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TeufelHund84
09-30-2006, 01:25 PM
I was just hoping to discuss with some P-40 experten about this bird which seems to have me a little befuddled.

I don't know what the appeal is about the P-40/Curtiss Hawk to me, but there's a strong one. Maybe I have an over idealized version in my head vs. what this bird actually represents, but I know I can't be totally crazy because there's alot of people on these boards that profess a fondness of this classic warbird.

In my first ever venture online last night, I made a go with the P-40 and...well, got completely spanked. It was ugly. Those La7s whooped my @$$. But I expected this. The plane started up at the beginning of the war and the La7 was later on, so fear not! I am not a complete ignoramus (though I may be close).
I know that, IRL at least, the P-40 was considered obsolete when it entered production. Poor ROC, poor top speed, and any other faults. I know it is good in the dive (too bad my virtual redout tolerance is not as good) but where else does this bird excel?

I think I've read that it has a respectable if not good roll rate (I don't know how to perform scissors so this doesn't do me a lot of good yet http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif)

This one has to be a turn fighter right? The poor speed and ROC pretty much squash its ability as an E fighter. Any hints, tips, and tricks? I've even heard that, for reasons unknown to me, the P-40 makes a great starter a/c so that adds to the appeal.

Thanks/danke/spasiba in advance.

Unknown_Target
09-30-2006, 01:38 PM
The P-40 is good at...well, pretty much nothing really. If you fly a P-40, guraunteed there's another aircraft out there who can do something or anything better than you. If you must use the P-40, use suprise diving attacks, and use your slightly higher dive speed/top speed to escape from your opponent (historically that would be the Japanese aircraft - God help you if you go up against a German a/c).

The P-40 does make a good starter aircraft because it's stable while still being unstable enough for you to learn to deal with stalls and the like. With it's relatively low top speed, things come at you slower so you have more time to anticipate them, and with the six .50s, you've got a lot of ammo to practice gunnery skills.

triad773
09-30-2006, 01:42 PM
My P-40 is the E. Later model, better spin-stall characteristics, ok speed. Stick with that and see what you think. Works for me most of the time.

waffen-79
09-30-2006, 01:48 PM
teh P-40M is my prefered model

as for "the appeal", let me tell you this:

The P-40(any model) is a Macho Plane, as simple as that. Flying it online makes me feel powerful

I respect anyone who rides that plane online.

...hell I respect everyone who choses any other plane than spit25 and la7 <==== ok I'm j/k

heywooood
09-30-2006, 01:56 PM
the P40, especially early variant, needs team tactics to be effective - its how they were historically used. In a lone P40 situation - you should fly home...otherwise you will be poppin your 'brelly.

PBNA-Boosher
09-30-2006, 02:24 PM
NEVER TURN IN A P-40!!!!!!!!!

I'll say that again.

NEVER TURN IN A P-40!!!!!!!!!

Let's start out with the simple facts, and what you have right and wrong. First of all, yes, the P-40 is an early-mid war bird and won't have much of a chance dogfighting an La-7. To even get involved in a more than one pass engagement with an La-7 is absolute suicide. I assume you were on a dogfight server? They can be fun, but by no means are they historical and you won't have much success flying the P-40 as you would when put into its proper settings.

Now for the rest.
Anyone who claims that the P-40 was "obsolete" when it entered production is either one of two things: A horrible shot or a very timid pilot. Yes, the P-40 was a bit slower, had poor acceleration, enormous amounts of torque that made take-off a challenge, and constriction in view due to the cockpit struts and bars, but it was one of the most modern planes the US had at the time. The biggest problem with the US air arsenal was that it did not teach pilots to use their planes effectively, especially in combat with superior fighters.

Maneuvers in the P-40 (B/C and E/M)
The P-40 has the advantage of being a very sturdy and easy to manage aircraft. It takes relatively little time to adjust to the cockpit. Only the lack of a fuel gauge limits its effectiveness from there.
Take-off is tricky. Pilots IRL have reported having to stand on the rudder pedals to keep the plane straight on take-off. More often than not, a common problem for the AVG in China during training was that they threw the throttle around, put in way too much torque, and nosed the plane over. On take-off in the P-40, use a 60% throttle setting until your tail comes off the ground, then slowly increase throttle until you're at 95% - 100%. This will allow for a respectable take-off length, but at the same time, minimize the amount of torque you have to deal with in game. Don't forget to lock your tail-wheel either, that is a KEY thing to do in this plane.

