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TheStriker_p51d
07-18-2005, 06:18 PM
MEGIL;E TOLD ME IT WAS COMIN. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

VW-IceFire
07-18-2005, 06:52 PM
Interesting...you've uncovered more than I have in the last three months.

Maybe we'll finally get that "RAF Patch" that some of us have sort of been quietly hoping for http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

MEGILE
07-18-2005, 06:54 PM
Yuo KNOWZ IT!

XIV is coming and its gonna pimp the gerries HARD!

We are gonna get the +30 lbs Boost version, using 200 Octane fuel and 6 Props of Death, powerd by the 2400 HP Falcon.

VW-IceFire
07-18-2005, 07:01 PM
Originally posted by Megile:
Yuo KNOWZ IT!

XIV is coming and its gonna pimp the gerries HARD!

We are gonna get the +30 lbs Boost version, using 200 Octane fuel and 6 Props of Death, powerd by the 2400 HP Falcon.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Monty_Thrud
07-18-2005, 07:06 PM
Maybe we'll finally get that "RAF Patch" that some of us have sort of been quietly hoping for




I've not been so quiet...i've been on a Spitfire spam campaign http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

http://premium1.uploadit.org/bsamania//SPAMALOT.gif

MkIXe-25Lber and Mk XIV ...thank you please sir God http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gifOleg http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif...*grovel, grovel* http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

After all we need top cover for the Tempest, when she arrives,flyable...repeat...thank you please sir God http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gifOleg http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif...*grovel, grovel* http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

MEGILE
07-18-2005, 07:14 PM
Spit MKI would be cool.. then we could run BoB missions... but the Hurri is a good enough ride http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

MEGILE
07-18-2005, 07:21 PM
Actually as an after thought, what boost and Fuel were the Spit XIVs run on? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

MEGILE
07-18-2005, 07:29 PM
http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spit14+25lbs.jpg

The Three Amigos

Gibbage1
07-18-2005, 07:32 PM
Your Fantisy XIV never flew, be sure!

Ow, shoot. I was just posessed by Kurfurst! Sorry. I wont let THAT happen again. I feel dirty now. Im off to take 20 showers.

MEGILE
07-18-2005, 07:33 PM
Spitfireperformance.com gives figures for 18, 21 and 25 boost http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

EDIT: nvm, apparently 25 boost wasn't used prior to VE day

p1ngu666
07-18-2005, 07:37 PM
25 is iffy, 21 was alot used tho http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

MEGILE
07-18-2005, 07:44 PM
Interesting.
610 sqn started upgrading to 21lbs Boost in July 1944 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Got a chart for the 21 boost, p1ngu? Spitfireperformance only has a Rolls Royce chart containing data to 8k FT

Fish6891
07-18-2005, 07:53 PM
Oleg told me the FW series would pzwonzwon the SpitXIV and Tempest.

Face it.

FW190D9 = teh secks

MEGILE
07-18-2005, 07:54 PM
Fish, hush nub, yuo is wrong. Be sure!

Hmm maybe someone could fire off an email to oleg.

Spitfire XIV, and Spitfire XIV Late http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Stackhouse25th
07-18-2005, 07:58 PM
in

MEGILE
07-18-2005, 08:00 PM
Originally posted by Stackhouse25th:
in

w00t!

Fish6891
07-18-2005, 08:01 PM
Just accept the truth Maggie.

Other than perhaps the Tempest causing the Dora to maybe break a healthy sweat, things won't change much 'RELATIVELY' that is :]

MEGILE
07-18-2005, 08:03 PM
Dora better than a Tempest?
The crosses on the nose of Clostermans Tempest say, you is wrong. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Fish6891
07-18-2005, 08:13 PM
All indicative of downed 109G2 n00bs methinks! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

VW-IceFire
07-18-2005, 08:20 PM
Anyone have any REAL info on this bird.

I was even involved at the outset but all modelers and stuff have disappeared, don't respond to e-mail, and so on.

MEGILE
07-18-2005, 08:27 PM
I have real real information
Not not real game information. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


may have to wait for BoB Addon "Raf go Uber"

Fish6891
07-18-2005, 08:39 PM
Originally posted by Megile:
I have real real information
Not not real game information. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


may have to wait for BoB Addon "Raf go Uber"

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

MEGILE
07-18-2005, 08:41 PM
Fish, aint nothing wrong with "keepin' it uber"

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Fish6891
07-18-2005, 08:45 PM
My thoughts exactly, cheeky bastard http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Hristo_
07-18-2005, 11:43 PM
You can have all your Spit XIVs, P-LI Ds, P-LXIIIs, P-XXXVIII L Lates and C/CL octane.

The Me CCLXII A owns them all http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/air_power/ap11.jpg

HayateAce
07-19-2005, 12:28 AM
Now limpwristo,

Don't be bitter. My sweet 84 eat your german lunch.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
http://www.lares.dti.ne.jp/~jps/cg3/ki84no2.jpg

Hristo_
07-19-2005, 12:42 AM
Originally posted by HayateAce:
Now limpwristo,

Don't be bitter. My sweet 84 eat your german lunch.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
http://www.lares.dti.ne.jp/~jps/cg3/ki84no2.jpg

You mean the LXXXIV ?

YAOI !!!

Tvrdi
07-19-2005, 01:24 AM
Originally posted by Megile:
Yuo KNOWZ IT!

XIV is coming and its gonna pimp the gerries HARD!


with such skills of an average red pilot ull gone cry even in mighty spitXIV...

Hristo...please hav mercy for them http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

ploughman
07-19-2005, 04:55 AM
Did somebody hack Hristo's sig or has he developed a sense of humour? Pretty funny though, P-38 Klown-wagen.

Tvrdi, you bottom sniffer, get out from Hristo's shadow and spam elsewhere.

MEGILE
07-19-2005, 04:56 AM
Turdi, You nice?

MEGILE
07-19-2005, 05:48 AM
BUMP for 21 boost charts.

WOLFMondo
07-19-2005, 06:00 AM
Originally posted by Fish6891:
Just accept the truth Maggie.

Other than perhaps the Tempest causing the Dora to maybe break a healthy sweat, things won't change much 'RELATIVELY' that is :]

The Dora will have to stick jet engines on its wings to compete with the Tempest :P

We could call it the Dora late.

BigganD
07-19-2005, 07:10 AM
Why are they adding more fantasy planes? LF should then have the K-14 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif muhaha.. I can allready see how it will look like on the servers, every red flying XIV.

Biggan has shotdown xxx.
xxx : If i had my spit XIV you would get owned.
xxx has left the game

zimbower1
07-19-2005, 07:17 AM
How sweet...http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y31/Zimbower/Muppet.jpg

p1ngu666
07-19-2005, 07:20 AM
they made 2-3 k14. all different http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

BigganD
07-19-2005, 07:32 AM
But anyway reds need a plane that can do everything http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif . A 1945 plane, we will see more 1945 servers if not non historical plane sets.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y31/Zimbower/Image3_2x1.jpg
"We need a plane that can think for us!"

