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View Full Version : Sticky future for Airfix...



MrBlueSky1960
08-31-2006, 08:42 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/5301438.stm

p1ngu666
08-31-2006, 08:46 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

LeOs.K_Walstein
08-31-2006, 08:55 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Billy_BigBoy
08-31-2006, 08:56 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif Sad news, man http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

JG52Uther
08-31-2006, 08:58 AM
Just caught it on the news.A sad day indeed.

ploughman
08-31-2006, 09:06 AM
Airfix have been a burning blob of plastic on floor before and yet rose phoenix like to grace the shelves of toy stores the world over, they'll be back.

GerritJ9
08-31-2006, 09:12 AM
The very first model I ever built was the Airfix Albatross D.V and countless others followed. A sad day indeed- hope they manage to refloat the company somehow.

Flying_Nutcase
08-31-2006, 09:19 AM
_____
Since 1949, generations of children have struggled over plastic kit parts and tubes of glue.
_____

Maybe "enthused" would have been a better word?

+1 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

berg417448
08-31-2006, 10:06 AM
So sad...as a youth I built literally hundreds of model aircraft. Maybe I should go grab a kit before they are gone ...just to remember old times.

cmw1980
08-31-2006, 10:29 AM
Originally posted by berg417448:
So sad...as a youth I built literally hundreds of model aircraft. Maybe I should go grab a kit before they are gone ...just to remember old times.

Good idea. Kids today? Too many video games... shame. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Billy_BigBoy
08-31-2006, 10:33 AM
Just checked my shelves. I found an Airfix Spitfire Mk. I (Alan Deere's markings), 1:24, still in the box. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Fox_3
08-31-2006, 10:34 AM
A sad day. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

hotspace
08-31-2006, 10:34 AM
That's terrible news http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

DuxCorvan
08-31-2006, 10:46 AM
Airfix, Heller, Matchbox... those names mark my childhood. My dad was an avid kit builder. I had my house literally full of models made by him, and big boxes full of cals, plastic pieces, decorated box fronts and instruction sheets. I grew among Humbrol enamels, cutters, polyestirene glue... my elder brother and me inherited the hobby. If I only had more space I would go on with that passion...

It's so sad seeing Airfix fading along with so many memories, building kits with my bro and daddy, my fingers sticky, a wet cloth smelling of thinner, a big reading lamp making me sweat...

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

general_kalle
08-31-2006, 10:59 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

i got about 20 airfix models. Bismark 10-15 planes and 5 tanks http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

leitmotiv
08-31-2006, 11:07 AM
First Airfix kit I bought was HMS HOOD in the City of Paris department store (long defunct) in San Francisco, California, in 1961 or '62. The Roy Cross box tops for the Hampden, Blenheim, and Battle from '68-9 were classics.

bienenbaer
08-31-2006, 11:45 AM
Sad indeed.

As a child, I had several Airfix kits: HMS Daring, HMS Iron Duke, Queen Elizabeth, the Arado Sea plane, and some others...

A 1:72 Airfix FW-190D is still unassembled somwhere in the cellar.

Hope very much that the company recovers.

Daiichidoku
08-31-2006, 02:37 PM
they need to release an updated PC game "airfix dogfighter"http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://pc.ign.com/objects/015/015571.html

Col._King
08-31-2006, 02:45 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Thanks God I still have some 60 kits still in the box from Airfix. Will rush to the model shop to purchase a few more....

What a sad news.....

Divine-Wind
08-31-2006, 03:05 PM
Originally posted by Daiichidoku:
they need to release an updated PC game "airfix dogfighter"http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://pc.ign.com/objects/015/015571.html
I bet the flight models are p0rked. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif


OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOM GOMGOMGOMGOMG


BLACK WIDOOOOOOOOOWWWW!!!

Bo_Nidle
08-31-2006, 07:48 PM
It is sad to see the imminent demise of such an established company.

However I do wonder wether they have paid the price for not competing effectively with the Japanese companies such as Hasegawa and Tamiya.

Airfix kits were substantially lower priced but they also suffered from a lack of sophistication and other companies kept up to date with their moulds and production techniques over more of their range. Revell in particular updated their 1/72nd scale range with excellent detail but kept them at a low price.

However the most damaging factor was totally out of their control with the games console and PC diverting youngsters away from the hobby. I would not think that any model company is having an easy time at the moment.

As has been said, Airfix have been on the ropes before so hopefully they will manage to bounce back this time too.

WWMaxGunz
08-31-2006, 08:12 PM
There's card-paper models to fall back on, the best patterns I've seen come from Poland
but are very difficult to build. Fiddlers' Green models are not easy but easier and you
can get CD's loaded with patterns pretty cheap... a nice start till/if you get really
good.

And then there's this twist on the paper models using plated aluminum from cans, look at the
lower pictures esp the B-25.

http://www.fiddlersgreen.net/wsam/sodacans/sodacans.htm

From the Can-Du book, some beer cans are gold color plated under the paint to bring up tones.
the Can-Du site is down or I'd link to that, I hope the book is still available. Mine ran
like $17 shipped years ago. The guy that wrote it retired from Boeing where he skinned
planes.

Feathered_IV
08-31-2006, 09:47 PM
*sniff*


139 is still a bit of a magic number for me.
As a kid $1.39 was the going price for a series one kit and the golden number for my pocket money savings.

Sad to see them go http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

leitmotiv
08-31-2006, 10:06 PM
Right you are, Bo_Nidle. Airfix kept peddling kits which were not very good even in their '60's heyday for decades, and only recently have they waked to the fact they needed to try to catch up. Their TSR was a smart move---a guaranteed favorite with the home audience. The forthcoming Nimrod and Canberra would have been big sellers. Their new policy of short run kits was maybe a good idea. On the upside, Trumpeter just made the mother of all Wellington ICs and, I assure everybody, it is the best 1:48 WWII bomber ever released. I can't believe it---it is a beauty. Azur, MPM, and Special Hobby have been steadily doing relatively modern moldings of the Airfix and Frog classics. Classic Airframes has been the best thing for British aircraft since the heyday of Airfix and Frog.

You are right about card models, WWMaxGunz. I like the huge, 1:200 scale, warships. Where on earth for less than $3,000.00 custom made are you going to get a 1:200 scale LEXINGTON or KING GEORGE V which looks like a museum model?

jolly_magpie
08-31-2006, 10:55 PM
Not surprising as the plastic kit industry, and hobbies in general have taken a real hit in the last 10 years. All because of what I'm typing on right now!

I built a bunch of Airfix...and then got a nasty shock when I built my first Japanese kit, a 1/48 Dambuster Lancaster. What fit! What detail! I knew the game was up and that was in 1978.

leitmotiv
09-01-2006, 12:29 AM
Unfortunately Airfix never made that transition---even their brand new TSR has been (sentimentally) compared to a "classic" Airfix kit---meaning not state-of-the-art. I remember the Airfix 1:24 scale Hurricane from the mid-'70's---it was 30 years ahead of its time except for fat wingtips and some horrible fit foul-ups. Airfix seemed to be on its way to trying to reinvent itself as a niche company doing limited-run kits. This was the exact opposite of the old Airfix which tried to make inexpensive, good models for the masses. Sic transit....

Great, imaginative stuff jolly_magpie!

madsarmy
09-01-2006, 02:34 AM
It's sad news about Airfix but they only have themselves to blame. Their kits where P*ss Poor quality. Took several back only to find that the replacement was the same.
Top & bottom of wing did not match, fuselage did not match etc etc.

F6_Ace
09-01-2006, 03:10 AM
Originally posted by Flying_Nutcase:
_____
Since 1949, generations of children have struggled over plastic kit parts and tubes of glue.
_____

Maybe "enthused" would have been a better word?

+1 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

If you think that's bad, you should have seen the BBC TV news article about it where they had a couple of console players 'jokily' mess around with a kit for a while before giving in and declaring it 'too much trouble.'

No wonder there's little interest in engineering etc these days - most kids have zero seconds attention span and would rather wreck stuff than build something.

It's a shame but it's market forces for you - maybe if Airfix had realised that they needed to "go upmarket" and target the hardcore modellers who were bothered about there being the right number of rivets on a particular panel then they could have survived?

ploughman
09-01-2006, 03:19 AM
Don't panic just yet

"Iconic model-maker name Airfix faces an uncertain future following parent firm Humbrol's entry into administration."

