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View Full Version : UK, chanell 5, 8PM!!



XyZspineZyX
09-05-2003, 02:08 PM
Greatest military clashes.

Examines the performances of the spitfire and bf109 in relation to each other.

Possibly nothing new to anyone here, but could be a cracking bit of friday night viewing.

Sadly I can't get 5 (south east - the French complained!) so if anyone can tape it for me!/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Anyway, tata, OJ

XyZspineZyX
09-05-2003, 02:08 PM
Greatest military clashes.

Examines the performances of the spitfire and bf109 in relation to each other.

Possibly nothing new to anyone here, but could be a cracking bit of friday night viewing.

Sadly I can't get 5 (south east - the French complained!) so if anyone can tape it for me!/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Anyway, tata, OJ

XyZspineZyX
09-05-2003, 04:32 PM
Yes I'll be watching it but I am pretty sure it's going to be bad. Having seen a few of Channel 5's selection of documentaries I won't be suprised if it's biased or badly researched and presented.

Then again there are quite a few bad documentaries going around. For example that History professor who did those "Battlefield" documentaries has to be the most biased historian I have seen on TV.

I believe he is trying to up his ratings by catering to the patriotic feelings of his audience. He is very selective with the information he presents. The one about the area bombing of Germany by the RAF was a disgrace, he stated that the RAF had targeted industrial areas and that collateral damage was inevitable in these large scale attacks.

That type of propaganda still exists today, Britain's policy was to bomb the civilian population and that was that.

Oops going on a bit of a rant there, don't get me wrong I'm British but I hate biased reporting.

XyZspineZyX
09-05-2003, 04:41 PM
Get SKY and you can get it all over the country - I too am in the southeat (nr Brighton).

Could tape it, convert it to DivX and post it somewhere but its the wifes TV night and I get to faf around on the PC.

XyZspineZyX
09-05-2003, 04:45 PM
I quite agree,

However, in the preview that I read in todays papers, it states that the program deals, in the main, with the relative merits of the two aircraft.

I think the crux is likely to be a re-examination of the commonly held perception that the battle of britain was won by the superiority of the spitfire to the bf109.

As I said, the program is unlikely to be too challenging to anyone with a keener interest in ww2 aviation history, but I'd still like to see it - if only for the footage!

Tata, OJ

XyZspineZyX
09-05-2003, 05:28 PM
I watched last week's programme with the Sherman vs the Tiger and thought it was quite well produced, explaining the fors and againsts each.

Filmed mostly at Bovington tank museum, they were trundling around in a preserved Sherman and Tiger, comparing engine performance, gun velocities, tactics adopted etc.

Several ex WW2 tank crews debated their merits and faults and how finally it was a matter of superior Sherman numbers overwhelming the Tigers that made the difference.

Should be interesting to see how they compare the Spit/109 with only one Mk1 Spit still preserved and available and no 109 Emils (that I'm aware of), assuming this will be BoB-based argument. Maybe they'll rely on war footage and pilots' memories.

XyZspineZyX
09-05-2003, 06:15 PM
Thx for the heads up, will be watching that tonight <S>

XyZspineZyX
09-05-2003, 06:52 PM
Yea, thnx. i`ll be watching just for any interesting footage. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

"Tis better to work towards an Impossible Good, rather than a Possible Evil."

SeaFireLIV.

XyZspineZyX
09-05-2003, 07:07 PM
OJ79 wrote:
- Sadly I can't get 5 (south east - the French
- complained!)

On what grounds? Surely can't be too much nudity!

If I can fiddle with my TV card and reception to
get a decent C5 signal in the next 40 minutes I
can try recording it digitally, if you have ADSL.
(Main TV currently in use - so no VCR)

XyZspineZyX
09-05-2003, 07:09 PM
choxaway wrote:
- Filmed mostly at Bovington tank museum, they were
- trundling around in a preserved Sherman and Tiger,
- comparing engine performance, gun velocities,
- tactics adopted etc.

Our WW2 reenactment (US troops) had a Sherman. I
never got to trundle in it. It wasn't really designed
for anyone over about 5'9" I think, though. Surprisingly
non roomy, even when essentially empty!

I think in WW2 I would have been very thankful for
my flat feet, short sight and asthma!

XyZspineZyX
09-05-2003, 07:23 PM
i got a crap set of dung im my tv guide e.g the eclpitic wings of the spitfire are susposed to make it more manoverable which is wrong it reduced its roll rate thats why they were cliped later on the 109 was aa better plane if the tables were turned at the 109's wernt operating at the end of thier range then they would of won it was aa supiour plane any construtive critism of what i said

XyZspineZyX
09-05-2003, 07:47 PM
Thx Aaron but no ADSL, so dont worry!

The Signal carries across the chanell and it violates some kind of law. Hence No-one in this region can get 5.

