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WhiteSnake_76
03-17-2007, 09:40 PM
I was wondering why we got all these German Jets that never seen service exept for the Messerschmitt Me-262 Schwalbe that entered service in April 1944, the Heinkel He-162 Volksjager that entered service in January 1945, and the Arado Ar-234 Blitz that entered service in August 1944.

The UK had the Gloster Meteor that entered service in July 1944, and the De Havilland DH-100 Vampire that entered service in April 1945.

The US Navy had the Ryan FR-1 Fireball and it entered service in March 1945.
the USAAF had the Bell P-59A Airacomet that entered service in September 1944, wich was followed in February 1945 by the Lockheed P-80A Shooting Star.

Why dont we have any of these Allied aircraft in the game?

The Japanese had Jets that were based/licenced on German Jetfighters: Me-262, He-162 and the Me-163, so for a Pacific '46 map we could use these with Japanese schemes.

The Russian Mig-9, I-300 and Yak-15 could never have existed if the war had not ended because they were using BMW-003 and Jumo-004 engines and the russian copies of those (RD-20 and RD-10 engines)and a lot of German technology.

I hope we get these Allied Jets in the near future in a patch or update because these planes would have seen combat for sure if the war had lasted just a little bit longer.

AKA_TAGERT
03-17-2007, 09:42 PM
YP-80 is in the game

WhiteSnake_76
03-17-2007, 09:47 PM
Yeah, but its the only one and the Y means its a Prototype so it would never have seen combat. The P-80 has wingtip tank's.

I just found this wich has a list of some Japanese WW-II Jetfighters http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif, to bad its all in Japanese also http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
http://afbase.com/bbs/zboard.php?id=comm&page=1&page_nu...rd=&category=&no=903 (http://afbase.com/bbs/zboard.php?id=comm&page=1&page_num=30&select_arrange=vote&desc=&sn=off&ss=on&sc=on&keyword=&category=&no=903)

AKA_TAGERT
03-17-2007, 10:04 PM
Originally posted by NDS_Camp.:
Yeah, but its the only one and the Y means its a Prototype so it would never have seen combat. The P-80 has wingtip tank's.
Actully 4 "Y" did fly sorties in the ETO

TheBandit_76
03-17-2007, 10:06 PM
Trust me, we don't want a P59 Airacoma.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

WhiteSnake_76
03-17-2007, 11:07 PM
Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NDS_Camp.:
Yeah, but its the only one and the Y means its a Prototype so it would never have seen combat. The P-80 has wingtip tank's.
Actully 4 "Y" did fly sorties in the ETO </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Look it up, 2 were send to the UK and 2 to Italy but wen one of the Pre Production planes bursted into flames in the UK during an demonstration flight, they were grounded and never flew missions because of that during the war.

But the YP-80 can pass in the game as a production model, its close enough.

I just really would like the other Allied Jet's with maybe the exeption of the P-59 because that plane had really poor performance compaired to the others.

Tater-SW-
03-17-2007, 11:13 PM
^^ compared to the real ones, or the ones that 46 had that were made up from whole cloth? <runs away>

tater

ImpStarDuece
03-17-2007, 11:50 PM
Perhaps its something to do with the fact that the Pe-2 and 1946 add-ons were never meant for release outside of 1C's Russian distribution network, and therefore are primarily marketed at Russian interests?

Its only through the groundswell of support for the product on this and other forums (as well as more than a few letters to our friendly Ubisoft marketing executives) that got it released in the West.

Its good to see the sim return to its "roots", so to speak, with Russian birds that most of us know little, if anything, about.

For my taste, the western front is too fractious, with too many self proclaimed experts forming cheering squads for thier own personal favourite rides.

(P.S. why is it that USAAF and Luftwaffe supporters, REGARDLESS of the flight sim, believe that their aircraft are always the hardest doneby/most voiciferous about their cause? Its the same in almost every WW2 sim I have played, from EAW onwards.)

