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View Full Version : Just curious: British bombers..



73GIAP_Milan
09-18-2005, 07:59 AM
I don't know if this has been asked many times before and NO this is not a fishing trip, but why does this game feature quite alot of US Bombers like the B-17 and B-24
But almost totally lacks the british legendairy bombers like the Lancaster, Stirling, Halifax?

Is this because of the fact that most of these bombers operated at night?
Or because the 1C Team had no one to model these bombers/decided that they would not "fit" to the game?

anyway, just asking out of curiousity http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Low_Flyer_MkII
09-18-2005, 08:04 AM
It's probably a night thing.
Here's hoping their predecessors make it into BoB, and that leads on to bigger and better things.

danjama
09-18-2005, 08:07 AM
i think its because they never operated in the eastern front, the B17 did, as for the 24, its just nice to have, TBH i dont really know for certain, we already have loads and loads of planes we were never meant to have so im happy.

Low_Flyer_MkII
09-18-2005, 08:12 AM
Well.... at the risk of all that it entails...we do have a Berlin map, Bomber Command certainly overflew that. And Lancasters did make shuttle runs to Russia. Daylight raid by RAF heavies were not unknown.

Kuna15
09-18-2005, 08:12 AM
Somehow I am not so eager to have them in FB as it is now.

But I do certainly hope to meet most of them in BoB instead. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Taylortony
09-18-2005, 08:14 AM
To be honest I think its a marketing thing, you are pandering to your greatest market...... IE The Colonies..

Low_Flyer_MkII
09-18-2005, 08:17 AM
But there were Aussies in Bomber Command http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

MrBlueSky1960
09-18-2005, 08:52 AM
I think it's more a marketing thing, as Taylortony remarked... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Plus, look at the amount of time to get a flyable 'Heavy Bomber' into the sim http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

So, if I wanted to maximise my sale's I would chuck in aload of Yank stuff to keep the children quite, http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif and the rest would put up with a few smaller 'European' concessions... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif Or go hang theirselves http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

WOLFMondo
09-18-2005, 08:54 AM
I don't think it was marketing or aiming the product at particular consumers at all.

No third party modeller probably decided to make a British bomber. The Mossies and Tempest are only coming because a third party modeller decided to make it which is the same story for a number of 'key' aircraft.

p1ngu666
09-18-2005, 09:02 AM
a guy called ed (i think) started the lanc, but stopped todo other aircraft for pf (dont know what ones)

and its mainly cos no one finished one that we not gettin em http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

73GIAP_Milan
09-18-2005, 09:05 AM
Well, like i said in the first post, this is far from a fishtrip, so i am not even asking to get them ingame, although having them as non-flyable would be fun already.

It just puzzled me a bit, as most of the aircraft in this sim played a very vital role in the war and it would be -bluntly said - odd to not have these planes in http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif - just judged by their "status"

But if no one even has made a model for them, all we could do is await BoB

Anyway, thanks for the clarification !

p1ngu666
09-18-2005, 09:09 AM
yep, we are missing pretty much the entire bomber command types. we got blehiem, but ...

b24 was used, but mostly overseas. b24s dropped supplies at rooftop height at warsaw or wherever there was a uprising and stalin ordered the russian army to stop..

Dunkelgrun
09-18-2005, 10:44 AM
Originally posted by p1ngu666:
a guy called ed (i think) started the lanc, but stopped todo other aircraft for pf (dont know what ones)

and its mainly cos no one finished one that we not gettin em http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Ed Walters did indeed start the Lanc for T4T, but AFAIK Oleg wasn't really too enthused about including it in FB so it went to FS9. Shoot me down if I'm wrong, Ed http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif!

The British heavies wouldn't be a lot of good on the size of maps we have in FB anyway - look how much people moan about 10 minutes over the Pacific. Imagine what an outcry there would be for six- to ten-hour trips over Europe in the dark! Plus the radar would really need to be modelled for both sides as well; Gee, H2S, SN2; the Himmelbett control system, plus window etc etc. It's a shame that T4T folded, but maybe Oleg will model the night-bombing campaign as one of the follow-ons to BoB.

Now the Hampden, that's a different story as that flew in Russia.

Cheers!

