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AllorNothing117
02-26-2009, 02:54 PM
I have played IL-2 for about 10 months now and I've only ever flown the P-38 and P-51. Obviously I have flown other planes on the odd occasion, but never enough to actually be able to fly any of them properly. I only fly offline, so as you can imagine 10 months of offline Booming ‘n’ Zooming against A.I. has taken its toll on me and I'm sick of it!!! I'm not saying I can't do it, or that I need advice on how to do it. I think about half this forum can say "we've been there and done that AllorNothing117!" I can score about 4 kills against Veteran zeros in a 8v8 match.

I would really love to do some Dog fighting, something new. I've been experimenting in all sorts of planes, Kia-46, A6M-zero, FW-190, BF-109, Lag 7, Corsair, Hurricane, Spitfire, Tempest. O.k. half of those obviously aren't dogfighters, but I got carried away. The variety of planes is astounding! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Top marks Oleg! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

So what I'd love to know is, if you were in my shoes what would you fly? I found the Japanese planes too slow... Well I found everything to slow after the P-38/P-51!!! I'm looking for something manoeuvrable but fast. I'm looking for something with good rear visibility and good armament. I'm looking for a dogfighter... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Any ideas?

thefruitbat
02-26-2009, 03:03 PM
bf 109 f4 on the eastern front, late 1941-1942. If you want good dogfighting thats the place to go offline. In no other plane in any timeframe can i rack up as many kills through dogfighting, You don't have to be stuck on end of the war planes, i don't like late 109's, but in 41 its my top choice, planes vary through the years, its one of the things i like most aboult il2.

fruitbat

Ba5tard5word
02-26-2009, 03:07 PM
Try the Ki-84, it's a very fast Japanese plane with good armament. Pretty maneuverable though it tends to flip over a bit when in a tight turn.

The N1K1 is good too but it has automatic combat flaps which makes it hard to use--if you pull up a tiny bit to try and aim at an enemy, often the flaps deploy and your nose rises up sharply, which I can't get the hang of.

Maybe try the Yaks if you haven't already, they are pretty good.

doogerie
02-26-2009, 03:27 PM
well it all depends what your fighting stiel is for me it's alll diving to engae and fasturning to evade and head on ect so for me at the moment i am i to Spits thay are true dogfighter and totaly iconic aircraft (in my eyes at least)the fW 109 was used in support in WW2 (take a look at anyhting about BoB (the real thing not the game)and was germanys Air supioraty fighter. the remark about the jap's aircraft confused me the Zero was the fastest air craft in the japanes fleet in 1942 (check that date)and you should know that the wildcat can out out run the Zero. Try some of the Ussr's aircraft or if all else fails JETS are really fast

AllorNothing117
02-26-2009, 03:47 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif well as I mentioned I'm, used to the P-38 and P-51 so it'll take me a while to get used to other aircraft http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif especialy dogfighting, all the turns tend to slow me down. It'll take abit of getting used to but I'd love to give it a try.

crucislancer
02-26-2009, 04:53 PM
When you were flying the P-38 and P-51, what were you up against most, Japanese or German? Whenever I was comfortable with a plane, I would next fly the contemporary adversary to that plane. Once you understand that plane, move back. I went back and forth for a while, where I would fly a Bf109 for a while, then a Spitfire, then a Fw190, then a P-47, and so on. It helps mix it up, and you get an understanding of how your opponent flies, his strengths and weaknesses.

And, if that's not going to work for you, then fly a Spitfire. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Aviar
02-26-2009, 05:21 PM
Have you ever flown online....against humans? Hard to beat that for excitement.

Personally, I would get bored with the AI after about 45 minutes. Been flying IL-2 online for over 5 years.

Aviar

jamesblonde1979
02-26-2009, 05:29 PM
Hi Allornothing,

If I was in your situation I'd get into a campaign. There are some really great stock and add-on campaigns out there which follow the course of the war from different perspectives and include flying a variety of aircraft on different types of missions.

Fighter, fighter-bomber, level bomber, torpedo bomber or dive bomber, it's all covered.

If you are really into dogfighting and want a serious challenge then give the Finland campaigns a go. There are some great dogfights to be had between Gladiators, Fiat G-50s, Hurricanes and Buffaloes against I-16s, I-153s, LaGG-3s and Mig-3s.

I usually challenge myself by trying to see how far into a campaign I can survive. If I get KIA or POW then I take a screenshot of my pilot record screen, delete the campaign and start again. Putting the emphasis on survival really helps you to fly correctly and not fall into bad habits that will punish you online.

Something to think about for you anyway.

I_KG100_Prien
02-26-2009, 05:35 PM
Ditch the Sissy rides.

Pick up the steeds of the true warrior:

B-25
A-20
P-47 (With Ground Pounding Loadout)
IL-2/IL-10
Pe-2/3
Ju-87
Ju-88
Bf-110
He-111

HayateAce
02-26-2009, 06:07 PM
The best overall dogfighting machine in IL2 is the Yak3. Fast, eye-watering turn, decent diver, outstanding rear-vis, decent roll, good climb and acceptable high-speed maneuverability.

Sounds perfect?

The catch is you'd better be an ace on the trigger. Only 2 x .50's and 1 x 20mm. On top of that, only enough ammo for around a dozen bursts. However, the ROF is quick and you can do some serious damage if you aim well.

You can take on anything from Zeros to D9's, because anything it can't out turn, it can out run, and vice versa. You will get the ocassional RunNinety® that you won't be able to catch, but those guys aren't much sport to shoot down anyway. Let them run and climb instead.

It's pure gold to saddle up on a 109 and watch him struggle to out turn you while you pick him apart. Again, if you are a great shot the Yak3 will provide lots of fireworks. As a bonus, it's the most correct looking dogfighter in the game.

http://media.ubi.com/us/forum_images/gf-glomp.gif

http://www.yakuk.com/img/yak3-7.jpg

Zeus-cat
02-26-2009, 06:41 PM
Dogfighting is only part of this game. Try any of my campaigns using a "crap" plane and see how it feels to be on the receiving end.

mortoma
02-26-2009, 06:51 PM
Originally posted by Zeus-cat:
Dogfighting is only part of this game. Try any of my campaigns using a "crap" plane and see how it feels to be on the receiving end. Wow, the filter allows the word "crap" now?? It's been blocked for years!

crucislancer
02-26-2009, 06:56 PM
Originally posted by HayateAce:
The best overall dogfighting machine in IL2 is the Yak3. Fast, eye-watering turn, decent diver, outstanding rear-vis, decent roll, good climb and acceptable high-speed maneuverability.

Sounds perfect?

The catch is you'd better be an ace on the trigger. Only 2 x .50's and 1 x 20mm. On top of that, only enough ammo for around a dozen bursts. However, the ROF is quick and you can do some serious damage if you aim well.

You can take on anything from Zeros to D9's, because anything it can't out turn, it can out run, and vice versa. You will get the ocassional RunNinety® that you won't be able to catch, but those guys aren't much sport to shoot down anyway. Let them run and climb instead.

It's pure gold to saddle up on a 109 and watch him struggle to out turn you while you pick him apart. Again, if you are a great shot the Yak3 will provide lots of fireworks. As a bonus, it's the most correct looking dogfighter in the game.

http://media.ubi.com/us/forum_images/gf-glomp.gif

http://www.yakuk.com/img/yak3-7.jpg

+1

The Yak-3 is a blast to fly. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

danjama
02-26-2009, 08:07 PM
Next for something completely different i would fly the FW190A6-A9 or the Tempest! Both of these birds take serious dedication to master! And get online http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Buzzsaw-
02-26-2009, 08:30 PM
Salute

The best close in low speed dogfighters in the game are the Spitfire +25 boost, and the La-7 late models. The Yak-3 is pretty good too, but fragile and undergunned.

The best boom and zoomer in the game is the 190D9 1944 model. It can also knifefight in close in amazingly well as long as you don't hang around too long.

The 109K4-C3 stands somewhere between these two opposite types.

All these planes are better than the P-51 or P-38 as far as dogfighting is concerned.

And as someone mentioned, get online, it is far more entertaining fighting unpredictable humans as part of an online Squad.

http://www.raf74.com/

Cheers RAF74 Buzzsaw

http://i282.photobucket.com/al...opy.gif?t=1227377689 (http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk277/justinmarsh1980/10yearscopy.gif?t=1227377689)

Enforcer572005
02-26-2009, 08:41 PM
You haven't really realized what this sim is until you get online. I didn't for the first 6 or so yrs this was out, but once I was convinced to try it, I joined the hellhounds and have been flying a great deal online. u really can't see what these AC can do until humans have flown them. Much more realistic.

na85
02-26-2009, 11:01 PM
I'm going to second the Yak3 idea. The Yakovlev series are my favorite aircraft in the game, and all of them can be rewarding if you spend the time to learn their nuances.

But if you want REAL excitement, few things compare to flying an IL2 at treetop height, evading enemies and taking fire from AAA.

Freiwillige
02-27-2009, 01:08 AM
Flying against yaks I never have a problem in my 109 or 190.

Olegs favorite plane is the 109 and for good reason!

But for you I would recommend the Spitfire. Its a legend.

p1ngu666
02-27-2009, 01:10 AM
Originally posted by I_KG100_Prien:
Ditch the Sissy rides.

Pick up the steeds of the true warrior:

B-25
A-20
P-47 (With Ground Pounding Loadout)
IL-2/IL-10
Pe-2/3
Ju-87
Ju-88
Bf-110
He-111

+1 to that http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
mudmoving is the biggest challenge in il2, not secondary hero dogfighter planes http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

and yes, play online more fun http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

AllorNothing117
02-27-2009, 06:30 AM
I'm gonna go try the yak, I'd like to fly a russian plane and my dad fly's it allot and rates it.

Also, I'd love to go onlnie but dad won't let me, and thats the reason I'm dogifghting is becasue I'm sick of the AI when I do attack running and I hope it will seem less stupid/cheaty if I go dogfighting.

AllorNothing117
02-27-2009, 06:47 AM
Well clearly the Yak is great turner, but I had allot less sucess than in the Lag becasue 109's and FW190 kept outrunning me, excpet perhaps the BF 109 f. Think overall i preffer the lag, seems a better alrounder, even if it isn't quiet as good at the turny stuff.

HayateAce
02-27-2009, 08:52 AM
The Yak will eat the LaGG for lunch. Maybe the LaGG is suiting your skill level or style at the moment.

Remember that the ai cheats and in the latest official game iteration when the ai sees that it has lost the initial merge, it simply puts its aircraft into an untouchable climbing right-hand turn. If you are painfully bored, you can put your game on autopilot and fast forward the speed. Your autopiloted plane will sometimes catch the ai and get you back in firing range.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Xiolablu3
02-27-2009, 10:21 AM
I htink he might mean the La5 and La7 when he says 'Lagg'

K_Freddie
02-27-2009, 11:38 AM
If you're playin 100%, then any plane is good. you can be in a biplane and wipe out the Yak3.., not to mention the Fiesler Storch
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Ba5tard5word
02-27-2009, 11:43 AM
AllorNothing maybe try a campaign, like someone said...each mission will be different and you'll have to deal with different scenarios, like taking on bombers while evading escort fighters, or protecting your own bombers, etc.

I tried to set up my Air Pirates campaign to provide a lot of variety--the link to it is in my signature...or most any other campaign will be good too.

danjama
02-27-2009, 11:54 AM
Or download a mission generator like UQMG where you can setup your own missions!

na85
02-27-2009, 12:35 PM
If you want to learn the 109 I would recommend Flatspinman's Afrika! campaign. He's also got a good one for the Hurricane set in the Battle of France.

TS_Sancho
02-27-2009, 01:27 PM
1V1 the Yak3 is the best pure dogfighter bar none. HayateAce summed it up best in his "anything it cant outrun it can outturn" comment. The Yak3P has a heavier armorment of 3 20mm cannon and with that it doesnt take much. The KI84 is a lot of airplane as well although if you've done well with the P51 and understand what "energy" is all about you might try the FW190D9. I know you mentioned you dont care for the German aircraft because of ideaology but by dismissing the FW's offhand you are really shortchanging yourself.
As a second if you want a good challenge and want to trade the speed advantage you learned in the P38 for the superior turnrate the Zero's enjoy try flying the Hurricane IIC vs. the BF109F4. Its a great match and should give you a good appreciation of how to negate a faster aircrafts advantage.

HayateAce
02-27-2009, 01:51 PM
Oh right, I think he does mean La5/7. When one of my kids wants to "try a kill online" I put them in the 109G2 or an La5/7.

Swivet
02-27-2009, 02:00 PM
Originally posted by AllorNothing117:
Well clearly the Yak is great turner, but I had allot less sucess than in the Lag becasue 109's and FW190 kept outrunning me, excpet perhaps the BF 109 f. Think overall i preffer the lag, seems a better alrounder, even if it isn't quiet as good at the turny stuff.

Remember to make good use of engine management.prop pitch, fuel mixture, trim, altitude. Broaden your horizons and really get to know each aircraft as well as you know the 38 and 51. Fly coops, d/l different missions and or a mission generator...Somehow your seeking out a reduncacy in the game that's not keeping you interested or challenged....

arthursmedley
02-27-2009, 09:02 PM
Originally posted by AllorNothing117:

Also, I'd love to go onlnie but dad won't let me,

Hmmmm....your dads' 'Deskpilot' isn't it?
Tell him its about time he got himself online http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif That'll convince him http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

AllorNothing117
02-28-2009, 08:38 AM
Well I flew the "Hurricane season" campaign. Got to the 5th mission and got sick of the Huricane!!! I'm currently making my own campagin for the "LA7" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif sorry if i caused confusion. I absolutly adore the LA7! What a plane! I also flew the "Bong" campaign for the P-38 but never got round to finishing it... I'm very much enjoying making my own campaign and will stick to both that and the LA7. I will also play some more campaigns that other people have made, Ba5tard5word for example http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

triad773
02-28-2009, 08:47 AM
I had been flying this sim for about 3 years and felt somewhat similar for different reasons. I tried the P-39 for a challenge- dogfight it without spinning out. The P-40 is also a good try against superior marks of Japanese planes (as it was IRL). Then any not-so-good planes to pilot against superior craft.

So many aircraft- so little time.

Best,

Triad

Crash_Moses
02-28-2009, 08:54 AM
Originally posted by p1ngu666:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by I_KG100_Prien:
Ditch the Sissy rides.

Pick up the steeds of the true warrior:

B-25
A-20
P-47 (With Ground Pounding Loadout)
IL-2/IL-10
Pe-2/3
Ju-87
Ju-88
Bf-110
He-111

+1 to that http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
mudmoving is the biggest challenge in il2, not secondary hero dogfighter planes http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

and yes, play online more fun http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

+2

Add the SBD and Val to that list and Zeus-cat's wonderful "Straight Down" campaigns and you can't go wrong.

S!

Skunk_438RCAF
03-02-2009, 02:18 PM
Convince your dad to let both of you join a squadron.

The most fun I've ever had with this sim was flying with other human pilots. Its as much fun and even more fun than flying alone against other human pilots.

toogame
03-02-2009, 05:42 PM
I would suggest you fly planes that are not superior and are hard to fly, if you can rack up kills in them and stay alive then thats an achievement.
Some examples:
Macchi 202 (love the plane hate the guns)
Wildcat (love the plane though zeros will out perform you)
P40's (great plane though not as superior to other)

Another thing is to fly online in servers that are Full Real settings, and limited plane set, this makes a big difference to flying experience and the satisfaction is much much more rewarding

na85
03-02-2009, 07:08 PM
Originally posted by AllorNothing117:
Well I flew the "Hurricane season" campaign. Got to the 5th mission and got sick of the Huricane!!! I'm currently making my own campagin for the "LA7" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif sorry if i caused confusion. I absolutly adore the LA7! What a plane! I also flew the "Bong" campaign for the P-38 but never got round to finishing it... I'm very much enjoying making my own campaign and will stick to both that and the LA7. I will also play some more campaigns that other people have made, Ba5tard5word for example http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Don't limit yourself by sticking to the LA7. The Lavochkin series are probably the easiest aircraft in the game to do well in.

If you can consistently do well in a variety of diverse aircraft like the bf109, the spitfire, the fw190, the p-38, the p-40, the A6M, etc, then and only then will you be a skilled pilot.

Copperhead311th
03-03-2009, 10:13 PM
Originally posted by thefruitbat:
bf 109 f4 on the eastern front, late 1941-1942. If you want good dogfighting thats the place to go offline. In no other plane in any timeframe can i rack up as many kills through dogfighting, You don't have to be stuck on end of the war planes, i don't like late 109's, but in 41 its my top choice, planes vary through the years, its one of the things i like most aboult il2.

fruitbat

Total BS...the F4 Smokes pole. In the right hands the P-40 will spank the F4 in '41 like a new born baby. Proven online and off. seriously. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

AnaK774
03-04-2009, 12:57 AM
Well, lets see, P-40 vs F4

Climb, speed, power to weight with accelration and low speed maneuverability goes to F4, armament, durability and high speed maneuverability for p40.

Could say f4 has decent advantage unless it gets bounced.

DKoor
03-04-2009, 04:03 AM
When a player flies on hard settings server, many things besides pure plane performance plays part in the final battle outcome.
But it is always nice to have a better performing plane.