JG53Frankyboy
03-18-2007, 05:16 AM
Originally posted by ImpStarDuece:
Perhaps its something to do with the fact that the Pe-2 and 1946 add-ons were never meant for release outside of 1C's Russian distribution network, and therefore are primarily marketed at Russian interests?

....................

but that would not explain this amount of Luftwaffe UFOs in the 1946 AdOn.

most propably even the russians would have enjoyed some matches between real flown MiG-9s vs P-80A, Meteors and Vampires..............


and as far as i was told, i cant speak/read russian , the russian forums are also strong supporters of the VVS planes - and i belive there are the same discussions http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

VFS-214_Hawk
03-18-2007, 06:55 AM
I am trying to figure out how they are going to get American Jets into the so called Korean game coming in two weeks when we can not even get American torpedo planes in IL-2 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif

Foo.bar
03-18-2007, 06:58 AM
Why dont we have any of these Allied aircraft in the game?

Simple answer: because nobody did model it.

XyZspineZyX
03-18-2007, 07:22 AM
Originally posted by NDS_Camp.:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NDS_Camp.:
Yeah, but its the only one and the Y means its a Prototype so it would never have seen combat. The P-80 has wingtip tank's.
Actully 4 "Y" did fly sorties in the ETO </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Look it up, 2 were send to the UK and 2 to Italy but wen one of the Pre Production planes bursted into flames in the UK during an demonstration flight, they were grounded and never flew missions because of that during the war.

But the YP-80 can pass in the game as a production model, its close enough.

I just really would like the other Allied Jet's with maybe the exeption of the P-59 because that plane had really poor performance compaired to the others. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

He doesn't need to look it up. It is fact that these aircraft served in Italy during the belligerent period of US involvement in WWII. They flew no combat sorties but did serve.

There are aircraft in the sim that never flew, ever, and were included long, long before the 1946 add-on came out. For example: Bf 109Z.

Many players have this idea that when a plane like the Lerche or the 109Z appear, it "bumps" other aircraft off the list. This is a misconception. There IS NO list of planes to be included. The planes get included because people make them and they get approved and then added. It's not because a #29 ranked plane bumped a #4 ranked plane off the ten-aircraft long "to do list"

The reason, in the game, that there are all these German jets is because of the name of the add-on and the idea behind it. The name of the add-on is "1946"

In the "1946" add-on, Germany and the Soviet Union continue hostilities. If you look, there are not just German jets of the type you are talking about, there are Soviet jets as well

Those aircraft exist to make a 'what-if' scenario in an alternate history. Obviously, any WWII timeline that takes place in 1946 is fantasy, yes?

The "1946" add-on was made for the Russian market, not the western market. RRG studios pleased to make the product, and we here in the Il2 community BEGGED for it. We got it.

The reason there are no US or Brit jets included in 1946 is because they are not part of the scope of the add-on. The 1946 add-on was not designed and created to provide a cross section of the military jets used in the year 1946. I am sorry but this is how it is. I didn't decide on this direction for the add-on. Personally I want an F7F Tigercat more that a fantasy German jet, but that wasn't the point behind this Russian-oriented add-on. That's how it is. Getting upset at members here because they point things out to you will not change that, and neither will taking your frustration out on them.

The developers of this sim did not go down the path of modelling a nice even early-jet planeset from all countries, because they wanted to do something else. That was their call, whether right or wrong. They are not based in the US or the UK, and their concept of "must-haves" may be different from yours or mine.

Now excuse me, but I must go shovel ice and frozen snow away from my car

AKA_TAGERT
03-18-2007, 08:07 AM
Originally posted by NDS_Camp.:
Look it up,
Actully it is you that 'needed' to look it up in that it was you that said..


Originally posted by NDS_Camp.:
so it would never have seen combat
Which was in error, which is why I pointed out that 4 of them went to the ETO.


