PDA

View Full Version : Mosquito



darkhorizon11
09-03-2006, 11:32 PM
I'm kind of annoyed with the community reaction to this aircraft!?

Everyone screamed bloody murder for this aircraft to be included yet, once it was I never heard a peep. Given there were no more complaints, but no thank yous either.

In any case, can someone throw up some links for some historical skins and missions. I'd like to play around with this plane a bit!

CHDT
09-04-2006, 01:35 AM
Simple.

Nobody uses it, at least online, as the Mossie in this game is nothing more than a big target.

I still don't understand why, for the bombers, the developers don't choose the fastest variants, to give more tactical options for the bombers online pilots.

tigertalon
09-04-2006, 03:25 AM
Originally posted by CHDT:
Simple.

Nobody uses it, at least online, as the Mossie in this game is nothing more than a big target.

I still don't understand why, for the bombers, the developers don't choose the fastest variants, to give more tactical options for the bombers online pilots.

I can recall the developers claim that he rather modelled the version with some guns in front...

OD_79
09-04-2006, 03:54 AM
Yeah he might have got one with guns up front but it's the earliest possible one, with no rockets and only option is bombs...it's an easy target...unless you know what you are doing and you have a wingman...who also knows what he's doing!

ImpStarDuece
09-04-2006, 04:41 AM
Originally posted by CHDT:
Simple.

Nobody uses it, at least online, as the Mossie in this game is nothing more than a big target.

I still don't understand why, for the bombers, the developers don't choose the fastest variants, to give more tactical options for the bombers online pilots.

I LOVE THE MOSSIE!

I fly it almost exclusively when its available. Particularly on WarClouds, but almost anywhere else that it crops up. I probably fly upwards of 20 Mossie sorties a week, compared to about 5-10 fighter sorties.

It is fast, just not as fast as some people expect it to. Put it in a mid 1943 scenario and its about the fastest Western Allied fighter below 2,000 m / 6000 feet, being pipped just slightly by the P-38J (a matter of a few mph at most). But it has those massive radiators, so it can SUSTAIN a higher speed for much longer than any other Allied fighter prior to the P-51B/C and P-38L. Its just a shade slower than the La-5 and La-5F, and faster above about 4000m.

Against 109s its faster than anything up to a 109G6AS.

190s are more of a problem, the A5 has about 10-15 mph on it at most heights, except for a few narrow altitude bands around FTH where they are about even.

I'll do, an average, about 4-5 sorties in it online before I get intercepted, and even then I stand about a 30% chance of giving the fighter the slip (and about a 10% chance of shooting it down or scaring it off), even against late war uber birds like 190A-9s, D-9s and 109Ks.

My advice for Mossie pilots is this:

1. PLAN. Plan your ingress/egress to the target area so you spend the minimum amount of time in hostile territory. This isn't a fighter sortie. Don't dawdle, know exactly what you ware doing.

2. Make your bombs runs headed towards friendly territory. Circle around to a point where you can make an run at the target and then run away fast, without having to make any course alterations that will was off speed.

3. Speed is your friend. The Mossie will cruise at 280-290 IAS at 6000 feet with a full bomb and fuel load. Thats quite a high cruise speed, so make sure you maintain it. Make all your runs at high speed, don't dawdle. Full throttle heights for the Mossies are around 5000-6000 feet and 13,000 - 15,000 feet. Remember there is a band between 6000 and 8000 where the blowers switch and you lose some speed.

My general modus operandi is like this.

*Cruise at 5800 feet, 280-290 IAS on an oblique track to the target. (Rads closed, PP at 95%, 90-95% throttle)

*Circle to the back/side of the target area before making your run.

*Point the nose down slightly, go to 100% throttle and 100% PP, close your rads and descend at 1000 feet/minute unit in sight of the target area and doing about 320-340 mph and at about 2000-3000. A descending turn is good if you haven positioned yourself corectly for the egress.

*Once you have your target sighted, make sure you are pointed back towards friendly territory or preferred direction of egress.

*Dive on your target with full throttle, wind it up to about 380-400, ignore the shaking, bomb your target and high tail it out of there as fast, low and as straight as you can manage (I tend to get killed by invisible tree lines more often than I do by enemy fighters).

The Mossie will maintain almost 345 mph on the deck running all out if you trim right and handle it gently. It can stay at high speed for a long time though, so make sure your get well into friendly territory before letting up on the gas.

A good Mossie run should be clean, fast, and highly paranoid. You should run from the target area with flak and fighers chasing you, but if you've planned well than things should work out well for you.

Apart from pure speed, I've found that a hard climbing turn with combat flaps is one of the few decent defensive manouvers available to the Mossie, provided its done very violently. Sometimes other pilots don't expect a bomber to go vertical. Dump speed and attempt to force an overshoot, then dive for the deck and see if you can escape. Most pilots tend to be a little gun-shy from getting in fron of 4 Hispanos and 4 .303s.

The only other thing that works (and did historically as well) is a barrel roll right on the deck followed by either a hard turn or an up and down bunt to force a yo-yo or a defensive manouver. But this is more difficult and rarely works against a seasoned or wary pilot. A Mossie isn't exactly meat on the table to a marauding fighter, but realistically, you shouldn't expect to survive if they catch you.

Ideally, a +18lbs Merlin 25 variant would be nice instead of the +18 lbs Merlin 23 variant we have now. With about 200 hp more per engine, we'd get 10-15 mph more speed on the deck, or 15-25 mph more speed if it was modelled with the multi-ejector exhausts. Mossies w/ Merlin 25's could do 355 mph with 2 100 gallon (120 US gallon) drop tanks on the wings and aprrently could push 375-380 mph on the dec when boostsd to +25lbs. Hell, Mossies with No2 were doing 395mph at 3000 feet. Now THATS what I call a fast jabo!

Brain32
09-04-2006, 06:09 AM
This is silly, we have a 1942 Mosquito and everybody flying in 1945 is dissapointed with it, wow, suprise, suprise http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif
Fly it in 1942 and see how it's doing, find me a 1942 plane faster than Mosquito http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
BTW even in 1944-45 it is still far better option than German bombers which are 1941 PK machines and forced to fly in 1944-45. And when we get the Arado234 I doubt it will be available anywhere even though it will burn like a match and have no forward firing guns...

Hey Duece, how do you aim the bombs, I mean for example in a FW190 I drop just in the moment the bar covers the target, I can't seem to hit anything with the Mosquito http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif Which part of the plane and how do you time it for aiming the bombs?

WOLFMondo
09-04-2006, 08:02 AM
Originally posted by CHDT:
Simple.