Once you have a positive reading on your VSI (vertical speed indicator) pull up your landing gear and stay on the deck. You want your speed to build up. The P-40 is a zoom climber. It is a horrible climber in cruise. With that stated, you'll have your most luck by getting to a speed sufficiently above 300 kph and using that speed as a baseline for your climbs. While it is very possible to climb out at 250kph, the climb will be slow and sluggish. The plane will handle fine, but you're easy pickings for anyone who doesn't like you. Use that baseline speed, 300kph, and climb in a step-wise pattern until you reach your desired altitude.
Let's take our friend the Tomahawk (P-40B/C) up to an altitude of 4,000 meters. (Roughly 12,000 feet.) From here you have a good vantage point of the ground below you. At this point, not in combat, level flight, in cruise mode, your radiator should be full open, you should trim for level flight, and your eyes should be constantly scanning the world around you. Don't make the mistake of not looking directly below OR directly above. Make 90 degree turns frequently to check your six. The P-40 is not a good aircraft to be jumped in, due to your limited options. It is, however the perfect aircraft to bounce someone with.

Notice I said 'bounce,' not "dogfight." There is a HUGE difference. Let's say that you, in your cozy P-40B, spotted a flight of four Zekes patrolling at roughly at 1500 meters. The first thing you should do is slap yourself. Why? Because you're alone. Survivability in the P-40, as with all other fighter aircraft, depend on working as a team to accomplish your goals, especially when fighting against a machine as notorious as the A6M Zero or Messerschmitt 109.
After having slapped yourself for being alone, you now must deal with the situation. I'll go through a short checklist in steps.

1. Doublecheck the position of the enemy. Make sure you have a clear notation on their bearings, heading, and terrain they're over. Close your radiator. Make sure your flaps are up. Make sure your gear is up.

2. Perform a check ABOVE and ALONGSIDE your aircraft, using those 90 degree clearing turns to check your six. I've seen too many pilots go down because they didn't check their six before they attacked.

3. Triplecheck the position of your enemy. Make sure you have a clear notation of their bearings, heading, and the terrain they're over.

4. Attempt to align yourself on their six while staying at your altitude. This will give you the best opportunity to shoot them down. If they've noticed you already, forget this step and go right to step five.

5. After aligning yourself, or if this is impossible because you've been noticed, roll over onto your back, pull prop pitch down to about 60% and throttle to 30% - 50%. Watch your RPM's. Don't let them go too high. Let gravity do the work of gaining the speed for you.

6. Pick the enemy farthest away from the leader as your target. Put your gunsight on him and use a little bit of lead. As you dive with the power settings given above, the engine noise from your aircraft will bee minimal, giving another player much less of a chance to notice you before you bounce them. Provided you are not seen by the other three Zeke pilots, continue on course after your target.

7. Open fire on your target ONLY when they are in your convergence Range. The P-40B/C's convergence should be set below 200 meters. But for something like this you'll want it set at MOST to be 150. The closer you are to your target the more effective your bullets will be. Once you find yourself at that critical point of convergence range, aim with your two nose guns (the .50 calibers on a P-40B/C) at the enemy's wing roots and cockpit. The other four guns (.30 cals) will get random strikes, but your concern should be with those .50's. Those are your heavy hitters.

8. Do your best to concentrate your fire on ONE area of the enemy plane. You could spend all of your ammunition shooting into a 109, but if you do damage all over instead of one spot, it'll never go down. Focus a point for your .50's to hit into.

9. After you've made your pass, regardless of whether the target went down or not, throw in full prop pitch, power, and KEEP DIVING.

DO NOT TURN.

DO NOT TURN.

DO NOT PULL UP.

DO NOT PULL UP.

Continue to dive until you reach the deck and run in the direction of home. It sounds cowardly to some, but it's not. It's survival. Once you're well away and can no longer see the Zekes, good. Use what speed you have left to get back up to altitude and either run for home or stay in the area.
Congratulations, you're not dead.

