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View Full Version : Respectful request to change the water color in next patch



bpk1970
10-30-2004, 10:31 PM
Dear Oleg and staff,

Like many others on this forum, I thoroughly enjoy Pacific Fighters and have had hours of fun playing this latest extension of the Il2 series. Many of the planes that I dreamed of playing since giving up CFS2 are available, and in a much, much better form now.

However, I was hoping that you and your team would consider lightening up on the color shade used for the ocean. I live by the Pacific Ocean, grew up by this lovely ocean, have spent many long hours wading in it, and have flown over it many times to tropical locales in the South Pacific.

My conclusion is that the color of the real Pacific ocean is significantly lighter than the color used in PF, which I believe is too "dark blue" and more resembles the North sea.

Perhaps other forum members agree or disagree. If so, please post your opinion.

Please don't consider this a whine but a humble suggestion. PF is otherwise a blast and I'm extremely happy with this new breath of life into Il2/FB/AEP.

Thanks,

BK


P.S. My system specs are P4/2.4 Ghz/512 MB RDRAM/ATI Radeon 9700 with Cat 4.10. Running the game on Perfect with Water=1. Average FPS is 45 over sea, 25 over forested islands.

Villicus
10-30-2004, 10:40 PM
Good suggestion. I'll go one further. Maybe what we need is someway to adjust colors for sea, land, and sky for each person to set according to their own tastes. An interface w/sliders. I don't know much about programing and tech stuff like that so if this is something very difficult or impossible I withdraw the suggestion. Not everyone sees colors the same. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Oilburner_TAW
10-30-2004, 11:36 PM
I've been in the Pacific and it is dark blue, basically a dark navy blue color. I think the water in PF is lighter than actual color.

flemsha
10-30-2004, 11:40 PM
Won't it depend heavily on the depth of the water?

Doesn't deep water appear very deep/dark blue, and remember the Pacific has the deepest water in the world (The Marianas Trench), while shallower water in lagoons and over sand bars and coral reefs will appear a much lighter blue, even approaching an aqua.

-HH- Beebop
10-30-2004, 11:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Oilburner_TAW:
I've been in the Pacific and it is dark blue, basically a dark navy blue color. I think the water in PF is lighter than actual color. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And that would make sense. Look at "Navy Blue". It's very dark, almost black. It was the color the USN finally settled on near the end of WWII.

My 2 yen worth.

LC34
10-31-2004, 12:11 AM
I also think it depends on the depth. But who am I to disagree since I have never been to the Pacific Ocean. Maybe what you are acustomed too is the shallower waters? You did say south Pacific.

Great way to request something by the way. You didnt blare it out in capital letters, you didnt whine, you did it in the most respectful way possible. I would think that if Oleg read the forums regularly, this would be the post he would actually look at instead of "MY PLANE DOESNT FLY RIGHT I HATE THIS" type of thread. KUDOS!!

People should take notes on this post, expecially the people who do whine. You will get much better responses this way.

bpk1970
10-31-2004, 08:14 PM
(Thank you LC34 for your kind words; I try to be polite since Oleg and his staff are obviously top-notch professionals who deserve respect for what they do and the great fun their work gives us.)

You gentleman are correct, the color of ocean water depends on the depth. Deep ocean water is dark blue whether you're in Antarctica or the South Pacific.

In PF, the color of the water when looking out toward the horizon is more or less accurate. But it's when you look straight down at the ocean (i.e. roll the plane 90 degrees and look out the side of the cockpit). The water is very dark blue, almost black except the sun reflections.

I've been up in jetplanes looking at the ocean from 30,000 feet, and it's not this dark. (Just today I was driving along the Pacific Ocean and sitting in the water on my surfboard at late afternoon, looking out at the deep water on the horizon. The water is a much lighter shade of blue).

Well, just my 2 cents. The current color doesn't detract from an excellent game, although I often have problems spotting bogies beneath me, against the backdrop of a dark, blue deep.

Thanks,

BK

PF_Coastie
10-31-2004, 08:51 PM
Nice post bpk.

I think the biggest prob with the water in excellent mode is that it is too solid a color. It needs to be broken up with some varied shades. Now, before you start to say, well the ocean is all one color, sure it is but it is Never perfectly flat. There are always swells on the ocean which give contrast and depth. This is what is missing from the excellent mode water.

It is very difficult to fly low to the water because you just cant tell how close you are to it. It just needs to be broken up a bit.

My 02 worth!

bpk1970
11-01-2004, 12:06 AM
I did a little experimenting, and I think I understand why there is a difference in opinion regarding the water color.

I have an ATI Radeon 9700 Pro and run PF in Perfect mode.

When the Water=1 in the Conf.ini, the ocean color is the deep, dark blue that I'm discussing.