Originally posted by NDS_Camp.:
2 were send to the UK and 2 to Italy but wen one of the Pre Production planes bursted into flames in the UK during an demonstration flight, they were grounded and never flew missions because of that during the war.
Did I say 'needed' to look it up? In light of this last statment you still 'need' to look it up becaused 2 of them did fly sorties (aka flew missions) thus your wrong to say they were grounded and NEVER flew missions.


Originally posted by NDS_Camp.:
But the YP-80 can pass in the game as a production model, its close enough.
If light of the fact that they flew missions in the ETO they are not only close enough, but valid additions.


Originally posted by NDS_Camp.:
I just really would like the other Allied Jet's with maybe the exeption of the P-59 because that plane had really poor performance compaired to the others.
I would like to win the loto and date a super model.. that and a dollar will get me a cut of coffie.

berg417448
03-18-2007, 09:39 AM
Originally posted by NDS_Camp.:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NDS_Camp.:
Yeah, but its the only one and the Y means its a Prototype so it would never have seen combat. The P-80 has wingtip tank's.
Actully 4 "Y" did fly sorties in the ETO </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Look it up, 2 were send to the UK and 2 to Italy but wen one of the Pre Production planes bursted into flames in the UK during an demonstration flight, they were grounded and never flew missions because of that during the war.

But the YP-80 can pass in the game as a production model, its close enough.

I just really would like the other Allied Jet's with maybe the exeption of the P-59 because that plane had really poor performance compaired to the others. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


P-80 flights in Italy during the war (with photos):

http://www.1stfighter.org/photos/P80inItaly.html

WhiteSnake_76
03-18-2007, 09:45 AM
ok, point made about the YP-80 but what about the other Jets, why are the so manny German planes that did not get past the prototype stages, so why are there no Metoers and Vampires than in the game? why has no one bothered to model one? These planes are still around so easy to take pictures and references of.

One thing i dont onderstand that the Mig-9 and Yak 15 are in the '46 game if its complatlly imposible for them to have existed if the war had not ended because they were made with captured technology and some even used German engines!
No one complains about these 2 aircraft yet a lot of people spend pages full with how inacurate the performance of the P-47's etc. in the game is.

Speaking about P-47's, it would be really nice to atleast have the P-47M of wich all were shipped to Europe and flew missions over Germany bringing down Me-262's

XyZspineZyX
03-18-2007, 01:06 PM
Originally posted by NDS_Camp.:
ok, point made about the YP-80 but what about the other Jets, why are the so manny German planes that did not get past the prototype stages, so why are there no Metoers and Vampires than in the game?

I just answered this http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Philipscdrw
03-18-2007, 05:38 PM
There's plenty of Allied jets in the sim. Yak-15, MiG-9, LaGG3-RD, I-250... some might argue that the USSR wasn't one of the Allies when those aircraft flew though.

VW-IceFire
03-18-2007, 06:09 PM
Nobody did the 3D model or cockpit for a Meteor I or III...thus we don't have one.

mcmmielli
03-22-2007, 12:00 PM
Gloster Meteor is the most important, Bell P-59A, De Havilland DH-100 Vampire, and the Nakajima Kikka in 7 August 1945 well be a great adition.

I realy want the P-59 and the Gloster Meteor, they are a wonderfull planes... And that we realy say "this is 1946"...

And well be a great adition to: Ryan FR-1 Fireball (March 1945), it´s a great idea!!!


And just we talk about prototypes: Kyushu (J7W1 - J7W2 Turbojet)in 3 August 1945 maybe Caproni-Campini N.1(italy) in sept 1940, Bell XP-83 in 25 February 1945, and Heinkel He 280 in 22 September 1940, and more, Su-9 in 13 November 1946.

XyZspineZyX
03-22-2007, 02:53 PM
Originally posted by mcmmielli: we realy say "this is 1946"...



