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Bearcat99
01-25-2005, 04:27 PM
I know its hard but stop trying to compare this to CFS as far as the interrelationship between the different aircraft go. This sim is totally different and you cannot judge how correct or incorrect the performance of aircraft are by looking at CFS models.

Also.. stop looking for the quick fix... it is a long drawn out process but one that will reward you greatly in the future. No matter how "good" you think you are now.. and how wrong these FMs "must be" (after all..... I was a killer on the other side of town.....) expect to get better over time...... Expect to have your appreciation for this product geometrically increase according to the time you spend flying it. There is a lot that could be here that I would like to see (mind you I am staisfied 98% with the sim...) like the weather thing so many CFS guys mention.. the maps.... and some other stuff that niether sim has.... but this product is great. I dont know how others feel but for me it is the most enjoyable piece of software I have ever spent my money on..... without a doubt..... even at full price for the whole shebang from IL2 to PF... it is well worth it..... to me.

So... I gues all I am saying is give the sim a chancve before you start to get frustrated with it..... like all the guys who were saying it was garbage because certain planes had no retractable gear... or they couldnt get off carrier decks..... even reviewers did this so dont dffeel bad or stuipid. Just hang in and wait and see...........

I can almiost gaurantee that out of all the newcomers here who are on the fence at the moment.. 95% of you will be diehard rabid fans in two months...... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Remember its all about the fun.... but here... you have to fall off the horse a few times before you can shoot from the saddle.

SeaFireLIV
01-25-2005, 04:34 PM
Can`t disagree with that. I always find it amazing when people pop up slamming down PF/IL2 because they can`t raise the landing gear or read the manual/Readme to see why the plane won`t move off the Carrier! I mean is the CFS crowd carried by the hand in everything? Just have a little PATIENCE and stop firing from the proverbial hip.

Anyway, main point is, it`s a simulation designed to give you an insight into WWII. It`s not a get up and go arcade game (unless you take the `easy` settings that is! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

LEXX_Luthor
01-25-2005, 04:45 PM
The value of FB and CFS is they build value over time--FB through the original Developers and 3rd Party content makers, CFS through the independent modders. Same value will build with PF I expect. That is one similarity between the sims I guess.

Anyway, we will still have Windows, we will lose nothing http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Supr
01-25-2005, 04:46 PM
Once upon a time this forum was full of mature minded people that could discuss their, sometimes very different, viewpoints with only minor arguments, and most of those were still good-natured and more funny than mean. Now, it€s just like any other game forum with flame battles between the happy and the not so happy. But hey, a flame city can be entertaining too I guess.

lkemling
01-25-2005, 05:37 PM
I remember a year or so back when just the mention of one of the CFS series would bring down a torrent of pure flames on any poor soul foolish enough to attempt comparing the two sims.
But then even now noob's as some prefer calling the young or beginning flight simmers were also hammered for asking what some felt were oft repeated simplistic questions.

To those I must say REMEMBER THERE WAS A TIME WHEN YOU DIDN'T KNOW S***T EITHER!! and were looking for help and hopefully friendly advice from the experts.

georgeo76
01-25-2005, 05:43 PM
Good Post BC! I remember being an avid CFS2 guy. And when I tried the IL2 demo... I hated it. By the time I gave IL2 another shot it was in it's final patch and I only got it because I was bored one day and I already had every other game on the Wall-Mart shelf worth playing.

I had a few misconceptions and problems making the transition.

1. All the screen shots I looked @ had the speed bar and Hud messages, so I thought IL2 was an arcade game.

2. While the cockpits of IL2 are light-years ahead of even CFS3, I was disappointed that the gauges were difficult to read, sometimes non-functioning, and partially or totally hidden. ( I still don't like that)

3. I hated being a NooB all over again.

4. Most of the AC were foreign to me in every since of the word, and I was unable to 'play for the home team' like I had done in CFS3 (I guess that's not so much of a problem anymore)

ROTC4612
01-25-2005, 05:55 PM
I used to be a die hard CFS fan, i used to count down the days until the next release. After playing IL2/PF im never going back ever.
When I first played IL2 it was horrible (I couldnt get off the ground http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ) Over time I got better and better and now im never going back to CFS. So all you newcomers, give it a chance will ya?!

heywooood
01-25-2005, 06:11 PM
well - it is the participation of the developers and modelers after the fact, that impressed me the most. These guys created a tremendous flight sim and then talked to their community about it and made adjustments and added more good stuff to it - free...based on that public interraction...unbelieveable.

