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BillSwagger
11-29-2009, 07:15 AM
It seems there is a pettiness to the online stuff, but i try not to let it spoil my fun. I think most people just relax and play, and depending on the server most games are generally good or even great to participate in.

On some servers however much fun i'm having, i still might encounter a few trouble makers. There's enough game to play, so I let a lot of that crap slide. It just seems like it depends on who I interfere with, unintentionally, and no matter how insignificant, i get much more flak and harassment. By comparison i'm already tolerating much more BS than, for example, me ramming into another players kill by accident. It doesn't keep the offended player from making a public display out of it. Actually, its their choice to carry on while ignoring my apologies, and for some reason they think they are the only one who's ever lost a kill, or had it stolen. Truth is that happens to everyone but we all deal because its part of playing. Its these few people who have this false sense of entitlement that makes online play pretty stupid at times.
It really only takes one bad apple, and sometimes ignoring the person is not enough because they do things in game to interfere with my game.
I'd rather not argue, cause its hard for people watching to know who the idiot is. Usually I just apologize and hopefully that's enough, but what do you suggest when the other person chooses to carry on, yet you don't want to stoop to arguing with them?


Bill

JtD
11-29-2009, 07:32 AM
Go to the forums of the server in question and make your point. Personally, I'm often more allergic to the rantings than to the "crimes" setting them off, and where I fly, most of the admins think the same. So you'd have a good chance to get them to listen.

I'd recommend to voice your concerns only after you've cooled down, though, some guys post still in the heat of the battle and this all too often does not get them what they want.

Edit: Made "crime" out of crime, as AndyJWest is right.

Monty_Thrud
11-29-2009, 07:37 AM
I see nothing has changed, i gave up online flying for the same reasons, it's a shame because the majority of online folk are decent and out for the same enjoyment as yourself, best thing you can do is join a respectable Sqd and fly with some dedicated folk.

AndyJWest
11-29-2009, 07:39 AM
I think you have a point JtD, though I'm not sure that calling something done online a 'crime' is particularly apposite. This is a game, after all.

Part of the problem stems from the complete lack of control on what goes on in the HyperLobby chat, combined with people faking other peoples IDs and generally going out of their way to cause trouble.

The only real answer to this is to either not use HL at all, or for some kind of admin for it to be set up, though I can't see that happening.

Erkki_M
11-29-2009, 08:27 AM
Andy, or the easiest way, use HL but never take part in the chat. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

The_Stealth_Owl
11-29-2009, 08:28 AM
Yes, I seriously get sick of online. The only reason I go ther is because it is like another forum. I quite after they called my first mod trash.

BillSwagger
11-29-2009, 08:49 AM
i'm referring to in game chat more so than the lobby chat. That also gets abused but really you choose your battles and the amount of energy and time you want to spend blabbing with someone about anything but getting a coop or game together.

Its a bit different when you're on a server minding your own business, and you get a bit of attitude from some players. No problem if i'm in the wrong, like i say, i make nice and say i'm sorry, but apparently thats not always enough.

A lot of it isn't the arguements or whats said that bugs me, its the fact that some times these people can be pretty unrelenting with their grudges.

I usually switch out screen names from month to month, but I'm still easily identified from my IP address. i just don't understand how a non-admin player has access to that kind of info unless the admins are sharing this stuff with others. That's kind of where i draw the line, and if my personal information is being scrubbed for what ever reason then i have to question that.

It seems a bit unfair to target HL, when generally its a pretty good and safe place to play, and I seldom ever have issues with anyone or any particular server. This is why it comes as a surprise to me to have to say something like this. I would hate to see a few people's reckless disregard and irresponsibility with other peoples personal information ruin the reputation of their server, and possibly the HL client as a whole.

At this point, i don't see the need to name names, nor server, but perhaps this gesture should serve as a preemptive warning about how servers handle and track their users information. The argument could be made to handle this on the forums of the server in question, but why, when i can make everyone aware here on Ubi.

Its that simple.



Bill

K_Freddie
11-29-2009, 08:51 AM
Bill.. I wouldn't let them bother you too much.
With the 'new intake of recruits' that has happened over the past year or so, there has come with it, a lot of immature people (probably from the FPS games).

I've had a few of those, where I either don't bother replying, or if I've had some 'red juice'.. tell them to get lost, grow up, get a life.
If they're on the same side, I switch sides and 'hunt them down' just for fun http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Swivet
11-29-2009, 09:49 AM
Let us not forget that when we are online we are flying with a vast majority of different people, attitudes and ages. Those last two words are what sums it up. That's why our Sqd. always fly together and run our own private server. I guess that's why there are squads in the first place. But if your not in a squad this kind of stuff is what your gonna be dealing with. Offline it's just a game to some, Online it becomes a stark raving mad all out war to others, where people show their true selves while hiding behind their monitors, and sometimes it's not so pleasant.