Nobody uses it, at least online, as the Mossie in this game is nothing more than a big target.

I still don't understand why, for the bombers, the developers don't choose the fastest variants, to give more tactical options for the bombers online pilots.

Used in a 1942 setting its bloody fast and king of the hill as far as a fast bomber is concerned.

Trouble is online they are not used like IRL. IRL you didn't have a map with one set of targets which the enemy knew would be attacked. They could be going anywhere in Europe, close to the ground and would fly on a course which took them round German radar, fighters would have to be vectored in to them on the Mosquito's route. Online its completely different. IRL they didn't have F6 either which seems to plague many servers.

XyZspineZyX
09-04-2006, 08:38 AM
Not to mention most online servers dont allow vulching, which is a darned shame considering those arent 8 pitot tubes it has in its nose...

HellToupee
09-04-2006, 08:56 AM
Originally posted by Brain32:
BTW even in 1944-45 it is still far better option than German bombers which are 1941 PK machines and forced to fly in 1944-45.

well no, its defense was speed, in 1944/5 planeset its currently just a bit faster than a spitfire, powerful foward firing guns but insuffient manoverability to bring them to bear on anything other than a bomber, and its not particulary robust ither unlike a certian ju88 plus its bomb load is same as single engined fighters. Ju88 bf110 and even stuka wind up far better options in those servers because if you are attacked you have a small chance with the rear gunners vs no chance.

The only mosquito that would really do well on late war df servers is the b.xvi


I can recall the developers claim that he rather modelled the version with some guns in front...

i think he was referring to the current one we have ingame eg it still having exhaust shrouds wrong engines etc

VW-IceFire
09-04-2006, 10:45 AM
Originally posted by darkhorizon11:
I'm kind of annoyed with the community reaction to this aircraft!?

Everyone screamed bloody murder for this aircraft to be included yet, once it was I never heard a peep. Given there were no more complaints, but no thank yous either.

In any case, can someone throw up some links for some historical skins and missions. I'd like to play around with this plane a bit!
Prangster just finished a campaign for the Mossie. Try it out here: http://mission4today.com/index.php?name=Downloads&file=details&id=1172

I haven't tried it yet but I imagine is quite good.

As for the Mossie...I was totally disappointed with it. We've got the 1942 version...with the lowest engine boost possible and the least number of armament options available. Instead of having RPs for Norway operations and higher boosts so it can actually survive...we've got the slow one which can outrun exactly nothing at all. And to top it off...its damage model is rather light so any hits and it seems to break right apart.

I was ready to start flying the Mossie big time...but its a bit of a disappointment. Was not given the treatment it deserved...and I hope that the plane is done proper justice in the future.

JG53Frankyboy
09-04-2006, 11:20 AM
yes, the Mosquito FB.VI looks like a little bit to slow for 1943 action (didnt came the FB.VI in service spring 1943 ?! ) - and sure for 1944/45 missions.
actually thats weird because the maps we have to use them are later ones..............


im looking forward to some late 1943 action over Burma (most propably this will be a fantastic looking map !). with Spit F.Vc/LF.Vb and Hurricane IIc (im realy missing the bombs for it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif ) as fighters.
and the Ki-43-II_KAI and Ki-61_Otsu (as Ki-44 "replacement") as eneym fighters.
also if it will be COOP/single player some Ki21s as canon fodder http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
it will be a lot of fun........... alwasy having Gregory Peck in my mind in this scenario http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

IIJG69_Kartofe
09-04-2006, 12:01 PM
Originally posted by OD_79:
Yeah he might have got one with guns up front but it's the earliest possible one, with no rockets and only option is bombs...it's an easy target...unless you know what you are doing and you have a wingman...who also knows what he's doing!

How many times must we reapeat that the version we have is a 42 version...

Fly it on WC servers vs 45 planes if you want ... But stop complaining.

IIRC A 44 version with merlins 25 and rokets (available only in 44 on the mossie, sorry but this is an HISTORICAL sim, not crimson skyes, BTW wit teh 46 addon we must doubt http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif ) is comming wit the norway map.

So play the actual mossie in 42 and 43 and stop wining about his perfs in 45!

Wanna dogfight with a light bomber... Laughable!
He will take what he deserve.

Wanna make fast and sharp stikes then fly away, you got your plane, but not in 44-45.

LEBillfish
09-04-2006, 12:05 PM
Online?..................Let me tell you about online. When I see Mossies I clean house on them. Yet not because they're garbage, they are point blank flown wrong and being used in wrong era missions (though bet they did in real life to as you'd use em till you lost em).

You cannot imagine how rediculous it is seeing them be piloted. First off, they have no rear guns so why fly like it does. Second, it's not a turn fighter so why does 90% want to make their run then try and turnfight with me in a FW190 or BF109..........Guess what, I win.

Next, they are set up in missions with assured intercepts........Mosquitoes, in fact no bomber flew directly into fights. Often expected by heavies, planes like Mosquitoes snuck in fast, did their deed then ran........So why do folks think they can slug it out with planes designed to simply kill other planes.

Lastly, when it gets hot they all break in different directions......So guess what, they get picked off 1 by one or if staying in a group they do nothing to cover each other...So you simply start at the back of the line and pick your way through..........

The plane is fine, very possibly just like it was.......It was not some invincible aircraft you all make it out to be. It was a hit and run master......Not a brawler.

Good plane, lousey pilots, and coops not designed for it.........Past that use the advice of ImpStarDuece above, you should be flying that way anywho.....The End.

IIJG69_Kartofe
09-04-2006, 12:10 PM
Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CHDT:
Simple.

Nobody uses it, at least online, as the Mossie in this game is nothing more than a big target.

I still don't understand why, for the bombers, the developers don't choose the fastest variants, to give more tactical options for the bombers online pilots.

Used in a 1942 setting its bloody fast and king of the hill as far as a fast bomber is concerned.

Trouble is online they are not used like IRL. IRL you didn't have a map with one set of targets which the enemy knew would be attacked. They could be going anywhere in Europe, close to the ground and would fly on a course which took them round German radar, fighters would have to be vectored in to them on the Mosquito's route. Online its completely different. IRL they didn't have F6 either which seems to plague many servers. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Aaaabsolutely right...

But ... Try Full real DF servers, NO F6, no padlock!

Some have very good maps, you don't know from what direction comes the strike and after it's too late.

... Exept for the noobs who fly directly from their base to the objective ... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/inlove.gif I love them! Soo crunchy!

AWL_Spinner
09-04-2006, 02:08 PM
I love the Mossie. Sneaking round the back of some opposing base in the cloud and then diving at maximum speed to plaster some unsuspecting oik on the apron with a pair of bombs before heading off home for tea and medals at full speed.....