That being said - their participation on these boards has diminished greatly, due in no small part to the whining I think...but at least their work behind the scenes continues - and improvements are ongoing inspite of some attitudes as they are expressed here at times.

This character alone makes this the best software of its kind - or of any kind for that matter, and I believe that alot of the trademark issues and other minor bugs will be worked out over time. But then I try to be optimistic.

Capt._Tenneal
01-25-2005, 09:10 PM
Wise words, Bearcat. I'd like to add to the CFS crowd also the Jane's WW II Fighters, EAW, B-17: The Mighty Eighth, Rowan's people too, or any previous sim for that matter since the transition period and comparisons to their beloved product take similar steps.

Badsight.
01-25-2005, 09:54 PM
gotta hand it to them , they have been slyly ****ging off FB/PF with their threads for like a month now

staying power that is

& its source ? envy of course

i LOL after i tried CFS3 for the first time , like how could you get excited over such a waste of a game when theres FB/PF

VF15_Muto
01-25-2005, 10:17 PM
Believe me, I don't post to this board to slam PF, and I have not done that. If you view all of my posts, I point out the positives and negatives of both PF and CFS2.

I read and post to this board because I bought the product, tried it for an extended period, did not find it to my liking, and am interested to follow the journey of discovery that sim consumers have for their sim of choice ... the few remaining die-hards in CFS2 are still on this journey with that sim.

What I do commonly do on this board is respond to many of the slams, misleading statements, and incorrect assertions about CFS2 that so regularly get posted here ... and this only in case there are other PF consumers out there like me who are looking for a different piloting experience along the lines of what my squad does. And of course to educate ... we all want educated folks to fly with, right? Our squad is not, and never has been, a Zone squad. When we fly online, we fly via direct IP, and it is only a trusted group of 19 sim pilots who have known each other and flown together for years, so there is no issue of hacked models or a thirst to score the most kills as was the common Zone experience. It is about immersion and fun for us, and we've nixed that problem unique to CFS2 in the bud completely.

As for the relative realism of flight models, which is the most common 'slam' of PFers against CFS2 ... how would anyone know? Have you flown these planes? I agree the CFS2 stock aircraft are inaccurately modeled ... and the reason I know is because the open source code of CFS2 allows you to install a test panel to measure in-flight performance and compare that to the actual historical parameters established by the manufacturer and verified by the air arm that deployed the aircraft in question. The .air file spreadsheets in CFS2 allow you to create graphs which display performance envelopes ... and these can be compared to the same graphs/info generated by the actual aircraft testing done in the 40s and 50s. PF has nothing of the sort that I'm aware of, so I don't know if they're realistic or not. I do know that 1% CFS2 aircraft are incredibly accurate with more dynamic characteristics than PF aircraft appear to have, and 1%-spec aircraft are the only a/c our squadron flies for precisely that reason.

There are many things I find extremely enjoyable about PF. And there are several areas where PF is superior .... just not in the most important ones (for me), which is why I shelved it and am dedicated to CFS2.

What I do share with die-hard PFers is the hope that ALL PC-based sim pilots get as much enjoyment and immersion from their product of choice as we die-hard CFS2-ers do.

S~!
VF15_Muto

Badsight.
01-25-2005, 11:01 PM
have fun with your "Hit-Boxes"

you cant compare the 2 sims . . . .