Humbrol's called in the receivers but maybe Airfix is fine and'll be sold off as the family silver, so to speak. It's a sticky wicket, but with a little ball tampering nobody needs to lose any Hair over this.

Low_Flyer_MkVb
09-01-2006, 04:04 AM
I never did get around to this one. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/Low_Flyer/14780.jpg


While it's a wonderful thing to lookat a model and say 'I built that', I find it much more convenient and less frustrating to collect pre-assembled and painted die-casts. When you compare the cost to the time, glue paint and sandpaper etc, it ain't too bad.

I do agree that the potential demise of Airfix would deny present and future generations of another part of growing up most British kids go through. Conkers, spud guns, jumpers for goalposts...all gone the same way.

partic_3
09-01-2006, 04:16 AM
Airfix IS my childhood!
The boxtop art was so evocative...

"lose any Hair over this" - I appreciate your topical cricket jokes! Precious few will.

OD_79
09-01-2006, 05:31 AM
http://uk.biz.yahoo.com/01092006/140/railway-firm-steam-airfix.html

Problem could be solved.

OD

DuxCorvan
09-01-2006, 10:29 AM
Originally posted by madsarmy:
It's sad news about Airfix but they only have themselves to blame. Their kits where P*ss Poor quality. Took several back only to find that the replacement was the same.
Top & bottom of wing did not match, fuselage did not match etc etc.

Well, they have the bad use -many old kit companies have- of reusing very old -and weary-casts to release again old catalogue models, instead of creating a new, up-to-the-times, kit. That way, new good quality companies -such as Tamiya and others- took them out of the market.

A pity, anyway. There was a time when Airfix really had a monopoly.

BiscuitKnight
09-01-2006, 11:02 AM
Funny, I see computers/consoles blamed for the death of other hobbies, and yet the number of people who spend large amounts of time on either of those two would be dwarfed by the number who spend more time "kickin' tha' footy".

Also, never really made models myself or know them, or know people who talked about it, but the starting age would be 10 or 12, through to? Because the way I see it, boozing replaces virtually all passtimes past age 15 with most people I know. So if 15+ was still a model age... you get the idea

I guess this might only apply to the area of Victoria I live in, but I get the impression it's common throughout at least Australia. That's the problem, but everyone takes it out on computers http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

DuxCorvan
09-01-2006, 11:16 AM
Biscuit, I gave up making them when I had to move out of my parent's house and ran out of space. I was 30 by then.

Kit building is wonderful, but your models need space, specially if you make a lot of them. Women are not precisely charmed by them, and then, you can rarely give them out -not many people want them, nor can you simply throw them to trash -it breaks your heart. You must stop the factory.

I wished I had the huge houses and garages some of you -specially the US people- seem to have. I live in a flat, and models aren't welcome. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

BiscuitKnight
09-01-2006, 11:25 AM
Originally posted by DuxCorvan:
Biscuit, I gave up making them when I had to move out of my parent's house and ran out of space. I was 30 by then.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif


Kit building is wonderful, but your models need space, specially if you make a lot of them. Women are not precisely charmed by them, and then, you can rarely give them out -not many people want them, nor can you simply throw them to trash -it breaks your heart. You must stop the factory.

I wished I had the huge houses and garages some of you -specially the US people- seem to have. I live in a flat, and models aren't welcome. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Interesting. It'd be nice to have a model of an F-4C and/or Victor on a shelf, I think, but I haven't given it much thought, and I'd only make a mess of it... shaky hands and whatnot.

Still, you see my point about alcohol, no? Spend every cent on it and every hour drinking or wearing off hangovers - no time or money for models. Most of the people I speak to are running Pentium IIIs at best, and cursing them for being slow. Hard to convince them that a Duron/Athlon or Celeron (ack!) and cost only a tithe of what the constant repairs and anguish are worth.

leitmotiv
09-01-2006, 04:02 PM
For those disinclined to build the things, Corgi has an excellent line of 1:144, 1:72, and 1:32 scale airplanes made in China. The recent Wellington IC and Canberra are excellent as is their Typhoon.

http://www.flyingmule.com/products/CG-AA36502

danjama
09-01-2006, 05:02 PM
Shame about Airfix as they are the model company we all love to remember from the younger days, but their models were poor quality compared to others like Revel.

I still have a 32 scale mk14 spit i made a couple years back. One of my few airfixes i can say i actually am proud of!

DuxCorvan
09-01-2006, 05:46 PM
Well, you could 'fix' almost any Airfix defect by clever use of 'putty'. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

WWMaxGunz
09-01-2006, 07:57 PM
I think you guys would freak at the cost of a series of injection molds even without the
cost of cutting the graphite to edm in the cavities. You might do with one big mold if
you have really big injection machines though.

leitmotiv
09-01-2006, 08:03 PM
I spent months on the Airfix Blenheim in '95. Sanded it and sanded it. Puttied and puttied. By the time I'd had enough it looked like a Blenheim but the effort was ridiculous. Carving from wood would have been quicker and easier. Went through it with their Stirling six years ago. Same as the Blenheim---sand, sand, putty, putty. Let's face it, the '60's were not the Golden Age of plastic models---they were the Dark Ages.

WWMaxGunz
09-01-2006, 09:34 PM
http://www.marcle.co.uk/cataloguehome.html

UK company that sells kits from all over. Not plastic, cardstock. And you do have to cut and
sand and fit but the end result from many of the kits is very high quality. Where it says
Aircraft - Poland, it is not Polish planes (well.. some) but models from Polish makers.

They have a newsletter and posted some of the kit reviews, here is one on a JSC P-51 kit;

http://www.marcle.co.uk/mustang.html

JSC is I believe a Polish company.

Also from Poland and a bit of piece de resistance is this review of an I-16 model;

http://hsfeatures.com/features04/i16cardsim_1.html

It is beautiful but don't anybody show Oleg! These things EAT time!

leitmotiv
09-01-2006, 10:05 PM
Eat time they do. I used to buy from from Marcle when I lived in London. Now I buy direct from Poland Central---GPM. The Halinski I-16 is, without doubt, the best, most accurate I-16 in creation. Here's some images which ought to convince any doubters (all the airplanes are 1:33 scale, the military vehicles are 1:25 scale, and the ships are 1:200 scale):

http://www.halinski.com.pl/indexgb.php?link=7

GPM link:

http://gpm.pl/eng/

Cheers!

Rickustyit
09-02-2006, 03:53 AM
Damn , what a sad news...
I grep up builing many Airfix models here in Italy,and I am just 24 years old.
Just bought a 1/35 Tiger I model from Tamiya the other day (don't have enough money to buy that beast fo R/C 1/16 Tiger I tank from them!).

Really, most youngsters really know only video-games...

Sad sad news.
R

panther3485
09-02-2006, 04:05 AM
Originally posted by BiscuitKnight:
Funny, I see computers/consoles blamed for the death of other hobbies, and yet the number of people who spend large amounts of time on either of those two would be dwarfed by the number who spend more time "kickin' tha' footy".

Also, never really made models myself or know them, or know people who talked about it, but the starting age would be 10 or 12, through to? Because the way I see it, boozing replaces virtually all passtimes past age 15 with most people I know. So if 15+ was still a model age... you get the idea

I guess this might only apply to the area of Victoria I live in, but I get the impression it's common throughout at least Australia. That's the problem, but everyone takes it out on computers http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif


That depends on whether you're a 'kid modeller' or a 'life modeller'.

I'm a life modeller myself, as are a number of my friends and acquaintances. We all recognize a familiar pattern:

Age 8-12. This is the time that most modellers started in the hobby (I started at 8). We nearly all started out as 'kid modellers'.

Age 12-16. This is the age range where, if the kid stuck with the hobby, his interest and skills reached their youthful peak.

Age 16-early 20's. Testosterone has fully kicked in and modelling tends to fall by the wayside because it's now all about cars, beer and women (not necessarily in that order).

Mid 20's - late 20's. Most guys who are now around my age married/settled at this stage in their lives. Usually before age 30, if you were keen as a youth, the interest in modelling is re-kindled and you take up the hobby once again, this time much more seriously than before. You are now the archetypical 'adult hobbyist'. We are a minority, but no so small a minority as to be insignificant because we do keep the 'core enthusiast' part of the industry going.


