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GR142_Astro
07-27-2005, 11:48 PM
how we are seeing thread after thread started about the ONE US fighter that seems to be able to hold its own in online servers currently?


hmmmmm

GAU-8
07-27-2005, 11:54 PM
i concur...

Atomic_Marten
07-27-2005, 11:56 PM
Because a lot of people are deliberately lying. So there is no wonder about this..
Many people are confused and, usually such issues it all ends in flamewar.

I have opened a thread about P-38 because in the previous threads (about 100 pages maybe more), I have not saw CLEAR info/explanation about it.

Untill gibbage said that it is actually correctly modelled P-38L unlike old pre 4.01 P-38L which was incorrectly modelled plane. After that SkyChimp comes in and verifies that. Basically those two are the SAME plane just pre 4.01 is incorrect.
And that is pretty much it.

Fehler
07-28-2005, 06:50 AM
"P38 threads: Isn't it odd....."

That you started yet another one? LOL!

GR142_Astro
07-28-2005, 08:01 AM
DOH!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

diomedes33
07-28-2005, 08:17 AM
yeah I agree the P-38 is odd. I wonder if Lockheed's motto is, "Lets build something really wierd to confuse the heck out of the enemy."

"Is that one plane or two, why are there bullets flying between them? Is there three? wtf?"

Why else would they build the F-104, "Oh no, the missile is shooting at me!!!!!"

Have you ever seen the jetstar, that is one fugly business jet.

I wonder if Lockheed and Blohm & Voss ever got together after the war to talk about how they could make an ultra-wierd design.

MEGILE
07-28-2005, 08:19 AM
Originally posted by GR142_Astro:
how we are seeing thread after thread started about the ONE US fighter that seems to be able to hold its own in online servers currently?


hmmmmm

I'm sure there is an interesting point there... but I am failing to see it...

straight over my head, I'm afraid.

Chadburn
07-28-2005, 08:35 AM
Originally posted by GR142_Astro:
how we are seeing thread after thread started about the ONE US fighter that seems to be able to hold its own in online servers currently?


hmmmmm

But aren't most of them from "red" pilots? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

WOLFMondo
07-28-2005, 08:44 AM
I don't know what the fuss is about, the P38J is much nicer to fly! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

MEGILE
07-28-2005, 08:54 AM
P-38J?!
You nice?

Hoarmurath
07-28-2005, 08:59 AM
Originally posted by Atomic_Marten:
Because a lot of people are deliberately lying. So there is no wonder about this..
Many people are confused and, usually such issues it all ends in flamewar.

I have opened a thread about P-38 because in the previous threads (about 100 pages maybe more), I have not saw CLEAR info/explanation about it.

Untill gibbage said that it is actually correctly modelled P-38L unlike old pre 4.01 P-38L which was incorrectly modelled plane. After that SkyChimp comes in and verifies that. Basically those two are the SAME plane just pre 4.01 is incorrect.
And that is pretty much it.

Complete BS, if the plane was wrong, all Oleg had to do was correct it, why add a correct one and leave an incorrect one? This statement as the P-38L late being the only one correct (ah no, i forget, it don't perform well enough), is only wishful thinking from some people.

Pirschjaeger
07-28-2005, 09:03 AM
See, this is where I become confused again. Does anyone have a definitive answer? And please don't tell me so and so said. Show me the money!

The truth is out there, somewhere. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Fritz

horseback
07-28-2005, 09:36 AM
Let's start by pointing out that the original offerings of the P-38J and L were dreadfully porked, both incapable of reaching the established climb and accelleration performance of the basic P-38J with 1600 HP engines. They remain woefully short of the established capabilities of the actual P-38J and L, and the P-38L 'Late' is still a bit short of the performance figures of the standard late-model J, much less the actual L with 150 octane fuel and the higher boost normally used with it.

Rather than admit error, the P-38L Late is a face-saving maneuver by 1C. For all intents and purposes, the P-38J in the game could be said to 'represent' the poorly maintained and operated (at least by reputation) P-38H and J models flown by 8th AF groups in the October 1943-May 1944 period, which lacked the dive brake, the 'base' P-38L with dive brakes would represent them during the following summer, and the P-38L 'Late' is more or less representative of the P-38 as operated by almost every other group in every other theater.