And if that be the case i'd much rather fly offline on veteran/ace settings and be happy without all the BS
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

stalkervision
11-29-2009, 10:28 AM
that's exactly why I stay out of that on-line rats nest. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Jaws2002
11-29-2009, 12:23 PM
Originally posted by stalkervision:
that's exactly why I stay out of that on-line rats nest. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Only when we go online we realize how much we really suck. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/crackwhip.gif

RSS-Martin
11-29-2009, 12:31 PM
Yeah if this game where only offline, it would have been uninstalled long ago.

SeaFireLIV
11-29-2009, 01:07 PM
Only way out is join a Squad and fly with them or play Offline which i now mostly do. You`ll find this problem in every online game. IL2 is one of the least annoying.

Try Left4Dead with mikes that you can`t disable and you`ll really know what pettiness is in all its unholy glory!

stalkervision
11-29-2009, 01:18 PM
Originally posted by Jaws2002:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stalkervision:
that's exactly why I stay out of that on-line rats nest. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Only when we go online we realize how much we really suck. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/crackwhip.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

so just how bad do you suck? J/2 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

stalkervision
11-29-2009, 01:20 PM
Originally posted by RSS-Martin:
Yeah if this game where only offline, it would have been uninstalled long ago.

If I flew this just for the ai I would do that too R/M. Way too many nice things about the game other then that to let just that one thing bother me. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif

jamesblonde1979
11-29-2009, 02:10 PM
I look at it this way, If somebody is polite and shows a desire to learn I will do anything to help even if it means spending an hour on Teamspeak to help them with a problem.

On the other hand (if they have an attitude) I let my guns do the talking, most people come around. I've never met anybody online with an attitude problem who was any good.

Waldo.Pepper
11-29-2009, 03:57 PM
"I don't hate people. I just feel better when they are not around."

C Bukowski.

Tuphlandng
11-29-2009, 04:33 PM
Originally posted by jamesblonde1979:
I look at it this way, If somebody is polite and shows a desire to learn I will do anything to help even if it means spending an hour on Teamspeak to help them with a problem.

On the other hand (if they have an attitude) I let my guns do the talking, most people come around. I've never met anybody online with an attitude problem who was any good.

Thanks for that

I think thay it is the foundation of a community

Tuph

FourShades
11-29-2009, 04:55 PM
Reading this and other threads, I get the feeling that many people equate "online" with large, public DF servers. There is a world of quality online experience available for players that is separate to large, public DF servers. You just have to look for it.

So let's not drag the phrase "online" through the mud unnecessarily. There are many DF servers around where you will find a nice environment, same for coop events, and squad wars, and ...

If you only fly in places where they will let *anyone* join at any time, then you are bound to get a percentage of riff-raff and cheeziness.

Cheers,
4Shades

Erkki_M
11-29-2009, 04:59 PM
A hint for HL users...

If you use the chat, use it to only say a few words of this and that(not game) before you move over to a server and/or voice comms. Dont comment on anything(at least against the masses' opinion), dont help anyone, dont claim anything and over all, dont teach them. Pride goes before a fall. Using the chat too much, no matter what saying in it, you're just digging blood out of your nose. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

stalkervision
11-29-2009, 05:10 PM
Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
"I don't hate people. I just feel better when they are not around."

C Bukowski.


http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

DKoor
11-29-2009, 06:17 PM
Originally posted by BillSwagger:
It seems there is a pettiness to the online stuff, but i try not to let it spoil my fun. I think most people just relax and play, and depending on the server most games are generally good or even great to participate in.

On some servers however much fun i'm having, i still might encounter a few trouble makers. There's enough game to play, so I let a lot of that crap slide. It just seems like it depends on who I interfere with, unintentionally, and no matter how insignificant, i get much more flak and harassment. By comparison i'm already tolerating much more BS than, for example, me ramming into another players kill by accident. It doesn't keep the offended player from making a public display out of it. Actually, its their choice to carry on while ignoring my apologies, and for some reason they think they are the only one who's ever lost a kill, or had it stolen. Truth is that happens to everyone but we all deal because its part of playing. Its these few people who have this false sense of entitlement that makes online play pretty stupid at times.
It really only takes one bad apple, and sometimes ignoring the person is not enough because they do things in game to interfere with my game.
I'd rather not argue, cause its hard for people watching to know who the idiot is. Usually I just apologize and hopefully that's enough, but what do you suggest when the other person chooses to carry on, yet you don't want to stoop to arguing with them?