Having founded and run a modelling club since 1979 and having seen a couple or so 'generations' of kids develop their skills, I know the pattern only too well. But the pattern has now started to break up and the average age of the adult enthusiast is now considerably higher than it was before. Why?

The long-term problem for the hobby is, that most 'life' modellers start out as 'kid modellers' and kids just aren't taking up the hobby like they used to. When they do try to have a go at it, in many cases the parents are not oriented that way either, because a good number of today's younger parents were growing up at the beginning of these changes we are seeing.

This is at least partly due to the much greater array of what I'd call 'ready-made' or 'push-button' entertainment available today, a trend that has been on-going since the time I was a kid but which has mushroomed significantly over the last couple of decades.

Somebody else observed a tendency to shorter attention spans. I'm doubtful if that could be substantiated on a scientific basis but there is little doubt in my mind that many modern forms of entertainment and gaming have tended to encourage a culture of 'instant gratification' in today's children and young adults, which probably doesn't help.

Is this overall trend necessarily a bad thing? Maybe not. Who knows? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif


Best regards to all, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
panther3485

Low_Flyer_MkVb
09-02-2006, 04:14 AM
I think you've got a point there Panther - it's not just good ol' placcy modelling that has fallen victim to modern expectations - food, clothing, even gardening has succumbed to this 'I want it now' attitude - people used to do it themselves once upon a time, and I think we were better off for it. Was a time kids would make their own fun, nowadays they want (or maybe thet're told they want) the fun handed to them on a plate. I suppose I'm not entirely free from guilt with my ever expanding Corgi collection...lovely Spits though.

panther3485
09-02-2006, 04:18 AM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
I spent months on the Airfix Blenheim in '95. Sanded it and sanded it. Puttied and puttied. By the time I'd had enough it looked like a Blenheim but the effort was ridiculous. Carving from wood would have been quicker and easier. Went through it with their Stirling six years ago. Same as the Blenheim---sand, sand, putty, putty. Let's face it, the '60's were not the Golden Age of plastic models---they were the Dark Ages.

In terms of the quality of the kits themselves, compared to what's available today, I'd certainly agree.

But paradoxically, things have gone the opposite way in terms of participation and enthusiasm, percentage wise, because there are so many more attractive and tempting things to choose from today.

I would say that in those terms, the 'golden age' is most definitely well behind us. I can't see it dying out in a hurry but it is becoming increasingly a 'niche' market. Sad (from my POV at least) but that's the way it is.


Best regards, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
panther3485

panther3485
09-02-2006, 04:21 AM
Originally posted by Low_Flyer_MkVb:
I think you've got a point there Panther - it's not just good ol' placcy modelling that has fallen victim to modern expectations - food, clothing, even gardening has succumbed to this 'I want it now' attitude - people used to do it themselves once upon a time, and I think we were better off for it. Was a time kids would make their own fun, nowadays they want (or maybe thet're told they want) the fun handed to them on a plate. I suppose I'm not entirely free from guilt with my ever expanding Corgi collection...lovely Spits though.

I think, to be fair, we've all succumbed to a certain extent. And that does have some good points about it. But it does also have a few negatives, IMHO.

Kurfurst__
09-02-2006, 04:33 AM
It's a pity for Airfix, like for many others, they were responsible for my first kits as well (not that I have made so many...). But, I can see why they come to this way, recalling how much little work, polishing, putty you had to make their models to fit.

Then I got that Tamiya Tiger II and couldn't believe that such quality and details can be made, where even large elements fit perfectly, and re-touching the elements by yourself is generally just a way to give youself extra work for fixing your own mistakes. Never heard after Airfix after that, until now.

leitmotiv
09-02-2006, 05:06 AM
Get the new, revised Dragon 1:35 scale Porsche Tiger II, Kurfurst, it will blow your mind to fragments.

I suspect the hobby is not dying because there never have been so many models being made---the selection now is staggering, positively staggering. Premium kits are hitting the market weekly. The after-market trade is gigantic. Can't just be single geezers with lots of ready such as I. Another thing, despite the price of oil going ballistic in the last few months, the price of kits has remained stable. I remember the gigantic hits the price of plastic models took in '73 and '79---it was awful. This would seem to indicate the companies are making enough profit to give the buyers a break instead of hammering them. As far as I am concerned, the plastic modeling has never been better---the only thing worse is my blasted eyesight.

panther3485
09-02-2006, 05:06 AM
Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
It's a pity for Airfix, like for many others, they were responsible for my first kits as well (not that I have made so many...). But, I can see why they come to this way, recalling how much little work, polishing, putty you had to make their models to fit.

Then I got that Tamiya Tiger II and couldn't believe that such quality and details can be made, where even large elements fit perfectly, and re-touching the elements by yourself is generally just a way to give youself extra work for fixing your own mistakes. Never heard after Airfix after that, until now.

Yep, the Tamiya Tiger II was a great kit when it was first released. But even that standard has been surpassed since. Checked out some of the latest 1/35 tank kits, Kurfurst? If you were impressed with the Tamiya Tiger II, some of the latest offerings will really blow you away, mate! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif


Best regards, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
panther3485

luftluuver
09-02-2006, 05:12 AM
Originally posted by Low_Flyer_MkVb:
I think you've got a point there Panther - it's not just good ol' placcy modelling that has fallen victim to modern expectations - food, clothing, even gardening has succumbed to this 'I want it now' attitude - people used to do it themselves once upon a time, and I think we were better off for it. Was a time kids would make their own fun, nowadays they want (or maybe thet're told they want) the fun handed to them on a plate. I suppose I'm not entirely free from guilt with my ever expanding Corgi collection...lovely Spits though. Add in the eye candy in sims.

Panther, what kid can afford a plastic kit these days?

panther3485
09-02-2006, 05:17 AM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
Get the new, revised Dragon 1:35 scale Porsche Tiger II, Kurfurst, it will blow your mind to fragments.

I suspect the hobby is not dying because there never have been so many models being made---the selection now is staggering, positively staggering. Premium kits are hitting the market weekly. The after-market trade is gigantic. Can't just be single geezers with lots of ready such as I. Another thing, despite the price of oil going ballistic in the last few months, the price of kits has remained stable. I remember the gigantic hits the price of plastic models took in '73 and '79---it was awful. As far as I am concerned, the plastic modeling has never been better---the only thing worse is my blasted eyesight.

In terms of the percentage of population that are 'serious' adult modellers, the market has definitely narrowed but there are other factors at work. Prices of kits (in real terms) have dropped, the quality has improved and the core of hobbyists is being well looked after.

Also, it's not just 'single geezers' with money, it's the married ones too - with many strategies to placate their wives or even 'hide' the stuff they buy (many are the jokes about 'sneaking in' with one's latest purchase. Not always entirely joking!)

In most Western countries, people are generally more prosperous than ever before so the disposable income is there, even if the overall market share is relatively smaller. The existing industry is hanging on very well. They'll be around for a long time yet.

Just no so many youngesters getting into the hobby as there used to be. This trend is undeniable.

Am I worried? Guess not, as long as I can continue to get the stuff I want and it looks as if I'll be able to. Future generations? Who knows, but based on current trends and demographics the market still looks like it's going to continue to shrink, unless there is some sort of unforseen revival.


Best regards, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
panther3485

panther3485
09-02-2006, 05:21 AM
Originally posted by luftluuver:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Low_Flyer_MkVb:
I think you've got a point there Panther - it's not just good ol' placcy modelling that has fallen victim to modern expectations - food, clothing, even gardening has succumbed to this 'I want it now' attitude - people used to do it themselves once upon a time, and I think we were better off for it. Was a time kids would make their own fun, nowadays they want (or maybe thet're told they want) the fun handed to them on a plate. I suppose I'm not entirely free from guilt with my ever expanding Corgi collection...lovely Spits though. Add in the eye candy in sims.

Panther, what kid can afford a plastic kit these days? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've done the sums on this. In real terms, the price of an entry level plastic kit for a kid is about the same now as it was in the 1960's. In western societies, kids generally have more disposable income today than they've ever had before. Thing is, what do they want to spend it on? And what is the range of choices that are available?