We actually have yet to see a P-38 in the game with the performance that the higher octane/boost would provide...

cheers

horseback

HoldSteady641
07-28-2005, 09:58 AM
Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
I don't know what the fuss is about, the P38J is much nicer to fly! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I agree!

BTW, anyone noticed that the beautifull Fokker G1 displayed at paris airshow in 1937 had similar features and designed for exactly the same role (fighter-bomber, interceptor)?

darkhorizon11
07-28-2005, 10:09 AM
Notice how the same people who hate the P-38 and claim it never saw combat have no problem with the fact that the K-4 is way overboosted too, of course they embrace that plane. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

HoldSteady641
07-28-2005, 10:29 AM
oh hush, this is not a discussion but a tennis match, one with endless rallies..

telsono
07-28-2005, 11:35 AM
Holdsteady;

There was a large amount of Twin engine aircraft designed in the 1930's under the premise of interceptor/bomber destroyer. among these were the Fokker G.1, Bf 110, Lockheed P-38, PZL P.38 "Wilk". The Lockheed P-38 was one of the few to be in a single seat configuration. Another was the Westland "Whirlwind", a personal favorite of mine.

Hastatus
07-28-2005, 11:39 AM
There was never any definitive link between 150 octane and the 1725hp performance.

It was assumed, and then at some point everybody started running around debating 150 octane use in the P-38L. Thats what happens when you get psuedo-theories from unreliable sources.

Oleg stated quite clearly that the Mustang III was a 150 octane fighter. He makes no mention at all about the P-38L being one.

fordfan25
07-28-2005, 11:39 AM
Originally posted by Megile:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GR142_Astro:
how we are seeing thread after thread started about the ONE US fighter that seems to be able to hold its own in online servers currently?


hmmmmm

I'm sure there is an interesting point there... but I am failing to see it...

straight over my head, I'm afraid. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

thats to be expected http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Fury_352FG
07-28-2005, 12:18 PM
http://yarchive.net/mil/p38.html

Some interesting reading on the capabilities of the Lightning.

F0_Dark_P
07-28-2005, 12:48 PM
Originally posted by Chadburn:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GR142_Astro:
how we are seeing thread after thread started about the ONE US fighter that seems to be able to hold its own in online servers currently?


hmmmmm

But aren't most of them from "red" pilots? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>They are just jealous on us blue, they just want a überplane for their own http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Chadburn
07-28-2005, 01:00 PM
Originally posted by Fury_352FG:
http://yarchive.net/mil/p38.html

Some interesting reading on the capabilities of the Lightning.
Yeah, except the first poster kinda lost me right off with this statement:

"I'm offering the suggestion that the P-38L (and later J models) was the
best all-around fighter aircraft of World War II, not based on the numbers or book references, but on the views of two WWII pilots who flew the aircraft--and others--in combat."


(italics are mine)

VW-IceFire
07-28-2005, 01:12 PM
Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
See, this is where I become confused again. Does anyone have a definitive answer? And please don't tell me so and so said. Show me the money!

The truth is out there, somewhere. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Fritz
The truth, as an outside observer of said threads is this.

The P-38L and the P-38L Late are both the same plane with the same engines. The P-38L runs at the rated horsepower listed in the P-38L manual. Anyone familiar with the USAAF and its ground crews and pilots is that they quickly learn that the manual is conservative. There are numerous examples of P-47s and P-38s (particularly) and other types that were "hotroded" by ground crews with support from the engine manufacturers. While none of these things were authorized squadron or airforce wide changes they existed and in some numbers (from the impression that I get). It seems finding two USAAF units running exactly the same performing aircraft were hard to find. The impression I get of the USAAF is a much looser organization when it comes to certain details.

In the RAF engine settings, armament types, markings, nose art (mostly forbidden) and the whole thing were specified by official documents which outlined everything in explicit detail.

In the USAAF, by the middle of the war, each unit got their planes delivered with only the official USAAF stars and bars and the rest were upto the creativity of the unit itself. I see a parallel across the board here where USAAF units had alot of power to setup things the way they wanted to...which in many ways makes more sense as they are on the frontlines and know exactly what they wanted.