The P-40, I repeat, is a team airplane. If you're alone you're a dead man unless you play it smart and never attack unless you're on your terms.


Defensive Tactics
In the P-40 you should have these things working for you on Defense:
-TEAM MATES
-ALTITUDE.
-Roll rate
-Rigidity of construction (unless you present the enemy with your engine, but that's a defensive stupidity)

Obviously the most important things are your wingmen and altitude. If you're alone and get bounced in a P-40, you're best off diving for the deck under full power and running your butt home. If you want to deterr quick snapshots at your plane, the best way to do it is through negative G maneuvers, especially against Italian planes, (A main opponent of the P40) as many of them were carborated and couldn't take neg. G maneuvering.

Something that can be used to great effectiveness is the "negative knife." When your opponent is in shooting range and is about to shoot, bank the aircraft 90 degrees as if you were going to do a hard turn, but the instant your opponent starts to follow you into the maneuver, push down on the stick with as much force as the P-40 will allow. Your opponent, who normally would attempt to follow you into the hard turn, thinking you're an easy target, is now forced to make the adjustments necessary. While he tries to do this, pull up and around him. If he is still confused, you'll be able to get a nice shot on his plane. If not, you'll find yourself in a rolling scissors or scissors.
The P-40 doesn't like scissoring. As soon as you have the opportunity, dive out of the way and run for home.
The standard defensive maneuver in the P-40 is the dive. If you can't do this, you cannot fly the P-40. It seems easy, but a controlled, straight trajectory dive that doesn't overload the engine is a very tough thing to do. Set up a target in the FMB, or in the QMB, start your P-40 out up high and take a bomb with you. If you can drop a bomb SOLIDLY and PINPOINT onto one of the Russian village outhouses, you know you've got it down. If you can't, (me included) You've still got work to do.

That's all I have to say for now. I hope it helps some. If you still have questions just say so, I'll do my best to answer them.

carguy_
09-30-2006, 02:32 PM
You ppl simply do not know what a **** plane is.

Ask vvs how they feel about selecting the P40C over Yak1b,LaGGS35 or La5.

On the eastern front,nothing comes close to the versatility,ruggedness and agility this bird presents until `43.

TeufelHund84
09-30-2006, 02:57 PM
Thanks for the input Boosher. I'm off to stink it up in the QMB skies!

horseback
09-30-2006, 03:16 PM
In real life, the P-40 was competitive in top speed, turn, and firepower at medium alts and below with most of its contemporaries (this means up through 1943 in most cases). Added to this was its superior ruggedness and and dive performance.

Subtracting from this was its poor climb and acceleration, and the fact that you needed to pay attention to trim.

Besides flying in pairs at a minimum, successful operators of the type did two things before they got in the combat zone: they got high and fast. If you're above the enemy, and moving fast (like at 90% of your top speed), you don't have to worry as much about outclimbing him or speeding up.

The P-40 handled pretty well at speeds over 250mph, much better than the Zero or Oscar at those speeds, in fact, and generally better than the Bf-109Fs and early Gs met over the Western Desert of N. Africa. At least this is what was reported by USAAF units operating the type there. In general, these groups were more aggressive than the Commonwealth units operating the Warhawk/Kittyhawk, and enjoyed some success before moving up to the P-47.

The 109, however, had a big edge in climb, and was pretty close in the dive. Stay in the horizontal with these whenever possible, and pepper them with your .50s when the chance presents itself; you don't have the instakill (TM) cannon, but you can keep shooting long after the 109 runs out of bullets and has to run for home. Aim for the wingroots and engine. These are the most likely to limit his performance or result in a lucky PK.

Ingame, hitting at convergence is VERY effective(actually over effective, while bursts hitting from 'too short' or 'too long' are apt to do too little damage), but you will get useful hits at 100 to 300m if your convergence is set to 200m in most cases.

In short, keep your speed up, maintain your alt/E advantage, and remember that you have ammo to burn.

cheers

horseback

RCAF_Irish_403
09-30-2006, 04:12 PM
Just finished reading an account from a VVS pilot about the P40...his first impression was "Finally, I have a modern Aircraft!"