VW-IceFire
09-04-2006, 02:46 PM
Originally posted by IIJG69_Kartofe:
IIRC A 44 version with merlins 25 and rokets (available only in 44 on the mossie, sorry but this is an HISTORICAL sim, not crimson skyes, BTW wit teh 46 addon we must doubt http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif ) is comming wit the norway map.
It'd be nice if we had that version from 1944 to supplement or compliment the 1942 version. I heard at one point it was coming and then cancelled later on.

HellToupee
09-05-2006, 02:32 AM
Originally posted by LEBillfish:
Online?..................Let me tell you about online. When I see Mossies I clean house on them. Yet not because they're garbage, they are point blank flown wrong

how should they be flown then when they encounter a plane they cannot outrun?



You cannot imagine how rediculous it is seeing them be piloted. First off, they have no rear guns so why fly like it does. Second, it's not a turn fighter so why does 90% want to make their run then try and turnfight with me in a FW190 or BF109..........Guess what, I win.

well often when bounced or caught a pilot will try to live a little bit longer than just make things easy for the shooter, and some times u do actually win, i was forced into a turn fight with 3 109 pilots after they engaged me getting out of a target area, they were so poor i shot 2 down and the 3rd ran out of ammo trying to hit and failing the bomber sized target i was with 108s.



Next, they are set up in missions with assured intercepts........Mosquitoes, in fact no bomber flew directly into fights. Often expected by heavies, planes like Mosquitoes snuck in fast, did their deed then ran........So why do folks think they can slug it out with planes designed to simply kill other planes.
[quote]

they dont they only wish to have a mosquito relevant to most plane sets, not the slowest variant possible, eg merlin 25s and no draggy exhaust shrouds, and a boosted version for late war and rocket racks.

[quote]
Lastly, when it gets hot they all break in different directions......So guess what, they get picked off 1 by one or if staying in a group they do nothing to cover each other...So you simply start at the back of the line and pick your way through..........

how are they supposed to cover each other? by engaging you in a close in dogfight? they are better off to split up and go their own ways atleast that way some can get home alive.



The plane is fine, very possibly just like it was.......It was not some invincible aircraft you all make it out to be. It was a hit and run master......Not a brawler.

yes it was just like the slowest variant of fb mosquito, no one thinks its invincible just they dont want some 1942 version, when its actually a 1943 plane. Its great when used in the 1942 planeset.



Good plane, lousey pilots, and coops not designed for it.........Past that use the advice of ImpStarDuece above, you should be flying that way anywho.....The End.

show us how its done then what are your great successes in it, how do you escape from the 190a5s with only a 30kph advantage over you. At the very least it should have a rocket loadout.

JG53Frankyboy
09-05-2006, 04:30 AM
Originally posted by HellToupee:
................ At the very least it should have a rocket loadout.

that was first used in combat in november 1944 , as i read in the other Mosquito topic...........................
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/3521008874

HellToupee
09-05-2006, 04:49 AM
Originally posted by JG53Frankyboy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HellToupee:
................ At the very least it should have a rocket loadout.

that was first used in combat in november 1944 , as i read in the other Mosquito topic...........................
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/3521008874 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

so?

it was still a load out of that type and used extensivly.

WOLFMondo
09-05-2006, 04:59 AM
Originally posted by Skunk241981:
Not to mention most online servers dont allow vulching, which is a darned shame considering those arent 8 pitot tubes it has in its nose...

Lots do allow it though but its a large target for all those AA guns.

RCAF_Irish_403
09-05-2006, 05:38 AM
It's all about finding your way in to target and planning a way out

R988z
09-05-2006, 06:38 AM
I like to load out my mossie with just the internal bombs to keep drag to a miminmum, then plot out a course that takes me wide around the enemy base, get to around 2000-3000m, turn to face home or whatever the quickest, safest exit is, slam everything to maximum and dive in at maximum speed, drop the bombs on the enemy base and maybe try and take out some AA with the guns and keep it maxed out on the deck. Usually with a bunch of huns on my tail. It's funny to see them just that bit too far out of range and not able to really gain anything on you, eventually they get desperate when their engine starts overheating and start trying to take hopeful distance shots to scare you into a turn, then they overheat, run out of fuel or run out of ammo http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

The big problem is when you get jumped still climbing or in a cruise by a higher FW190 or something, then it's pretty much game over unless the pilot is ****, mostly if caught in that position when I see them diving in for the kill I just bail out after stall spinning the aircraft before even getting hit, I mean I'm dead anyway so might as well get out while I can. Then I can watch from my comfy parachute while the hun goes after the spinning carcas of a dead mosquito, desperate to land some hits to claim the kill. Well can't let them have it that easy can I? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

p1ngu666
09-05-2006, 08:42 PM
Originally posted by darkhorizon11:
I'm kind of annoyed with the community reaction to this aircraft!?

Everyone screamed bloody murder for this aircraft to be included yet, once it was I never heard a peep. Given there were no more complaints, but no thank yous either.

In any case, can someone throw up some links for some historical skins and missions. I'd like to play around with this plane a bit!

it carries the curious distinction of not being sufficently bad enuff to warrent much whining, tho anyone whos actully read much about the mossie, is disapointed in it (and justifiably so)

LStarosta
09-05-2006, 08:44 PM
Originally posted by Skunk241981:
Not to mention most online servers dont allow vulching, which is a darned shame considering those arent 8 pitot tubes it has in its nose...

LOL I like that statement.

LStarosta
09-05-2006, 08:46 PM
Originally posted by p1ngu666:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by darkhorizon11:
I'm kind of annoyed with the community reaction to this aircraft!?

Everyone screamed bloody murder for this aircraft to be included yet, once it was I never heard a peep. Given there were no more complaints, but no thank yous either.

In any case, can someone throw up some links for some historical skins and missions. I'd like to play around with this plane a bit!

it carries the curious distinction of not being sufficently bad enuff to warrent much whining, tho anyone whos actully read much about the mossie, is disapointed in it (and justifiably so) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think it's just a case of double standards, whether intentional or not.

Russian planes, specifically La-7 3xB20, La5FNm LaGGs (though in the case of the latter, the weight issue has been corrected) and other similar types are always modelled very optimistically with the highest available performance figures. Planes such as the Tempest, Mosquito, Fw190's etc etc are all modelled either in their earlier versions or in some other way derated.