What Gibbage and a bunch of them are saying is that while the official rated HP for the engines in the P-38L is consistent with the P-38L, the P-38L Late represents actual ratings modified by ground crews with support from the representatives from Allison that actually made the engines and know the tolerances.

So both types are correct from what I understand but its been raised as an issue because most don't know (I didn't). And its raised an issue because a few folks are having a hard time coming to grips with a P-38 that is truly capable of outperforming the oppositions best propeller fighters.

Atomic_Marten
07-28-2005, 01:25 PM
I agree with everything what IceFire said. He said it well.
Except that pre 4.01 P-38L is correctly modeled.
The only correct L in game is LATE, because it "represents actual ratings" on field.

Gibbage1
07-28-2005, 01:45 PM
Anyone can fly the L Late at its "specified" HP ratings by keeping it at 60" and 3000RPM. But me, im like any other pilot. When in a combat situation, I will use every ounce of what my aircraft has to offer. If the engine can run at 1725HP, I sure as hell will. There was NOTHING mecanical stopping pilots from using more then what there aircraft was rated for. The only thing that prevented them was the capability of there engine to withstand it. The F-30 engines were clearly designed to withstand 1725HP, even though the USAAF may or may not of officially recognized it. When your being shot at, a peace of paper is NOT going to stop you from advancing your throttle.

HoldSteady641
07-28-2005, 02:01 PM
I'm going to install a filter on my browser. Every text that contains 'octane', '150', '1600HP', '1725HP', 'blue', 'red', 'whining' and 'actual ratings modified' are going to be banned. So write all you want, I don't care no more. Perhaps gonna throw in 'Me262 should be banned on server' and 'Me BF 109 K4' too if they keep it up.

Or perhaps not open any more threads that handle these subject. might be easier..

LeadSpitter_
07-28-2005, 02:30 PM
Thats how you guys spam, check orr 9-16 cries for the 109 and 190 and there is at least 8 lufters to 1 allied person on these forums.

I do feel the p38s 109 190d are 4.01s, spitfires of 3.04 and the corsair and ki84 of 3.0, they seem to have no disadvantages and lack of energy bleed, no compressability with yoyo trim, insta rubberban recovery stall, with olegs new yoyo kid trim.

The 190 antons besides thier screwed up dm require energy tactics to fly like most allied ac, but at least they can kill in a 1 sec burst one pass every single time.

who cares next patch everything will change again like its made up out of thin air, not listed in the readmes, no historical testing and data charts shown to prove changes are legit like it has since the original sturmovik which is amazingly similiar to what we have now, nothing we can do about that. Maybe the final 5.0 patch will be done very well dms fixed, E bleed, power off dive tests done to show if interia and weight really effects an aircrafts dive speed and energy state.

I dunno i think they have to make the last fb aep pf patch excellent to get people to buy BOB.

NorrisMcWhirter
07-28-2005, 03:02 PM
Originally posted by LeadSpitter_:
Thats how you guys spam, check orr 9-16 cries for the 109 and 190 and there is at least 8 lufters to 1 allied person on these forums.


Sorry to quote Oleg but didn't he say something along the lines of, "Allied whiners do the most whining" ?

Ta,
Norris

fordfan25
07-28-2005, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by HoldSteady641:
I'm going to install a filter on my browser. Every text that contains 'octane', '150', '1600HP', '1725HP', 'blue', 'red', 'whining' and 'actual ratings modified' are going to be banned. So write all you want, I don't care no more. Perhaps gonna throw in 'Me262 should be banned on server' and 'Me BF 109 K4' too if they keep it up.

Or perhaps not open any more threads that handle these subject. might be easier..

or just stop going into threads you dont like. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Fehler
07-28-2005, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by LeadSpitter_:
Thats how you guys spam, check orr 9-16 cries for the 109 and 190 and there is at least 8 lufters to 1 allied person on these forums.

I do feel the p38s 109 190d are 4.01s, spitfires of 3.04 and the corsair and ki84 of 3.0, they seem to have no disadvantages and lack of energy bleed, no compressability with yoyo trim, insta rubberban recovery stall, with olegs new yoyo kid trim.