Doesn't normally bother me, except for now,

tata, oj

XyZspineZyX
09-05-2003, 08:00 PM
I can't see how they are going to argue it..Early in the War the Spit and Bf109 on the whole were evenly matched. Who came out on top was determined by who had the tactical advantage, pilot skill, better tactics, who saw who first, etc. You couldn't really say one was 'better' than the other. It was circumstances and the object between joystick and seat that made the difference.

Later in the war, the late mark Spitfires were demonstrably superior to the equivalent period 109's but even then, the human factors mentioned above would still have the biggest effect on the outcome of a combat.

"If I had all the money I've spent on drink....I'd spend it on drink!"

XyZspineZyX
09-05-2003, 08:09 PM
Haha

I'm watching it now, and they say that there is evidence to suggest that the 109 could outturn the Spit, but because it is a more unforgiving aircraft, the Spit pilots trusted their steeds more. The result was 9 times out of 10 the Spits out-turned the 109s.

So in a way the Spits were the better aircraft.
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BobTuck.

XyZspineZyX
09-05-2003, 08:12 PM
they got vids of a flying 109 with DB egine hich is sweet not sure on the mk an earlyier one i think they say that the 109 was less forgiving and needed a beter piolt to take it to the edge but the spit was so easy that any one could take it to the edge it is bias they are concntatng more on the 109 weakness than the spits but the 109 will come out on top because of the 20mm cannons i recon the 109 and hurricane RULES the spit is great plane and desgned by a stokie like me

XyZspineZyX
09-05-2003, 08:25 PM
u c the 109 in the reconstruction 109's flying right onhis wingmans 6 the propwash would of been taerriable
but over alll they said that they is nothing that makes either of these planes better each have strenghs and weakness so tehe decideding factor was the man flying it

XyZspineZyX
09-05-2003, 08:25 PM
Conclusion.....No Overall Winner, Depends on the pilot, the re-inactment was quite cool, decent graphics.

XyZspineZyX
09-05-2003, 08:33 PM
Well I was pleasantly suprised it was quite good in the end after all!

The only problem I had with it was that they didn't mention rate of climb and I thought that the 109 had a canopy release that when activated the airflow ripped it right off.

Another thing was that shouldn't the 20mm cannon shells explode as well? The were only using AP rounds in the demonstration.

I can't wait till we get some Spits to fly cause I love both of these planes.

XyZspineZyX
09-05-2003, 08:35 PM
Well I was quite impressed by it. The program was less biased than I expected. Didn`t know the Spit suffered from neg Gs though- the long-lost brother of the I-16.

If we at last get the Spit, it won`t be an instant noob plane then, cos of the neg G thing, yet it will ultimately outturn the 109 in most cases and has the faster speed.

The Spit is still the best, but I guess one could argue that the 109 is too (in its own territory!). /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

"Tis better to work towards an Impossible Good, rather than a Possible Evil."

SeaFireLIV.

XyZspineZyX
09-05-2003, 08:51 PM
I don't think they were biased towards the Spit - I think they were fair all round.

The reconstruction niggled me a bit though. They said the Spits were keeping just out of gun range of the 109s..

WHICH WAS UTTER CRAP! >/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

they were well within range, actually quite close. I estimate between 100m and 200m. An attacking aircraft can be so small that it is hidden by a canopy strut, and yet still be within an acceptable gun range!

Your thoughts on this matter, anyone?

b.t.w. As far as I can recall the 109s (in the BoB) did use explosive 20mm cannon shells.

BobTuck

p.s. Have you noticed there is a special edition BoB Flypast magazine in the newsagents?

XyZspineZyX
09-05-2003, 08:53 PM
I agree, from the perceived range that I saw I would`ve opened fire- definitely.



"Tis better to work towards an Impossible Good, rather than a Possible Evil."

SeaFireLIV.

XyZspineZyX
09-05-2003, 09:14 PM
Just watched it - nowhere near as horrible as I was expecting and much better than the "Battle Stations" series Channel 4 showed a few month back. There was actually an attempt to explain the strengths and weaknesses of the two aircraft.

Quite interesting to hear the comments about the difficulty of leaving a burning 109.

Regards,

RocketDog.

XyZspineZyX
09-05-2003, 09:42 PM
Ratbags. Can't get Channel 5 here in the southwest either. Bah humbug.
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

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XyZspineZyX
09-05-2003, 09:49 PM
SeaFireLIV wrote:
- Well I was quite impressed by it. The program was
- less biased than I expected. Didn`t know the Spit
- suffered from neg Gs though- the long-lost brother
- of the I-16.
-
- If we at last get the Spit, it won`t be an instant
- noob plane then, cos of the neg G thing, yet it will
- ultimately outturn the 109 in most cases and has the
- faster speed.
-
- The Spit is still the best, but I guess one could
- argue that the 109 is too (in its own territory!).
- /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
-
- "Tis better to work towards an Impossible Good,
- rather than a Possible Evil."
-
- SeaFireLIV.

all carb fed engines would do this