Sure, plastic modelling CAN be an expensive hobby, but it doesn't necessarily have to be. With the proper guidance, kids can model on a budget and I have shown many how to do just that. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


Best regards, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
panther3485

leitmotiv
09-02-2006, 05:27 AM
When I see how much middle class American parents spend on amusements for their kids, I don't think that plastic models are out of range. One impediment here is that some parents go ape at the idea of their kids sitting in one place for more than twenty minutes---unless doing homework. With the death of history teaching, history films, and history on TV, models become "irrelevant," or part of a distant past to which they have no connection. The trendy videogames shows treat WWII as dreary, overdone, and less interesting than fantasy. To the people of my generation, WWII was the biggest thing that ever happened. We grew up with the veterans when they were still young and their memories still vivid.

BiscuitKnight
09-02-2006, 05:28 AM
IRT Panther

At least where I am, I'm not seeing it as being the computer's fault. You might as well blame sports and motorbikes because I'll wager my rig that they take way more time than computers. I've certainly heard of enough kids with motorbikes or that spend every second playing Cricket or Australian Rules Football, but the number of people who have computers and play them regularly I could list on my left hand.

You also might want to take a look at parenting and homework loading. If you give a 10 year old an hour of homework, he's got a 9PM bedtime, he gets home at 5PM one day, later on the others because of soccer training and say playing an instrument. By the time you factor everything in he gets only a few hours a week of leisure time at home, and so has little interest in doing something that is highly time consuming.

Just a thought.

panther3485
09-02-2006, 06:13 AM
Originally posted by BiscuitKnight:
IRT Panther
"At least where I am, I'm not seeing it as being the computer's fault."

If by computer, you mean PC alone, then I'd probably agree that's only a small factor. But a much bigger factor with most kids I know is gaming consoles (PS2, XBox and Gamecube). Among the youngsters I'm familiar with - workmates families, friends and relatives - these tend to dominate the leisure time of kids from around 8 to 14/15 years of age, at least the boys. Of course, that will always be to the extent that parents allow it, but most parents I know allow it quite a lot.

Females tend to be rather different, but for the most part they don't build models either so we're talking about a male thing here.



Originally posted by BiscuitKnight:
"You might as well blame sports and motorbikes because I'll wager my rig that they take way more time than computers."

For most of the boys I know (and I know quite a lot), video gaming is definitely dominant in their leisure time. It out-guns modelling and other manually creative leisure passtimes by factors of dozens to one, if not hundreds to one. And that is most definitely a NEW phenomenon.

Sport has always been present in young people's lives, as long as I've been alive. Organized sport is nearly always through schools, local sporting associations etc and needs parental support/involvement, even if it's only paying fees and taking your kid to training etc. That part of sport having always been there as a constant factor, I don't see how it can be attributed more or less now than it was before.

Then there is 'casual' sport, the kind where your son and his mates kick a football around or play cricket in the local park. I've witnessed some decline in this and other physically vigorous outdoor activities with kids today. The factors are complex and not just down to screen-based entertainement by any means. But the dramatic increase in childhood obesity does cause concern and is partly due to a real decrease in physical activity, combined with diet changes and more time spent indoors in front of screens! I believe that Australia is not far behind the USA in this problem.



Originally posted by BiscuitKnight:
"I've certainly heard of enough kids with motorbikes or that spend every second playing Cricket or Australian Rules Football"

These days, I see a few kids with motorbikes where there were NONE when I was a kid. But kids generally are less physically active than they were a generation ago, much less so than two generations ago and it's really starting to show in their rapidly mushrooming obesity levels and general lack of fitness. I know very, very few kids who are as physically active as you describe. They are definitely a minority, against the general trend that's been documented in many Western countries, including Australia.


Originally posted by BiscuitKnight:
"....but the number of people who have computers and play them regularly I could list on my left hand."

If you count the gaming consoles as well, I only know of TWO families whose boys do not have them. All the remaining households I know of with boys aged 8-14 (and there are many dozens of those) have at least one gaming console that the boys play regulary, in some cases constantly.




Originally posted by BiscuitKnight:
"You also might want to take a look at parenting and homework loading. If you give a 10 year old an hour of homework, he's got a 9PM bedtime, he gets home at 5PM one day, later on the others because of soccer training and say playing an instrument. By the time you factor everything in he gets only a few hours a week of leisure time at home, and so has little interest in doing something that is highly time consuming."

There is some validity in your point about the homework loading, which has increased. At one time, primary school kids didn't get homework - that was for high school.

But most school kids I know are home between 3.15 to 4.00 pm most days and if they do soccer, little athletics or whatever that's generally one, or at most two times per week training.

Then, for the boys, when they get leisure time it's often - you guessed it - the gaming console!

Yes, parenting DOES play a large role, but my finding is that these days, all too many parents are very happy with the 'One-eyed square-headed babysitter.' http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


Best regards, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
panther3485

WWMaxGunz
09-02-2006, 07:08 AM
Most of my kid kits were Monogram and Revel with I guess a couple of Tamiyas.
I also did one balsa plane on my own and learned a bit about stresses turning into twists.
Way back my Dad helped me on my first model, a popsicle-stick boat when I was all of five.
My first model plane was a Spad with maybe 5" wingspan if that but it was my coolest toy
until....

What happens to models for some? Between younger sibs and your Mom there may be no chance
to keep one past 2-3 years if you're real lucky. That goes for just about everything in my
case, I have very little left from those days. That's why I got into learning, knowledge is
hard to steal and destroy or sell or just throw out. The last point for kid models came for
me when I was told get rid of them or they'd be thrown and I got myself some fireworks and
the BB pistol. Might as well have some fun, right?

It's better to have the quality kits and control of your own space. Just don't wait till you
can't see what you're doing or keep the pieces steady trying to put them together. Have the
good ones together before then.

Kurfurst__
09-02-2006, 07:19 AM
Originally posted by panther3485:
Yep, the Tamiya Tiger II was a great kit when it was first released. But even that standard has been surpassed since. Checked out some of the latest 1/35 tank kits, Kurfurst? If you were impressed with the Tamiya Tiger II, some of the latest offerings will really blow you away, mate! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Best regards, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
panther3485

Luv to, unfortunately I don't have that much time - still recalling half a day 'leave me alone' periods, hehe. That damned Tiger, I repainted it at least 6 times completely, not being satisfied. damned ambush patterns! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif So I've largely got out of the business a few years ago, though I'd love to put together a certain very late ww2 luftwaffe inline piston fighter, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif but appearantly not many of those make it to here from da Nippon. G10s are offered plenty though, but I can wait and it's not that much of a priority.

Any good suggestions for a good kit of the 109K? Think Hasegawa was making that subtype.

panther3485
09-02-2006, 07:23 AM
Originally posted by WWMaxGunz:
"Just don't wait till you
can't see what you're doing or keep the pieces steady trying to put them together. Have the
good ones together before then."

There's some validity in this, I feel.

I'm in my fifties now and my eyesight and steadiness of hand are starting to go off a little. Only slightly, but it's definitely happening. But in these very early stages of the ravages of old age, I can still find ways around it and produce good stuff. So I'm aiming to turn out quite a few more 'masterpieces', before I'm so old it's really just a passtime that gets thrown away afterwards! [Hopefully, I've still got a least another good decade in front of me!] http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif


Best regards, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
panther3485

panther3485
09-02-2006, 07:31 AM
Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
"Any good suggestions for a good kit of the 109K? Think Hasegawa was making that subtype."

All my aircraft modelling is in 1/48 scale these days (don't know what your preferences are for scale).

Yes, Hasegawa have a Bf 109K-4 in 1/48 scale (kit No. 09063). I have it at home as yet unbuilt, but if it's anything like the other couple of Hasegawa 109's I've already built it's going to be fairly good. Surface detail is good and crisp, mouldings are good quality and just about flash-free and I've dry-fitted all the major parts with no apparent problems.

Of course, these kits have been out a few years and I'm not up on the latest releases but I don't think you'd go too far wrong with this one, if you can get it!

I've always liked the 109 as a modelling subject and the lines of the aircraft are attractive to my eye.