The 190 antons besides thier screwed up dm require energy tactics to fly like most allied ac, but at least they can kill in a 1 sec burst one pass every single time.

who cares next patch everything will change again like its made up out of thin air, not listed in the readmes, no historical testing and data charts shown to prove changes are legit like it has since the original sturmovik which is amazingly similiar to what we have now, nothing we can do about that. Maybe the final 5.0 patch will be done very well dms fixed, E bleed, power off dive tests done to show if interia and weight really effects an aircrafts dive speed and energy state.

I dunno i think they have to make the last fb aep pf patch excellent to get people to buy BOB.

Here, I'll send you a bottle as well..

http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/whiner.jpg

Hoarmurath
07-28-2005, 04:17 PM
Originally posted by NorrisMcWhirter:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LeadSpitter_:
Thats how you guys spam, check orr 9-16 cries for the 109 and 190 and there is at least 8 lufters to 1 allied person on these forums.


Sorry to quote Oleg but didn't he say something along the lines of, "Allied whiners do the most whining" ?

Ta,
Norris </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

it was "US whining", not allied...

fordfan25
07-28-2005, 04:30 PM
gee i wounder why. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Kurfurst__
07-28-2005, 05:02 PM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
What Gibbage and a bunch of them are saying is that while the official rated HP for the engines in the P-38L is consistent with the P-38L, the P-38L Late represents actual ratings modified by ground crews with support from the representatives from Allison that actually made the engines and know the tolerances.

Which is nothing more than a nice story made up by Gibbage and co about a week ago after the P-38Late appearance and after failing to provide any documentation of 1725. There is not even any proof of those 'Allision' representatives. Yeah perhaps it was all done in secrecy, but perhaps it just never happened and it has been made up by a handful.


So both types are correct from what I understand but its been raised as an issue because most don't know (I didn't). And its raised an issue because a few folks are having a hard time coming to grips with a P-38 that is truly capable of outperforming the oppositions best propeller fighters.

Well you may have some truth in that. Some of us really don`t like when a few agressive whiners can`t put up of with historical specs and make up stories and neverexisted boosts to give a fantasy-boost and performance to their favourite a/c, and thus crippling the historical roots of the sim.

Gibbage1
07-28-2005, 05:10 PM
Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
and thus crippling the historical roots of the sim.

Lol. Bi-1 crippled the "historical roots" in the sim, not an aircraft that had over 3000 produced.

Hoarmurath
07-28-2005, 05:52 PM
What i find odd, is this paranoia outburst about this plane.

I haven't seen anybody asking for it to be toned down, or removed from the sim.

The plane is here, and it will stay here, who have already seen a plane removed from FB?

Yet you guys react as if your very existence was at stake.

I really don't understand what you fear here... There's nothing bad about having some what if planes, we already have the Mig-3U, the I-185, the BI-1, the 109Z, the Go-229.

But when somebody suggest that the P-38L late belong to this category, you become aggressive as hell, why?

Personnally my favorite P-38 is the J, and i would have really liked having the F. The P-38L late? An interesting what if, nothing more.

After that, having the late model in dogfight or coop servers is the responsability of the admins.

Gibbage1
07-28-2005, 06:12 PM
Hoar. Your also rather aggressive in these threads for someone who does not fly it. You post in almost all of the P-38 threads.

Hoarmurath
07-28-2005, 06:20 PM
Originally posted by Gibbage1:
Hoar. Your also rather aggressive in these threads for someone who does not fly it. You post in almost all of the P-38 threads.

C'est justement ca le plus drole dans l'affaire mon coco, c'est que j'ai plus d'heures de vol virtuelles sur P-38 dans FB que sur n'importe quel autre appareil. J'ai fait un rapide calcul, j'ai pres de mille heures de vol sur ce zinc dans FB, et en comptant les autres simulateurs auxquels j'ai joue depuis AotP, ca fait plus de cinq milles heures de vol virtuelles sur P-38.

NorrisMcWhirter
07-28-2005, 06:55 PM
Originally posted by Hoarmurath:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NorrisMcWhirter:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LeadSpitter_:
Thats how you guys spam, check orr 9-16 cries for the 109 and 190 and there is at least 8 lufters to 1 allied person on these forums.


Sorry to quote Oleg but didn't he say something along the lines of, "Allied whiners do the most whining" ?