T_O_A_D
01-25-2005, 11:13 PM
I guess I was lucky, I had only played CFS1 for about 4 months when I got ahold of the IL2 demo. I immedetly began saving money for a rig that would run it,. and toyed with the CFS series for ammusment and to learn squad tactics in the mean time. With in my first year of flying I had the rig and the game. Once I got TIR I forgot about CFS.

Bearcat99
01-25-2005, 11:17 PM
Im not talking about you per se Muto.. just any new flyers.. I hate the term noob.... I just felt it should be said.. if you feel the way you feel thats your right and I cant or wont rag you for it.. I just feel that many folks dont give this sim a chance beforethey start to tear it down..

heywooood
01-25-2005, 11:38 PM
Well - I know it has been said before - but..

Why do some people hang around here, badmouthing 1c and Oleg and FB/PF over and over...instead of just making a point and going away. I mean, if you dont like it - go do something else, no one is stopping you. But to just keep coming in here and ****ging away all the time is just weak and sad.

Obviously there is something to this sim that makes you come back to it. Maybe it is just a matter of learning a trick or two and unlocking some new aspect of this sim. Or maybe the other products just dont have enough to keep you away... the Ms series has some aspects that are appealing but some things about them are flat out lame.

This sim has a few issues too that need tweaking or are maybe just beyond its 4-5 year old engine now, but at least it is constantly being updated. And BoB is coming soon...maybe you hang around poking away because you realize that is is the best thing going....that the old Rowan engine will be same ol same ol' and that Ms next combat sim will be CFS revisited....sure you can pay and pay and pay for clouds then topography then individual planes then yadyaydyada.... no thanks.
So I guess we will keep hearing from these lost ones - denying that this is the best sim, shouting to the wind that Ms is better, and hating the fact that they just cant enjoy anything properly. Whatever...

And just so you know - I like FS2004 - well - some things about it. But I dont go to their forums or sit here and routinely bash it for the things I wish it had.

Howie A
01-26-2005, 12:34 AM
I appreciate your post too Bear, its a gentler admonition appealing for more patience and open-mindedness. I enjoyed CFS2 for well over a year and felt it was worth its money 10 times over for the enjoyment I derived, but like most here I don't fly it anymore because to me FB/PF is simply superior.

I think Muto makes a legitimate point about 1% models because it appears on paper nothing can beat their accuracy. I always flew their a/c from the beginning and thoroughly enjoyed their characteristics, but that was based on my feel compared to all others available for the sim. I enjoy the feel of FB FMs even better... and so it goes.

This forum is probably not much different than others in zealously defending its sim - a little tolerance would help tho. But Haywooood's point is really the bottom line: if people want to come here without the intent to become seriously involved with FB/PF, why participate.

VF15_Muto
01-26-2005, 12:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Badsight.:

you cant compare the 2 sims . . . . <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I definitely agree ... one is a full Pacific Theater World War 2 Piloting simulator customizable to your liking, the other is a World War 2 surface attack and aerial combat simulator as per the developer's vision.

Apples and Oranges.

S~!
Muto

x__CRASH__x
01-26-2005, 12:56 AM
So you fly CFS depending on what someone tweaks their FM's to?


http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Capt._Tenneal
01-26-2005, 07:53 AM
I'll happily take the Oranges, please ! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

peteuplink
01-26-2005, 08:59 AM
I actually quite like the CFS series, but I've not played either of them since I got PF and IL2/FB.

99th Obsidian
01-26-2005, 09:43 AM
As a 15 year PC flight sim veteran, the one thing that has been consistently true over time is that newer sims are overall better than older sims. Its the nature of the beast. Simulating reality requires alot of computational power. The latest sims are developed with the current/future (LOMAC) PC power in mind. Thus delivering a higher degree of visual realism than older sims. More powerful PC's means the developer can make the FM's more realistic, add more planes, sounds, and features.

Have other sims in a given genre (WWII) had more features that YOU liked? Yes. But overall, no other sim currently delivers as much as the IL2 franchise. Janes WWII was great, I really liked the museum GUI and great sound F/X. CFS I&II were good, but I didnt like the online cheating (CFS2 hooked me on the PTO). I couldnt run IL-2 on my 800mhz box. But I made the investment and now 2 PC's later PF runs perfect (actually ran OK on my 1.6 Gateway).

Developers must balance the simulation with playability. To this end PF delivers more than CFS2. Perhaps the 1% FM's in CFS2 are more realistic, but FM at the cost of perfect water, shadows, reflections and other visual cues, no thank you. Not to be crude, but no matter how good your lover is in bed, she/he is not worth staying with if you can't stand looking at him/her. Ours and sim developers quest is the same. We both want the best possible balance of visual, realism, and playability. For WWII now, thats FB+AEP+PF. Looking forward to BOB (and upgrading my PC http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif).

PS: I tried CFS3, couldnt get past the lower quality graphics. But you won't find me on the CFS3 forums trolling. Over 400 on HL last night, nuf said. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Iron_Hand1
01-26-2005, 09:49 AM
I am one of the "Noobs" that has come over from 3 yrs of CFS2 and the zone. I actually tried IL-2 fb over a year ago and just didn't really like it much, so I gave up. But when it comes to PF, I'm am and have always been addicted to the Pacific Theatre and this is the place I will probably be for the next 3 years.
To me there is no comparison, I like PF much better. Yes, its harder to learn to play, and yes when I ask questions I don't always get an answer or I get slammed a little. But I think that is part of it all, and I am really enjoying being a "noob" again. From the QMB to the FMB (either of which I can't use yet, lol) to the DF vs. Coop missions, to the ability to combine IL-2 + FB + AEP + PF I thinks its great!
So when you get a chance, give a shout out to the "noob" and a little advise if you feel like it. Oh, and in about a year (LOL) watch your six!

IronHand1

Nubarus
01-26-2005, 09:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lkemling:
To those I must say REMEMBER THERE WAS A TIME WHEN YOU DIDN'T KNOW S***T EITHER!! and were looking for help and hopefully friendly advice from the experts. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I read the manual/reference card and the readme files before asking questions on a public forum.
That way you don't have to ask for the obvious all the time.

So no, there was no time I didn't know S***T either and looked for friendly advice from the experts with questions that are answered in the documents that come with the game and each patch.

Besides a lot of these posts are posted in such a way that most people are already anoyed after reading halfway through it.

I find people who don't feel the need to find things out by simply reading the instructions just plain lazy, not to mention that all the effort that was put into providing all this written information is totally wasted on people like that.

I used to write procedures and instructions for the job I was doing so new people had something to help them to do their job more easy.
It was all in digital format, well indexed and it even had a search engine in it.
Well, over half of these people didn't read any of it and where bugging me constantly with questions that where explained in the documentation.

So from my point of view it was a complete waste of my time to write the d@mn thing.

To them I say, put a little effort in youself and read the manual/readme before asking the obvious.

I don't mind explaining things into more detail but questions like "My gear won't work", "I cannot take off from a carrier", "My gunsight is shifted to the left" or "My lights don't work" is showing that the manual/readme hasn't even been opend once.

I just call that flat out lazy and I truly believe it's better to tell them to look it up in the manual then to chew it all out for them here.

They might learn that they cannot go through life expecting everybody else is going to make sure they get a ride on a fluffy pillow from the crib to the coffin with a silver spoon up their @ss.

SeaFireLIV
01-26-2005, 11:01 AM
There`s no doubt about it that this rash of strange complaints have only really appeared since PF (and December when more new guys got it as a prezzy).



The general line of whines are different in the norm ie:

1. Complaints concerning operating the aircraft ("Can`t raise gears. Where`s the `on` switch!")
2. Inability to be patient. A true Pacific war pilot had to be patient, surely more than any other theatre.
3. Rude. An amazing lack of politeness.
4. Failure to think they may be doing something wrong.
5. Complaints about FMs seem not to be about accuracy, but that it`s not `easy` enough.
6. A `jealous`? Attraction from the CFS lobby has appeared. Some posters seem to be posting to merely try and bash IL2/PF over and over with some incredibly untrue accusations.

It seems releasing PF has released a rather immature type of whiner. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Capt._Tenneal
01-26-2005, 11:30 AM
It's pre-patch doldrums. Everyone's on edge waiting for the "big add-on". http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

LEXX_Luthor
01-26-2005, 12:02 PM
Agree with Nubarus, gamers don't read Manuals. Although I think PF documentation cold be better, maps are too hard to make and so are somewhat limited, Chocks and Manual Landing Gear should have been Defualt mapped, and ubi Forced the releace of PF with too little offline content. Most of these issues will be dealt with over time, increasing the Value of PF (and FB too). I can write a book on how FB has gotten better since merged with PF. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

SeaFire:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>There`s no doubt about it that this rash of strange complaints have only really appeared since PF <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Or, Oleg is finding success with PF, reaching wide audience, and so PF naturally must experience a period of time of Jealous attention from the Microsoft Corporation, like gas passing through your intestine. Just let the gas pass and enjoy the warm sweetness. We will still have Windows, we will lose nothing.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

KarayaEine
01-26-2005, 12:20 PM
Yeah, what bear said!!

This ain't your daddy's MS product. (thank heavens for that)

Johann

dcunning30
01-26-2005, 02:03 PM
dang!

was my original post the cause for all this backlash? granted, i made subsiquent posts about cfs2, because that's what i know about. there's nothing wrong with that. fact is, i bought pf and joined this mb for a reason, and it's not to go about dumping on pf.

sheesh!

rummyrum
01-26-2005, 02:04 PM
The trashers come and go always have. This is not a new thing nor indicitive of anything. Folks are allowed opinions so lets just drop the chest thumping a get on with it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

actionhank1786
01-26-2005, 04:16 PM
also to all you CFS newcomers, hi i'm Aaron

steve_v
01-26-2005, 07:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
If I show you a picture of a really cute kitten, do you think you could lighten up? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Heres mine. Might not be cute, but is the only living cat that continues to jump on my head at 3 AM every morning.

http://home.earthlink.net/~viner45/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/cj.jpg

Chuck_Older
01-26-2005, 08:03 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

I don't have any cats. I must confess that I go looking for kitty pics because they crack me up

here's one you'll like, Steve:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/steroids.jpg

actionhank1786
01-26-2005, 10:37 PM
Bearcat makes me all warm inside

VF15_Muto
01-26-2005, 11:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by x__CRASH__x:
So you fly CFS depending on what someone tweaks their FM's to?


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, I don't fly CFS2 depending on anything. I just fly it. When I do, I fly only 1% aircraft or aircraft my squad has built with the 1% spreadsheet, because those FMs are verifiably accurate to historical performance parameters.

But by fully customizeable, I mean that you can tailor it to your liking. For instance, we wanted to recreate the Doolittle flight, but the 1% B-25 didn't have enough fuel. So we simply created a 'Doolittle B-25' by adding extra fuel tanks and reduced weight for taking off the hornet by removing guns, just like the real Doolittle B-25s. That's one of the things that makes it a great sim ... the possibilities are very expansive.

But by customizable, I wasn't referring to just the aircraft (although yes, that's a nice feature) ... I meant the add-on bases (I have 324), the add-on ships (Akagi, Hiryu, Shokaku, Zuikako, Ryujo, Lady Lex, Saratoga, dozens of battleships, cruisers, etc), the add-on mesh terrain ... just all makes for great flexibility in what you want your sim to be.

S~!
Muto

Bearcat99
01-26-2005, 11:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VF15_Muto:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by x__CRASH__x:
So you fly CFS depending on what someone tweaks their FM's to?


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, I don't fly CFS2 depending on anything. I just fly it. When I do, I fly only 1% aircraft or aircraft my squad has built with the 1% spreadsheet, because those FMs are verifiably accurate to historical performance parameters.

But by fully customizeable, I mean that you can tailor it to your liking. For instance, we wanted to recreate the Doolittle flight, but the 1% B-25 didn't have enough fuel. So we simply created a 'Doolittle B-25' by adding extra fuel tanks and reduced weight for taking off the hornet by removing guns, just like the real Doolittle B-25s. That's one of the things that makes it a great sim ... the possibilities are very expansive.

But by customizable, I wasn't referring to just the aircraft (although yes, that's a nice feature) ... I meant the add-on bases (I have 324), the add-on ships (Akagi, Hiryu, Shokaku, Zuikako, Ryujo, Lady Lex, Saratoga, dozens of battleships, cruisers, etc), the add-on mesh terrain ... just all makes for great flexibility in what you want your sim to be.

S~!
Muto <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is a nice feature too... I have been hoping to get at least some skinnable objects so we could create personal aquad bases in the mission builder. All you need are some skinnable signs.... create a template and build your missions from that template. CFS has some very good features... and CS2 is definitely the best of the three... I just like the grphics and FMs.... and the flying in FB 3.0 better. It is nice open sourced with a goup of guys you know and trust... but as a solo flyer it is just no fun. At least it wasnt for me... and with the squad I was with in CFS everytime we would get waxed the CO would say..."Oh they must be flying mods......" or something like that... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif which to me is a turn off.. I prefer not even having to thnk about that and being able to know that I was simply outflown or unlucky.

The sounds and weather could be better here too.... but what we have ist bad... in fact I saw a post by Oleg I think previewing some new clouds in an up coming patch..... they looked real good.....

initjust
01-26-2005, 11:34 PM
Bearcat,

For what it's worth I think the way you started this thread was well done, in good taste and a good thing to do.

I think Lakota was off the mark with his post.

LEXX_Luthor
01-26-2005, 11:57 PM
*bump* for Bear http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

cwojackson
01-27-2005, 12:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by heywooood:


Why do some people hang around here, badmouthing 1c and Oleg and FB/PF over and over...instead of just making a point and going away. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I can't speak for anyone but myself, but me, I'm hanging around waiting for the rest of the product I purchased. By 1CMaddox's own comments, at least one CD worth of data.

LEXX_Luthor
01-27-2005, 12:35 AM
Everybody here is waiting on Patches, and...

...most are not suffering mental Depression from waiting, so...

ReligiousZealot
01-27-2005, 01:06 AM
Very well said! I am greatly impressed, few people are given such an ability to speak in such a way. Bearcat99 is endowed with the ability to speak the truth, no BS, and handles himself in such a manner as to welcome vets of other sims to this community, even in the face of such rocky times (the mixed feelings about the lack of some airplanes in PF, etc.). I came from AOE, to the MSFS series, then hopped on the boat with Il2. At first I didn't like it, but going back to it again later I was surprised to find it was quite excellent. I made a dumb move and traded it in for BF1942 expecting similar immersion, but was sadly let down. I recently came back to the series with the release of PF and have plans of getting the IL2 Gold pack as soon as I can find it. The fact that this community has always been friendly and willing to lend a hand to its members is what makes it so great. Bearcat99 is the pinnacle of this type of person, exercising great patience with noobs, and never closing his arms to welcome them in. I agree with you 100%, Bearcat99.

SeaFireLIV
01-27-2005, 03:20 AM
wow. Now that`s what I call angry. I`ve NEVER seen Bearcat get this mad before. Well, Bearcat, hope you shake him off at last!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/Shock.jpg
Bearcat99 let rip!

wintergoose
01-27-2005, 04:04 AM
I compleately agree with you Bearcat99
Why waiting and wating for always somthing new?
Be satisfied with what you have got so fare.
It is enough for me in this sim for yars without anny new plans yet.
Offcause I want new plans. I like the rest of you will alvays have someting that is not availabel.
But I hope this sim vill newer end. The history it is baced on are eksactly that, HISTORY.
And if you have a hobby as mine, plains fro WWII
OK its history and cant be chanched.
What I hopes for is more campains baced on nearly real histtory.