Now I'm not calling this a conspiracy, I would just appreciate an explanation as to why that is so.

p1ngu666
09-06-2006, 08:26 AM
yeah http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

HurricaneVictor
09-06-2006, 09:07 AM
Originally posted by Skunk241981:
Not to mention most online servers dont allow vulching, which is a darned shame considering those arent 8 pitot tubes it has in its nose...
Its not vulching its strafing http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Beaufort-RAF
09-13-2006, 01:27 PM
This is silly, we have a 1942 Mosquito and everybody flying in 1945 is dissapointed with it, wow, suprise, suprise

Fly it in 1942 and see how it's doing, find me a 1942 plane faster than Mosquito

Used in a 1942 setting its bloody fast and king of the hill as far as a fast bomber is concerned.

As for the Mossie...I was totally disappointed with it. We've got the 1942 version

How many times must we reapeat that the version we have is a 42 version...

If one more person calls the FBVI a 1942 aircraft I€m going to spontaneously combust! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

They didn't start rolling off the production line until 1943.

They commenced intruder ops in the summer and the first ordinary bomber squadrons (with 2nd TAF) didn't fly their first op until October €˜43.

€˜1942€ was appalling labelling by the developers.

Xiolablu3
09-13-2006, 01:35 PM
Originally posted by CHDT:
Simple.

Nobody uses it, at least online, as the Mossie in this game is nothing more than a big target.

I still don't understand why, for the bombers, the developers don't choose the fastest variants, to give more tactical options for the bombers online pilots.

Geeez, I hate these comments. TRY SOME DIFFERENT SERVERS.

The Mossie is used in the correct year and theatre on decent servers. Its a very fast bomber in 1942/43 and far from useless.

http://www.battle-fields.com/commscentre/showthread.php?t=10543

p1ngu666
09-13-2006, 01:36 PM
FB VI's flew there first op in may iirec http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Beaufort-RAF
09-13-2006, 02:09 PM
Flying the Mossie on online is exciting stuff, going in on the deck all the way, only popping up when attacking the target.

Obviously on servers with externals they are very vulnerable and even on full real a glance at the stats tells Blue that€s there€s a Mosquito about.

Flak is a big problem (and with 8 guns it can be too tempting to make ill advised strafing passes after the bomb run http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif), on a real raid there may be 6-12 aircraft to divide the flak but online it can all be directed at you.

On day raids the 2nd TAF FBVI€s rarely encountered the Luftwaffe but online you€ll see them nearly every time.

However with the right tactics and a bit of luck you can have some success.

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/4396/1lm0.jpg

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/5948/2po6.jpg

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/3905/3iz2.jpg

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/2808/4sj9.jpg

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/9272/5al1.jpg

Xiolablu3
09-13-2006, 02:24 PM
Hey Beaufort, is that on UKd2?

What name do you fly under? We will have to wing up togther one day!

I love that server, excellent maps.

Beaufort-RAF
09-13-2006, 02:33 PM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Hey Beaufort, is that on UKd2?

What name do you fly under? We will have to wing up togther one day!

I love that server, excellent maps.

Hi, it's Spits v 109s although I do go on UKD as 'Fulmar'.

leitmotiv
09-13-2006, 02:44 PM
Thanks for the true gen, ImpStarDuece. I was doing what you described intuitively, and now I see there was logic to it.

p1ngu666
09-13-2006, 03:03 PM
fly coops http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

lil tip, fly abit higher above the water, the spray cloud and wake can be seen from surprisingly high alt.

cool pics http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

faustnik
09-13-2006, 03:08 PM
P1ng,

With a North Sea map a possibility, are there some good sources for RAF or FAA operations in this area? Were Mossies a big part of anti-shipping operations in that area?

stathem
09-13-2006, 03:18 PM
Originally posted by faustnik:
P1ng,

With a North Sea map a possibility, are there some good sources for RAF or FAA operations in this area? Were Mossies a big part of anti-shipping operations in that area?

I believe "A Seperate Little War" is the bible for these ops(altough it's downstairs I haven't made a start on it yet.) ; and somewhere I have bookmarked a site that someone posted detailing every sortie flown from Banff; I think it's at work though. I 'll try to post it tomorrow.

EDIT; roughly, I think Mossies started taking over from Beaus mid-44; rocket eqipped from Oct. 44; Molins gun before that.

Xiolablu3
09-13-2006, 03:24 PM
I dont understand why the Mossie damage model is so weak compared to the Beaufighter.

I know its made of wood, but the La5 series is really strong. Almost as strong as a FW190 and much stronger than a Spitfire or 109 (I think these are the weakest of the top fighters, one mg shot often takes out the engine and a little 20mm rips the whole plane up).

I cannot understand why the Mossie goes down so easily.

faustnik
09-13-2006, 03:24 PM
Originally posted by stathem:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by faustnik:
P1ng,

With a North Sea map a possibility, are there some good sources for RAF or FAA operations in this area? Were Mossies a big part of anti-shipping operations in that area?

I believe "A Seperate Little War" is the bible for these ops(altough it's downstairs I haven't made a start on it yet.) ; and somewhere I have bookmarked a site that someone posted detailing every sortie flown from Banff; I think it's at work though. I 'll try to post it tomorrow.

EDIT; roughly, I think Mossies started taking over from Beaus mid-44; rocket eqipped from Oct. 44; Molins gun before that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks Stathem! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

F6_Ace
09-13-2006, 03:28 PM
I like the Mossie - it's best flown vs proper contemporaries (because it's not outclassed) and it's wise not to hang around too long.

It does seem to catch fire quite easily but other planes have DM faults too so this is no surprise (cue cynical moan that they could have spent more time looking at the DM rather than implementing the daft wiper http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif)

I don't really know enough about the Mossie to be sure that it it's speed made it untouchable even with a bomb load. I've only read one book on the aircraft some time ago (called Mosquito, oddly enough - the one with the description about a volunteer mission where a Mossie crew dropped the tri-colour onto a German parade in Paris) and there was a few incidents cited where the LW simply could not catch it unless they dove on it from some alt. How representative that is, I don't know.

One thing is for sure...it's one of the best looking planes ever designed.

p1ngu666
09-13-2006, 03:29 PM
depending on the period of the war, yes. early war alot of blehiems where used (at high cost in lives and machines http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif)

ill see what i can dig up, but most ops where similer, low level dash across the sea (really low), then a patrol or going to a target recon/intel has picked up.

beaufighters where also heavily used. targets would be ships, subs, docks and costal instalations. the ships used to hug the coast btw.

ill see what i can dig up tomoz http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

faustnik
09-13-2006, 03:30 PM
Thanks! I'll see what I can dig up on JG 5 operations.