Ta,
Norris </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

it was "US whining", not allied... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I was being diplomatic - I wouldn't want to be accused of 'poking yanks in the eye' and all that.

Ta,
Norris

faustnik
07-28-2005, 06:55 PM
Hoarmurath,

Wrong forum go here:

http://forums-fr.ubi.com/eve/ubb.x?a=frm&s=32010161&f=426102813

fordfan25
07-28-2005, 07:41 PM
Originally posted by faustnik:
Hoarmurath,

Wrong forum go here:

http://forums-fr.ubi.com/eve/ubb.x?a=frm&s=32010161&f=426102813

thank u . i was woundering if it was just me. if u have to resort to speaking in another lang that others do not know then you have already lost the battle lol.

the resone folks are harping on the 38 is because from what all the many offcial things that have been posted on it shows that the "late" is only just what the normal L should be. its not a fantasy plane. a ta-152 ki84c those are nice esamples of fantasy planes. the thing is the US flyers IMO have been very short changed when it comes to late war fighters. the japos have there ki84's, germans got there 109K's ta152's and super armor plated fws includeing a 1945 version. what do we have to compete in? a p-47,hellcat,and f4u-1's that are no more able to absorbe damge than a ki84 or la-7 as examples though thay were known to be amoung if not the toughst fighters of the war. we get p51's that the wings snap at 400MPH if you pull back on the stick. we get p-38s that are not up to what actual documents say thay are "with maby the late being the exeption". the mk3 stang is great when you just count its top speed at low alt. but like with the other stangs its even harder to B&Z in than the 38 do to the wing snap + it only has 4X .50s with a rather low amount of ammo.

when in say a p-47 you lose alot of its real life advantge. its still big and unmanuverble yet its made of papper heck i can light one up just as fast as a zeke useing .50s. you loose its abilty to out dive enemy planes because with the exeption of the early fighters evey thing stays with you. iv had spits keep up with no problems in a dive up till criticl failure. we dont have our late war top planes like the other countrys. give use a decently moddled p47N or M,f4u-4,or if you want to realy make things fair in the fantsy uber department lets see how those ki84s,109ks, ta-152s and even la-7s handle a bearcat or p51H. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif heck the 1 1945 plane we have is the f4u-1C. and its only a normal sair with 4x20mm,same as the hurrican and i believe a spit moddle. far short of the super cannon FW's or the ki84 C. yet its baned on nearly every server. and if it is let in then thay feel the ki84 C is justafied even though the ki84B has 4X20mms just like the C. were hamstringed in nearly every corner we turn.

Hoarmurath
07-28-2005, 07:42 PM
Originally posted by faustnik:
Hoarmurath,

Wrong forum go here:

http://forums-fr.ubi.com/eve/ubb.x?a=frm&s=32010161&f=426102813

no, no, i'm on the right forum... i was answering to gibbage... He seem to question my ability to read english, so i do him a favor, we are going from now on to debate in french. So he will have no more doubts about my ability to read what he wrote.

Gibbage1
07-28-2005, 07:47 PM
Originally posted by Hoarmurath:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by faustnik:
Hoarmurath,

Wrong forum go here:

http://forums-fr.ubi.com/eve/ubb.x?a=frm&s=32010161&f=426102813

no, no, i'm on the right forum... i was answering to gibbage... He seem to question my ability to read english, so i do him a favor, we are going from now on to debate in french. So he will have no more doubts about my ability to read what he wrote. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry. I no longer wish to enguage in a debate with you. Its just not worth my time.

BTW, this is an English forum.

Hoarmurath
07-28-2005, 07:54 PM
Originally posted by Gibbage1:

BTW, this is an English forum.

Ceci est un forom international, on y trouve aussi bien des posts en anglais, que d'autres en espagnol ou dans d'autres langues. Le fait que la plupart des posts soient en langue anglaise est uniquement du au fait que c'est une langue que la plupart des utilisateurs de ce forum, quelle que soit leur nationalite, lisent et ecrivent. Il est généralement considéré comme courtois d'y poster dans une langue que tout le monde comprend. Il y est également considéré comme courtois de ne pas etre condescendant vis a vis des gens qui peuvent avoir des difficultés dans une langue qui n'est pas la leur. Les gens de bonne compagnie font des efforts pour clarifier leurs posts, ou utiliser un language plus accessible, quand ils s'adressent a quelqu'un dont ils constatent, ou pensent, qu'il n'a pas leur niveau.