Last night on UKDed there was a map pitting E4's/E7's vs P40C's....i got stuck flying the Emils. Their were many good sticks on both sides. The P40's attacked in the same way described by Boosher. Hit and Run followed by a long extension away. The only thing the Emils could do was to try to lure them into a protracted angles fight down low. This didn't happen too often. Take a wild guess which side got their a$$ handed to them http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gif

I don't think i've ever been as happy to see a map change http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/typing.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/crackwhip.gif

tigertalon
09-30-2006, 06:25 PM
One advice, Teufel:

Don't fly P-40 on non historical all vs all servers. Fly it on historical one, in a 1942/43 period. U will soon learn this bird is not COMPLETELY outclassed and there is a small light towards the end of the tunnel for this plane (light of an incoming express train that is http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif)

PBNA-Boosher
09-30-2006, 08:03 PM
Tigertalon's just mad that he keeps getting beat by the superiority of the P-40. Don't listen to him.

VW-IceFire
09-30-2006, 10:02 PM
P-40M is an absolute joy to fly against A6M3 Zeros and Ki-61s. Thats my favourite scenario for this plane.

You can also out turn Bf109s with it.

Its not a total loss.

mortoma1958
09-30-2006, 10:29 PM
Agaist AI P-40 is deadly, against human pilots you'd better know what your doing and have at least one wingman. I fly offline a lot so I can dominate in any plane against any other plane.
The AI even on ace level is ludicrous. I'm still laughing from the time I was in a Beaufighter and was jumped by four so called "ace" Zero 21s on the New Guinea map. I had no problem shooting them all down!!! It was truly funny. It took me half an hour but they all went down and I didn't even get pinged. Had they been humans online, I would have had to run home.

Xiolablu3
09-30-2006, 10:33 PM
I enjoyed our forays with the P40 last night Ice.

She is not a bad bird vs the correct year Japanese planes.

We were fighting 1943 Zeros/Ki43's and Ki61 last night in P40M's (limited number) and P40E's. Its possible to do quite well, you are fastet than Zeros, so you can use her as an energy fighter.

I dont like taking the P40 vs German planes tho, as you dont really have any advantage.


Use her as an energy fighter if you can, just as you would any inferior plane. Try and use height to compensate for her speed/climb deficiency.

Ukdedicated has some good maps with P40s'

TeufelHund84
09-30-2006, 11:32 PM
What are some good servers that you guys can recommend? What version is UKded also? I'm at 4.04m right now and I don't think I'm going to get Pe-2 ever. I'm waiting for BoB instead.

PBNA-Boosher
10-01-2006, 12:00 AM
Winds of War, Warclouds, Zekes vs. Wildcats, all the ones that get talked about here. Pe-2 is running on those though. I'm not sure about 4.04m, but I know that 4.05m has some good guys flying allied who could wingy with you.

HotelBushranger
10-01-2006, 12:15 AM
Boosher's pretty much got it spot on, kudos to him.

However, a very important part to flying a P-40 is discipline. It's oh so tempting to zoom back to an opponent after a dive, but the reality is you CAN'T if you want to live. Resist the temptation and keep diving.

As for La-7's, I was once able to dogfight an La-7 at 100m and was able to claim a draw. Lemme tell you, I was drenched in sweat after that 10 minute fight http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

JtD
10-01-2006, 12:18 AM
Ukded1 is 4.04, UKded2 is 4.05.

Imho, the P-40 is competetive in the PTO up until the Ki-84 appears.
In the ETO the 109F-4/Mc.202 are the last models it can hope to match. After that, you have to be good or lucky to score.

Lordbutter4
10-01-2006, 12:46 AM
The p-40 isnt a bad plane by any means. You really have to know your enemy however. Some of the drawbacks are its very fragile, a single hit can stop the engine. But its not a poor performer by any means.

Early war you have a good speed/dive advantage. This is even more noticable in the pacific front vs zeros. Just dont turn, give a nice shallow dive of 5 or 10 degrees, and let your speed build up. If really in trouble nose down and get about 350-400 mph. A zero will break up around these speeds so they cannot follow.

In latter war you need to exploit its turning ability. FW and 109s and ki-84's will be much faster then you. In this situation you need to almost fly it like you would a spit, and turn.

El Turo
10-01-2006, 01:06 AM
To be fair, if you find yourself in a dogfight server and can engage a mid-to-late war 109 (or 190, sure) in an angles fight, you can win that battle.. but you have to be an accurate shot and close escrow quickly before you run out of E.