Bill Mate the only thing that can bring you satisfaction if you go retaliate yourself for being harassed is to ALWAYS <span class="ev_code_red">ALWAYS</span> make a track of every sortie you fly online. Afterward you simply delete them if nothing suspicious occurs.
... That way you can always bring the bullies to their virtual justice in a form of mods of an appropriate server.
Once I was bullied by server mod he kicked me for no reason - supposedly I stole someone's kill, but that couldn't be more far from the truth... in fact I got robbed on my kill!
When I politely informed the mod in question about this and was willing to sent him a track he continued with his BS so I simply posted that track on their forum. It was quickly solved http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif .

Another big plus is if you fly a really good sortie you can always replay it later to enjoyhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif , or if you make a mistake you can rectify it next time by analyzing what went wrong, on the track.
In the "heat of battle" it is often very hard to perceive thing for what they really are.

Another words; no track = no luck http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif.

DKoor
11-29-2009, 06:18 PM
Originally posted by stalkervision:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
"I don't hate people. I just feel better when they are not around."

C Bukowski.


http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Sounds bad, but I honestly believe the same thing. More so because I feel the same way http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif.

XGB63
11-29-2009, 11:37 PM
Originally posted by DKoor:
Mate the only thing that can bring you satisfaction if you go retaliate yourself for being harassed is to ALWAYS <span class="ev_code_red">ALWAYS</span> make a track of every sortie you fly online. Afterward you simply delete them if nothing suspicious occurs.
... That way you can always bring the bullies to their virtual justice in a form of mods of an appropriate server.
Once I was bullied by server mod he kicked me for no reason - supposedly I stole someone's kill, but that couldn't be more far from the truth... in fact I got robbed on my kill!
When I politely informed the mod in question about this and was willing to sent him a track he continued with his BS so I simply posted that track on their forum. It was quickly solved http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif .

Another big plus is if you fly a really good sortie you can always replay it later to enjoyhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif , or if you make a mistake you can rectify it next time by analyzing what went wrong, on the track.
In the "heat of battle" it is often very hard to perceive thing for what they really are.

Another words; no track = no luck http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif.

Whats the difference between an NTRK and a TRK ?
Does hitting that Record button save the mission similar to a fraps clip? I hope not because those fraps clips take up alot of memory.

RSS-Martin
11-30-2009, 02:14 AM
Originally posted by DKoor:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stalkervision:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
"I don't hate people. I just feel better when they are not around."

C Bukowski.


http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Sounds bad, but I honestly believe the same thing. More so because I feel the same way http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

+1 on that!
It just takes one bad apple! Of course one can nail them later if one has a track, but first of all they spoil your flight by their dumb behavior.
At certain times chat bars should be removed totally. So at least you are spared of reading unwillingly BS from some punk. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

M_Gunz
11-30-2009, 02:22 AM
Originally posted by XGB63:
Whats the difference between an NTRK and a TRK ?

TRK is all control movements recorded and doesn't always play back the same sometimes by a wide margin.
IIRC TRK is a text file.

NTRK is encoded with position data, AFAIK same as multiplayer net packets and gives more true playback
though I am not sure it is perfect.


Does hitting that Record button save the mission similar to a fraps clip? I hope not because those fraps clips take up alot of memory.

No. The picture information is not there. You need IL2 same version to play the tracks back.

Tully__
11-30-2009, 03:42 AM
Originally posted by XGB63:

Whats the difference between an NTRK and a TRK ?
Does hitting that Record button save the mission similar to a fraps clip? I hope not because those fraps clips take up alot of memory.
<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI>.trk is saved by the "Save Track" button after an offline mission. It contains the contents of the mission file and a record of all the control inputs made by the player. When played back, it starts the original mission then plays back the players control movements. This file will only work with all the control responses and other objects being "played" exactly the same by the game engine/AI , so it wont work in a different patch version. The recording file in plain text and can be easily edited by anyone with access to the file after then fact.

<LI>.ntrk is the ESC menu "Start Recording" (or key assignment "Start/stop quick recording"). It records the map and the initial location, speed and damage condition of all objects in the mission at the time the recording starts. It continues to record all changes in speed, direction, location and damage condition for all objects through to mission end or the recording being stopped. The resulting file is encrypted before being saved. Because it doesn't rely on playing back control inputs or AI responsesd, the resulting file will work in all versions equal to or later than the version in which it was recorded and will record multiplayer as well as single player. Because the file in encrypted, it is much less likely that someone is able to confuse the issue by editing the recording after the fact. Because the file records much more information than .trk format, the file is bigger but nowhere near as big as a full video capture.[/list]

Tully__
11-30-2009, 03:43 AM
Originally posted by BillSwagger:
...but I'm still easily identified from my IP address. i just don't understand how a non-admin player has access to that kind of info...
Bill, PT coming on that.

XGB63
11-30-2009, 05:10 AM
Thanks for the info on the NTRK stuff people. Now I can feel more comfortable the next time I'm online and I use that record feature. I will use it no doubt.
Another thing:
I made a mission in full mission builder and I would like to have a human wingman to help me on it. This mission envolves taking off from a carrier. How is this done from HL?