Je ne peux que constater que mossieur Gibbage n'est ni courtois, ni de bonne compagnie.

Grey_Mouser67
07-28-2005, 10:02 PM
Its getting emotional again....

I am a little dissappointed that Oleg chose to add a late model after several patches seeing the Lightning go unaddressed. The J and old L model were poorly modelled, compressibility off, and with the unexplainable super pitch/machinegun rattle-your-fillings loose.

There are aircraft..Corsair, Spitfire, Lightning, Jug, 109, Fw, Mustang, Yak that are extremely popular and loved by their fanbase....It would be a disservice to the community to not straighten out the obvious wrongs before this game comes to an end...I'm talking about obvious, gameplay affecting things like FM's and DM's...I can care less if the knob on the throttle is the wrong color.

The thing that I find amazing, no matter if fans of blue or red start the thread, the proponents of the other side demand proof that nobody can provide, because when you do someone else either counters it with other proof or they stick their head in the sand and ignore it. I'll never forget a person who argued that the Lockheed data was wrong because it came from Lockheed and therefore must be wrong because it was a big company http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif It may or may not have been wrong but I couldn't follow the argument...as if Hitler's regime produced nothing but factual data? I say that because the person arguing were one of those folks with a Fw for a sig that argued against anything that might improve an allied aircraft.

For example...lets take the 1725 hp...I can find sorces, have found sources and others have found sources...that they did exist...comes from Lockheed. Yet we have to prove it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif This data exists...it may or may not be right or wrong but it does exist and from the manufacturer.

We seem to assume, when it is convenient anyways, that Oleg's current model is always right and we must prove that it is wrong.

The objective reality is that Oleg's models are ALWAYS wrong...the mathmatics and computing power don't exist to make it otherwise...there are only degrees of accuracy. And then so and so starts making assumptions and drawing false deduction as to why the J model climbs 1000 ft too slow or compressibility is reached too fast or the wing sheds at 400 mph on a Mustang...the reality is it was programmed inaccurately and I suspect the majority of these kinds of issues are actually errors made by programmers.

None of the Lightnings perform to historical data nor do any other aircraft...the unfortunate part is that none of the characteristics are overmodelled so you get a very underwhelming feeling when flying the plane....and they are off, from a relative standpoint, further than most other aircraft. And then there are the qualitative things like the Jug and Hellcat were tough...but relatively speaking in this sim they are average.

Right now, online in a server like Warclouds, game play is unbalanced towards blue side. I've flown on both sides and the banter is coming from blue side as well...at least from those folks that want a fair fight. I've heard comments like red side doesn't use team tactics...I think both sides tend to fly in groups to the objective area and fight it out. The more on TS the better. And then there are those who don't want a fair fight...they are the most vehement opponents of improving the Lightning and other aircraft with obvious errors and the most revolting imho...an obvious error is a deviation from normal data that creates an unhistorical advantage or disadvantage for an aircraft against an enemy of similar vintage and affects game play.

Example...J model lightning climbs 1000 ft too slow and the pitch affects gunnery rendering the weapons say 40% (guess and an opinion) less effective where compressibility is entered too early and combined in ahistorical elevator authority renders the aircraft ineffective at B&Z tactics which were historically used tactics....its main opponent, the Bf 109G is afforded ahistorical elevator authority and ahistorical stall speeds which combined with lack of torque create a situation where the lightning is unable to use its torqueless climb and turning abilities (historical in nature) to its advantage...again...affecting gameplay.

historically speaking of course http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

If only we could be purposeful and quit putting everything on trial...what would this game look like and these forums sound like if we just assumed that all the fm's and dm's were wrong and we were all just in pursuit of perfection? I don't care which side the plane is on, I'd like to see all planes brought closer to the real thing...the lightning is off alot, the spit is off a little as are a bunch of other aircraft so lets fix em....at least to the point where historical tactics can be used and planes have a historical set of advantages and disadvantages to deal with and fight with.