PDA

View Full Version : P-38 Flyers



AllorNothing117
11-03-2008, 05:31 AM
How many of us are they? I'm sure your all beter than me, got any tips specific to the P-38. I know the basics of attackrunning and can usually win 2v2 against 109s and Zeros on Average AI. Just hoping for some friendly advice from those flying the best plane out there! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

HayateAce
11-03-2008, 07:11 AM
It's simple against contemporary Japanese planes and P38J vs 109G2 and earlier.

Stay fast, bnz. In short, dictate the fight. Stay patient, pick your shots. Sometimes the .50s are all you need.

Vs. 190s: Turn 'em and burn'em! Don't get suckered into getting too close, keep them out front and wait for them to try to climb up over you and do one of those uber rolls to pull through you. You can out climb them and out turn them. It's fun. That is 1v1. If he has a buddy within 8000 km you will get spray and prayed with their 25 on board laser trajectory no-aim canons and one flick will saw your entire P38 in half, which is a bug.

HayateAce
11-03-2008, 08:27 AM
Part two:

Keep the BnZ trajectory FLAT. These are more like slashing attacks, in that you don't enter steep dive. In IL2 the P38 has been hampered with an unrealistic compressibility effect. Up high it would be believable, but not down in the thicker air below 10,000ft where most IL2 action takes place.

Remember this a/c roll rate is horrid. Fly accordingly. Also, its acceleration is awesome. Don't come to rely on it, but it will bail your jimmies out of a jam.

RAF_OldBuzzard
11-03-2008, 09:09 AM
Set your convergence to 1000m on the P-38. The guns are so close together to start with that you don't want them to 'converge' and then start spreading out again. With the P-38 you can hit and kill other aircraft at much longer ranges than something like a P-47 or P-51 because of that. I whack Zeros and 190s at 600m on a regular basis. DEFLECTION SHOTS are your friend. Learn how to do them.

With the L models, learn to use the Dive Flaps. They are especially useful for getting that "extra bit of turn" which will get you a shot if used briefly. Do't keep them out for very long, as they will slow you down. 2-3 seconds at the most.

The compressability is way over-modeled, but with the L's the dive flaps will overcome it. With the J, you can roll in a lot of UP TRIM and that will overcome it as well. That's not 'realistic', but then neither is the way the compressability is modeled.

Like the other guys said. Fly fast, stay fast, and don't get into a turning fight if at all possible.

Need to get some altitude in a hurry? Learn to do Chandelles. The P-38 does those well, and you get a good altitude increase with a minimun of airspeed loss using them.

WholeHawg
11-03-2008, 09:49 AM
Originally posted by RAF_OldBuzzard:
Set your convergence to 1000m on the P-38. The guns are so close together to start with that you don't want them to 'converge' and then start spreading out again. With the P-38 you can hit and kill other aircraft at much longer ranges than something like a P-47 or P-51 because of that. I whack Zeros and 190s at 600m on a regular basis. DEFLECTION SHOTS are your friend. Learn how to do them.

With the L models, learn to use the Dive Flaps. They are especially useful for getting that "extra bit of turn" which will get you a shot if used briefly. Do't keep them out for very long, as they will slow you down. 2-3 seconds at the most.

The compressability is way over-modeled, but with the L's the dive flaps will overcome it. With the J, you can roll in a lot of UP TRIM and that will overcome it as well. That's not 'realistic', but then neither is the way the compressability is modeled.

Like the other guys said. Fly fast, stay fast, and don't get into a turning fight if at all possible.

Need to get some altitude in a hurry? Learn to do Chandelles. The P-38 does those well, and you get a good altitude increase with a minimun of airspeed loss using them.

I may be wrong here but in AC with nose mounted weaponry, I think the convergence is only used to determine the distance at which the rounds pass through the center of gunsight i.e. for elevation purposes only. As opposed to wing mounted weaponry which has to account for both a windage and elevation element.
So if you were to set it out too far you may have difficulty with closer targets and find yourself shooting over the target.

p51srule
11-03-2008, 11:37 AM
The p38 is a good plane but I can beat the p38 in a p51 at any height. Ill fly the p38 or the bf110 if im hunting for bombers. ( I mostly go with the p38) That 20mm nose gun plus 8 .50 cals is a death sentins to bombers and fighters.