With a notch of flaps (or two when you get REAL slow at the top of a yoyo/loop), you can really get the nose of a P40 to come around nicely against those opponents. Enough to suprise some folks who think they've got an easy snack, anyway. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Those centerline 50's are real nice for hammering on people from all kinds of range, especially zoom climbing 109s/190s that give you a sweet shot into their topsides as they zoom.

Xiolablu3
10-01-2006, 10:13 AM
Originally posted by TeufelHund84:
What are some good servers that you guys can recommend? What version is UKded also? I'm at 4.04m right now and I don't think I'm going to get Pe-2 ever. I'm waiting for BoB instead.

You should get Pe2 addon, mate. Its really cheap and I am pretty sure it adds more things than just the Pe2. The P51 feels nicer for a start.

Ukdedicated1 is 4.04, Ukded2 is better in my opinon, becasue it has slightly more realistic settings.

Whatever the settings tho, the maps are amazing and well thought out, encouraging bomber use and teamwork. Its possible to fly settings you dont like just becasue its so much fun.

Give Uk1 a try, if you need harder settings buy the Pe2 addon and then you can fly all the other good servers such as WInds Of War, Warclouds, Ukded2, Histoia, Rnzolis Coop server.

Its definitely worth it for 9.99. Less than a night out..

gregpeters
10-04-2006, 08:00 AM
The P-40 handled pretty well at speeds over 250mph, much better than the Zero or Oscar at those speeds, in fact, and generally better than the Bf-109Fs and early Gs met over the Western Desert of N. Africa. At least this is what was reported by USAAF units operating the type there. In general, these groups were more aggressive than the Commonwealth units operating the Warhawk/Kittyhawk, and enjoyed some success

Hi folks - remembered my password at last!!
regarding above quote: thanks Horseback - good to see someone with a good word for the p40 against 109s. But not only the USAAF "enjoyed some success" against them in N.Africa. Read the book by Aussie pilot Nikki Barr - regarding his p40 exploits in the desert. He had NO QUALMS about taking on 109s (and it's a great book too!). The pilots who flew their p40s well knew they could turn against 109s - and 190s too (later). Of course, they were beaten for speed.

On that matter of top speed - someone else has said this sim doesnt give the p40 it's due. is that true?

regards,
p40gah.

ps thanks to Mr Maddox & team for this fantastic flight sim. Especially love the way it depicts sun & light - and forgotten battles!

zugfuhrer
10-04-2006, 10:13 AM
Don€t make the mistake to compare the computed performance of "aircrafts" in this game with the performance you have read about in books and have seen in movies.

Some stories makes you believe that that it was regular to shoot down five enemy fighters during a mission.

The most common outcome of a mission was that you didn€t see any enemies.

20 hours of flight and 20 minutes of engagement is perhaps more true.

I don€t think that only a handful people on the earth can say things like "The aircraft xxx in this game is too ..."
Accept this game as it is.

Don€t try to make a virtual re-enacting.
If you want to fulfil you dreams about your favourite aircraft as an omnipotent war-machine make your own aircraft in CFS3

WWMaxGunz
10-05-2006, 02:13 AM
It will outturn quite a few much faster planes.

Xiolablu3
10-05-2006, 02:59 AM
Originally posted by gregpeters:
On that matter of top speed - someone else has said this sim doesnt give the p40 it's due. is that true?


You can find someone to say every plane in the sim is porked in some way or another.

Usually people from the same country that the plane comes from, or flies that plane exclusively/most often.

Take what they say with a pinch of salt, and remember teh research that went into the game. Also read this quote :-

' Because several MG employees, including Yuriy, worked in the Sukhoi Design Bureau in near past and even were involved in the developing process of Su-26.'

They also speak to the real pilots of WW2 planes and ride in them themselves when they can.

So who would you belive, 'some guy' who said that 'some plane' wasnt fast enough, or 1C MAddox?

R988z
10-05-2006, 08:34 AM
The P-40 is an excellent gun platform, usually remains steady and smooth so great for deflection shots. Don't discount the frontal attack either, keep your guns to 150m convergence, and dodge around a bit to throw their aim, them cut in and fire at the last moment, you can really rip an enemy to shreds if you get it right, probablt 40% of my P-40 kills come this way. You need to be a good shot though. The bad thing about this is that it doesn't take much at all to stop the engine dead in a frontal attack, so you'll soon get used to gliding impossible distances back to base many of my P-40 landings are also this way http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

If you spend a lot of time playing with the P-40 you can get good at manipulating it in the real slow speed, edge of stall regime, this is good for last chance live and death manouvers when one on one, but if there are other enemies about your probably dead. Like everyone says keep high, if jumped, hit the deck and run, and when I say the deck I mean chopping grass with your prop, against stuff like one-oh-whines and other a/c with poor elevator control at high speed (like J-kites), dive straight down and pull out as late as you dare, do it right and you'll miss the ground by millimetres (use flaps if necessary) and the enemy who will have stupidly followed you will dig himself a nice hole in the ground, done this a few times myself. If the enemy is smart he wont follow you down and will keep his alt and try to jump you later, so stick on the deck to make it hard for him to see you.

Against aircraft that can roll well, you can usually out turn them, against aircraft that turn well, you can out roll them. This gives you some minor options in an emergency. Hiding in clouds is a sneaky way of delaying the inevitable as well.

I find prop pich around 85-95% seems suits P-40 nicely for most modes of flight. She generally handles well enough once you get to grips with her, be wary of wing drop at low speeds though. The earlier models are generally less stable and prone to porpoising or sort of flipping over out of control. I usually prefer P-40M or E with the longer tail and cleaned up aero for this reason.

Generally my preferred method for surviving in a P-40 is to take a bomb, gain alt over friendly territory, go and hit ground target, then look for opportunistic air targets, usually enemy attacking friendly a/c over target area, try and pick one off in a BZ attack then zoom back to alt, try again if possible then get the hell out of there. if you get stuck with a latewar uberfighter on your tail with even a half decent pilot, you may as well bail out while you still have the chance. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif

Pollack2006
10-05-2006, 09:23 AM
Versus the Luftwaffe = Flaps down and turn the opponent inside out (if he's daft enough to try it on).

Versus the IJA/N = Stay fast, don't turn.

PBNA-Boosher
10-05-2006, 09:33 AM
Originally posted by Pollack2006:
Versus the Luftwaffe = Flaps down and turn the opponent inside out (if he's daft enough to try it on).

BAD idea. Turning burns energy, which you need to get out of there. Where there's one Lufty there's usually more, and I, for one, would hate to be low and slow, even if I just got a kill, when there are plenty more Lufties looking for an easy bounce. If you're outnumbered, lower, or at a lower E state (alt and speed) than the enemy, just run. Wait until your team can cover your climbs before you start attacking, because after your initial dive on the Lufties, if you're alone, you're as dead as a deer in the headlights.

FatBoyHK
10-05-2006, 11:43 AM
P40 is weak? try using it against Zekes of the same year!!! it will be a pure joy. All you need is either find yourself a wingman or build yourself some alt before engagment. In the old days I can rack up 1000 points within an hour in Zeke vs Wildcat server, and I am an average pilot.... so everyone can do it, if you do it correctly.

leeG727
10-05-2006, 05:11 PM
Here are a couple P-40 articles.

THE CURTISS P-40 WARHAWK By Patrick Masell:
http://www.chuckhawks.com/p40.htm

THE P-40 WARHAWK AND THE A6M ZERO By Patrick Masell:
http://www.chuckhawks.com/p-40_vs_zero.htm

Siwarrior
10-05-2006, 07:49 PM
Originally posted by PBNA-Boosher:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pollack2006:
Versus the Luftwaffe = Flaps down and turn the opponent inside out (if he's daft enough to try it on).

BAD idea. Turning burns energy, which you need to get out of there. Where there's one Lufty there's usually more, and I, for one, would hate to be low and slow, even if I just got a kill, when there are plenty more Lufties looking for an easy bounce. If you're outnumbered, lower, or at a lower E state (alt and speed) than the enemy, just run. Wait until your team can cover your climbs before you start attacking, because after your initial dive on the Lufties, if you're alone, you're as dead as a deer in the headlights. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

yes true, lufties can also build up E quicker i find i use the '40 as a BNZ......

Grey_Mouser67
10-05-2006, 08:52 PM
Originally posted by PBNA-Boosher:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pollack2006:
Versus the Luftwaffe = Flaps down and turn the opponent inside out (if he's daft enough to try it on).

BAD idea. Turning burns energy, which you need to get out of there. Where there's one Lufty there's usually more, and I, for one, would hate to be low and slow, even if I just got a kill, when there are plenty more Lufties looking for an easy bounce. If you're outnumbered, lower, or at a lower E state (alt and speed) than the enemy, just run. Wait until your team can cover your climbs before you start attacking, because after your initial dive on the Lufties, if you're alone, you're as dead as a deer in the headlights. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Boosher is right in that you can make a kill, but will be killed most of the time on the better servers due to comms and teamwork.

I have found the P-40 to be a superior aircraft in the PTO settings if you fly a B&Z style and in the MTO settings, the B/C will put it to the 109E below 4500 meters or so...they are similar in speed and the Warhawk can out turn it, but not outclimb it.

The E/M model can also turn with an F and I believe the Warhawk to be superior to the F-2 below that 4500 meters in many catagories except rate of climb, but the F-4 will kill it if he manages his energy.

Its not that you can't turn with a Warhawk, but rather the question is whether you should turn. When fighting with 6-gun fighters, spray em and leave em....they just don't dogfight well as a general rule.

HayateAce
10-05-2006, 09:01 PM
Hmm, put me in a P40 against the same year 109 and the RunBlowNine is going down in flames. Period.

Jetbuff
10-05-2006, 10:08 PM
Ah the F-4 and the P-40E. Two of the best matched planes in the game and both top the list of my favourite aircraft of all time right behind the 190A6. I've had some of my most memorable engagements in one or the other. The F-4 is a lot easier to fly though due to better stability at low speeds (love those slats) but flying the P-40 will grow hair on your back.

Speaking of which, the P-40's instability can sometimes be put to good use. Look up the 'flick-turn' for more info. (more commonly associated with the mid-engined P-39) Note that I'm not advising you to specifically seek out turning engagements, but it's one more trick to have in the bag for when things go south.

gregpeters
10-06-2006, 03:24 PM
20 hours of flight and 20 minutes of engagement is perhaps more true.

Hi zugfuhrer

good point you make above. In fact, when my old man was flying P40s, he found it was more like 200 hrs of flight and 20 minutes of engagement!
But - the Luftwaffe was well beaten by then.

He did love flying the P40 though. As Jetbuff says, the flick turn was one of its good tricks. A deliberate high-speed stall that you could control - if skilled enough - to come out of going in whatever direction you chose! Very hard for your opponent to follow.

By contrast, the peculiar stalling characteristics of the P39 were much disliked by RAF pilots (by reputation mainly -as few of them ever flew one!). At the top of a climb, they could spontaneously flop into an end-over-end "spin" - more like a "tumble" - due to the lack of weight in the nose. The spinning problems of the P39 are also hinted at in a recent novel by Andrei Makine "The Earth and Sky of Jacques Dorme". This book is a very good read -but warning: more romance than aircraft.
Back to the P40: Though it was obsolete by 44, some pilots remember it most fondly. The old man's squadron got P51's in June 44. He said that this new plane was a revelation in modernity. But, when in sentimental mood, he preferred to reminisce about the P40. When you got to know it, it flew like like it was part of your own body. You had to manhandle the controls a bit, but if you knew it well, you could fly it without inhibition. It couldnt hurt you, and you couldnt hurt it. You didnt have enough power to rip the wings off - for example. So, in a life or death emergency, you werent inhibited by worrying about any structural limits -unless you went over 480mph in the dive. But even if you did that - the wings wouldnt fall off - you would just break the constant speed unit in the prop!

general_kalle
10-07-2006, 03:56 AM
cos of the amount of planes i dont relly get the feeling with one.
i enjoy shifting(i dont play online)

but one day i had a fight over ladoga lake
8 p40E vs 8 finnish me109

well i kicked 4 of them out of the sky and returned home without a scratch

ps im not sure of the number of planes on each team but if sure it was the same number on both teams ( 8vs8 12vs12 or something)

well it proves that its a good plane
not the best on any area but good allround