When Water=2, the ocean color is a much lighter blue-gray shade. The ocean color is perhaps too gray in this mode, although the grayshade scale seems to be correct (i.e. bright enough). I agree PF-Coastie, the water has no discernible texture and it's difficult to gauge your altitude. The sun reflection with Water=2 is pretty artificial looking, with a "screendoor" patchwork that moves with your plane.

As to Water=3, I don't have the latest Nvidia card but the pictures look gorgeous and the water looks very realistic with regard to the variegated shades of blue and the wave textures.

However, I think the majority of players can't run PF at Water=3, either because they don't have a 6800 Ultra or the graphical demand is too high.

BK

bpk1970
11-01-2004, 12:25 AM
I think three-wire may have found a solution to the "dark-water dilemma!"

Please read the following post:
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=26310365&m=4511030732

Although three-wire is using a GE Force 5200FX, changing ForceShaders1x=0 to ForceShaders1x=1 in the conf.ini will make the water a lighter, much more realistic blue color (for both Water=1 and Water=2)!

Furthermore, the ocean texture is rendered in much better detail, with visible waves from high altitude whether you're running Water=1 or Water=2 (this may be a solution to your dilemma, PF_Coastie).

This new color is more reminiscent of the color we all saw in FB/AEP. The default PF conf.ini for some reason sets ForceShaders1x=0 while HardwareShaders=1 for perfect mode. When ForceShaders1x=0, the ocean is midnight blue when Water=1 or is a gray blue with no texture when Water=2.

Lastly, setting ForceShaders1x=1 actually improved my FPS! I can now run Perfect mode with Water=2 at reasonable FPS. Furthermore, there seems to be a lot less skips and lags. I can now run the Kamikaze track very smoothly, whereas before (when ForceShaders1x=0), the track was like a slideshow.

Well, I hope this will be of some help. I've now set ForceShaders1x=1 in the conf.ini in Perfect mode, and thanks to three-wire, the water looks much better with regard to color and texture.

So no more complaints here, PF is a real gem!

Thanks,

BK

P.S. By looking at many of the pictures posted in this forum, it seems that a lot of people may benefit from setting ForceShaders1x=1, because I see lot of midnight blue ocean.

bpk1970
11-01-2004, 01:26 AM
I've noticed that there is one major trade-off when setting ForceShaders1x=1. There are no reflections of smoke, ships, planes or explosions on the water.

However, my framerates have jumped considerably since changing this setting, and I'm willing to give up some fancy reflections for better looking water and FPS!

Thanks, BK

greypeace
11-13-2004, 04:20 PM
Oh yes yes yes ,light blue water to be able to see the planes down below

KonstantinL100
11-13-2004, 04:50 PM
I've spent sometime on sea-going boats and the water colour as someone else said depends on the depth. Where I've been sailing (West coast of Scotland; North Atlantic) the water is almost transparent in the shallow bays (not sure how you could replicate this graphically) but 10 or 15 minutes out into the ocean and the water becomes very dark blue.

I will actually disagree withone of the previous posters, but I believe that water seems 'bluer' when view horizontally. This is because sunlight only penetrates about 20ft down. After that there is no light and if you look vertically down (say over the side of a boat) the water is very very dark blue, almost black.

I have no experience of looking down on the ocean from the air, but that's what it looks like at sea level.

My 2 cents!

Nige_Reconman
11-13-2004, 05:33 PM
I live near the pacific. Shallow waters are a very lioght blue/translucent and like every other ocean around at depth a navy blue.

NavyFO
11-13-2004, 06:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
I will actually disagree withone of the previous posters, but I believe that water seems 'bluer' when view horizontally. This is because sunlight only penetrates about 20ft down. After that there is no light and if you look vertically down (say over the side of a boat) the water is very very dark blue, almost black.



My 2 cents! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, sunlight can penetrate up to 800 feet of water depending on the conditions.

deltorro
11-13-2004, 07:43 PM
Being in the US Navy and stationed on the west coast, I have seen plenty of the pacific. Out in the middle of no where, surrounded by nothing but pacific water was one of the most awe inspiring experiences I've had. The clearness of the water was amazing. When throwing stuff overboard (yes, it's legal) you could see that stuff sink down for a while before it disappeared in the darkness. When I was alongside the ship, you could actually see the bottom of the hull from the surface, and that was some 80 feet underwater. Anyways.....

As for the water color in the game, I am going to agree with the folks who are saying it should be darker. In the middle of no where, at high altitude, the water was a very dark blue, and in the deeper spots, almost black. One you start getting closer to the surface though, the color lightened up considerably. Only time we ever saw the turquoise water was coming close to shore, or a sandbar.