A little North Sea info:

http://www.white1foundation.org/history_blackfriday.htm

http://www.luftwaffe.no/

p1ngu666
09-13-2006, 03:38 PM
well norris it was about as fast as anything else at low level, or a smidge faster, just a smidge mind.

the bombs on the wingracks would cause a abit of drag, but the internal bomb bay would be negliable difference in top speed.

it was, to my surprise to find out that its modeled like that in il2, and same for pe2 btw.

it was just as tough and robust, maybe moreso than its contemporaies (bleheim, ventrua, a20boston, b25 etc)

F6_Ace
09-13-2006, 03:41 PM
Originally posted by p1ngu666:
well norris it was about as fast as anything else at low level, or a smidge faster, just a smidge mind.

the bombs on the wingracks would cause a abit of drag, but the internal bomb bay would be negliable difference in top speed.

it was, to my surprise to find out that its modeled like that in il2, and same for pe2 btw.

it was just as tough and robust, maybe moreso than its contemporaies (bleheim, ventrua, a20boston, b25 etc)

Yes, I recall that it was tough and I suspect that the balsa 'bathtubs' went some way to absorbing the energy of hits a bit like modern cars do. I also believe that it nearly wiped the balsa population out, too?

Beaufort-RAF
09-13-2006, 07:28 PM
Originally posted by p1ngu666:
fly coops http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


Perhaps that€s the best way to fly realistic scenarios, with a well made objective like a No-ball site.

The aircraft forming up and then streaking to the target at low level would be a stirring sight. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Offline the Mossie suffers from the limitations of the IL2 engine, maps & AI.

Dgen & DCG are not at all capable of generating historical missions and the AI behaviour means aircraft will not simply bomb and get the hell out of there, instead making repeated strafing attacks.

The lack of the English coast on the Normandy map is a real killjoy.

Flying your own missions is not much fun, so we rely on a handful of community made campaigns that won€t take long to get through and the very simplistic damage model of buildings make accurate portrayals of the €˜special€ raids impossible.

Beaufort-RAF
09-13-2006, 07:33 PM
Originally posted by stathem:
somewhere I have bookmarked a site that someone posted detailing every sortie flown from Banff;


Banff Strike Wing (http://www.scotshistoryonline.co.uk/sorties.html)

faustnik
09-13-2006, 09:47 PM
Originally posted by Beaufort-RAF:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stathem:
somewhere I have bookmarked a site that someone posted detailing every sortie flown from Banff;


Banff Strike Wing (http://www.scotshistoryonline.co.uk/sorties.html) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Perfect! Thanks! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

ImpStarDuece
09-13-2006, 10:03 PM
I'm just hanging out for Ian Boy's Norway Map.

Banff Strike Wing co-ops and offline campaigns are going to be my reason for being for quite a while.

Mossies, Beaufighters and Mustangs vs flak ships and Fw-190s and the occasional Ju-88. Pity we don't have a MK XVIII Tse Tse (mmmm... 57mm Molins), or a proper Torbeau, or Ju-88C or Gs, but one makes do when one has to. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

leitmotiv
09-14-2006, 01:07 AM
The Mosquito was not a fighter slash bomber---it was a bomber with guns like the A-20 gun nose varients. At the beginning of the war the Blenheim was considered a speed recon-bomber aircraft and did well until they were sent unescorted into German army light flak and Luftwaffe fighters defending valuable targets in France in 1940. The Mosquito was the late-war Blenheim---as long as it was used prudently, it did its job magnificently. Sent into heavy flak and fighters they were dead as Blenheims. On its riskiest missions, the Mosquito was escorted like any bomber. A huge difference between the Delta wood Lavochkin designs and the Mosquito: Delta wood was ultra-hard plastic-impregnated wood which had been treated with fire ******ant. The Mosquito was built with plain wood. Mosquitos, by the way, had trouble in the Far East because the extreme heat and humidity debonded the wood leading to break-ups in flight.

BGs_Ricky
09-14-2006, 01:43 AM
Originally posted by stathem:
I believe "A Seperate Little War" is the bible for these ops(altough it's downstairs I haven't made a start on it yet.) ; and somewhere I have bookmarked a site that someone posted detailing every sortie flown from Banff; I think it's at work though. I 'll try to post it tomorrow.

EDIT; roughly, I think Mossies started taking over from Beaus mid-44; rocket eqipped from Oct. 44; Molins gun before that.

Exactly !!

I'm just reading this great book for the second time right now, and it is said that before being equipped with rockets, FBVI's used bombs but also depth charges against boats and U-boats.

Pilots of "B" flight of 333 (Norwegian) Squadron flew loads of solitary reconnaissance missions along the coast and into the fjords, and strikes were ready to depart as soon as they would report contacts or they came back.
Enemy ships were attacked while en-route or in harbours, night patrols (with full moon) were also performed by Baufighters, hoping that they'd see the ships in the bright moon reflection on the water.
When faced with heavy fighter opposition and without escort, Mosquitos and Beaufighters were in trouble, their best chance of escape was speed and low clouds in wich to escape. Of course the weather in the area was sometimes as much if not more dangerous than fighters or flak.

stathem
09-14-2006, 06:19 AM
Originally posted by Beaufort-RAF:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stathem:
somewhere I have bookmarked a site that someone posted detailing every sortie flown from Banff;


Banff Strike Wing (http://www.scotshistoryonline.co.uk/sorties.html) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks Beaufort http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Beaufort-RAF
09-14-2006, 06:26 AM
Originally posted by ImpStarDuece:
Pity we don't have a MK XVIII Tse Tse (mmmm... 57mm Molins), or a proper Torbeau, or Ju-88C or Gs, but one makes do when one has to. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

We also need the Vickers Warwick. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Imp, what do you think of the one engined performance of our flyable Mossie, is it up to scratch and what our the optimum settings (after feathering) for making it back without cooking the good engine (pitch, throttle, radiator etc)?

http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/milestones-of-flight/aircraft/images/1943/1943-p106311-V-Warwick-I.jpg

stathem
09-14-2006, 06:38 AM
I think we often find the performance of the Mossie on one engine poor because it is usually assciated with other battle damage in the sim, which has the effect on all planes of reducing speed. (not my idea this, someone else posted words to the same effect a little while ago)

I tried feathering a good one just to see the other night, and it seemed to perform OK, could climb and barrel-roll away from the working one. Didn't take nay measurements though.