OK, everyone listen up. This is the second time I've said this in one thread, so pay attention:

<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">Il2:Sturmovik:1946 is NOT supposed to showcase all the world's jets from the year 1946. It also was never intended to do anything but feature a proposed "what-if" scenario between two countries in 1946- the USSR and germany. And that is ALL. RRG studios made it this was on PURPOSE. The 1946 add-on was NOT supposed to be released in the West, it was designed and intended for the Russian market. Theyw ere not catering to the "all the world's jets" crowd with the concept. 1946 is exactly how it was designed to be. Support for this sim will no longer encompass additional projects to develop more aircraft such as the Airacomet, Vampire, Fireball, etc, etc. All official effort is not put forth on the next simulation. Please get used to these things</span>

FritzGryphon
03-22-2007, 03:21 PM
http://members.shaw.ca/evilgryphon/ownage.gif

VW-IceFire
03-22-2007, 06:08 PM
Originally posted by mcmmielli:
Gloster Meteor is the most important, Bell P-59A, De Havilland DH-100 Vampire, and the Nakajima Kikka in 7 August 1945 well be a great adition.

I realy want the P-59 and the Gloster Meteor, they are a wonderfull planes... And that we realy say "this is 1946"...

And well be a great adition to: Ryan FR-1 Fireball (March 1945), it´s a great idea!!!


And just we talk about prototypes: Kyushu (J7W1 - J7W2 Turbojet)in 3 August 1945 maybe Caproni-Campini N.1(italy) in sept 1940, Bell XP-83 in 25 February 1945, and Heinkel He 280 in 22 September 1940, and more, Su-9 in 13 November 1946.
Meteor III was a good plane. Meteor IV was a wonderful plane. The P-59 and wonderful should not exist in the same sentence from what I've read about it. Chronically underpowered.

mcmmielli
03-23-2007, 10:06 AM
Meteor III was a good plane. Meteor IV was a wonderful plane. The P-59 and wonderful should not exist in the same sentence from what I've read about it. Chronically underpowered.

I know, the P59 don´t have good performace: Maximum speed: 413 mph (664 km/h)
Range: 240 mi (386 km)
Service ceiling: 46,200 ft (14,080 m)
Rate of climb: 3,200 ft/min (16,26 m/s)
Armament
1x 37 mm cannon
3x .50 cal (12.7 mm) machine guns

But was America's first jet aircraft. For that reason alone, the aircraft is of historic significance.
For the same reason the YAK-15, LaGG-3RD, and Su-9 are to.
And more, the performace of this planes (YAK-15, LaGG-3RD and Su-9) is poor to.
The Yak-15 have a poor performace but a good maneuverability.
The LAGG-3RD have a terryble performace, and poor maneurability (i don´t know wy..)
The Sukhoi Su-9 (1946) have a very good performace, no more to the ME262, but a good performace, a great adition and in historic moment...

Specifications (Su-9):

General characteristics
Crew: One
Length: 10.57 m (34 ft 8 in)
Wingspan: 11.21 m (36 ft 9 in)
Height: 3.72 m (12 ft 2 in)
Wing area: 20.24 m² (217.87 ft²)
Empty weight: 4 060 kg (8,950 lb)
Loaded weight: 5 890 kg (12,990 lb)
Max takeoff weight: 6 380 kg (14,070 lb)
Powerplant: 2× Tumansky RD-10 turbojets, 8.8 kN (1,984 lbf) each
Fuel capacity: 1 750 kg (3,860 lb)

Performance
Maximum speed: 885 km/h (480 knots, 550 mph) at 5 000 m (16,405 ft)
Range: 1 140 km (615 nm, 710 mi)
Service ceiling: 12,800 m (41,984 ft)
Rate of climb: 4.2 min to 5 000 m (16,405 ft)
Wing loading: 291 kg/m² (60 lb/ft²)
Thrust/weight: 0.31
Endurance: 1 hour 44 minutes

Armament
1x 37 mm Nudelman N-37 cannon with 30 rounds (1x 45 mm Nudelman N-45 could be fitted instead)
2x 23 mm Nudelman-Suranov NS-23 cannon with 200 rounds/gun
Up to 500 kg (1,100 lb) of bombs (1x FAB-500 or 2x FAB-250)