VW-IceFire
07-19-2005, 07:32 AM
Originally posted by BigganD:
Why are they adding more fantasy planes? LF should then have the K-14 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif muhaha.. I can allready see how it will look like on the servers, every red flying XIV.

Biggan has shotdown xxx.
xxx : If i had my spit XIV you would get owned.
xxx has left the game
Would make up for the fact that every blue is flying a Bf109K-4 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Poor disadvantaged blue...

Fish6891
07-19-2005, 07:32 AM
Originally posted by Tvrdi:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Megile:
Yuo KNOWZ IT!

XIV is coming and its gonna pimp the gerries HARD!


with such skills of an average red pilot ull gone cry even in mighty spitXIV...

Hristo...please hav mercy for them http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Skills of an average pilot? Megile? You is wrong Tvrdi, be sure.

Megile is really an undercover LW Ace, he just pretends to be Red biased sometimes for trolling reasons http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Fish6891
07-19-2005, 07:36 AM
Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fish6891:
Just accept the truth Maggie.

Other than perhaps the Tempest causing the Dora to maybe break a healthy sweat, things won't change much 'RELATIVELY' that is :]

The Dora will have to stick jet engines on its wings to compete with the Tempest :P

We could call it the Dora late. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

APFFFFFFFFFFFT! TUT!

You keep believing in your fat turkey throated Tempest http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

MEGILE
07-19-2005, 07:44 AM
Fish conspires with Oleg to nerf the Spitfire XIV and Tempest V even before they are in game.
Leave this thread and never open again! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

Keep the faith Mondy, but I fear Fish's influence will succeed.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif


A 1945 plane, we will see more 1945 servers if not non historical plane sets

1945 plane? You must be talking about the K4.. surely not the SpitXIV http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif the XIV was flying operational sorties while Willy was just having wet dreams about the Kurfurst.

BigganD
07-19-2005, 08:01 AM
DB 605ASC C3 + MW- 50 2000hp http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

Kocur_
07-19-2005, 10:56 AM
Oh dear! It might get accelerated! I can already see D-12/13 thread cominghttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif (http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif13!13! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif)

Fish6891
07-19-2005, 11:03 AM
Ta-152C anyone? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

MEGILE
07-19-2005, 11:07 AM
Luftn00bs!

Kocur_
07-19-2005, 11:11 AM
Hell! Why not some coal-powered Lippisch delta? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Grue_
07-19-2005, 11:31 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v458/flyingscampi/spitxiv.jpg

MEGILE
07-19-2005, 11:39 AM
http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/wwii/photos/gallery_005/Bf%20109E%20%20of%20Oberleutnant%20Kark%20Fischer% 20-%20Jg%2027.jpg




That's actually an amazing pic.

Grue_
07-19-2005, 11:47 AM
Any history on that pic Megile?

My pic is of the RealAir Spit XIV for FS2004. Very nice model http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

MEGILE
07-19-2005, 12:06 PM
Bf-109E of Oberleutnant Kark Fischer. That's all I know

VW-IceFire
07-19-2005, 12:54 PM
Originally posted by BigganD:
But anyway reds need a plane that can do everything http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif . A 1945 plane, we will see more 1945 servers if not non historical plane sets.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y31/Zimbower/Image3_2x1.jpg
"We need a plane that can think for us!"
XIV in service before D-Day. Flew missions after D-Day over Normandy. On strength with a small number of frontline RAF squadrons until the end...particularly in the 2nd TAF hunting jet fighters and bombers.

Entered service before the Bf109K-4. Be sure. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Hristo_
07-19-2005, 01:19 PM
Who are you kidding ?!

It's a 'what-if' plane !

Kurfurst__
07-19-2005, 03:19 PM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
XIV in service before D-Day. Flew missions after D-Day over Normandy. On strength with a small number of frontline RAF squadrons until the end...particularly in the 2nd TAF hunting jet fighters and bombers.

Entered service before the Bf109K-4. Be sure. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Surely it was in service before the K-4... March 1944 vs. Nov 1944 for the 109K. I was around in quite larger numbers though, XIVs were quite rare.

BTW... I don`t think the real fighter service of the XIV was that much far of from the 109K. Ie., there was only a handful around until the V-1 strikes came, and XIVs were fighting those drones until September, then they went onto the continent to the 2nd TAF and seen some real action.. Just a month before the 109K began to flow the the Jagdgeschwaders. No doubt between April and June 1944 the XIV saw some action, but there was less then a Wing of them around, and that`s not much of a notice.

Spit XIV on +21 lbs w. 150 grade :

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spit14at21.jpg

I don`t expect that much of a changeover... the XIV is good at low altitudes where our fights at, but there are better planes for these altitudes, LA-7, Tempest, D-9, K-4... the XIV really shines over 7000m, pretty much like the Ta152!

stathem
07-19-2005, 03:37 PM
Yeah, but Kurfurst, the XIV's flew 3 sorties a day when the weather was amenable; they didn't sit pilotless and fuel-less in aircraft parks waiting to be destroyed...

TheStriker_p51d
07-19-2005, 03:56 PM
http://www.dimension-unlimited.de/media/Crash6.jpg
haha

Kurfurst__
07-19-2005, 04:14 PM
Originally posted by stathem:
Yeah, but Kurfurst, the XIV's flew 3 sorties a day when the weather was amenable; they didn't sit pilotless and fuel-less in aircraft parks waiting to be destroyed...

Except for 1st January 1945 of course, when 109Ks destroyed them on the ground. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

They flew 1/3 the number of sorties 109Ks did. That`s the biggest differnce between the two, XIVs were an extremely small part even of the 2nd TAF, whereas the LW was equipping with the ultimate 109 on a large scale and quickly - they lacked good pilots to push it to it`s full potential though.

PS : for your signature... FYI, Britain produced around 50k tons of aluminium per year in the war... Germany : 250k tons/year. Just so you know. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

carguy_
07-19-2005, 05:52 PM
Originally posted by BigganD:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y31/Zimbower/Image3_2x1.jpg
"We need a plane that can think for us!"


ROFL that is yer average Spit pilot http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

MEGILE
07-19-2005, 06:21 PM
Hush Luftwaffles

p1ngu666
07-19-2005, 06:42 PM
Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stathem:
Yeah, but Kurfurst, the XIV's flew 3 sorties a day when the weather was amenable; they didn't sit pilotless and fuel-less in aircraft parks waiting to be destroyed...

Except for 1st January 1945 of course, when 109Ks destroyed them on the ground. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

They flew 1/3 the number of sorties 109Ks did. That`s the biggest differnce between the two, XIVs were an extremely small part even of the 2nd TAF, whereas the LW was equipping with the ultimate 109 on a large scale and quickly - they lacked good pilots to push it to it`s full potential though.

PS : for your signature... FYI, Britain produced around 50k tons of aluminium per year in the war... Germany : 250k tons/year. Just so you know. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

hm, XIV has teh jump on K4 because it was in service in janurary i think, vs septemberish for the k4?
probably more k4s around at certain times, but probably doing less sorties per aircraft.

i also think the mk18 was like a XIV, but with a camera sticking out the side, ill haveto re read ma spitfire stuff.