ImpStarDuece
09-14-2006, 06:47 AM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
The Mosquito was not a fighter slash bomber---it was a bomber with guns like the A-20 gun nose varients. At the beginning of the war the Blenheim was considered a speed recon-bomber aircraft and did well until they were sent unescorted into German army light flak and Luftwaffe fighters defending valuable targets in France in 1940. The Mosquito was the late-war Blenheim---as long as it was used prudently, it did its job magnificently. Sent into heavy flak and fighters they were dead as Blenheims. On its riskiest missions, the Mosquito was escorted like any bomber. A huge difference between the Delta wood Lavochkin designs and the Mosquito: Delta wood was ultra-hard plastic-impregnated wood which had been treated with fire ******ant. The Mosquito was built with plain wood. Mosquitos, by the way, had trouble in the Far East because the extreme heat and humidity debonded the wood leading to break-ups in flight.

This is completely false in most areas..

The Blenheim was considered a light bomber when the war broke out, not a reconnisance bomber. The RAF knew it was obsolete, but didn't have anything better to throw into the sky.

The Mosquito was originally desiged as a light, fast bomber, but it was found to be so fast and outstandingly manouverable that the fighter version of the Mossie, the F Mk II, entered service over four months before the first bomber conversions from PR aircraft, and 11 months before the first dedicated bomber mark, the B Mk IV.

The FB (Fighter Bomber, then name is another clue here http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ) Mk IV was also the most produced Mosquito type of the war. The second most produced mark was the F Mk XIX, a night fighter.

As for the Mosquito having problems in Burma due to the the glue debonding, this a combination of wartime myth, British propaganda to keep up morale, some unfortunate production mistakes and good old urban legend.

Six Mosquitos were sent to Burma in April 1943 for six months of weathering trials. The only problem they showed was some slight warping of the balsa sandwich fuselage surface, but no structural problems and no deteroriation of the casein glue were found at all.

There were a serise of fatal and non-fatal accidents in late 1944, when Mosquitos, mostly FB Mk IV, but also some F Mk XIXs and PR Mk IXs, returned with deformed wing leading edges(usually at Rib 12, about six feet from the wing tip) or were lost due to wing failures. However, between 2 and 4 Mossies were lost a month to wing failures in the UK at the same time, so it couldn't be a tropics only problem.

At one point in Nov 1944 all Mossies in Burma were grounded, naming glue delaminatio, shrinkage during the wet season or even termites as the causes, while the War Ministry announced the failures were "faults, largely due to climate". However, the real problem was faulty construction, mostly at the Hatfield and Leavseden plants. There weer two problems. Firstly, the joins between the main spar, wing ribs and the plywood skin on the wing were being constructed and glued incorrectly leading to the wing surface peeling off, leading to wing failure. Secondly, gaps were left between the wing surface and one of the main wings box sections, again leading to wing failure and/or failure of the box section of the wing resulting in wing deformation (and a seriously hairy trip home).

The official RAF investigation of the failures in Burma concluded that "Defects not due to climactic conditions....section of wing tip splicing on some aircraft found to be defective due to inferior workmanship". Eventually Mod 638 was put in place, changing the internal construction of the wing slightly, and the problem disappeared.

Kernow
09-14-2006, 06:58 AM
Originally posted by Brain32:
...how do you aim the bombs, I mean for example in a FW190 I drop just in the moment the bar covers the target, I can't seem to hit anything with the Mosquito http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif Which part of the plane and how do you time it for aiming the bombs?

I can't se that anyone has answered you, so I'll pass on what I've found. In a fast, shallow dive with a low release the bombs almost folllow the aircraft's vector at the moment of release, so they don't land far short of the point under the centre of the gunsight. I find the bombs drop to the ring on the gunsight - 6 o'clock position, of course.

Put the bottom of the gunsight ring over the target, come in hard and fast, and release your bombs at the last moment then run away. If that doesn't work record some tracks and see by how much you missed; adjust accordingly. I find it's a good aiming point, however.

Plenty of good advice already given above. I thought I might be the only one who made attacks so that I could egress heading straight home, but obviously not (the way to go in a 190 also).

Some have suggested co-ops as a place for the Mossie to shine. Only if it's a big map and the enemy fighters haven't been told where you're going - fat chance http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Someone mentioned earlier that we are getting a '44, RP-armed version in one of the add-ons to go with the Norway map. This is the first I've seen of that possibility. Is it true? It would make so much sense I just don't see it happening http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Likewise bombs for the Hurri IIc (just like the IIb already carries) to go with the Burma map would be so much like common sense, but I won't hold my breath.

Beaufort-RAF
09-14-2006, 07:09 AM
Originally posted by Kernow:

Someone mentioned earlier that we are getting a '44, RP-armed version in one of the add-ons to go with the Norway map. This is the first I've seen of that possibility. Is it true? It would make so much sense I just don't see it happening http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Likewise bombs for the Hurri IIc (just like the IIb already carries) to go with the Burma map would be so much like common sense, but I won't hold my breath.

In May Ian Boys (who is buliding the Norway map) said "Oleg has no plans for a late-model Mossie with rockets." http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

hening_880Sqn
09-14-2006, 07:23 AM
I never cried about getting it or whined about it's modeling, but really couldn't wait to see it and fly it often. I've created single missions and a campaign with it. The only thing that I would like to see are more weapon systems for ship busting.

I am also very grateful for this aircraft.

leitmotiv
09-14-2006, 09:27 AM
ImpStarDeuce, look at any reputable history of the Blenheim: the brand new in 1939 Blenheim IV with the extended nose (to improve navigation and observation for the observer) was built as a reconnaissance aircraft/bomber, and, in fact, the first mission of the Blenheim IV on the day Britain declared war was a long-range recon of the German ports. The Blenheim IVs were used for long range recon throughout 1939 and 1940, and, in fact, one of the Blenheim IV squadrons with the Expeditionary Force in France was used solely for recon---see VALIANT WINGS by Norman Franks (about the Blenheim IV and Battle squadrons in France) and the definitive Blenheim history, THE BRISTOL BLENHEIM: A COMPLETE HISTORY by Graham Warner. As for the debonding, that's what I found in the trashy Osprey on the Mosquito fighter-bombers, and I am not surprised it is in error.

Holy cow---you made a HUGE error on production---the Mosquito <span class="ev_code_RED">VI</span> was the most produced variant, not the IV. Check any well researched Mosquito history. I assume you got your Roman numerals in reverse by accident.

Kurfurst__
09-14-2006, 09:56 AM
Originally posted by ImpStarDuece:

Ideally, a +18lbs Merlin 25 variant would be nice instead of the +18 lbs Merlin 23 variant we have now. With about 200 hp more per engine, we'd get 10-15 mph more speed on the deck, or 15-25 mph more speed if it was modelled with the multi-ejector exhausts. Mossies w/ Merlin 25's could do 355 mph with 2 100 gallon (120 US gallon) drop tanks on the wings and aprrently could push 375-380 mph on the dec when boostsd to +25lbs. Hell, Mossies with No2 were doing 395mph at 3000 feet. Now THATS what I call a fast jabo!