Xiola
11-30-2009, 07:27 AM
Originally posted by DKoor:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stalkervision:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
"I don't hate people. I just feel better when they are not around."

C Bukowski.


http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Sounds bad, but I honestly believe the same thing. More so because I feel the same way http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Me too... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Jaws2002
11-30-2009, 09:28 AM
Originally posted by stalkervision:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jaws2002:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stalkervision:
that's exactly why I stay out of that on-line rats nest. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Only when we go online we realize how much we really suck. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/crackwhip.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

so just how bad do you suck? J/2 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I didn't play IL-2 in over 4 months.....I royally suck. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif ...Not that I was any better before. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blush.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/disagree.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

mortoma
11-30-2009, 10:43 AM
All the personal and petty stuff I stay out of and I don't play online very often. Especially now due to the version conflict problem. But what does really bother me is the cheating that goes on.

I was in a coop the last time I played and was in a 109-G6AS I think, or maybe a G10, whatever, doesn't matter now. But I was one of the only humans in a 109 while most of the human players were in Spits. I was tearing everybody to pieces but there was this one dude that ended up down low and slow in a Spit. Every time I dived down on him, just as I was going to blast him with some deflection, I got massive lag which caused me to miss. I assumed he was hitting his print screen button to cause the lag and make me miss. Then we ended up in a head on approach later and he collided with me on purpose. Apparently to make up for him being a weak virtual fighter pilot possibly?? I found his behavior to be childish, boorish and appalling.

Erkki_M
11-30-2009, 11:13 AM
Mortoma, you can save a screen shot only once in every 10 seconds anymore, since version 3.XX if I remember right.

Not that he couldnt have used some 3rd party program that also saves the image in .tga or some other uncompressed form.

Did his plane bounce/warp or did you have a screen freeze yourself?

BillSwagger
11-30-2009, 11:33 AM
Is that what causes that warping?
I often wondered why it would wait to warp until i'm at a gun solution on my opponent.
Warping happens for different reasons, but i have to question when it always seems to happen when i'm closing in and about to shoot.

K_Freddie
11-30-2009, 12:54 PM
If his PC freezes.. he'll be a sitting duck for a few seconds while there is no update to the server - then the server would 'lose him' as he goes into orbit.

IOW his plane would fly on the same course, as the last server update from his PC.

the trick is to fire where you think he should be.. and when he 'reconnects'.. he'll have a black screen. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Erkki_M
11-30-2009, 01:06 PM
Originally posted by BillSwagger:
Is that what causes that warping?
I often wondered why it would wait to warp until i'm at a gun solution on my opponent.
Warping happens for different reasons, but i have to question when it always seems to happen when i'm closing in and about to shoot.

Not necessarily printscreen or other controlled means of it. I think in 99% or more of the cases its because the guy you're just about to shoot has a longer or shorter(half a sec is enough) screen freeze for reason or another. To my comp the problem and cause of these seem to be sounds: if some sound hasnt yet been used during a session, it sometimes causes a freeze, for example gun sounds, hit effect sounds etc. Another thing causing even more freezing to me is people destroying enough ground objects simultaneously and someone picking a plane(3d model, including default skins(winter/summer) and additional armament(gunpods, pods etc) not yet seen during a session.

stalkervision
11-30-2009, 01:13 PM
Originally posted by Jaws2002:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stalkervision:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jaws2002:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stalkervision:
that's exactly why I stay out of that on-line rats nest. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Only when we go online we realize how much we really suck. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/crackwhip.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

so just how bad do you suck? J/2 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I didn't play IL-2 in over 4 months.....I royally suck. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif ...Not that I was any better before. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blush.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/disagree.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL! Well then you haven't got all that much worse. That's a plus right there. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Gibbage1
11-30-2009, 01:31 PM
I find that there a lot of point ***** smack-tards that tend to get a little butt-hurt when something goes wrong.

Sorry, but stuff happens. I have been known too chew out a few nubs when they did something stupid, but some people only play for the points. Its a team game! Play for the team!

Here is an example. Im doing high cap over our runway, and I see an enemy BF-110 diving down to make a bomb run, and a friend picking at him. The friend sets him alight, but doesent "finish" the kill. The BF-110 is still intent on dropping his eggs before the enevitable happens, and ther are about 5 friends that just spawned in. So I dive my P-63 down, and brake his wing off before he gets his bombs off. So now I have 1 smacktard chewing me out for "stealing his kill". Whatever. Im playing for the team. I just saved a bunch of lives.

Then, soon I find him on my six filling me with holes. Well if he's a point *****, he just lost a LOT. I auger in (-1000 for him!) and inform the admin.

This sort of thing is why I mostly play in online campaigns.