P51srule http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif

"Speed is life in a dogfight"

JtD
11-03-2008, 02:14 PM
Pulling up vertical at low speeds is something the P-38 can do like (almost) no other plane, as it does not drop a wing. It can also maintain a tremendously steep angle (attack and climb combined). Fun thing to do, but slow is always a bit dangerous in combat. I'd slow speed maneuvre fight with any 109 later than G-2 and all Fw, but not with the Japanese planes. It's just fun. Unless you forget to use the flaps.

Bremspropeller
11-03-2008, 03:00 PM
got any tips specific to the P-38

Yeah, take another a/c. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif

Great for PTO, but nothing special at ETO.

K_Freddie
11-03-2008, 03:15 PM
Speed is the only p38 option - either BnZ or run.

Phil_C
11-03-2008, 03:44 PM
Im no expert by any means but im flying a battle of the bulge campaign with the -38 and i ove how its fast, can carry what i need to knock down the supply lines, and can mix it up in the air with the -109s and 110s when i need to.

plus it takes a ton of crap and keeps going

Treetop64
11-03-2008, 03:56 PM
Speed and Climb Rate are you ultimate advantages in a clean and light P-38.

HayateAce
11-03-2008, 05:56 PM
Originally posted by Bremspropeller:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">got any tips specific to the P-38

Yeah, take another a/c. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif

Great for PTO, but nothing special at ETO. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My J is very special against 190s.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

Bremspropeller
11-03-2008, 06:07 PM
http://www.armyofmom.com/uploaded_images/ranger-up-hot-chick-741514.jpg

Define..."special"! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

WTE_Galway
11-03-2008, 06:22 PM
Use its speed and altitude advantages to dominate the choice of when and how to fight. Engage and disengage when it is to your advantage and do not get suckered into low altitude (below 6000 meters is low altitude for the p38) turn fights.

If you really really must turn with it use asymmetric thrust.

HayateAce
11-03-2008, 09:30 PM
http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/500/applause.gif

Erkki_M
11-03-2008, 11:17 PM
What is this "compressability problems" you are talking about? Never had any trouble pulling up from a dive in P38.

In theory, you can turnfight late 109s and all FW190s + you are faster than some 109s. Against the Japs you must B&Z or D&B. In practice, you will find the cockpit view much worse than in others, roll rate being poor(making steep B&Z attacks on an evading target impossible) and you will find your beautiful '38 miss its either or both tail(s) after the first hit(HayateAce: as it did IRL). An excellent assault aircraft with (relatively) limited air combat capacity.

AllorNothing117
11-04-2008, 08:08 AM
Chandelles?
A/C?

Divine-Wind
11-04-2008, 08:50 AM
Originally posted by AllorNothing117:
Chandelles?
The Chandelle was a maneuver used by, if I'm not mistaken, carrier pilots to quickly gain altitude after take-off, without losing too much speed. I forgot exactly how it's done, but I'll find a diagram in a bit.

Edit: Basic diagram of the Chandelle:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/32/Chandelle.jpg
Basically it's a shallow climb combined with a turn.



A/C?
Air Conditioning. A very important feature of the P-38, as comfort is essential to a fighter pilot's success. Just ask anyone around here! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Nah, just kidding. A/C refers to AirCraft. Although the P-38 really did have very basic air conditioning.

AllorNothing117
11-04-2008, 09:10 AM
Yeah I heard about the Air-Con http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Thanks, I've done that 100 times and not known it was a Chandelle! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

JtD
11-04-2008, 09:24 AM
Originally posted by Erkki_M:
What is this "compressability problems" you are talking about? Never had any trouble pulling up from a dive in P38.

Pick the J, go into a 45? dive, don't trim and pull out at 750. See if you can do it before the aircraft falls apart. Or, simpler, in a high speed dive see if you can follow the pull out of a 109.


...roll rate being poor(making steep B&Z attacks on an evading target impossible)...

Actually the L model has the best or at least one of the best high speed roll rates in game. If a 190 gets onto your tail, you can actually shake it in a dive by rolling and employing dive brakes and pulling out. The time the 190 has followed your roll, he'll find it impossible to pull out in time for a shot. Unless of course you screw up the timing.

Daiichidoku
11-04-2008, 09:38 AM
Originally posted by HayateAce:
Remember this a/c roll rate is horrid

the J's have average roll, the L's have unsurpassed roll at high speeds, NOTHING will out-roll it at 350+mph

fly accordingly



Originally posted by p51srule:
The p38 is a good plane but I can beat the p38 in a p51 at any height.

you clearly have never met the right 38 pilots, likely you have bumbed into "bomb trucks" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif



Originally posted by JtD:
Pulling up vertical at low speeds is something the P-38 can do like (almost) no other plane

it does not drop a wing

It can also maintain a tremendously steep angle

he wants to know the game 38, not RL 38 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

ummmm again, you must be talking RL, cuz it da mn well drops a wing in game

it will maintain for about 10 seconds, then do a crazy and (RL) impossible "somersault"

some other types (P40, P51, notable) will momentarily flat spin inverted at top of zooms, most others, particularly LE-slat eq types, will go from pointing straight up to straight down again with full controls immediately

kinda the opposite of what happened IRL...



Originally posted by WTE_Galway:
do not get suckered into low altitude (below 6000 meters is low altitude for the p38) turn fights.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

clearly one must select their battles, but the 38 can wipe the floor with many so-called manuverable/"better down low" types, and will give fits to any anton, dora, or G6 or later 109 silly enough to test it on the deck

if you MUST fly that low, anyhow......id never recommend it as SOP http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

JtD
11-04-2008, 10:02 AM
Dai, while you sure can manage to drop a wing at low speed in the P-38, is is by far less likely to do it than other planes with similar high speed performance. You can quite comfortably maintain control at speeds as low as 120 km/h indicated. At that speed, it maintains a stable, sustained climb. Try that in a Fw 190A.

As long as I'm the only one on this board to land a P-38J on a stationary escort carrier, I'll consider myself a P-38 low speed handling expert. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

WOLFMondo
11-04-2008, 10:12 AM
Originally posted by Daiichidoku:

ummmm again, you must be talking RL, cuz it da mn well drops a wing in game

it will maintain for about 10 seconds, then do a crazy and (RL) impossible "somersault"


You can maintain a pretty high AoA spiral climb which not much can stick with almost indefinately.

HayateAce
11-04-2008, 10:38 AM
Originally posted by Daiichidoku:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HayateAce:
Remember this a/c roll rate is horrid

the J's have average roll, the L's have unsurpassed roll at high speeds, NOTHING will out-roll it at 350+mph

fly accordingly

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, I was referring to only the J.

You can't handle the J.

PS: You sure a pinwheeling 190 (with no drop in alt or pilot effect) won't outroll the L?

Divine-Wind
11-04-2008, 11:12 AM
Originally posted by JtD:
As long as I'm the only one on this board to land a P-38J on a stationary escort carrier, I'll consider myself a P-38 low speed handling expert. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
I must now attempt this feat.

SterlingX
11-04-2008, 03:52 PM
Originally posted by JtD:
You can quite comfortably maintain control at speeds as low as 120 km/h indicated. At that speed, it maintains a stable, sustained climb.


Bf109Z will climb at 120 km/h too, with combat flaps, and have a climb rate of about 20m/s.

josephs1959
11-04-2008, 04:50 PM
Originally posted by Bremspropeller:
http://www.armyofmom.com/uploaded_images/ranger-up-hot-chick-741514.jpg

Define..."special"! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

All right Bremspropeller, Share the goods and give us her; Phone number, Address, and kinky habits! NOW! or else! LOL Oh,,, I'm dying here.
Flight sim? what flight sim?

RAF_OldBuzzard
11-04-2008, 05:53 PM
Originally posted by JtD:... As long as I'm the only one on this board to land a P-38J on a stationary escort carrier, I'll consider myself a P-38 low speed handling expert. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Sorry JtD, but we in the RAF662 have done that more times than we can count. We have guys that have put Me-262's on a stationary carrier.

Actually, there arent very many Il2 planes that we HAVEN't landed on a stationary carrier.

It all goes back to our CFS1 roots and the RAF662's ARK Royal. In the RAF662 "Tailhooks are for sissys" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Erkki_M
11-04-2008, 10:57 PM
The hardest(of the flyables) aircraft to land on a stationary carrier is the TB-3 - the wingspan! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

WTE_Galway
11-04-2008, 11:08 PM
Originally posted by JtD:... As long as I'm the only one on this board to land a P-38J on a stationary escort carrier, I'll consider myself a P-38 low speed handling expert. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


If you are looking for some landing challenges or just feel like doing some tricky flying download this (the screenshots are from the second of 28 missions) ...


http://www.mission4today.com/index.php?name=Downloads&file=details&id=3102



http://combat-asylum.com/uploads/downloads/images/2007/10/369_7_grab0001_resize.jpg



http://combat-asylum.com/uploads/downloads/images/2007/10/369_7_grab0002_resize.jpg

JtD
11-05-2008, 08:06 AM
Originally posted by RAF_OldBuzzard:

Sorry JtD, but we in the RAF662 have done that more times than we can count. We have guys that have put Me-262's on a stationary carrier.

Actually, there arent very many Il2 planes that we HAVEN't landed on a stationary carrier.

It all goes back to our CFS1 roots and the RAF662's ARK Royal. In the RAF662 "Tailhooks are for sissys" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Hi mate, carrier isn't carrier - I landed the thing on an escort carrier (CVE or jeep carrier or baby carrier if you like). You guys really do this routinely? I doubt you did the 262 on a CVE, though. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Galway, I'll certainly try them. There is no challenge tricky or silly enough to not try. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Divine-Wind
11-05-2008, 10:39 AM
Originally posted by WTE_Galway:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JtD:... As long as I'm the only one on this board to land a P-38J on a stationary escort carrier, I'll consider myself a P-38 low speed handling expert. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


If you are looking for some landing challenges or just feel like doing some tricky flying download this (the screenshots are from the second of 28 missions) ... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Bugger! Now I must attempt this AND landing the P-38 on a baby carrier!

Daiichidoku
11-05-2008, 01:09 PM
i can get a 262 (safely) OFF an Akagi-class carrier.....

Hoatee
11-05-2008, 01:46 PM
I fly an me262 unsafely over (and sail a boot under) a carrier.

VW-IceFire
11-05-2008, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by HayateAce:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Daiichidoku:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HayateAce:
Remember this a/c roll rate is horrid

the J's have average roll, the L's have unsurpassed roll at high speeds, NOTHING will out-roll it at 350+mph

fly accordingly

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, I was referring to only the J.

You can't handle the J.

PS: You sure a pinwheeling 190 (with no drop in alt or pilot effect) won't outroll the L? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Pinwheeling 190s are always doing that at lower speeds. At high speeds the P-38L is the king of roll rates...as every other plane is slowing down in its roll rate the P-38L is reaching its maximum.

Bremspropeller
11-05-2008, 03:30 PM
I can land ANY plane on a stationary escort-carrier.
VERTICALLY.

Try THAT, feckers! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif



Joe, her phone-nuber is 555-RING-MY-BELLS she's a REAL ( http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif ) brunette and not only in flight-sims she likes to come from behind. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

She'd like to have huggy's phone number for talking about Angelina's big lips. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

HayateAce
11-05-2008, 03:36 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Bremspropeller
11-05-2008, 03:47 PM
At high speeds the P-38L is the king of roll rates...as every other plane is slowing down in its roll rate the P-38L is reaching its maximum.

That won't help much when the other guy dives away and when you're hitting Mcrit.