Hi,

do you have a timeline of introduction and the scale of use for these variants? I believe +25 would required 150 grade and was pricipally used for V-1 hunting, whereas the NO2 Mossie - maybe one squadron operating them, is that correct?

luftluuver
09-14-2006, 10:35 AM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
Holy cow---you made a HUGE error on production---the Mosquito <span class="ev_code_RED">VI</span> was the most produced variant, not the IV. Check any well researched Mosquito history. I assume you got your Roman numerals in reverse by accident. Any idiot can see ISD made an error as he said the <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">FB (Fighter Bomber...)</span> not B. There was no FBIVs. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

CrazyBadger
09-14-2006, 10:45 AM
I think you€ll find that the mossie was actually pretty well regarded for its ability to absorb punishment.

€œThe wooden structure was to prove extremely sturdy and resistant to gunfire, probably because the wooden structure contains its own natural crack-stoppers and because the wooden airframe had minimum of fastener holes to generate stress concentrations.€ (Bill Sweetman, taken from the chapter €œMosquito€, in the Great Book of WWII Airplanes, 1984 Bonanza Books.)

I know that most pilots will come home telling stories of how tough their plane is because obviously dead pilots don€t get to tell their stories, but generally I have only ever read good things about the plane. I've also seen a number of photo's of crashed mossies where you wonder how they ever made it back with all the gaping holes in them. I know my father flew in them (as a radar/nav) just post war and it remained his favorite till he died. Although he did tell me a funny story about literally crapping himself when the pilot he was with decided to get a little too frisky at the controls and let the speed build up too much in a dive. I seem to remember the pilot had only recently transfered to the radar nosed variety and my dad thought that he had not accounted for the extra weight in the nose. Atleast that was his belief. Anyway...the pilot finally pulled out but at grass-top height, and with the resulting G€s the **** went right down my father€s pants and into his boots. Apparently he had the habit of tucking his flying overalls into the top of his boots. He was cleaning cr*p out of his toenails for days http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/1072.gif

leitmotiv
09-14-2006, 11:54 AM
Ah, luftluvver forgot his Prozac dose again.

Aaron_GT
09-14-2006, 12:00 PM
Six Mosquitos were sent to Burma in April 1943 for six months of weathering trials.

Some were sent to India, and there were some issues with the glue. The glue formulation was changed, which eliminated problems with the glue. Weathering was potentially faster in the Far East than Europe, but then it was expected that this would take several years and the aircraft would be obselete and scrapped before this became an issue.

luftluuver
09-14-2006, 12:22 PM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
Ah, luftluvver forgot his Prozac dose again. Yes you know all about Prozac. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

faustnik
09-14-2006, 12:26 PM
Was skip-bombing a tactic used by the Mosquito crews against shipping?

stathem
09-14-2006, 12:33 PM
Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ImpStarDuece:

Ideally, a +18lbs Merlin 25 variant would be nice instead of the +18 lbs Merlin 23 variant we have now. With about 200 hp more per engine, we'd get 10-15 mph more speed on the deck, or 15-25 mph more speed if it was modelled with the multi-ejector exhausts. Mossies w/ Merlin 25's could do 355 mph with 2 100 gallon (120 US gallon) drop tanks on the wings and aprrently could push 375-380 mph on the dec when boostsd to +25lbs. Hell, Mossies with No2 were doing 395mph at 3000 feet. Now THATS what I call a fast jabo!

Hi,

do you have a timeline of introduction and the scale of use for these variants? I believe +25 would required 150 grade and was pricipally used for V-1 hunting, whereas the NO2 Mossie - maybe one squadron operating them, is that correct? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In 'Night Flyer', Lewis Brandon (DSO,DFC and Bar) talks about modifications to their Mossie Nightfighters for anti-diver patrols:



...the exhaust shrouds were dispensed with, extra boost was given to the engines, we were supplied with 150 octane petrol, and of course, the noses were strengthened. With the exception of the exhaust shrouds,all these modifications were retained when we returned to our Bomber Support role.

Brandon was a navigator and doesn't go in much for keeping up with the mark of Mosquito he and his pilot James Gilles Benson were using at any given time. Date for the above is about June/July '44.

I think it's unlikey they were the only ones to recieve these mods, so their experience indicates at least a proportion of the 100 Group nightfighters had 150 octane from July 44 through to the end of the war.

p1ngu666
09-14-2006, 12:38 PM
blehiem crews used that tatic, so reasonable to presume yes http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

faustnik
09-14-2006, 12:51 PM
Originally posted by p1ngu666:
blehiem crews used that tatic, so reasonable to presume yes http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Cool, thanks.

ImpStarDuece
09-14-2006, 03:14 PM
Originally posted by Aaron_GT:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Six Mosquitos were sent to Burma in April 1943 for six months of weathering trials.

Some were sent to India, and there were some issues with the glue. The glue formulation was changed, which eliminated problems with the glue. Weathering was potentially faster in the Far East than Europe, but then it was expected that this would take several years and the aircraft would be obselete and scrapped before this became an issue. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, the special 'waterproof' formaldehyde adhesive was only applied to the few airframes (three test F. MK IIs and some FB. Ms VIs). The standard casein glue was used for virtually all MOsquitos in the Far East:

"The feared deteoritaion of adhesive did not happen despite the aircraft being continually exposed to high temperatures and humidity, so approval was given for the delivery of more Mosquitos to India" Martin W. Bowman "The men who flew the Mosquito" p. 207.

Aaron_GT
09-14-2006, 03:59 PM
from Bowyer and Sharp, page 260

"Air Ministry proposed sending six Mosquito IIs to the Far East in February, 1943, for weathering trials. They were to be of differing ages and picketed out in various regions of India. There was no qestion of operating the machines, which Myers was to superintend for de Havilland. Four Mosquito IIs had been shipped out by May, 1943, two with formadehyde gluing, which, it was considered, would afford protection against insect attacks on the woodwork. A trial Mk. VI reached India on 10 August.

...