Arm_slinger
09-18-2005, 02:40 PM
What Dunkel said http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


Maybe one day we'll see a night bomber sim

Secudus2004
09-18-2005, 03:02 PM
Here is something that did€nt see the light of day€¦ http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif It was planned for inclusion into FB, but just did not get any further than you see here. And no, I can€t tell you who the modeller was, so don€t ask. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v187/Secudus/Render01_040903.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v187/Secudus/Render02_040903.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v187/Secudus/Render03_040903.jpg

Regards

Secudus

Low_Flyer_MkII
09-18-2005, 03:18 PM
Blimey! Who made that? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

major_setback
09-18-2005, 03:28 PM
Lancasters, Wellingtons etc. have no British base to take off from. This might be one reason. Shame though. Still the pictures of a Wellington that have been posted in 'development updates' look promising.

http://www.il2sturmovik.com/forgotten_battles/devupdate/2212/wellington-nose.jpg

http://www.il2sturmovik.com/forgotten_battles/devupdate/2212/wellington-flaps.jpg

http://www.il2sturmovik.com/forgotten_battles/devupdate/2212/wellington-retract-turret.jpg

From:
http://www.il2sturmovik.com/forgotten_battles/fb_development_040604.php

major setback

FritzGryphon
09-18-2005, 03:31 PM
I guess since most of the heavies came in PF, there wasn't a big need for British ones.

I'm sure they served somewhere in the pacific, just not to the extent of, say, B29s or B24s.

BoB will save british bombers, be sure http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

73GIAP_Milan
09-18-2005, 04:09 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif Oooh those look good, Major Setback!

Well, if this is true, what you say, FritzGryphon, then i will have my hopes up for BoB http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif
As far as i know, the Lancasters flew into russia sometimes, but the Dam Busters squad was send to the pacific to bomb japan. But once they arrived, the US dropped their nukes on japan and the war ended.

p1ngu666
09-18-2005, 04:45 PM
lancs where kept for bombing the germans, harris loved his lancs..

wellington was in burma and other places, halifax went to desert, probably elsewhere, plus did atlantic sea stuff (so did the whimpy)

Xiolablu3
09-19-2005, 06:31 AM
Wellington was more an early war plane.

The answer to your question is because this game has no 'British basis' It has IL2, Forgotten Battles and Pacific Fighters.

There is no British campaign/front officially in the game.

We have to wait for BOB for that http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

WOLFMondo
09-19-2005, 06:35 AM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Wellington was more an early war plane.


It is but it was used throughout the war and was probably the most important aircraft in bomber command till mid 1943.

p1ngu666
09-19-2005, 06:57 AM
had a longer postwar career than lanc, curiously enuff
i think, anyways

WOLFMondo
09-19-2005, 07:07 AM
I'm not sure. Many lancasters where converted for civilian use though and used throughout the world after the war. The Lancaster lived on in the Shackleton though and that was in use until the 90's along with its Griffons.

John_Stag
09-19-2005, 08:13 AM
But the Hampden did see service with the Russians as a torpedo bomber.

Pity it never made it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Beaufort-RAF
09-19-2005, 02:56 PM
RAF heavies would be a waste of time with the maps & game engine.

However a flyable Blenheim would have been a great addition.

It's in the game because of Finnish service so obviously it would be be used on the Gulf of Finland map.

For the RAF we could have flown it on the Ardennes, Normandy & desert maps.

Flyable it would have had a lot use.

One that's particularly frustrating is the B25J.

The RAF flew the J as the Mitchell III but unlike the Americans didn't use it for strafing.

With the blister gun pods the AI dives down and shoots targets ruining RAF missions. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

If we had had a sub variant without the pods we would have had a RAF bomber for Normandy & the Ardennes.

However salvation could be at hand. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

The A20C Boston was on Olegs list of possible new flyables......

http://www.raf.mod.uk/downloads/gallery/bostons640.bmp

Ankanor
09-19-2005, 03:03 PM
I hope we have something new, I'm a fighter pilot only, but one target more never hurts http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Edit: WOW 1000 posts!!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Arm_slinger
09-19-2005, 03:04 PM
The allied heavies are a waste of time- they can't be used properly. The maps are too small to get them to their operating hights, and air starts just take the immersion of flying a big bomber

I'd much rater seem Blenheims, Hampdens, A-26's B-26's, He-129's etc

73GIAP_Milan
09-19-2005, 03:07 PM
Originally posted by Arm_slinger:
The allied heavies are a waste of time- they can't be used properly. The maps are too small to get them to their operating hights, and air starts just take the immersion of flying a big bomber

I'd much rater seem Blenheims, Hampdens, A-26's B-26's, He-129's etc

I don't see that as a valid argument, as the allied heavies got in game, the russian heavies aswell - but those have been from the start.
I don't see why because of that the british bombers should be left out.
Others had much more valid arguments to that, if you read back the replies http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Aaron_GT
09-19-2005, 03:59 PM
However a flyable Blenheim would have been a great addition.