Best regards, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
panther3485

WWMaxGunz
09-02-2006, 07:48 AM
I've seen sites years ago that offer kits to replace interior details of other good-quality
models. Things like cockpits and engines done to extreme detail where the original kits do
not. Hey, I knew one serious modeller who sent me links.

BiscuitKnight
09-02-2006, 08:00 AM
Originally posted by panther3485:
"If by computer, you mean PC alone, then I'd probably agree that's only a small factor. But a much bigger factor with most kids I know is gaming consoles (PS2, XBox and Gamecube). Among the youngsters I'm familiar with - workmates families, friends and relatives - these tend to dominate the leisure time of kids from around 8 to 14/15 years of age, at least the boys. Of course, that will always be to the extent that parents allow it, but most parents I know allow it quite a lot."

Well, again, I can only vouch for my corner of the world, but throughout Bendigo's 80,000 or so centralised population, I honestly get the impression that consoles outweigh computers (yep, the instant gratification thing I won't argue against: PCs means learning to use them and then installing, etc, before playing a game, whereas consoles are whack it in and play by comparison), but even then, time spent on consoles and number of people playing consoles, are overwhelmed by physical activities.


"Females tend to be rather different, but for the most part they don't build models either so we're talking about a male thing here."

:s who brought up Females for this discussion?


"For most of the boys I know (and I know quite a lot), video gaming is definitely dominant in their leisure time. It out-guns modelling and other manually creative leisure passtimes by factors of dozens to one, if not hundreds to one. And that is most definitely a NEW phenomenon."

Interesting, again, in my corner of the sport and other physical activities dominate everything. Sure, sport's not new, but just because computers are, it doesn't mean they're the source or even part of the instant gratification deal.


Sport has always been present in young people's lives, as long as I've been alive. Organized sport is nearly always through schools, local sporting associations etc and needs parental support/involvement, even if it's only paying fees and taking your kid to training etc. That part of sport having always been there as a constant factor, I don't see how it can be attributed more or less now than it was before.

Well, see, through my years at school, I saw an increase in sport/physcial "education". And IMHO that's a BAD thing. They cancelled our SOSE class and an English class for two more periods a week of PE. So, well, tell me, when you were at school, how many hours a week of PE did you do?

And no, that isn't leisure time, so it's not really what you asked, but I felt it was relevant. About out of school time spent on sport: I can't say it's increased. What I can say is that I see a lot of time on sport or motorbikes/bikes whatever, but I very, very, very rarely hear anyone say anything about consoles, even then it's only really PC users than spend a lot of time playing PC/consoles anyway. They'd class as more of a niche market. So unless modelling was only ever a very small group, I can see that it was eaten by recent things like computers/consoles. If it was then, well, maybe it's got less to do with Instant gratification or whatever, and more to do with the type of people who'd be into modelling.


"Then there is 'casual' sport, the kind where your son and his mates kick a football around or play cricket in the local park. I've witnessed some decline in this and other physically vigorous outdoor activities with kids today. The factors are complex and not just down to screen-based entertainement by any means. But the dramatic increase in childhood obesity does cause concern and is partly due to a real decrease in physical activity, combined with diet changes and more time spent indoors in front of screens! I believe that Australia is not far behind the USA in this problem."

You've seen a decline? I've heard some oldies say that "oh, mums drive their kiddies 100m to the bus stop now" blah blah such stuff, or that it's video games detracting from physical activity. But... I've lived a good 17 years, not much, no, but computers and consoles have proliferated a fair bit, yet I see no decline in my lifespan of sports, the opposite in fact, it seems that it's all pervading, filling more important subjects in school, encouraged on the radio and TV and forced down my throat like religious dogma.

As for more time in doors in front of screens causing this "obesity epidemic" - that's a stretch. I've heard a lot of theories, from the PM, to the head of AFL teams to schoolteachers to guys on forums, uncles, aunts, mothers, fathers, grandparents. I've seen no wide scale research into the problem, or answers for questions I pose. Example: I have been a shining example of what should be an obese child. I loathe sport, I abhorr that children are forced to play it in schools, I'm disgusted that we worship sports players like gods, and I love my computer, and have since I was quite young. Since I didn't get a helluva lot of exercise, I should be fat (note: mother fed me well though). Meanwhile, some of my athletically inclined friends were twice my weight. Que? How does that work. I do what not to do, they do what to do, and our weights are the opposite to expectations. I see as many overweight people in sports teams as I do in computer groups. I completely reject the dogma that childhood obesity is being caused by a lack of exercise, because I frequently see that isn't the case. Diet, perhaps, plays a larger part. But then why are some McEaters wiry, and others who eat Mc**** only rarely are fat? I see no connection, and no research.


"These days, I see a few kids with motorbikes where there were NONE when I was a kid. But kids generally are less physically active than they were a generation ago, much less so than two generations ago and it's really starting to show in their rapidly mushrooming obesity levels and general lack of fitness. I know very, very few kids who are as physically active as you describe. They are definitely a minority, against the general trend that's been documented in many Western countries, including Australia."

No see, you're seeing the opposite to me. Maybe I'm in backwards land. I know that radios don't work out near Eppalock. Maybe it's those darn aliens.

Tell me, if most kids aren't physically active, but primary school does four hours of PE per week, then there's the insanely full AusKick groups, and so forth, how is this minority covering for the rest?


"If you count the gaming consoles as well, I only know of TWO families whose boys do not have them. All the remaining households I know of with boys aged 8-14 (and there are many dozens of those) have at least one gaming console that the boys play regulary, in some cases constantly."

Sure, most families seem to have a PS2 or Xbox. It certainly plays a part of leisure time. But the idea of kids sitting glued to their screens all day and all night is as much a myth as the late 80s early 90s myth that kids all sat and watched TV all the time. The TV demon has been replaced by the even more vulnerable computer demon: Adults watch TV, but much fewer use computers for leisure, therefore, those who do are assuming the moral low ground.


"There is some validity in your point about the homework loading, which has increased. At one time, primary school kids didn't get homework - that was for high school.

But most school kids I know are home between 3.15 to 4.00 pm most days and if they do soccer, little athletics or whatever that's generally one, or at most two times per week training."

So you're saying in the past, say pre-1985, kids spent more than sixteen hours a week playing sport?


"Then, for the boys, when they get leisure time it's often - you guessed it - the gaming console!"

Again, I don't see it. When my nephew was here, he was more interested in the cricket bat and balls than my computer. Most of the guys in school derride anyone who wasn't on the football team as losers, and anyone who could use a computer as a nerd. Even in VCE I'm still a nerd, just I'm respected as a human being instead of a target for abuse now.


"Yes, parenting DOES play a large role, but my finding is that these days, all too many parents are very happy with the 'One-eyed square-headed babysitter.' http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


Best regards, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
panther3485"

Really? I'm seeing a lot of kids who spend their afternoons at after school programs while mummy and daddy work. Alas for parents like mine that thought a few hours alone would teach survival skills http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

squid1988
09-02-2006, 08:15 AM
I think your falling into the trap off judgeing all young peple to be the same.

I am 17 years old and find maodel making very intressting to the extent my room is full of kits and other related items

not all of us find hanging round on srteet corners hurling abuse at people fun either most people I know hate people like this just as much as anyone older

ploughman
09-02-2006, 08:18 AM
1988? I graduated High School in 1988. Now I feel old. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

BiscuitKnight
09-02-2006, 08:21 AM
Originally posted by Ploughman:
1988? I graduated High School in 1988. Now I feel old. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

That's because you are. Don't worry gramps, it happens to all of us. Now, which of these retirement villas best suits your tastes?

panther3485
09-02-2006, 11:08 AM
Originally posted by BiscuitKnight:
"Well, again, I can only vouch for my corner of the world, but throughout Bendigo's 80,000 or so centralised population, I honestly get the impression that consoles outweigh computers (yep, the instant gratification thing I won't argue against: PCs means learning to use them and then installing, etc, before playing a game, whereas consoles are whack it in and play by comparison)"

Looks like we're agreed there then; so far, so good.



Originally posted by BiscuitKnight:
"....but even then, time spent on consoles and number of people playing consoles, are overwhelmed by physical activities."