Reports reaching Hatfield regarding weathering were so good as to appear dubious, for the aircraft were being kept in the open in temperatures of 130 degrees with humidity at 88 per cent; and between April and August the rainfaill at Dum Dum measured 53.64 inches"

page 263:

"Flg. Offs A.E. Parker and M.D. Randall of 82 Squadron were on 20 October [1944] detailed to make a practice bombing attack on Random Range. During the shallow-dive run in half of the starboard wing out-board of the nacelle crumpled and disintegrated. The Mosquito rolled into the ground. Immediately all others in India were grounded. Inspection of the aircraft revealed that heat and exposure were at last taking their toll, causing the glue to crack and skinning to lift from the spars. Fabric cracked too. Accordingly all Mosquitoes were ordered to be flown to No. 1 C.M.U. Kanchrapra if they had been in the Far East for three months or over, or had spent a month in the Middle East. Further investigation revealed that the aircraft in which formadehyde glue had been used were in satisfactory state. At Hatfield all completed parts in which formadehyde glue had not been used were ordered to be destroyed or sold off as scrap.

47 Squadron were informed that they were to convert to Mosquitoes on 19 September and moved to equip at Yellahanka early in October. On 5 October the last Beaufighter left and Mosquitoes were then received. An urgent signal of 25 October ordered all Mosquitoes grounded and by 20 November all had been found to be faulty. On 30 November Beaufighters returned."

I must admit that all my Mosquito books give slightly different accounts, although the ones that mention 2 machines in India that had problems might be referring to 2 of the 6 sent that did not use formaldehyde, maybe?

Aaron_GT
09-14-2006, 04:00 PM
Six Mosquitos were sent to Burma in April 1943 for six months of weathering trials.


I presume these are the same six (given the date) that Sharp and Bowyer say were sent to 'various regions of India'?

Kernow
09-15-2006, 04:02 AM
Originally posted by Beaufort-RAF:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kernow:

Someone mentioned earlier that we are getting a '44, RP-armed version in one of the add-ons to go with the Norway map. This is the first I've seen of that possibility. Is it true? It would make so much sense I just don't see it happening http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Likewise bombs for the Hurri IIc (just like the IIb already carries) to go with the Burma map would be so much like common sense, but I won't hold my breath.

In May Ian Boys (who is buliding the Norway map) said "Oleg has no plans for a late-model Mossie with rockets." http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yea, I was pretty sure I'd heard something negative about Mossie loadouts.

I've just read the book about the Banff Wing and another one worth reading: Christina Goulter's "Forgotten Offensive" about Coastal Command's anti-shipping campaign. A very effective campaign once the right aircraft and tactics were employed from the end of 43, but often incredibly costly before that. Chris Goss's "Bloody Biscay" is another.

I don't recall skip-bombing being mentioned in any of those. As the Germans were in the habit of heavily arming even merchant ships against air attack, I don't suppose it would have been tried more than once... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif All the effective weapons allowed some degree of stand-off: 57mm cannon, 20 mm cannon, rockets, torpedoes. The solid 25 lb AP rocket finally being the prefered weapon.

leitmotiv
09-15-2006, 04:28 AM
The 1941-42 "Channel Stop" campaign placed on 2nd Group's Blenheim IVs was a nightmare---an aerial Balaclava all but forgotten now. Theo Boiten wrote a memorial to the brave Blenheim crews of this campaign: BLENHEIM STRIKE: BLENHEIM OPERATIONS OVER HOLLAND IN WORLD WAR II (available from Amazon UK).

ImpStarDuece
09-15-2006, 07:29 AM
Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ImpStarDuece:

Ideally, a +18lbs Merlin 25 variant would be nice instead of the +18 lbs Merlin 23 variant we have now. With about 200 hp more per engine, we'd get 10-15 mph more speed on the deck, or 15-25 mph more speed if it was modelled with the multi-ejector exhausts. Mossies w/ Merlin 25's could do 355 mph with 2 100 gallon (120 US gallon) drop tanks on the wings and aprrently could push 375-380 mph on the dec when boostsd to +25lbs. Hell, Mossies with No2 were doing 395mph at 3000 feet. Now THATS what I call a fast jabo!

Hi,

do you have a timeline of introduction and the scale of use for these variants? I believe +25 would required 150 grade and was pricipally used for V-1 hunting, whereas the NO2 Mossie - maybe one squadron operating them, is that correct? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The first FB Mk VI's with Merlin 25s rolled off the production lines from June 1943. By March 1944 over 1,000 FB Mk VIs had been delivered with Merlin 25 engines.

As for dates with +18, +23/+25 usage (Merlin 25 was inclined to produce backfires in M supercharger gear at anything higher than +23), I'll have to do some more digging. I know there were engine tests in March/April with 150 octane, but a cleared for use date is harder to pin down.

Aaron_GT
09-15-2006, 02:27 PM
Info on +23/25 is thin on the ground. Bower and Sharp has some dates for introduction of +18 somewhere, although more detail on that would be good. It's a good book for details of operations, production, kills, squadrons, etc., but not necessarily what boost was used when and where.

leitmotiv
09-16-2006, 05:08 AM
Zeno kindly provided the Air Ministry Mosquito VI PILOT'S NOTES online here:

http://tinyurl.com/jzwoa

There is some useful information on Merlins 23 and 25. Never hurts to cite your sources, ImpStarDuece---as Ronald Reagan once said: "Trust but verify."

ImpStarDuece
09-16-2006, 06:20 AM
Already had them http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Only problem is they are the post-war notes. Check the date of publication, its January, 1950.

There is a slew of RAF and USAAF pilot notes at airwar.ru as well as some other sites.

You can pick up manuals online for the:

RAF

Beaufighter VI, TFX & XI (Jan. 1944)
Lancaster (May. 1944)
Mustang III (Jun. 1944)
Spitfire II (Jul. 1940)
Spitfire V
Spitfire IX, XVI, XI (Sep. 1946)
Spitfire XII (Nov. 1943)
Spitfire XIV, XIX (Apr. 1946)
Seafire 45,46 (Apr. 1948)
Typhoon I (Nov. 1943)
Tempest V (Aug. 1946)
Tempest II (Sep. 1946)
Brewster Buffalo
Hurricane I/II (Dec. 1940)

USAAF

P-39D
P-40F
P-40N
P-51D
P-38J/L

VVS

La-5
Il-2 (in Russian)

LuftWaffe

190A-5/A-6 (in German)
Ta-152 (in German)
Bf-190G2/6
Bf-109K (in German)

and maybe some others that I haven't downloaded yet.

leitmotiv
09-16-2006, 07:45 AM
Holy cow---right you are---1950. Is the Mosquito VI Manual published by the RAF Museum about 20 years ago any help? That's the one of the series I do not have. Didn't realize how thin on the ground published sources on the Mosquito VI were. Of course there is always the good old RAF Museum Reading Room!