XyZspineZyX
03-23-2007, 10:31 AM
Wahat is this discussion about? Perhaps I just don't understand that

Vike
03-24-2007, 10:19 AM
Don't worry,you've been well heard here! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


Originally posted by BBB462cid:
OK, everyone listen up. This is the second time I've said this in one thread, so pay attention:

<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">Il2:Sturmovik:1946 is NOT supposed to showcase all the world's jets from the year 1946. It also was never intended to do anything but feature a proposed "what-if" scenario between two countries in 1946- the USSR and germany. And that is ALL. RRG studios made it this was on PURPOSE. The 1946 add-on was NOT supposed to be released in the West, it was designed and intended for the Russian market. Theyw ere not catering to the "all the world's jets" crowd with the concept. 1946 is exactly how it was designed to be. Support for this sim will no longer encompass additional projects to develop more aircraft such as the Airacomet, Vampire, Fireball, etc, etc. All official effort is not put forth on the next simulation. Please get used to these things</span>

Well said by the way http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

I'm personally fond of the German way of rendering aerodynamic fuselages & their design and think they were quite ahead of their time,as for the piston fighters as for the Jets fighters. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I wouldn't say west-allied jet technology is less interesting,but...It was "aesthetically different" and very probably not better,considering the fact the allies literally pushed headlong toward German Jets blueprints at the war end. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

@+

VMF-214_HaVoK
03-24-2007, 11:38 AM
If we had them, how many times would you actually fly them? Seriously. So many times on these forums people have screamed for aircraft and when you go online you rarely see a person in one. Sure some planes are still needed but most just want aircraft for the sake of having them. When actually they may spend an hour or two flying it.

Daiichidoku
03-25-2007, 09:24 AM
Originally posted by ImpStarDuece:
Perhaps its something to do with the fact that the Pe-2 and 1946 add-ons were never meant for release outside of 1C's Russian distribution network, and therefore are primarily marketed at Russian interests?


not attacking you, IMP....but i am SO BLOODY tired of hearing this NONSENSE

russian interests? that necessarily means the all russian game players want all or mostly russian planes????

whattaloadashiit!

im SURE that almost all russian players, if asked what they want in a new cd would all reply "we want a good balance of all nations planes, in all possible time periods, in all possible geographic areas of WWII

just like most players in america, britain, etc, would likely want it, too, native content taking perhaps a shade more than other stuff, but still balanced

you gonna sell a man in the desert concrete, glass, and sandpapaer? no! you sell him water!

SAVVY?? (apologies to TAGERT)

XyZspineZyX
03-25-2007, 01:45 PM
Whether or not you say it's baloney, that's what this community was told. You may have forgotten all of the sig line graphics that were here last year, that read "We want the Russian add-ons for the Western market!"

I have not forgotten them, and I have not forgotten all the discussion about it

Also, you may note that while Pe-2 is just a Russian plane, both v4.06 (Sturmoviks over Manchuria) and 4.07 (1946) feature many aircraft that are NOT Russian. Obviously, this means that peopl in the Russian market are both interested in getting more than just Russian aircraft, and this desire was in fact catered to by the team that developed fully 2/3rds of those add-ons

I am sorry you think that it's a bunch of bull, and I wish I could tell you that your frustration with hearing that bunch of bull over and over is a pantload, but unfortunately, what I read about it is contradictory to your standpoint. I don't know what to say. By now, we have understood that what 1C:Maddox Games does is not required to make sense to us, I should hope

Viper2005_
03-25-2007, 01:58 PM
The fact is that we get what people make.

We don't have British jet fighters because nobody felt like taking the time to make any.

I'd love to fly a Vampire against a MiG-9, but it's not going to happen.

This has very little to do with target markets. The fact is that the target market for flightsims as a whole is pretty tiny, and if you simply want to make money there are easier ways to do it, irrespective of the aircraft you choose to simulate. As such, most flightsims end up being made by enthusiasts. Ditto most of the aircraft for them.

What we get really depends more than anything upon what those people with the time and talent feel enthused to model.