(a) I'm talking about children and, in particular, boys. Not all people.
(b) I'm referring to what boys generally tend to do in their leisure time, when sports are not being organized for them, when they are free to choose how to spend that leisure time.
(c) My perceptions are based on observations of children and their activities over a good number of decades in different capital cities around Australia.
(d) The overall trend towards somewhat less physical activity in leisure time, with more time spent on screen-based entertainment, is well recognized and has had tangible results. This trend among male children in particular tends to be dominated by gaming consoles.



Originally posted by BiscuitKnight:
"....who brought up Females for this discussion?"

I did, because I felt it was important to point out that my comments apply mostly to male children. The differences in behaviour patterns are important for the purpose of this discussion, as females by and large do not indulge in model kit building (there are a few, but they are exceptions to the norm). Also, they are considerably less inclined than males to spend long periods on gaming consoles, especially when they enter their teens. This doesn't necessarily translate to more physical activity, just different forms of sedentary activity.



"Originally posted by BiscuitKnight:
"Interesting, again, in my corner of the sport and other physical activities dominate everything."

Once again, I'm referring not to organized sport but what kids do in their leisure time. And organized sport has been pretty much a constant for kids over the last few generations at least. It's not a significantly bigger or smaller part of their lives now than it was before.



"Originally posted by BiscuitKnight:
"Sure, sport's not new, but just because computers are, it doesn't mean they're the source or even part of the instant gratification deal."


What's relatively new is the degree to which all of the audio/visual electronic media, including television, computers and gaming consoles, have come to dominate leisure time at home. Although this is by no means the whole 'instant gratification deal', it's definitely a part of it.


Most of the rest of your post has to do with questions relating to diet and exercise. If you have questions on these matters, may I suggest you refer them to the appropriate professional people. Otherwise, there is a thread on the forum dealing with that very topic. You might like to look in on it!


Best regards, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
panther3485

panther3485
09-02-2006, 11:17 AM
Originally posted by squid1988:
I think your falling into the trap off judgeing all young peple to be the same.

I am 17 years old and find maodel making very intressting to the extent my room is full of kits and other related items

not all of us find hanging round on srteet corners hurling abuse at people fun either most people I know hate people like this just as much as anyone older

Easy there, squid. Not judging young people at all here. Just making some observations about general trends in the way kids spend their leisure time now, compared to the way they used to. That's not a reflection on the kids in any way at all, but it is a reflection on the way our society has changed! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


Best regards, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
panther3485

panther3485
09-02-2006, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by BiscuitKnight:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ploughman:
1988? I graduated High School in 1988. Now I feel old. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

That's because you are. Don't worry gramps, it happens to all of us. Now, which of these retirement villas best suits your tastes? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sheesh! If he's 'gramps', then I must be 'great gramps'. I started Primary School in 1958 and graduated from High School in 1969!
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Low_Flyer_MkVb
09-02-2006, 12:52 PM
You old git! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

(Low Flyer, Panther and Ploughman waiting to get served.)

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/Low_Flyer/pic8_1024x768.jpg

ploughman
09-02-2006, 01:45 PM
Was it you what ordered the 'arves you old poof. No wonder Panther and me got chasers in when you went for a whizz.

Low_Flyer_MkVb
09-02-2006, 02:50 PM
And you know how long it takes me to go once my pills have kicked in, you buggers....

Anyway, back on topic - I picked up this little beauty this very afternoon as I patrolled the mean streets of old Weymouth town....ain't she cute? Corgi 1/72nd.

http://www.tricatus.co.uk/Images6/33007a.jpg

Trouble is it's thrown my strict collect British and Commonwealth only policy out of the window. My Bud Anderson P-51 was the exception that proves the rule up until now.

danjama
09-02-2006, 03:00 PM
Originally posted by Low_Flyer_MkVb:
And you know how long it takes me to go once my pills have kicked in, you buggers....

Anyway, back on topic - I picked up this little beauty this very afternoon as I patrolled the mean streets of old Weymouth town....ain't she cute? Corgi 1/72nd.

http://www.tricatus.co.uk/Images6/33007a.jpg

Trouble is it's thrown my strict collect British and Commonwealth only policy out of the window. My Bud Anderson P-51 was the exception that proves the rule up until now.

I managed to pick up a cool 48 scale Yak1B and a 48 scale FW190D today at Duxford, cant wait to make em. None of them are airfix though

Low_Flyer_MkVb
09-02-2006, 03:04 PM
I'd love to see the Yak, Dan; nothing against girlie 190's of course - it's just that Russkie stuff was something of a rarity to me in my modelling days. That's modelling as in plastic kits, you understand - although I could post some pic's of me on the catwalk if anyone's interested...

danjama
09-02-2006, 03:55 PM
Originally posted by Low_Flyer_MkVb:
I'd love to see the Yak, Dan; nothing against girlie 190's of course - it's just that Russkie stuff was something of a rarity to me in my modelling days. That's modelling as in plastic kits, you understand - although I could post some pic's of me on the catwalk if anyone's interested...

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Well, todat i saw plenty of Russian kits, including at least 6 Yak variants, il2/10's and various Migs, i think i even saw a Peshka. The thought occured to me that the gradual increase in appearances of Russian plane kits is probably largely due to the il2 series and Oleg Maddox http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

I'll try to find a picture of that Yak i bought.

Low_Flyer_MkVb
09-02-2006, 04:51 PM
Cheers Dan - look forward to it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Anyone here into those pre-assembled and painted 1/72nd plastic planes that go for for 6-7? They look quite nice in the display cabinet of my local toyshop. Some unusual - dare I say FB type - 'planes in the series; Finnish Hurries, Russian Spits, Romanian 109's etc.

panther3485
09-02-2006, 10:03 PM
Originally posted by Low_Flyer_MkVb:
You old git! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

(Low Flyer, Panther and Ploughman waiting to get served.)

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/Low_Flyer/pic8_1024x768.jpg

My spectacles look very different but otherwise, that bloke in the centre could be my cousin! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

panther3485
09-02-2006, 10:28 PM
Originally posted by Low_Flyer_MkVb:
And you know how long it takes me to go once my pills have kicked in, you buggers....

Anyway, back on topic - I picked up this little beauty this very afternoon as I patrolled the mean streets of old Weymouth town....ain't she cute? Corgi 1/72nd.

http://www.tricatus.co.uk/Images6/33007a.jpg

Trouble is it's thrown my strict collect British and Commonwealth only policy out of the window. My Bud Anderson P-51 was the exception that proves the rule up until now.

Nothing wrong with the American gear at all! I've got lots of it in my collection. And I built it and finished it all myself, none of this wimpy, namby-pamby, poofy, greenie tree-hugging, leftie, ready-built stocking-filler stuff! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

(It is quite nice, though!)

BiscuitKnight
09-02-2006, 10:41 PM
Originally posted by panther3485:

Looks like we're agreed there then; so far, so good.

(a) I'm talking about children and, in particular, boys. Not all people.

Sorry, so was I, I used a general term, my bad. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blush.gif


(b) I'm referring to what boys generally tend to do in their leisure time, when sports are not being organized for them, when they are free to choose how to spend that leisure time.
(c) My perceptions are based on observations of children and their activities over a good number of decades in different capital cities around Australia.
(d) The overall trend towards somewhat less physical activity in leisure time, with more time spent on screen-based entertainment, is well recognized and has had tangible results. This trend among male children in particular tends to be dominated by gaming consoles.

And here's the problem I guess: you're seeing quite a different picture to me. I guess Bendigo is the exception rather than the rule?



I did, because I felt it was important to point out that my comments apply mostly to male children. The differences in behaviour patterns are important for the purpose of this discussion, as females by and large do not indulge in model kit building (there are a few, but they are exceptions to the norm). Also, they are considerably less inclined than males to spend long periods on gaming consoles, especially when they enter their teens. This doesn't necessarily translate to more physical activity, just different forms of sedentary activity.

Sure, I see where you're going. I assumed we both knew that we were discussing males in this instance.



Once again, I'm referring not to organized sport but what kids do in their leisure time. And organized sport has been pretty much a constant for kids over the last few generations at least. It's not a significantly bigger or smaller part of their lives now than it was before.

