I've played PF on both and the lcd beats the CRT in all aspects.

PS- you don't need a 21" lcd because the contrast ratio, sharpness, and pixel accuracy gives you far great visibility than a conventional CRT. Please don't believe that magazine articles from 5 years ago are still valid.

TheGozr
01-03-2005, 02:01 PM
17" comonnn stop the nonsens...

LCD NOWAY period til next lcd generation

Tested them all at UBI and for Doom 3, Quake 3.

None can beat a CRT for the equivalent money..

I have 22"

Zatorski
01-03-2005, 03:00 PM
One word to the wise re: LCD monitors
----use the DVI cable---
Your video card is digital, the analog cable hooked up to a LCD makes the signal go:
digital-analog-digital

Bearcat99
01-03-2005, 04:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BaldieJr:
You get what you pay for.

Get an LCD if you can afford it. The Samsung 712n has a response time of 12ms (72 hz at 1280x1024x32). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL... thats the one I was talking about!! I think it is going for something like $299 or $249 at Best Buy with rebates...at least it was last week.

AdioKIP
01-03-2005, 05:38 PM
Ok time to add my 2 cents. LCD's are better if you get the proper one. Currently I run a dual monitor setup, I have the Samsung SyncMaster 712n that everyone is talking about. I brought it home, hooked it up to run dual monitor next to my crt and was blown away. The sharpness and brightness were incredible compared to my CRT. I actually had to turn the brightness on the LCD down to about 60 and the brightness on the CRT up to about 90 to get them to look descent side by side. The best way to get a feel for the difference is to open the same picture up on each monitor and look at the same picture side by side. As far as games. Half-Life 2, Doom 3 both completed from beginning to end without any type of ghosting or any other effects due to the monitor. For games its recommended a response time of 20ms or below, the Samsung runs at 12ms which is one of the best out right now. For the price the Samsung is the best way to go and like they said after rebates its $250 at bestbuy. My only complaint about this monitor is the fact that its an analog plug, not a digital. Also keep in mind that LCD's look best at there native resolution. Since the native resolution is higher then most crt's (1280x1024) you want to make sure you have a computer with hardware that can give you good performance at that high of a resolution.

If you dont mind me adding a question to your thread. My video card has a digital out but the monitor came with a regular analog cable, so i used the digital to analog converter I got with my video card and have both monitors plugged in using an analog connection. Is the cable the only thing stoppng me from using the digital signal or does the monitor have to be specifically for that type of signal?

AdioKIP
01-03-2005, 06:00 PM
I think I found my answer and the monitor is only analog. Still a good deal though. I plan on getting rid of my crt sooner or later and running 2 lcd's so i just have to find a black one that will look good next to my samsung and is digital....

Also for the record here are the specs on the samsung.

Type a-si TFT/TN
Size 17"
Pixel Pitch (mm) 0.264
Brightness 300 cd/m2
Contrast Ratio 600:1
Viewing Angle (H/V) 160/140
Response Time (ms) 12
Aspect Ratio 4:3
Interface Analog

p1ngu666
01-03-2005, 06:55 PM
i got a lcd from aria too, the 12ms one, its really rather good http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

id say get that over a crt, if u gonna use it lots...

tft is much sharper, brighter, and colours are better http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

i just gotta find fb's brightness/gamma setting, as it darkens, makes it hard to see in some cockpits, and night is TOTALY black, so i keep adustin brightness http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

a tft will take a while to grow on u, but its better really

BaldieJr
01-03-2005, 07:01 PM
A tip for owners of the 712n:

Don't use the auto-adjust. Go through the settings and adjust it manually, or, auto-adjust it and then go change the setting for "Sharpness".

For some reason the auto-adjust sets the sharpness to a non-sharp setting. You can tweak it to the point that you'll see video cable ghosting (thats friggen sharp!).

noshens
01-03-2005, 07:41 PM
I didnt' real all replies here but buy LCD display in which native resolution equals to the resolution you usually play your gamaes at.

Playing games at native resolution is a win.

VW-IceFire
01-03-2005, 10:08 PM
I don't have an LCD but I've played games on several now. The things as mentioned to look out for are contrast ratio and response time. Get 25ms or less on the response time and 400:1 or 500:1 on the contrast.

LCDs are plain better than CRTs for almost all things (except very highly tuned color matching). They have no flicker so no eye strain, reduced radiation and power requirements, and if its a good one setup properly also have (or can have) a sharper image.

TheGozr
01-04-2005, 12:04 PM
SO wrong if you are into gaming CRT if you are into video and design CRT.. PERIOD..

Getting older eyes getting tire, read news or forums, better sharpeness for the eyes on Fonts get a LCD.

StellarRat
01-04-2005, 01:17 PM
TheGozr, I'm telling you my game is better on an LCD. A couple of other people have said the same thing. Why do you insist this isn't true? Have you personally played FB on any of the LCDs mentioned in this thread? I'm telling you, the game looks awesome on my new LCD and I have no display issues and I've played it on several CRTs and my new LCD.

TheGozr
01-04-2005, 02:52 PM
I guess i have a higher standard..
It's not some issues or some problems they work great but slower that all.

Play Quake 3 or doom 3 in Professional league level and we do not use lcd period.. just good on shows, exibitions etc.. for place problems and easyer placements.. But LCD came from a long way and they are much better this days yes..
Can someone show me a better lcd with more than 85 hz? or something equivalent since lcd don't use the refresh rate the same..

I repeat again it's simple.. Not Great enough for fast Games http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

noshens
01-04-2005, 03:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TheGozr:

Can someone show me a better lcd with more than 85 hz?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LCD refresh rate!=CRT refresh rate

LCD screen doesn't refill the same way as CRT, they are totaly different technology, you can not compare their refresh rates.

TheGozr
01-04-2005, 03:08 PM
True..

-----



An optimum refresh rate is a highly-individualized setting. The best refresh rate for a particular user depends on the individual user's perceptions. Some users don't notice flicker above 75Hz, while some people claim they can actually see flicker at this level. However, according to user studies, 70Hz has been indicated as the point at which most people do not perceive flicker.

GT182
01-04-2005, 04:16 PM
As I said before, Hyundai L90D ..... http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=24-179-010&depa=1

It's both digital and analog. Comes with both cables and the price isn't as much as the Samsung 712. Great monitor for the price and picture quality is great too.

ddsflyer
01-04-2005, 04:20 PM
Nothing, repeat nothing, beats a 21" or 22" crt running high resolution 1200x1600 or better assuming the video card is up to the task. I tried out numerous LCDs including some very pricey and latest generation models, and none could touch my NEC FP2141. If you try them side by side, the difference is readily apparent.

BaldieJr
01-04-2005, 04:43 PM
The Diamondtron FP2141-BK sitting in front of me is a piece of blurred ****. My LCD blows it out of the water.

You two are stuck in the past.

slarsson
01-04-2005, 05:36 PM
This is one of those subjects in which opinions seem to be strongly held in spite of the evidence.

I was happily running a Panasonic 17" CRT at 1024x768. Refresh rate at 80Hz. Great experience.

Then at work, my 19" CRT was repleced by a Wacom Cintiq 18". This is an LCD which also has grahics tablet capability (which is irrelevant). I was so impressed by the quality of the image that I started to consider an LCD for my gaming computer at home.

After doing the research, I was a little worried about the refresh rate thing and the response time. I was concerned about flicker and tearing, and lack of contrast. The reviews I read and the experience of my LCD at work convinced me to make the jump and get a Samsung 213T 21.3" LCD. It's the best thing I ever did with my rig. The refresh rate is 60Hz, but the image isn't a raster scan like a CRT, so there is no (NO) flicker. The response time is 22ms, but there is no (NO) image tearing or blurring, even under rapid TrackIR head movement. The resolution of 1600x1200 @ 32bits is stunning - much better contrast and colour saturation and sharpness than any CRT I've used (and in my work I use a LOT of very expensive, well maintained large CRT displays on graphics workstations). The DVI input helps, of course.

And for those people who still think that a well calibrated modern LCD is not every bit as accurate in colour rendition than a CRT (even when it's new, and even when it's warmed up!), I would suggest discussing the issue with the graphic artists and photographers who make a living doing accurate colour work on an Apple Cinema Display........

The first passenger trains were always going to be a disaster because everybody who was an expert knew that at speeds of 30mph or more "the blood would gel....."

TheGozr
01-04-2005, 06:20 PM
slarsson
Great it's what i do so go ahead talk to me about it..

slarsson
01-04-2005, 08:18 PM
I suggested you discuss it with someone who does it, if I'm not mistaken..........

MO_JOJO
01-05-2005, 01:58 AM
I've been looking as well, and found this one at ZIPZOOMFLY. Any opinions on AG Neovo? It is 19" with 700:1 contrast, and 10ms response time with DVI cable (12ms with 15-pin analog cable). Also, free shipping.

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=238004

VK_Dim
01-05-2005, 02:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BaldieJr:
The Diamondtron FP2141-BK sitting in front of me is a piece of blurred ****. My LCD blows it out of the water.

You two are stuck in the past. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

yeah yeah that's why ppl at Lucas Arts still use CRTs.
Are they still stuck in the past?

x6BL_Brando
01-05-2005, 04:09 AM
I'll certainly take a look at LCD/TFT screens (pardon the pun http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif) when it finally comes to a monitor upgrade. I'm sure the technology will have improved a lot since I bought my Iiyama VM451 6 years ago.
But for now I'm quite happy with 1024x768x32 @ 120Hz, (or 1152x864x32 @ 100Hz, or 1600x1200x32 @ 85Hz) and crystal quality & depth. When I get the UK equivalent of $300 together I'll be spending it on a gfx card to replace my 9700Pro!

1.JaVA_Hornet
01-05-2005, 05:24 AM
Since a couple of weeks I own a Samsung 17"
710T. The time before I had a lg 19"crt.
Believe me I don`t want that crt anymore.

il2fb/pf is much sharper and its much friendlier
to my eyes.

SeminoleX
01-05-2005, 07:42 AM
Get a quality LCD and you will be glad you did.

Image blurr....I have never seen this on my LCD. Refresh rate isn't an important issue with LCDs as it is with CRTs.

Get a poor quality LCD and you will wish you had bought a CRT.

Read reviews, compare, and try out in store before you decide.

madsarmy
01-05-2005, 08:57 AM
I have been putting off buying an LCD for over a year now & reading this thread has just bust a hole in my wallet. I have gone & ordered an Viewsonic VX912B X Series 19" LCD Monitor.

One consolation is I will now have more space to fill with model aircraft etchttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

scottmal1
01-05-2005, 09:06 AM
Bought a Sharp LL-171G 17" LCD about 5 months ago, came out tops in 'custom pc' mag then and also again a couple of months ago with 'custom pc' and 'pc pro'. It's got a 20ms refresh rate and i think the contrast ratio is 430:1. I love it, the colours are spot on, i get no ghosting, it takes up no room, it gives off hardly any heat, and it looks sexy!(you can see it on Tsisquas post on 'showing your rig', when he puts mine in the gallery!) i will never have a CRT again, also dont CRT's give off loads of radiation and stuff?

slarsson
01-05-2005, 11:23 AM
Notwithstanding the fact that there may be some minor advantages under some circumstances of CRTs over LCDs, there are also some advantages of LCDs over CRTs, too. Under highly controlled, rigorous scientific condidtions, they may even be measurable.

However:
CRT phosphors degrade with time. What % of monitors used on home PCs are new and replaced every 6 months? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
What proportion of home PC monitors are running at optimal refresh rates? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif
What proportion of home PC monitors have been properly profiled for colour accuracy using a spider(1%?) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif
What proportion of home PC monitors are only used when they have temperature stabilised? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif
What proportion of home PC monitors have image geometry or colour shifts because they haven't been degaussed properly (or ever)? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif
What proportion of home PC monitors are running on a DVI signal? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif

All of these issues meant that any "quality" differences between CRT and LCD displays are largely irrelevant (unless maybe you are a professional Doom or Quake player) and are certainly more than outweighed by the advantages of modern LCDs over the kind of CRT monitors found on the everage gaming rig:
Excellent contrast http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif
Excellent colour http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Fantastic sharpness http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif
Low power consumption http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Low desk space consumption http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Digital input http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

The radiology department in my hospital has now gone over entirely to digital imaging and LCD displays. None of the radiologists would dream of going back to CRTs for this critical application. The dosimetry and and treatment planning in the radiotherapy department of my cancer clinic is now all done on high-res LCDs - another mission critical application. Anyone who saw NOVA last night saw that the complex analysis of the Mars Rover imagery is done exclusively on LCD - not a CRT in sight.

Bottom line - for the vast majority of applications, and certainly for the home PC user, LCD is simply better, and will continue to pull away from CRT technology. Get one, you won't regret it....

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif

ddsflyer
01-05-2005, 03:26 PM
At least with a CRT you will NEVER, EVER get dead pixels. Nothing is more annoying than looking at black holes for the rest of the life of the display, especially when you are looking for enemy aircraft in the distance.

BaldieJr
01-05-2005, 03:55 PM
On the contrary, with CRT you can get dead pixels, especially after a power spike.

You also can get image burns, moire problems, and color bleed from dirty guns.

Lets also not forget the fact that magnetic fields can cause areas of inaccurate focus.

Basicly, CRT's suck, and the display industry has known it for years.

In other news:
http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200501/200501040025.html

They "print" those screens. Wouldn't it be cool to purchase a canopy-shaped display one day?

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

flyingscampi
01-05-2005, 04:53 PM
I tried both the digital and analogue connection on my EIZO FlexScan L661 and as much as I tried, I couldn't see any difference.

LCD refresh rates have nothing in common with CRT refresh rates as the technologies are totally different. You're comparing pixels on the LCD to phospor dots on the CRT.

My L661 is nearly three years old now and in my opinion it still beats any CRT I've used, even a top Sony model.

I also have a L675 which is a newer model but there is a noticeably slight blurring effect compared to the L661. Maybe the 661 has a better response time?

GT182
01-05-2005, 05:36 PM
ddsflyer, not true, a CRT can go south on you just like any othe display device...TV included. My Hyundai L90D 19" was shipped by FedEx from California to New Hampshire to Syracuse NY then up to me in Northern NY. No damage or dead pixels at all. If All that travel didn't hurt it nothing will. I'd buy another LCD in a second from Newegg. Besides, this LCD is warranteed for 3 years from the manufacturer.

Also you need to get an use a DVI cable for digital. Analog on a Lcd is not the way to go. The only thing is you must have a video card with DVI-out to use it. Digital and LCDs are the only way to fly. I wouldn't have another CRT even if it was given to me.

Cajun76
01-05-2005, 05:40 PM
I've been looking for a 19" LCD with 1600 x 1200 resolution, 23-22mm dot pitch for about $300 US. Anyone know where I can pick one up?

JadehawkII
01-05-2005, 07:18 PM
WOW! A BIG thank you all for your very informative replies! I'm glad to hear LCDs are good for gamers now. You all are a great bunch and I thank you for all your help!

Jadehawk

exos_
01-06-2005, 04:52 AM
I guess I'm as picky as Gozr.

I just bought my wife a 17" 75hz 12ms lcd.

Beautiful color, clear text, great for dvd movies, surfing.

So, while she was out, I grabbed it, hooked it up to my computer http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

First thing I noticed was how good IL2 looked...like I said, great color. However, I'm used to running everything @100hz refresh rate, so off the bat I'm taking a hit on framerate. Well, let's see how it plays, sure looks good.

Even with the fast 12ms I can see ghosting. During extremely fast movement...using trackir (my tir settings are really fast) and external flyby view (at the point where direction changes is most noticable).

At this point I'm connected analog. I switch to dvi and the first thing I see is that in digital, I'm limited to 60hz (is this universal?) giving me an even greater framerate hit. No change in the ghosting that I see. Switching vsync off, I get my framerate back, but now I have tearing added to my ghosting. Needless to say, before the wife got home, the lcd went back on her computer, no one the wiser. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

But like I said, I'm very picky with my video componants (I see flaws that most will not). I'll stick with my high res high refresh rate crt until the lcd technology gets in step with my picky-ness.

If you're not as picky as we are, you will love an lcd for gaming.

ddsflyer
01-06-2005, 09:56 AM
exos_, My experience exactly. I saw ghosting under fast movement no matter which mode (DVI or analog) I used. I saw dead pixels right out of the box. In my humble opinion, LCD is still one generation away from getting it right. Now, plasma..............

AWL_Spinner
01-06-2005, 10:05 AM
Got a fast refreshing 17" LCD (Hitachi) and would never consider a CRT again. Easier on my poor eyes after being sat in front of screens at work all day, apart from anything else!

PF looks great in native 1280x1024.

BM357_TinMan
01-06-2005, 02:28 PM
I didn't know that IL2 supported 1280x1024...

Is there something I should know about here?

deltorro
01-06-2005, 03:31 PM
manually put it in your config.ini
only way I know to do it

BM357_TinMan
01-06-2005, 07:14 PM
You can do that?

Where in the config?

Oh, I see where, going to try it now http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

GT182
01-06-2005, 07:23 PM
Cajun76, go here... I highly recommend it.... http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=24-179-010&depa=1

It comes with a DVI cable for digital connection to your video card. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif And you do want that. Response Time: 25 ms, but is no problem.

qtv
01-06-2005, 09:02 PM
Looked at CRTs/LCDs a while ago, stuck with LCD

Pixel dropping is annoying and a feature of LCDs, it really makes things look bad. Used an LCD at work, yep, pixels out.

Generally the warranty for dropped pixels is slightly different to other parts, eg it may say something like "we will replace the screen if *we* consider too many pixels have dropped out", or they may specify a percentage etc. But to be honest, 2 or 3 dropped pixels is pretty noticeable, 6 is very noticeable. Check how many pixels have to drop before the manufacturer will replace the unit. Obviously they hate replacing a screen just because a few pixels out of thousands have dropped.

Also, from memory, life of the LCD is less.

So for me, LCDs weren't worth it. The thought of living with dropped pixels for a few years on a screen that won't last as long as a CRT anyway was important.

I also know that people in the movies don't recommend watching movies with rapid movements purely because of the slowness of the liquid crystal to change colours - resulting in the ghosting.

But it does seem easier for a newb to get a perfect picture on an LCD than it is to get the same on a CRT.

Cajun76
01-07-2005, 01:20 AM
GT182, thank you for the link, but I'm picky like exos_. That LCD you linked at near twice the price can't touch the capibilties of this CRT.

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=24-001-169&depa=1

I would already have to lower my desktop resolution for the LCD, and if I get the vid card I want, it would be wasted on the lower resolutions the LCD is limited to.

I actually bought a $600 LCD about 8 months ago. The warmup time was nil, but the 20ms ghosting was immediately noticeble, and unacceptable, even scrolling on webpages. I also had to lower my desktop from 1600 x 1200 to the max for the LCD. (Yes, I can read on mine at 16 x 12, I changed the dpi, I can see large pics and still read the forums without eyestrain. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif)

The only advantage I can see for the LCD is deskspace. The 1920 x 1440 the CRT is capable of beats it, the 20mm dot pitch is the difference between color photos and color newsprint, and the price is almost half. This CRT even has a flat screen.

I'm not even talking about refresh, I know they're not really comparable, but every other aspect, the CRT has it beat in display capability and quality. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Sorry guys, show me an LCD comparable with a CRT at even twice the price and I'll consider it. Minimum, 1600 x 1200, 23mm or less dot pitch, and 19-23 inch screen. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

JG52Russkly
01-07-2005, 07:11 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GT182:
I prefer the LCDs over the CRTs any day. I just bought this one and love it.... http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=24-179-010&depa=1 I previously had a 17"[actually 16"] so the upgrade was extra nice.

The190Flyer, I disagree. There's nothing blurry at all flying IL2 on this monitor and details are excellent.

Contrast Ratio is 500:1 and Response Time is 25 ms, but I've had no problems. Cost has come down $10.00 too. The great thing is it comes with a DVi cable so you don't need to buy one. BTW, that's so you have digital instead of analog connection to your video card, which is better. Also it being 19" monitor is great too. I'd recommend the Hyundai L90D any day. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

@GT182 - Does that mean I should get a DVI cable to connect my LCD monitor to my 9800 PRO? At preseent I just use the standard analog connection.

Thanks for your help.

R

ddsflyer
01-07-2005, 09:49 AM
Right now there is only one LCD monitor that is truly worthy of this game, large enough for 1600x1200 resolution and with 16ns refresh, the Dell 2001FP. If you have $600 to spend, get it.

madsarmy
01-07-2005, 10:06 AM
My LCD Monitor turned up today & I'm over the moon with it.

Viewsonic VX912B X Series 19" LCD Monitor
- 1280x1024 Optimum Resolution
- 500:1 Contrast Ratio
- Viewing Angle 140? horizontal, 160? vertical
- 12ms Response Time
- 250 cd/m2 Brightness
- One Analog Inputs
- One DVI-D Input

madsarmy
01-09-2005, 10:14 AM
2 days on & some heavy FB testing & I must say that I have not been left disappointed. Even though the refresh rate is not so high it seems to pan smoother than my CRT.
Money well spent inmy bookhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif