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View Full Version : So how do you get a MiG off your tail? (109E7)



flyingscampi
12-20-2004, 04:05 PM
Hi
I'm stuck on second mission in the Fall Blau campaign where my squad of 6 109E7's repeatedly get slaughtered by 9 MiG 3's.

Initially the Mig's have an altitude advantage but after the first abortive attempts of following my staffel I decided to sit about 2000m above the action and try a bit of BnZ'ing.

The last straw was when I was in a gentle dive doing about 500kph at 3500m when I saw one attacking off my port rear quarter. I stuck my nose down in a nearly vertical dive until the needle went off the scale and pulled out reasonably level about 500m before anything got ripped off (vibrating badly) then I got shot to pieces by the MiG that had simply followed me down.

I looked at the video and our energy levels at the outset seemed about the same.

I know the MiG is a fast plane but it seems to dive, climb and turn better than the E7 offline.

Is this just AI trickery or am I just doing it wrong?

Help!

mortoma
12-20-2004, 06:06 PM
I'm a big time offline player and it sounds to me like a typical situation of just being plain outnumbered. The Mig-3 has as good of a high speed turn as the E-7 but should not be as good at slow speed, either in turn or in just plain agility. Nor should it be able to out-scissor an E-7. But with that kind of a numerical disadvantage alone, it's not implausible to get that kind of results. Also, the Migs are streamlined and probably did have a fairly decent dive compared to other Soviet planes, such as Laggs and Yaks. Especially since AI controlled 109s just don't take advantage of the little things the E-7 does better.

Also, if you open the .mis file in notepad, you may just find that the Migs are set to a higher level than your AI E-7s are. That makes a huge difference too. If the E-7s are set to novice or average and even half of the Migs are set to ace, you will have big problems. By the way, you didn't mention what model of Mig-3 it is. Any of the later models after the old 1940 Mig-3 are much hotter and can be a bear to fly against, even if AI controlled.

AlGroover
12-21-2004, 06:32 AM
You can adjust a number of things through the FMB. Yes, it may be cheating but you may have to do it to get you moving through the campaign. Also, flight and damage models may have changed since the campaign was built, changing the difficulty of the mission.

F19_Ob
12-21-2004, 07:36 AM
U probably did pretty well....multiple fighters are hard to beat.


The mig3 is a BnZ plane and is infact faster than the 109, especially the later migs like the U variant.
In low speed the mig is on the disadvantage and very much so in scissoring because it becomes very unstable in slow speeds and tend to snap-stall when changing direction rapidly in slow speed.
The main problem u perhaps had was that they were multiple fighters attacking U and thats bad even if they would have been il-2's. The other problem is the migs fastfiring and flat trajectory machineguns since they hardly need any deflection. Although these guns are weak on the early migs they still are capable of damaging and thats is really enough because a damaged 109 becomes a sitting duck.
Sometimes the ai can maneuver better than a real person would and online the mig is really uncomfortable in slow speeds but really good with energy.
The mig3U almost can fly loops around 109's online because of its speed so its not at all a bad fighter although it got bad reputation because it suffered from engine problems a lot in real life (like so many other planes).

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flyingscampi
12-21-2004, 08:09 AM
The mission objective is to knock down 2 bombers from each section.

The 9 MiG's are escorting the bombers and my AI leader intercepts the bombers head-on in a gentle climb whilst the MiG's dive down with a good energy advantage.

This always results in my entire squad being shot down so I guess it's just a poor mission design. In reality the 109's would have kept a wide berth and climbed.

If I don't follow the squad and climb well above the bomber formation I can get one or two with diving passes before I run out of cannon shells but if a MiG gets within a kilometre of me I've had it. Last time I tried I had seven of them shooting me down. (All my squad were gone).

Maybe I'll just start the campaign with instant success enabled http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

flyingscampi
12-21-2004, 08:13 AM
Can someone explain what the Reinforcements comms option does?

As soon as I select it all my squad mates start flying round in circles until they run out of fuel and none of the other German planes come to help.

LilHorse
12-21-2004, 09:22 AM
These are probably all valid points being made above. But you have to remember that there is a lot of "cheat" built into the AI flight models, both friend and foe. This and the "eyes on the back of the empennage", AI can't deflection shoot but has laser head on shots, AI sees you in clouds, etc. turns me off to offline play for anything other than practicing my shooting and bombing.

Otherwise, I agree that low speed manuevering in the Emil will work against MiGs (especially, I think, high scissors) but then that leaves you as dead meat for any of his wingmen. And that points up another failing of friendly AI. They aren't the best wingmen.

VW-IceFire
12-21-2004, 09:58 AM
Mig-3's advantages are good speed, good dive, and good high speed roll and turn. Sucker them into a low speed fight...they will stall, slow down, and generally get bogged down. Oh and their armament generally isn't too good...except the 2xUBS or 2xShVAK versions.