Well, you'd know better than I if there's been an increase in sport, because after all, the next generation is only now quite young, depending on who raised this generation http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

But I'll maintain that in Bendigo at least, I've seen only an increase in time spend playing sport. When I was 10 or 12 or so, I can't remember, the Nintendo 64 came out. It was THE thing to have! But then, about half the families didn't have them, I'd say. Slowly more families got them. Now though, who doesn't have an Xbox or PS2. So the consoles have proliferated, and yet I'm still not seeing a decline of kids around the ovals and parks.


What's relatively new is the degree to which all of the audio/visual electronic media, including television, computers and gaming consoles, have come to dominate leisure time at home. Although this is by no means the whole 'instant gratification deal', it's definitely a part of it.

The instant gratification mentality may not have been caused by PCs and consoles at all, for all I've seen proven, it could be the culmination of a host of seemingly unrelated events. For example feminism, which lead to the dual income home, which lead to the whole pre-school and such industry, which lead to a completely different brand of parenting, and that might cause this instant gratification mentality, and PC/consoles are just riding the wave? I'm guessing, but aren't you, too?


Most of the rest of your post has to do with questions relating to diet and exercise. If you have questions on these matters, may I suggest you refer them to the appropriate professional people. Otherwise, there is a thread on the forum dealing with that very topic. You might like to look in on it!


Best regards, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
panther3485

Sure, I raised a lot of questions. But the thing is, the only answers I ever get are dogma: "Its video games! Kids spend all their time in front of screens, now, instead of out playing!" is probably the favorite. But why am I so thin I could play the xylophone on my ribcage? Why are some of my friends quite stocky, or even fat, but they play sport every waking moment?

The quick fix seems to be more sport, encourage sport, and blame "video games". After all, has there ever been an easier target for the blame game? What adult will come out and defend video games, and the adults who play them are such a minority that the majority can't be accused of hippocracy the way people could if it was about TV. After all, there are a fair few adults who spend their leisure time watching the idiot box.

I'll scan through the thread, to see if there are some real answers, but it doesn't change the fact that overall, the obesity problem is being handled like the typical political football: give it a simple cause that can be vilified, give it a simple solution that can be championed, and say "Here's the money! I'm looking out for YOUR interests!" and hey, you've got yourself a solid gold election promise. Just, twenty years down the track, nothing's fixed and we have a largely illiterate generation that never did geography or history, because the classes were replaced by sport.

leitmotiv
09-02-2006, 10:50 PM
As shown above, I continue to go through hell to get my models, but I am not averse to nabbing the occasional Corgi because (1) I refuse to go through another Airfix sandfest to get an all-white 1963 Vulcan II, (2) I thought their commendable Wellington IA was superior to the MPM IC (now I have two colossal Trumpeter IC boxes [actually, IAs, thankfully] glaring at me to build them),(3) (sinking into senescent second childhood) I think some of them are cute, and (4) I recognize I'd have to live 500 years to actually build all the models I want. So I have ceased looking down on reprobate Corgi etc buyers.

panther3485
09-02-2006, 10:50 PM
Originally posted by danjama:
"I managed to pick up a cool 48 scale Yak1B and a 48 scale FW190D today at Duxford, cant wait to make em. None of them are airfix though

Yeah, sounds similar to mine.

I got the 1/48 Accurate Miniatures (#3425) Yak-1b kit. In a word, its BEAUTIFUL. Most of their more recent kits are excellent.

My 1/48 Fw 190D-9 is the Tamiya kit (61041), which some modellers say is not one of their best but mine certainly came out very well, with no major dramas! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


Best regards, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
panther3485

panther3485
09-02-2006, 10:52 PM
Originally posted by Low_Flyer_MkVb:
I'd love to see the Yak, Dan; nothing against girlie 190's of course - it's just that Russkie stuff was something of a rarity to me in my modelling days. That's modelling as in plastic kits, you understand - although I could post some pic's of me on the catwalk if anyone's interested...

No thanks, but I'll take up the option on that cute chicky-babe bus driver, if she's available!

panther3485
09-02-2006, 11:17 PM
Originally posted by BiscuitKnight:
"And here's the problem I guess: you're seeing quite a different picture to me. I guess Bendigo is the exception rather than the rule?"


Possibly; I'm not familiar with Bendigo. My experience is almost entirely with Sydney, Melbourne and Perth, that is, the suburbs of those capital cities, since 1970. I have observed not just as a parent and adult citizen over all those years but also as a coach and trainer of children. I've seen quite a bit of change in three and a half decades.



"But I'll maintain that in Bendigo at least, I've seen only an increase in time spend playing sport. When I was 10 or 12 or so, I can't remember, the Nintendo 64 came out. It was THE thing to have! But then, about half the families didn't have them, I'd say. Slowly more families got them. Now though, who doesn't have an Xbox or PS2. So the consoles have proliferated, and yet I'm still not seeing a decline of kids around the ovals and parks."


Your observations of what kids do in and around Bendigo are fair enough as far as I'm concerned. I have next to no experience or observations regarding Bendigo.




"The instant gratification mentality may not have been caused by PCs and consoles at all, for all I've seen proven, it could be the culmination of a host of seemingly unrelated events. For example feminism, which lead to the dual income home, which lead to the whole pre-school and such industry, which lead to a completely different brand of parenting, and that might cause this instant gratification mentality, and PC/consoles are just riding the wave? I'm guessing, but aren't you, too?"


I've never taken the position that the electronic audio/visual media are wholly responsible for this phenomenon - that would be a very simplistic position to take and its obviously more complex than that. I merely observed that the ready availability, even saturation, of these things, combined with sometimes lax parenting, have helped to encourage it. A fair observation, I feel. Having said this, your notes about social change, including the rise of feminism, are also very likely to have had an effect on this equation so you have raised good points there! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif


As for the obesity problem, well, I have touched on that but only to illustrate that other changes are occurring that would appear to be connected in some ways to the main topic under discussion, but again this can be a very complex area and further discussion is really outside the scope of this thread. Suffice to say that while society does not yet have all the answers, research is ongoing and some very dedicated people are working on it. As of now, there is quite a lot that is known nevertheless. Many answers and much information is out there to be found, if you want to look for it. I could give you my 'take' on it, but I don't think you'd want that and it would be going OT for this thread.


Have enjoyed chatting with you, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
best regards, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif
panther3485

panther3485
09-02-2006, 11:22 PM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
As shown above, I continue to go through hell to get my models, but I am not averse to nabbing the occasional Corgi because (1) I refuse to go through another Airfix sandfest to get an all-white 1963 Vulcan II, (2) I thought their commendable Wellington IA was superior to the MPM IC (now I have two colossal Trumpeter IC boxes [actually, IAs, thankfully] glaring at me to build them),(3) (sinking into senescent second childhood) I think some of them are cute, and (4) I recognize I'd have to live 500 years to actually build all the models I want. So I have ceased looking down on reprobate Corgi etc buyers.

I don't really look down on people who collect 'ready-made' models - each to his own, I say! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif [I was only joking with LowFlyer.]

P.S. - I do fancy that Trumpeter 1/48 Wellington!

Lewicide
09-03-2006, 02:05 AM
I picked up an Airfix 1:24 Bf 109E just a few months ago after having built the spit 1A in my youth.
Guess I'll try and pick up the spit hurri Fw190, stuka and P-51 before they vanish.

Feathered_IV
09-03-2006, 03:46 AM
Originally posted by Ploughman:
1988? I graduated High School in 1988. Now I feel old. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Ouch! Me too http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/1072.gif

Must be all the time spent working as a jeweller, but I've become a magpie for these little (and I mean little) 1/144th scale monitor mascots comming out of Japan lately:

Most, such as those from Bandai, Takara and F-Toys come ready-made and could sit on a matchbox http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif


http://www.toshis.net/models/images/144fm2_01_04.jpg

http://www.toshis.net/models/images/144fm2_01_02.jpg

http://octgon.hp.infoseek.co.jp/BF109GK/109-link/Bf109G6-b6k.jpg

http://www61.tok2.com/home/uruseikai/144/144ftoyssouhatu/hs129b2ftoys01.jpg

http://octgon.hp.infoseek.co.jp/Fw190D/JV44red1-link/Fw190D-JV44red1h.jpg

Sort of like aviation Netsuke http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

Low_Flyer_MkVb
09-03-2006, 05:24 AM
Those tiddlers look really nice, Feathered. Great detail for their size.