XIV will be found at low alt for sure, k4, ta152 (heck teh real heros of teh lw never used them up high?) are found down low..

MEGILE
07-19-2005, 06:44 PM
610 started getting XIVs in January, but it wasn't until March 31st that they had fully converted.
IIRC it was July when they started using 21lbs BOOST
Wanted to point that out before kurfy did http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Kurfurst__
07-19-2005, 06:54 PM
Originally posted by p1ngu666:
hm, XIV has teh jump on K4 because it was in service in janurary i think, vs septemberish for the k4?

K-4 was produced from August, delivered to units in early October, first saw action 2nd November. It was developed from 1943.




probably more k4s around at certain times, but probably doing less sorties per aircraft.

Problem is, in the first months (oct to dec) the 109K appeared there were 200 of them in the units... by end jan45, there were 314. I guess it increased even further. And then was these G-10s, the half-brothers of the 109K...

MkXIVs, 5 figther sqns of them with 2nd TAF, err, 60 aircraft for operations - and no more sqn had equipped until the end of war. So MkXIVs had to fly REAALY a lot more sorties to make up for being so rare. And the Luftwaffe, as opposed to popular myth, wasn`t nearly written off, it still flew 10-15 000 fighter sorties every month between dec44-feb45..



XIV will be found at low alt for sure, k4, ta152 (heck teh real heros of teh lw never used them up high?) are found down low..

Yeah, but they are nothing special at these low altitudes... that`s La-7 hunting ground, the first 2000meters.. and it won`t really change, ever. Mustang III is fast but underarmed/avarage manouveribilty/poor visibilty, the Tempest will be fast and pack the punch but a bit sluggish to manouvre. La-7 has all.

p1ngu666
07-19-2005, 07:02 PM
id expect spitfire to be similer to k4 in performance, it should do 360mph on the deck, climb with k4, u could swing the advantage over a la7 with the climb rate...

and now i goto bed http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

MEGILE
07-19-2005, 07:05 PM
Was XIV production restricted because the RAF didn't need more, with 2TAF alredy having the Tempest, and with the Mustang in service also aswell as Higher boosted Spit IXs.
it would be good to know the total number and percentages of different RAF types flying operational sorties http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Slater_51st
07-19-2005, 07:34 PM
Originally posted by Megile:
Was XIV production restricted because the RAF didn't need more, with 2TAF alredy having the Tempest, and with the Mustang in service also aswell as Higher boosted Spit IXs.
it would be good to know the total number and percentages of different RAF types flying operational sorties http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I do not know about total RAF types flying, but, from "Spitfire in Action" by Squadron signal, page 39:
"A total of 957 Mk XIVs were built, the first examples entering service in Europe with No. 610(County of Chester) Sqdn, in January of 1944. Subsequently 38 RAF squadrons flew it, some well into the post war era, making the Mk XIV the most widely used of all Griffon-engined Spitfires and the only one to be used in quantity in WWII.

However, I find it interesting that, according to the same book, regarding the Mk XVI:
"..the Mk XVI was given a new mark to distinguish its powerplant - the Merlin 266 built by the US Packard Motor Co. A low-rated Merlin 66, the engine began to reach the UK in quantity in 1944 and was installed in production Mk IXs from September...the production total was 1,053."

So, LATER in the war, they made more of the Mk XVI than the Mk XIV??? Oh, and they made 5,665 Mk IXs. I wonder if it could have been pilot preference? I believe Johnny Johnson trash talked the Griffon varients, and said they should be considered "Spitfires" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I'll see if I can't dig up the quote http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

S! Slater

Stackhouse25th
07-19-2005, 07:46 PM
This thread is so hot im 'IN' again.

http://cdn-channels.netscape.com/gallery/i/b/bilson/lg1.jpg

TheStriker_p51d
07-19-2005, 08:19 PM
http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/wwii/photos/gallery_005/Examining%20Me%20109-G%20wreckage%20Normandy%20July%201944.jpg


awww poooooor " 1 oh whine"

VW-IceFire
07-19-2005, 10:19 PM
Trouble with all Luftwaffe birds from say October or November on was the seemingly critical lack of fuel but more importantly the lack of pilots.

Time and time again, it was the lack of pilots that were the problem according to what I've read. German industry in 1945 was operating at levels perhaps even better than in previous years despite the bombing. There were plenty of 109K-4s and FW190D-9s and FW190A-9s and the like available but there was less fuel and very few pilots available to fly them. So many planes would sit around.

I've heard it said that often a damaged but repairable FW190 would be put aside and a new one brought up because the planes were there...

So I'm sure while the 109K was available in greater numbers, I would be willing to bet, although I haven't investigated the numbers specifically, that the actual sortie number either is very close to each other or favours the Spitfire XIV.

Regardless, if it is included in the simulation, it should probably be wherever the Bf109K-4 is. They are both the sort of "pinnacle" of each fighters wartime life, saw similar action, in relatively similar numbers of sorties (my educated assumption based on general knowledge of deployment and strategic situation), and in my opinion deserve equal presentation on online servers seeking to represent this period.

It can't be argued that "well all Allied pilots would just go and fly the XIV instead of the earlier models" when it could be equally said that "well all Luftwaffe pilots would just go and fly the Bf109K-4 instead of flying the G-6 Late or G-10 like they should be". And then of course we know, that the late war "uber birds" aren't always the best pilots planes and not everyone flies them either.

VW-IceFire
07-19-2005, 10:45 PM
Originally posted by Slater_51st:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Megile:
Was XIV production restricted because the RAF didn't need more, with 2TAF alredy having the Tempest, and with the Mustang in service also aswell as Higher boosted Spit IXs.
it would be good to know the total number and percentages of different RAF types flying operational sorties http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I do not know about total RAF types flying, but, from "Spitfire in Action" by Squadron signal, page 39:
"A total of 957 Mk XIVs were built, the first examples entering service in Europe with No. 610(County of Chester) Sqdn, in January of 1944. Subsequently 38 RAF squadrons flew it, some well into the post war era, making the Mk XIV the most widely used of all Griffon-engined Spitfires and the only one to be used in quantity in WWII.

However, I find it interesting that, according to the same book, regarding the Mk XVI:
"..the Mk XVI was given a new mark to distinguish its powerplant - the Merlin 266 built by the US Packard Motor Co. A low-rated Merlin 66, the engine began to reach the UK in quantity in 1944 and was installed in production Mk IXs from September...the production total was 1,053."

So, LATER in the war, they made more of the Mk XVI than the Mk XIV??? Oh, and they made 5,665 Mk IXs. I wonder if it could have been pilot preference? I believe Johnny Johnson trash talked the Griffon varients, and said they should be considered "Spitfires" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I'll see if I can't dig up the quote http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

S! Slater </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
On the XVI vs IX thing in terms of performance. There was alot of back and forth things between squadrons, particularly those with mixed IX and XVI models. Turns out that the Packard Merlin (the 266 as mentioned) started production in the US without some of the tweaks made at the British factories and that the improvements in the IX aircraft sometimes gave better performance (a few MPH here and there) than the Packard Merlin versions. I'll dig up the quote on that.

Regardless, the XVI models, at +24lbs of Boost were fast enough to compete with whatever they did face in the Luftwaffe...they weren't superior but they were very competitive and besides that, the 2nd TAF was fighting more flak and shooting up trains and vehicles than they were running into the Luftwaffe.

And of course the small numbers of Tempests and Spitfire XIV's were in great enough quantity to keep up with the German units.

And I like to think that you still had the USAAF with its P-47D/M and P-51Ds sweeping quite a large path of airspace along the bomber streams deep into Germany anyways.

The USAAF did prevent 2nd TAF Meteors from entering into combat with the Luftwaffe by mistakenly attacking them at least once.

WOLFMondo
07-20-2005, 12:49 AM
Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
Yeah, but they are nothing special at these low altitudes... that`s La-7 hunting ground, the first 2000meters.. and it won`t really change, ever. Mustang III is fast but underarmed/avarage manouveribilty/poor visibilty, the Tempest will be fast and pack the punch but a bit sluggish to manouvre. La-7 has all.

tempests flown at the right speed...350mph plus i dare say are more nimble than the la7 which has poor high speed manouverability. i'd also like to see an la7 pull a 550-600mph dive and not only retain some control but not break up.

ploughman
07-20-2005, 03:26 AM
PS : for your signature... FYI, Britain produced around 50k tons of aluminium per year in the war... Germany : 250k tons/year. Just so you know.

Shows what a dope Herman was doesn't it? Mind you, while UK aluminium production did indeed increase to slightly over 50K tons/year by 1943 it had rather more than that available to it, and as the Reichsmarshal pointed out, thanks to those generous Americans, Britain could afford it.

"Aluminium was a vital metal for aircraft production, and annual [UK] ingot capacity was
raised to 31,000 tons in 1939 and increased further to 54,000 tons by 1943. With
scrap and imports, the total supply of aluminium reached nearly 300,000 tons by 1943."

link"]http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/economics/staff/facul.../wp/totwar3.pdf]link ( [url="http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/economics/staff/faculty/broadberry/wp/totwar3.pdf) to source[/URL]

BigganD
07-20-2005, 03:49 AM
VW-IceFire just dont play on fantasy servers (wc) there are some good servers with historical plane sets. I know that warclouds will have the new spits, wont be fun to play there, Blue K4s D9s vs XIV Tempest.
Now mostly on warclouds, IXe p38Late vs K4 D9, Uber vs Uber http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

mynameisroland
07-20-2005, 04:55 AM
Originally posted by BigganD:
VW-IceFire just dont play on fantasy servers (wc) there are some good servers with historical plane sets. I know that warclouds will have the new spits, wont be fun to play there, Blue K4s D9s vs XIV Tempest.
Now mostly on warclouds, IXe p38Late vs K4 D9, Uber vs Uber http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Biggan if you are looking for a good server with historical match ups try UKD 1 and 2 for some of the best mission orientated dog fight servers around- from 39 to 45, eastern, med, western and pacific all covered in rotating maps.

BigganD
07-20-2005, 05:25 AM
mynameisroland I dont like UKD servers because they dont use full settings (hate icons), I am now playing on spit vs 109 with historical missons and also they have full real.

MEGILE
07-20-2005, 05:31 AM
UKD2 has externals OFF, that atleast is pretty cool, but the full realism of Spits vs. 109s is great. I'd fly there more if I had Track IR http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

WOLFMondo
07-20-2005, 05:42 AM
Originally posted by mynameisroland:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BigganD:
VW-IceFire just dont play on fantasy servers (wc) there are some good servers with historical plane sets. I know that warclouds will have the new spits, wont be fun to play there, Blue K4s D9s vs XIV Tempest.

Biggan if you are looking for a good server with historical match ups try UKD 1 and 2 for some of the best mission orientated dog fight servers around- from 39 to 45, eastern, med, western and pacific all covered in rotating maps. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

K4's and D9's vs XIV's and Tempest V's...sounds like a standard day on the western front circa January to May 1945 for your average 2nd TAF fighter pilot. Throw in the lone Do335 and 262 and its almost 100% historical.http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

VW-IceFire
07-20-2005, 08:35 AM
Originally posted by BigganD:
mynameisroland I dont like UKD servers because they dont use full settings (hate icons), I am now playing on spit vs 109 with historical missons and also they have full real.
I fly on UK-D BECAUSE of the less full settings. I disagree with them being considered "full real" anyways http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Nonetheless, for people such as yourself, there is a new UK-D2 server with settings like Spitfire V 109 that features all of our same maps.

We have maps of everything there. Early East Front, Channel War 1943, Operation Autumn Storm, Battle of Britain, Kursk 1943, Berlin 1945, and so on.

Trouble is nobody knows about UK-D2...most of us who fly UK-D1 consider it the best non-full stops server around and we prefer the settings there. But I know people like different things and the UK-D guys know this too and have setup that server.

We've used it for Squad Wars training and for this.

If the Tempest, Mosqutio, and Spitfire XIV are ever to arrive, I will certainly be asking for these planes to be paired up against FW190D-9s and Bf109K-4s. But I fly on all years with all planes...Yak-1s, early IL-2s, Spitfire Vs, IXs, and the whole range of aircraft. I think I have stick time in every plane in the game now...except maybe the Bi-1 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

stathem
07-20-2005, 12:30 PM
Originally posted by Kurfurst__:

MkXIVs, 5 figther sqns of them with 2nd TAF, err, 60 aircraft for operations - and no more sqn had equipped until the end of war. So MkXIVs had to fly REAALY a lot more sorties to make up for being so rare. And the Luftwaffe, as opposed to popular myth, wasn`t nearly written off, it still flew 10-15 000 fighter sorties every month between dec44-feb45..



Ok being generous with your figures, lets take the top estimate and say 15,000 sorties. And to continue the generosity, let's say the K-4 was 1/3 of the Jagdwaffe forces on average. That's 5000 K-4 sorties a month over Jan to April.

Now let's be little generous with the XIV. We know from Clostermann that the 2nd TAF squadron strengh was closer to 20 aircraft, so that's 100 XIV's. Running at 3 sorties a day (and no replacement pilot or plane issues) that's 300 sorties a day. But the weather's not good, so they can only fly that on 15 days out of the month.

So we have 4500 XIV sorties per month - within 10% of the K-4 figure. And the K-4's were presumably used over the whole of what was left of the third reich, whereas the Spitfires were operating in the Commonwealth part of the western front.


Btw, regarding my sig, take it up with your mate Hermann, he said it. And FYI, in the English language, "afford" and "produced" have two completely diffent meanings. Just so you know.

Besides, I thought the second paragraph was more amusing.

biggs222
07-20-2005, 12:53 PM
cmon guys are we even going to get the MkXIV at all? has there been anything offical said as of yet?

BTW Ice, i couldnt get the IP address to wrk for UKD1. i tried typing it in in the ingame connection menu but no luck. am i doing something wrong? also i lost the IP #

VW-IceFire
07-20-2005, 02:40 PM
Originally posted by biggs222:
cmon guys are we even going to get the MkXIV at all? has there been anything offical said as of yet?

BTW Ice, i couldnt get the IP address to wrk for UKD1. i tried typing it in in the ingame connection menu but no luck. am i doing something wrong? also i lost the IP #
IP Address is: 195.149.21.215:21000

Make sure you keep that :21000 because thats the IL-2 engines designated port. If you leave that out, it won't work.

No news on the XIV. Its totally a mystery...everything was going so well and now nyme has dropped off the face of the earth and the other fellow doing the cockpit didn't tell us he couldn't do it (bad communication really) anymore...so things go badly when people don't say things. I'd rather know and be done with it...nobody responds to e-mails regarding that. So its probably pooched unless someone knows better.

stathem, I completely agree.

TheStriker_p51d
07-20-2005, 02:49 PM
i talked to someone who "worked for oleg" lets say, a while ago and the status of the plane was cockpit and plane were turned over to 1c for the 4.01 patch...who knows what its status is now...god i hope they give us the rest of those unreleased planes people have dumped hours upon hours on. lets hope for the best.

mynameisroland
07-20-2005, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by BigganD:
mynameisroland I dont like UKD servers because they dont use full settings (hate icons), I am now playing on spit vs 109 with historical missons and also they have full real.

What Megile said http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

try out UKD 2 sometime good bunch of guys fly there and maps are varied.

VW-IceFire
07-20-2005, 04:27 PM
Originally posted by TheStriker_p51d:
i talked to someone who "worked for oleg" lets say, a while ago and the status of the plane was cockpit and plane were turned over to 1c for the 4.01 patch...who knows what its status is now...god i hope they give us the rest of those unreleased planes people have dumped hours upon hours on. lets hope for the best.
Well that would indicate that Oleg did get his hands on the cockpit then.

That could be very fortunate... The differences between the Mark VIII and XIV were small except the gunsight which is cosmetically different but fuctionally identical to the K-14 Gunsight in the P-51D-20.

biggs222
07-20-2005, 05:08 PM
yeah thats why i dont think it will ever show up. its a plane thats practically already made. all the 1c team needs to do is the FM.

the gyro sight is already made... just plug in the coding from the gyro sight that the Mustang has. i believe i saw Biggs's Gyro mkII sight already modeled also.

so with all that beign said ive jumped off the band wagon... sadly

it would be nice to hear from Oleg about this.

MEGILE
07-20-2005, 05:11 PM
hmm so no XIV.
Oh well.. maybe a 25 boost IXe http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Monty_Thrud
07-20-2005, 05:38 PM
I'm not quite sure i understand all this...1c have the Mk XIV already complete, but they also have the Mossie complete also and that didnt make it either, the Tempest CP is being finished...by my massive powers of deduction, i surmise that...WE'RE GOING TO GET ALL THREE IN THE NEXT PATCH!!!...BOOYAKA!!...BIG UP! OLEG http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif....YeEeSsS!!...*AHEM*...ok...maybe not...but i've got to think positive here http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

MEGILE
07-20-2005, 05:41 PM
Oleg having something, and Oleg releasing something are two different things.
Maybe get the tempest, doubt we get the XIV http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

faustnik
07-20-2005, 05:41 PM
Originally posted by Megile:
hmm so no XIV.
Oh well.. maybe a 25 boost IXe http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Yep, no graphics work required for the Spit IXe Late, P-51D Late and P-47D Late. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

MEGILE
07-20-2005, 05:43 PM
Hey Faustnik, any 3D changes needed for an A7? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

faustnik
07-20-2005, 05:46 PM
Originally posted by Megile:
Hey Faustnik, any 3D changes needed for an A7? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

None that I can think of. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Monty_Thrud
07-20-2005, 05:47 PM
Now i am deeply upset...no Mk XIV http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

MEGILE
07-20-2005, 05:53 PM
Originally posted by faustnik:


None that I can think of. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

An Uber patch would be good to finish AEP off with.
JU-88, A-20C, Tempest V, Mosquito, Spitfire XIV, Spitfire XIV Late, another BF-109 variant they are asking for in ORR, FW-190A7, Spitfire IXe Late, P-47 Late.

Especialy as a few of those don't require 3d model changes http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

faustnik
07-20-2005, 05:59 PM
Originally posted by Megile:

An Uber patch would be good to finish AEP off with.
JU-88, A-20C, Tempest V, Mosquito, Spitfire XIV, Spitfire XIV Late, another BF-109 variant they are asking for in ORR, FW-190A7, Spitfire IXe Late, P-47 Late.

Especialy as a few of those don't require 3d model changes http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Great list. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif The LW really doesn't need another late war a/c as they have the Me262 and Dora. The A7 would be great for the sake of completeness. The only other late LW a/c that would be interesting is a Fw190A-11 but, it needs a front end remake from the D9.

JG53Frankyboy
07-20-2005, 06:07 PM
Originally posted by faustnik:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Megile:

An Uber patch would be good to finish AEP off with.
JU-88, A-20C, Tempest V, Mosquito, Spitfire XIV, Spitfire XIV Late, another BF-109 variant they are asking for in ORR, FW-190A7, Spitfire IXe Late, P-47 Late.

Especialy as a few of those don't require 3d model changes http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Great list. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif The LW really doesn't need another late war a/c as they have the Me262 and Dora. The A7 would be great for the sake of completeness. The only other late LW a/c that would be interesting is a Fw190A-11 but, it needs a front end remake from the D9. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

so far i remember the main difference between an A7 and A8 was the additional 115l fuel tank of the A8.
and the ingame A8 has not this tank . its actually an A7 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

VW-IceFire
07-20-2005, 07:58 PM
I imagine guys its all a matter of time. There is, from what we understand, one guy now working on the IL-2 series and everyone else is off coding. Fair enough, they have supported the current engine for long enough and its time to move along. But I'd love to see a parting gift for those of us who have been waiting for so long...

And if not...then not. I'd sure like to know and not have my hopes up any longer. Tempest, Mosqutio, Spitfire XIV...that'd be a dream come true http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

p1ngu666
07-20-2005, 09:07 PM
Originally posted by JG53Frankyboy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by faustnik:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Megile:

An Uber patch would be good to finish AEP off with.
JU-88, A-20C, Tempest V, Mosquito, Spitfire XIV, Spitfire XIV Late, another BF-109 variant they are asking for in ORR, FW-190A7, Spitfire IXe Late, P-47 Late.

Especialy as a few of those don't require 3d model changes http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Great list. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif The LW really doesn't need another late war a/c as they have the Me262 and Dora. The A7 would be great for the sake of completeness. The only other late LW a/c that would be interesting is a Fw190A-11 but, it needs a front end remake from the D9. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

so far i remember the main difference between an A7 and A8 was the additional 115l fuel tank of the A8.
and the ingame A8 has not this tank . its actually an A7 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

for 190 series most important missing is f9 panzerblitz http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif, then maybe a5 and 6 with higher boost, and some dora types

faustnik
07-20-2005, 09:19 PM
Originally posted by p1ngu666:

for 190 series most important missing is f9 panzerblitz http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif, then maybe a5 and 6 with higher boost, and some dora types

Great call on the panzerblitz rockets P1ng! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I'm not sure about the A5/A6 late, I've been discussing the possibility that they existed with Crump. It seems likely that existing A5/A5s would have recieved later replacement BMW801Ds running at 1.65 ata.

Late Doras would be really interesting. The D-11s had 2 x Mg151s and 2 x Mk108s and more horsepower than the D-9. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Frankyboy,

I think the weight of the additional fuel tank and fixtures is modeled in the A8. That's a great subject to look into though! I'll get the Fw190 Consortium working on it. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

p1ngu666
07-20-2005, 09:40 PM
would a reengines a5 and 6 be any different from a a8 for ingame stuff?

D11- 213E engine, two mk108 in outer wings (i guess with 2 20mm?)

D12 213F engine, hub mk108

D13 mg151 instead of mk108

D14 and 15, Db engines

F9 with 801TS engine

faustnik
07-20-2005, 10:13 PM
Originally posted by p1ngu666:
would a reengines a5 and 6 be any different from a a8 for ingame stuff?


The A5s and A6s are lighter, so they would be really fast, especially in the light fighter configuration (no ETC rack, no outer guns, etc.).

Adding the late war RAF and USAAF stuff with the current LW set and we'd be perfect though. I forgot LW already has the Ta152s. Dora's, Ta's, 109Ks, 262s and He162 already have the LW in great late war shape!

Us Fw190 fanatics would love any of the late super-Doras. After all a couple dozen reached the combat units. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

TheStriker_p51d
07-20-2005, 10:34 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/Torn88/OurGuardianAngel2.jpg ive stolen the xiv from oleg. its flyable now.

Monty_Thrud
07-21-2005, 01:44 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

MEGILE
07-21-2005, 06:05 AM
Ha it seems there are a lot missing from the planesets. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif
If we are going to ask/hope for any more then I guess the emphasis should be on those with no 3D model changes at all, as recent history shows us (P-38L late/ Mustang MKIII) that they are willing to do it.

Faustnik, what would you think of as the most important Focke Wulf(s) missing from the planeset which would require only FM changes?
A7? or A5/A6 with the new engines?
The idea of a more powerful A6... dam that'd kick a$$ http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif
What year did the A6 receive the new engines?
IIRC the A7 was in production end of 1943 untill early 1944 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Ofcourse if the man is going to be convinced, the man will require charts... big ones with flashing lights, and easy to read instructions. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

JG53Frankyboy
07-21-2005, 06:27 AM
well, i think the A5 and A6 are powerfull enough for 1943-1944 scenarios !
flying an A5 with around 690km/h TAS at 6000m in manual propeller mode http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

also these late Doras with thier very small numbers, even smaller than the Ta152H , are not realy necesarry !
but a droptank and some bombs would be weclome -even some SGs (at least the II/SG10)flew Doras in the groundassault role in late 1945 !!

ans sure, a Fw190F armed with Panzerblitz is long wanted here http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
a new Fw190F8(ore9)/PtzBl with Panzerblitz2 (R4M modification !) and the possibility also to carry bombs/droptanks below the fuselage when carrieing the rockets would be the hell http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


about Spitfires:
i realy hope for the Spitfire Mk.XIVe - also Tempest and Mosquito FB.MkVI , sure http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

they will be a blast in VOW2 missiondesign http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
also a 25boost SpitfireXIe would be nice.
my opinion was always change the Spitifre Mk.IXe FM to that 25boost. because the "e" armament is also more 1944 related. and theere would be more difference in these MkIX series.
ORE making a LF.MkXVI (ealry one, without bubble canopy) out of the Mk.VIII modell.
give it the 25boost and the gyro gunsight http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
for 1944 late.

And some bombs for the LF.MkVb and F.MkVc would be VERY welcome !


about the Fw190A8:
my tests are old, and so i dont know exactly how it is in 4.01.
but in the past, the only Fw190 with that longer range, mantained by that 115liters tank, was the Fw190F8. all Fw190As had the same range - so, no 115 tank http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

JG53Frankyboy
07-21-2005, 06:56 AM
short test:
with 25% fuel and 100% power (auto)
A4
A8
F8
have all the same flight time ~18minutes till tank is empty............
so it looks like the "special" range ability of the F8 was lost in one of the last patches http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

MEGILE
07-21-2005, 07:04 AM
I agree Frankboy, I think new Doras are not essential at the moment.
So for the Focke Wulf the consensus seems to be Panzerblitz.. but presumably this would need 3D model changes? I would think that means we are less likely to get it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif
That's why the suggestion of A6 with new engines and A7 are good because they only require FM changes. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif
I guess it comes down to the most relevant models which are missing + only require FM changes. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif
After all.. how many years have you been waiting for Panzerblitz? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

But my personal most important fix is, remove the Bombrack when removing outer cannons on the Anton 4,5 and 6. The drag from the bombrack means its better to actually keep the weapons installed. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif
The MG-151s are good enough that I don't need 4 of them on the A6. I'd take the performance increase of the firepower anyday http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

JG53Frankyboy
07-21-2005, 07:18 AM
Fw190A-7 : i realy couldnt tell you ANY difference it should have to the in game Fw190A-8 . not FM , not 3D related.


well, my bets as !flyable! planes comming in the August/september update are:
Spitfire F.Mk XIVe
Mosquito FB.Mk VI
J2M3
Ju88A-4
CW-21
MC.200
MC.202
MC.205

i have my doubts about Tempest and Do335.

we will see.............................

MEGILE
07-21-2005, 07:20 AM
hmm interesting, I would have assumed Tempest over Spitfire XIV... but then I'm just speculating.
Can't wait for Ju-88 personaly.. gonna run some coops and have p1ngu has my gunner http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

faustnik
07-21-2005, 10:57 AM
Originally posted by Megile:
I agree Frankboy, I think new Doras are not essential at the moment.
So for the Focke Wulf the consensus seems to be Panzerblitz.. but presumably this would need 3D model changes? I would think that means we are less likely to get it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif
That's why the suggestion of A6 with new engines and A7 are good because they only require FM changes. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif
I guess it comes down to the most relevant models which are missing + only require FM changes. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif
After all.. how many years have you been waiting for Panzerblitz? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

But my personal most important fix is, remove the Bombrack when removing outer cannons on the Anton 4,5 and 6. The drag from the bombrack means its better to actually keep the weapons installed. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif
The MG-151s are good enough that I don't need 4 of them on the A6. I'd take the performance increase of the firepower anyday http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Megile,

I'd have to say the F9 would be the most important Fw190 addition. With a rocket loadout of panzerblitz or these monstershttp://pages.sbcglobal.net/mdegnan/_images/Fw%20190%20F-8%20with%2021cm%20launcher.jpg
and the BMW801TS powerplant, the F9 would be a big improvement in the Jabo department.

The no outer guns with no etc rack is not going to happen. I've send Oleg a bunch of stuff on it twice and both times recieved polite replies that the difference from the existing versions is too small to warrant the work it would require.

An Fw190A4 fully rated at 1.42ata@2700rpm labeled as "Fw190A4 West" would be great but, might be a little dominant in '42 servers. Overall, the Fw190 set in PF is great, I have no complaints. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

MEGILE
07-21-2005, 11:08 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Have you already emailed Oleg regarding the Panzerblitz?

faustnik
07-21-2005, 11:16 AM
Oh yeah, got a "maybe".

Xiolablu3
07-21-2005, 11:32 AM
Remember that the Spit 9 still compares favourably with the later war planes now, only top speed lets it down.

Oleg has to think of the balance of the game online.

Do you not think a later spit would be just TOO uber? Maybe if we got this then Me262 would be allowed on servers again.

After all, KI84C, Me262 etc late war planes are hardly ever used online.

The Spit 5 and 9 balances well with the FW190A, 190D, Me109K, KI84B, LA7, Yak91945 and so on.

Nevertheless I'd love to see it in flight in the game.

faustnik
07-21-2005, 11:36 AM
Do you not think a later spit would be just TOO uber?

No. The Dora is faster on the deck and still has the roll advantage.

MEGILE
07-21-2005, 11:47 AM
Spit XIV Uber?
hmm no
Competitive? yes
Hard to kill? possibly?

But then it should be.. the Plane had great performance, especialy at high altitude... I don't doubt that few could climb with the XIV.

Put it this way, myself and Fish and Leadspitter used to fly COOPs 8 vs. 8 realistic matchups including

P-51D vs. FW-190A8
Spitfire IXc vs. FW-190A6
FW-190D9 vs.YAK-3

Focke Wulfs never lost, and infact I don't believe myself or Fish were ever shot down. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Point is if Spitfire IXe can be dominated by the A6, the D9 has no problem, be sure.

lbhskier37
07-21-2005, 11:50 AM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Remember that the Spit 9 still compares favourably with the later war planes now, only top speed lets it down.

Oleg has to think of the balance of the game online.

Do you not think a later spit would be just TOO uber? Maybe if we got this then Me262 would be allowed on servers again.

After all, KI84C, Me262 etc late war planes are hardly ever used online.

The Spit 5 and 9 balances well with the FW190A, 190D, Me109K, KI84B, LA7, Yak91945 and so on.

Nevertheless I'd love to see it in flight in the game.

Bring on the XIV. The only way a Spit IX should be able to beat any late war plane is if someone is flying stupidly (and we all know that never happens online lol) I don't even remember the last time I was shot down in a latewar server by a Spit, and I'm sure I must have been doing something dumb to deserve it.

geetarman
07-21-2005, 11:53 AM
It would be great to have these RAF planes, no doubt. Just be careful what you wish for considering only one guy is still working the IL-2 series while the others have moved onto BoB. What happens if the new planes have serious bugs, FM/DM, etc. issues? Will 1C step up to the plate and release more patches to fix them at this late date?

p1ngu666
07-21-2005, 12:23 PM
if the XIV is uber, then so is g10,g6as, and k4, as thats what itll perform like roughly http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

MEGILE
07-22-2005, 08:19 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Xiolablu3
07-22-2005, 09:09 AM
If I am in a spit 9 and come up against most planes, the one second they drop their speed (which they HAVE to at some point) Then you have them, they are defensive and can only run.

I think the Spit is well competative, especially if your airfield is being hammered and speed doesnt matter, just turning.

MEGILE
07-22-2005, 02:26 PM
Its fairly competitive, but not representative of where the RAF was in 1944.
It depends heavily on the pilot too... I've seen fish go 1 vs 1 plenty of times against spits and beat them in a FW. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Slickun
07-22-2005, 03:05 PM
I think the graph from page one shows "assumed" low level speeds of the XIV at 25 lbs boost, which apparently was never used in WW2.

kurfurst said:

Mustang III is fast but underarmed/avarage manouveribilty/poor visibilty,

He got 2 of the 4 correct. Fast and underarmed.

Great vis with the Malcolm hood, which apparently virtually all Mustang III's had. Superb maneuverability at medium to high speeds.

Good try, Buddy.

MEGILE
07-22-2005, 03:13 PM
Yeah, the XIV wasn't ran at 25 boost before VE day, althought I don't know about in CBI.
There are numerous charts for the Spitfire XIV running at 18 boost, but I can only find one for it running at 21 Boost, which was used in 1944.

TheStriker_p51d
07-22-2005, 04:01 PM
Originally posted by Megile:
Its fairly competitive, but not representative of where the RAF was in 1944.
It depends heavily on the pilot too... I've seen fish go 1 vs 1 plenty of times against spits and beat them in a FW. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

isn too hard to do if u fly 190 before megile. u can run from any spit in this game. oleg pwnd us

MEGILE
07-22-2005, 04:27 PM
Ludacris, I know, and I know you know, and you know I know

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Interesting point though, and I can see why FW pilots were more inclined to mix it up with the Spitfires early on.
Especially in an A4 or A6, you can mix it up, and as soon as you detect that the edge is being lost... rads closed, wep on, manual PP http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

HellToupee
07-22-2005, 08:13 PM
yes when flying the d9 i would jump into any furball with spitties the ones that didnt use their turn advantage would die and ones that did i could just wep level off and be outa there in a shot. Even made runs on enemy airfield and just ran off home. Spitty u get stuck in the fight till the end the XIV will change this http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

ImpStarDuece
07-22-2005, 08:43 PM
Having a XIV would allow you control of the DISENGAGEMENT envelope a lot more than it did with Spitifres previously, particularly when you consider that the XIV was in squadron service by March 1944 so it could be around for all those post D-Day scenarios that pop up on HL so often.

That is the one area where LW fighters seem to have had it all over the early Allied birds. They could disengage when things looked too hot to handle, whereas Spitfire, Hurricane, P-40 ect pilots either didn't have the level speed or dive acceleration advantages to break off from a losing fight. It wasn't until the British got the Typhoon into regular service that the LW really had any challenge down low ( on the Western Front anyway).

During the BoB Hurricane and Spitfire pilots both noted that the 109s would perform a nose over into a dive that they, with their float type carburettors, couldn't follow. In the lean in to France the 109s standard evasion tactic was to dive away.

Flash foward to a typical 1943-44 situation and the situation hasn't really improved for Spitfire pilots. While the 109 may not have as large an edge in the dive anymore, the 190 does, the D9 even moreso. At low altitdes the 190 generally out runs, out accelerates and out dives the Spitfire IX.

Put a XIV into the equation though and all of a sudden things are going to change. It will be better in terms of level speed, climb, acceleration in a dive and had better zoom qualities. There was a marginal decrease in stall warning and low level handeling (due to higher trimming requirements), but turning circles apparently remained the same.