It's in the game because of Finnish service so obviously it would be be used on the Gulf of Finland map.

For the RAF we could have flown it on the Ardennes, Normandy & desert maps.

The Blenheim was also used in the Far East. It would be nice to have a flyable IV with the rear-facing chin gun.

Aaron_GT
09-19-2005, 04:01 PM
The A20C Boston was on Olegs list of possible new flyables......

It would be nice to get a USAAF and RAF armament fitment (i.e. two versions). An RAF intruder version would be nice too.

Beaufort-RAF
09-19-2005, 04:36 PM
I don't see that as a valid argument, as the allied heavies got in game, the russian heavies aswell - but those have been from the start.
I don't see why because of that the british bombers should be left out.


A twin engined bomber such as the Blenheim would be far more useful for the maps and game engine.

I've been complaining about the lack of RAF bombers for ages but a 4 engined heavy would be little more than a novelty.


The Blenheim was also used in the Far East.

Absolutley, and despite no Burma it could be flown historically on the Singapore/Malaya map.


It would be nice to get a USAAF and RAF armament fitment (i.e. two versions).

That would be nice although beggars can't be choosers and I'd settle for American machine guns. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

The thing that would concern me is if it was programmed like the A20G and the AI used the fixed guns like a fighter bomber.

That would badly compromise the recreation of RAF bomber ops.

p1ngu666
09-19-2005, 05:15 PM
even glassnose bostons had fixed guns, atleast in some versions..

Beaufort-RAF
09-19-2005, 06:19 PM
Originally posted by p1ngu666:
even glassnose bostons had fixed guns, atleast in some versions..

Yes, the A20C had two guns in side blisters and these were used on RAF aircraft.

http://www.raf.mod.uk/dday/images/cn5618.jpg

I well remember reading about a RAF pilot shooting up a German going to the loo on a Dutch island on the way back from a raid. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

The point is though the RAF used the A20C as a bomber not for ground attack.

In game the B25J uses it's fixed guns to straf ground target.

Now the B25C also has a fixed gun in the nose BUT the AI still operates like a pure bomber.

The A20G is programmed like the B25J and I would like the A20C to be programmed like the B25C.

IAFS_Painter
09-20-2005, 06:58 AM
Realistically, good modellers are thin on the ground, we just don't have enough of them over here ... 3,000 for the software to produce the goods isn't easy to find.

the_soupdragon
09-20-2005, 07:32 AM
Then maybe its time Oleg allowed Gmax models to be used?

SD

Hrannar
09-20-2005, 02:38 PM
Originally posted by the_soupdragon:
Then maybe its time Oleg allowed Gmax models to be used?

SD

That's not gonna happen, Gmax is free for the public because game developers have to pay for a licence if they want to allow players to use Gmax as modding tool for their games. And thats a lot of rubles for Oleg & co.

MB_Avro_UK
09-20-2005, 05:37 PM
A humbling thought...

55% of RAF bomber crews were killed in WW2. Worse than infanry in WW1. And no Campaign medal for survivors.

I could go on but I have said enough.

Regards,
MB_Avro

Low_Flyer_MkII
09-20-2005, 05:48 PM
'Among every 100 RAF Bomber Command aircrew in the course
of the war, 51 died on operations, 9 were lost in crashes
in England, 3 seriously injured, 12 were taken prisoner, 1
was shot down and avoided capture, and just 24 completed a
tour of operations.'

Armageddon - Max Hastings. Macmillan Publishing, 2004.

p1ngu666
09-20-2005, 05:51 PM
indeed, lots of battle of britain stuff, but how many know of the battle of berlin?

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

SnapdLikeAMutha
09-22-2005, 07:11 PM
RAF FAC had some Hudsons, Blenheims, a few RAAF Catalinas.

Actually a WW2 Coastal Command-ish sim might be fun.

Sunderlands, Liberators, Catalinas, FW200s etc soaring over the oceans for 12 hours at a time, hunting enemy subs and ships...okay maybe it wouldn't be much fun http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Baltimores/Marylands would be great for MTO