Feathered_IV
09-03-2006, 05:57 AM
They're great wee things http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
On the plus side, they cost next to nothing, and their size lets you sneak them into the house without the missus ever twigging on http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Ebay is full of them http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

leitmotiv
09-03-2006, 11:20 AM
The Japanese company Sweet makes 1:144 scale plastic models which must be constructed but they are hideously well detailed. I like Corgi's !:144 bomber collection---their B-52s are wonderful as is the 1963 (white) V-Bomber set. I always wanted a SAC aluminum and white STRANGELOVE B-52---YEEEEEHOOOOOOOOOOOO!

danjama
09-03-2006, 03:45 PM
Originally posted by panther3485:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by danjama:
"I managed to pick up a cool 48 scale Yak1B and a 48 scale FW190D today at Duxford, cant wait to make em. None of them are airfix though

Yeah, sounds similar to mine.

I got the 1/48 Accurate Miniatures (#3425) Yak-1b kit. In a word, its BEAUTIFUL. Most of their more recent kits are excellent.

My 1/48 Fw 190D-9 is the Tamiya kit (61041), which some modellers say is not one of their best but mine certainly came out very well, with no major dramas! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


Best regards, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
panther3485 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

aye it is the accurate miniatures Yak, and the FW190 is Revell...

Couldnt find a pic mate, sorry http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

FoolTrottel
09-03-2006, 05:13 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v668/fooltrottel/Hurricane.jpg
That's my 1/24 Hurri Mk1 from Airfix...

The P51D, FW 190A8, BF109E, Ju87D are still in their boxes.... all 1/24... Airfix.

Feathered_IV
09-03-2006, 05:32 PM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
The Japanese company Sweet makes 1:144 scale plastic models which must be constructed but they are hideously well detailed.

I've got a bunch of those ones from sweet (A6M, Mc200, 109F and tropicalised Hurricane) They are pretty amazing. You can even read the stencil markings with a powerful magnifying glass. Plus getting two per box is a nice touch.

Platz is another one that does 1/144 to the same degree of finesse. They do a range of Ponies and Doras, with the Shiden due out soon too.

panther3485
09-03-2006, 11:23 PM
Originally posted by danjama:

"aye it is the accurate miniatures Yak, and the FW190 is Revell...

Couldnt find a pic mate, sorry" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

No apology needed - I haven't posted any pics so I can hardly criticize!

On the Yaks, did you manage to get hold of a good 1/48 Yak-1? Accurate Miniatures released a kit (which I believe was a 'limited edition' run) of Lilya Litvyak's Yak-1 and I managed to snap up what was literally the last one in town, several years ago. I've not seen it on the shelves since. Again, it's truly a BEAUTIFUL kit.

I've also got the 1/48 Eduard 'Profipack' Yak-3, with some exquisite photo-etched details, subtly 'bulged' resin tyres for the main gear and nicely rendered 'film' instruments. Looking forward to building that one as well!


Best regards, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
panther3485

leitmotiv
09-04-2006, 12:21 AM
I'll look at Platz, Feathered_IV. I understand A Model (which did a terrific Sov Ye-2 recently) is releasing a 1:144 Manchester, Lancaster, and Lincoln soon. Tasty. I am currently gearing up to launch into the Trump 1:48 Wellington IC---it is soooooo good.

Congratulations on that splendid Airfix Hurricane I, Fooltrottel. That model is a beast. I bit the dust on that one. Am awaiting the new Trumpeter 1:24 Hurricane I and Fw 190 due out soon. I have a stash of Hasegawa 1:48 Hurricane I and IIB Trops to do---I am wild about the tropical versions of those marks.

BiscuitKnight
09-04-2006, 03:55 AM
Originally posted by panther3485:
Possibly; I'm not familiar with Bendigo. My experience is almost entirely with Sydney, Melbourne and Perth, that is, the suburbs of those capital cities, since 1970. I have observed not just as a parent and adult citizen over all those years but also as a coach and trainer of children. I've seen quite a bit of change in three and a half decades.

Your observations of what kids do in and around Bendigo are fair enough as far as I'm concerned. I have next to no experience or observations regarding Bendigo.

I've never taken the position that the electronic audio/visual media are wholly responsible for this phenomenon - that would be a very simplistic position to take and its obviously more complex than that. I merely observed that the ready availability, even saturation, of these things, combined with sometimes lax parenting, have helped to encourage it. A fair observation, I feel. Having said this, your notes about social change, including the rise of feminism, are also very likely to have had an effect on this equation so you have raised good points there! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif


As for the obesity problem, well, I have touched on that but only to illustrate that other changes are occurring that would appear to be connected in some ways to the main topic under discussion, but again this can be a very complex area and further discussion is really outside the scope of this thread. Suffice to say that while society does not yet have all the answers, research is ongoing and some very dedicated people are working on it. As of now, there is quite a lot that is known nevertheless. Many answers and much information is out there to be found, if you want to look for it. I could give you my 'take' on it, but I don't think you'd want that and it would be going OT for this thread.


Have enjoyed chatting with you, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
best regards, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif
panther3485

The obesity problem is something that needs some serious research: the thread that Fritz/Pirshjager posted certainly had some food for thought. Meanwhile, the politicians can academics increasingly for these PE classes that have no visible effect http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif I wonder if you saw the report about a principal that removed the sport classes and replaced them with remedial classes for his yr11s because of a shocking failure rate. He was totally villified, and all he did was try to help the kids.

The instant gratification phenomenon is interesting and another broad topic that warrants some research by psychologists (more so than "Can we grow a gay rat?"), and it's a shame that activities like modelling are dying, no doubt it was a very positive thing for children and adolescents - even adults - to do. Perhaps I should look into it, shaky hands aside http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I guess I've derailed this thread enough for now though.

OD_79
09-04-2006, 04:27 AM
Did no one follow the link I posted? A company has chipped in to save Airfix...never mind though, seems you only want to talk about it's demise!

Feathered_IV
09-04-2006, 04:29 AM
Leitmotiv, here's a view of the tiny 1/144 platz ponies.

http://www.dragonmodelsusa.com/dmlusa/propics_extra/DIR_PLA/l/l_PLAPD1_MFU1.jpg

http://www.platz-hobby.com/image/air/pd3.jpg

http://www.1999.co.jp/dbimages/user/hobby/itbig/10044564n.jpg

panther3485
09-04-2006, 05:28 AM
Originally posted by BiscuitKnight:
"I wonder if you saw the report about a principal that removed the sport classes and replaced them with remedial classes for his yr11s because of a shocking failure rate. He was totally villified, and all he did was try to help the kids."

I don't recall that specific report but I am aware that people in education are having to face these sorts of difficulties more than ever before.

Teachers have to tread a very fine line sometimes and often it's a case of 'damned if they do, but damned if they don't'. They just can't win sometimes. In these sorts of situations, they have my sympathy.


Best regards and hope you enjoy some modelling, if you get into it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
panther3485

Feathered_IV
09-04-2006, 07:22 AM
Hehe. Me and a mate spent our early high school years being terrorised by a bunch of skinhead kids. The only way to stay alive after school was to take refuge in the local public library until they eventually got hungry and pushed off home.

Not much else to do in a library except read. So thats what we did. I guess I owe my love of learning to those thugs. I must thank them one day. If they ever get out of prison.

danjama
09-04-2006, 08:05 AM
Originally posted by Feathered_IV:
Hehe. Me and a mate spent our early high school years being terrorised by a bunch of skinhead kids. The only way to stay alive after school was to take refuge in the local public library until they eventually got hungry and pushed off home.

Not much else to do in a library except read. So thats what we did. I guess I owe my love of learning to those thugs. I must thank them one day. If they ever get out of prison.

I think it takes a big person to admit to being bullied like that, and the fact you see positive through it is outstanding! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Panther: I can't tell you specifically which models of Yaks i saw (Russian pilots names all baffle me) but there was a huge veriety on the stalls setup at Duxford, from Yak9's to 3's and lots more. I remember in particular a shop by the name of Mr.Models, so google that shop and have a butchers at the website (hopefully they have one). Let me know what ya find! I would love to buy some more Yak kits, it's a beauty of a bird!