An XIV prevents LW planes from simply outspeeding/ out diving the Spitfire, at least initailly. It may alter the balance of a lot of dogfight situations; Spitfire pilots can now follow 109/190s when they choose to disengage and hope to have a reasonable chance of scoring a kill.

faustnik
07-22-2005, 10:22 PM
Originally posted by Megile:
Interesting point though, and I can see why FW pilots were more inclined to mix it up with the Spitfires early on.
Especially in an A4 or A6, you can mix it up, and as soon as you detect that the edge is being lost... rads closed, wep on, manual PP http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

I would expect the Fw190D9 Mw50 and Spit MkXIV to look a lot like the A6 vs. MkIX fight as you describe Megile. If the Fw190 pilot is very careful he can use his low altitude speed advantage to escape. It isn't easy, you have to be careful because the margin is small, but, it is enough to allow the Fw190 to extend.

The Bf109s will be crying. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

VW-IceFire
07-22-2005, 10:34 PM
Originally posted by faustnik:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Megile:
Interesting point though, and I can see why FW pilots were more inclined to mix it up with the Spitfires early on.
Especially in an A4 or A6, you can mix it up, and as soon as you detect that the edge is being lost... rads closed, wep on, manual PP http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

I would expect the Fw190D9 Mw50 and Spit MkXIV to look a lot like the A6 vs. MkIX fight as you describe Megile. If the Fw190 pilot is very careful he can use his low altitude speed advantage to escape. It isn't easy, you have to be careful because the margin is small, but, it is enough to allow the Fw190 to extend.

The Bf109s will be crying. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thats also what I expect. Things will be roughly similar.

The XIV was a monster for speeds but generally only at the higher altitudes. Nonetheless, a 20kph boost at all altitudes and a much higher (was it 60kph over the IX at top altitudes) would be a welcome benefit.

Of course a pair of RAF fighters Tempest V and Spitfire XIV co-ordinating would be brutal http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

WarWolfe_1
07-22-2005, 11:41 PM
Know that whatever we get in the next patch, Will not be what you think. Even the MKXIV.



To tell the truth, if BoB is like FB/AEP/PF, I wont buy it.

Fish6891
07-23-2005, 12:29 AM
Originally posted by TheStriker_p51d:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Megile:
Its fairly competitive, but not representative of where the RAF was in 1944.
It depends heavily on the pilot too... I've seen fish go 1 vs 1 plenty of times against spits and beat them in a FW. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

isn too hard to do if u fly 190 before megile. u can run from any spit in this game. oleg pwnd us </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pffft, don't even need to run Luda. Work your throttle and angles right in a FW against a spit and while you dont turn well enough to keep him in your reticle for too long, you can manuever well enough to force all the deflections you need (which is only 1 really), while avoiding his guns. High FW speed is merely there as a nice "Just in Case", you know...for when you screw up http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

RAF needs Tempest to make it competetive against A8s A9s and D9s at low alt, and SpitXIV....well it'll be nice to have a new brand of munchies for us FW regulars to snack upon http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

p1ngu666
07-23-2005, 02:43 AM
fish is probably one of teh few pilots who can use the 190s advantages, most are dead meat or running when a spitfire gets on there 6 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

HellToupee
07-23-2005, 07:10 AM
tempests + spits + stang mkIII http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif give those d9s a challange it will.

JG52Karaya-X
07-23-2005, 07:51 AM
Originally posted by Megile:
Dora better than a Tempest?
The crosses on the nose of Clostermans Tempest say, you is wrong. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

But the roundels on the tail of Hans Dortenmann's plane say the exact opposite http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

JG52Karaya-X
07-23-2005, 08:00 AM
Originally posted by Megile:
http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/wwii/photos/gallery_005/Bf%20109E%20%20of%20Oberleutnant%20Kark%20Fischer% 20-%20Jg%2027.jpg

That's actually an amazing pic.

Fischer attacked Blenheims near Dover - dove down on them and when he passed one of them collided with it... he had to make an emergency landing over England and got captured of course

biggs222
07-23-2005, 08:24 AM
its very nice to talk about what it would be like to have the 14 in AEP but AFAWK we will never see it. so i dont really see the point of all this.... sorry ice i just dont like getting all excited over nothing, know what i mean?

VW-IceFire
07-23-2005, 12:57 PM
Originally posted by biggs222:
its very nice to talk about what it would be like to have the 14 in AEP but AFAWK we will never see it. so i dont really see the point of all this.... sorry ice i just dont like getting all excited over nothing, know what i mean?
At this point we don't know if we will see anything a'tall. We may be left high and dry with no explanation on where all that work went....or we may see it.

I've been hoping and crossing fingers for a few small selections of aircraft for 3 years now. Whats a few more months? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

MEGILE
07-23-2005, 01:11 PM
Originally posted by biggs222:
its very nice to talk about what it would be like to have the 14 in AEP but AFAWK we will never see it. so i dont really see the point of all this.... sorry ice i just dont like getting all excited over nothing, know what i mean?

I'm not going to cry if we don't get the XIV, I just like to poke fun at Spit n00bs and Focke *****s alike. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

MEGILE
07-23-2005, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by Fish6891:

Pffft, don't even need to run Luda.

Fish hax, be sure! I have proofs!

Using this formula Fish discoverd he has the upper edge..

FWAnton+108Pod*(TIR3+(1280*1025))/(SpitIX*n00b)+redteam-omfgwtfFWisovermodelled = 100 points

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

MEGILE
07-23-2005, 01:18 PM
Originally posted by faustnik:


I would expect the Fw190D9 Mw50 and Spit MkXIV to look a lot like the A6 vs. MkIX fight as you describe Megile. If the Fw190 pilot is very careful he can use his low altitude speed advantage to escape. It isn't easy, you have to be careful because the margin is small, but, it is enough to allow the Fw190 to extend.



Yeah the Gap will be closed slightly, but the gap will remain.
Using the Spit XIVs climb rate is when you can say, omfg wtf spit is teh uber.
XIV climbs like a cat with a rocket up its a$$
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

The Anton8 may struggle against the XIV, but the Dora still has the edge.

The Bf109s will be crying.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

skabbe
07-23-2005, 04:09 PM
TheStrikers avatar is insane, it makes me insane. just wanted to say that

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

MEGILE
07-24-2005, 11:01 AM
Yeah its pretty crazy.

i think that is actually Ludacris http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

Komet05
07-24-2005, 03:34 PM
Come on OLEG

We need Spitfire XIV + Tempest + Mosquito!

MEGILE
07-24-2005, 05:34 PM
Wonder what info Oleg is using if he models the XIV... I guess boscome down is propaganda?

TheStriker_p51d
07-24-2005, 11:05 PM
i need a pilot with the face of will farrel.

MEGILE
07-25-2005, 03:46 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

ploughman
07-25-2005, 09:04 AM
i need a pilot with the face of will farrel.

Isn't he using it?

TheStriker_p51d
07-25-2005, 07:40 PM
now that wud be an Uberly overmoddelled plane http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif