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MOhz
06-11-2005, 09:04 AM
I thought it was some über Japanese wonder weapon answer plane, but as far as I have seen, it is not fast nor does it seem to climb very well... Please explain to me what the ki100 is all about. THanks!

FatBoyHK
06-11-2005, 09:13 AM
lol, the first time I see a Ki100 online, I shot it down.

Enough kidding http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I think Ki84 is a better plane, but I am no expert.

MOhz
06-11-2005, 09:27 AM
Nice job, lol!

LEBillfish
06-11-2005, 09:41 AM
The Japanese HA-40 then subsequent HA-140 used on the Ki-61 series of planes was not only a difficult engine to manufacture, but had many many problems with the fuel system, filters, etc.. It has even been quoted as saying it had built in leaks.

It was not uncommon for a flight of say 6 Ki-61 to roll out preparing for a mission, and have 1 or 2 simply sieze up on the runway.

There are photographs of Ki-61 airframes literally stored in the forest waiting for engines next to the plant...Engines that never came. More so, ground crews simply were not used to working with them, so it was also common as U.S. toops over-ran bases to find fully intact damged motor planes just rolled off to the side.

However, the airframe was outstanding, one point I think neet is that in contrast to the BF 109-E series, the Ki-61 did not use connecting rods to mount the motor but a "Uni-body construction where the side cowling was actually stamped and supported it.

So the army fed up with lack of planes on Oct. 24th, 1944 ORDERED Kawasaki to stop messing with the liquid cooled engine and adopt the Mitsubishi HA-112 II radial engine to the plane instead...

Hence if you look at the plane, it looks like they took a Ki-61-II Kai, and chopped off the front engine mount area of the plane, and simply mounted the engine like was done in FW190-A5's, and made a cowling to fit it.

They tried to mount it like a FW190-a5 was...However, where in the FW had been designed as a radial engined plane from the start due to lack of engines, the Ki-100 simply adopted it to a inline engine airframe...The fusalage only slightly altered to accomodate it. That is why the engine cowling is so much larger then the fusalage.

Easiest way to describe it is imagine if you had a BUNCH of BF109 planes with no engines, so addapted FW190 engines to them from the firewall forward.

WHy it was nicknamed in subsequent years the "Desperation Fighter".

MOhz
06-11-2005, 10:00 AM
Thanks LEBf! That is also what I have come to conclude... So why, was it designated as a good fighter? Was it under realistic circumstances because it does not come anywhere close to ki84!

Huckebein_UK
06-11-2005, 10:23 AM
It performed just as well as, or even slightly better than, the KI 61, which was a good fighter aircraft. Then added to that it was far more reliable. Reliability was a very important factor in real life, but isn't modelled in FB. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Aero_Shodanjo
06-11-2005, 10:27 AM
Originally posted by MOhz:
Thanks LEBf! That is also what I have come to conclude... So why, was it designated as a good fighter? Was it under realistic circumstances because it does not come anywhere close to ki84!

Apart from its slower speed, the Ki-100 was quite an improvemet over its older brother, the Ki-61. AFAIK, the climb rate and maneuverability can surpass or atleast match most (if not all) allied warplanes fielded in the late years of the war. Further improvement was in the engine durability departement.

So yes, it's speed is slower compared to most allied fighters, the Ki-84, even its predecessor, Ki-61. But take it for a ride and conduct a dogfight with it (I guess low to mid level dogfight is where the Ki-100 can hold its own against most opponent).

Maybe you'll see the reason(s) why an IJA ace (sorry forgot his name) considered Ki-100 as the best IJA fighter in WWII.

LEBillfish
06-11-2005, 10:29 AM
Well for one it did not have the drag of the belly radiator....However, more so it ended up weighing much less then the Ki-61-II...Roughly 320kg. So it climbed faster and was found to be more manueverable at higher altitudes where the fight now was (remember at this point it's killing B29's that matters).

Unfortunately it did lose some tail "efficiency" to quote a book here due to the radial blocking some of the smooth air flow to the back surfaces.....However that mattered little and was overcome.

What you must remember is it did one thing....It got more planes in service, that's all. Production was being smashed by constant raids, and attrition was taking its toll....Literally, they were sending green pilots up and they were getting shot down...So a new stratagy came into play....

<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">Taiatari or Shinten Seiku-Tai </span>
(Body crashing/deliberate ramming or Shuddering Sky)

As said they were losing pilots and planes per mission......So the solution was simple, remove the guns to reduce weight further (and guns and ammo IS heavy)...Give them a phosphorous "air bomb" to drop in the formation to hopefully get a few...then ram them. If lucky, you bail out and get another plane...If really lucky you limp home.....Most simply died, however they in trying to shoot down the bombers were just getting killed.

Also, don't be so sure of reports you read...In the heat of battle Ki-61 were even mistaken for Vals.....So often what was thought to be a Ki-100 was actually a Ki-84 and visa versa...There were also a number of other odd limited production get by planes some of which had outstanding performance....yet think of it this way....

If you are going to ram, probably die, do you creep up struggling to catch your prey, or do yo get high, and crank it up to 110% WEP power and charge in hard and fast?......There may be your performance besides the fact the Ki-61 was said to just barely be out-turned by the Ki-43...So here was a plane that being lighter could turn even better then the Ki-61, so Ki-43 turning quality, with close to the same speed and power as a Ki-61, and none of the servicability issues.

VW-IceFire
06-11-2005, 12:31 PM
Originally posted by MOhz:
I thought it was some über Japanese wonder weapon answer plane, but as far as I have seen, it is not fast nor does it seem to climb very well... Please explain to me what the ki100 is all about. THanks!
Yes this is typical. When we first heard about the Ki-100 being included in the game several noted people started complaining that the Japanese were getting "another superplane" and that Americans were being screwed over without their super F4U-4 and P-47N.

But none of them knew anything about this plane.

The Ki-100 is a Ki-61 with a different engine. Near the end of the war, Ki-61-KAI's with more powerful engines were being prepapred. Although a few were finished, the factory was bombed and thus they had 200 airframes and no engines. A solution was worked up by putting a Japanese built radial engine in the plane. The results were good. A very reliable fighter with excellent agility surpassing that of the Ki-61.

At low altitudes, it was decently fast as well. Its overall performance in terms of speed and climb were similar to the Ki-61 and consequently not much better than say a late model P-40. Although considered a great match against aircraft like the P-51 and Hellcat, the Ki-100 is just too slow to properly compete. I suspect the Japanese turn fighter doctrine was showing here once again.

Pros
- Reliable/less vulnerable engine (radial instead of inline)
- Slightly more manueverable than predecessor

Cons
- Too slow against the competition
- Performance rapidly declines above 10,000 feet (special Ki-100-IIs were designed for high altitude interception but were never built)

bazzaah2
06-11-2005, 01:21 PM
the only thing I have read about the Ki 100, beyond what others have written above, is that in one encounter an unspecified number of Ki100s shot down 14 hellcats without loss and that 99 of them were built. Neither statement is substantiated and may be apocryphal, adding to the mystique of a Japanese super-fighter.

Zyzbot
06-11-2005, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by bazzaah2:
the only thing I have read about the Ki 100, beyond what others have written above, is that in one encounter an unspecified number of Ki100s shot down 14 hellcats without loss and that 99 of them were built. Neither statement is substantiated and may be apocryphal, adding to the mystique of a Japanese super-fighter.


According to Henry Sakaida these are the real circumstances regarding the oft posted "Ki-100 vs. Hellcat Incident":


€œOn 25 July Maj. Kobayashi disobeyed orders by taking off to intercept marauding Hellcats over Yokaichi airfield, having been instructed to stay on the ground to await incoming bombers. He and his men were by this late stage in the war flying the superlative Kawasaki Ki-100 Goshikisen (Type 5 Fighter), and in the dogfight that took place at hangar-top height, the 244th Sentai pilots reportedly shot down ten of the VF-31 Hellcats that had sortied over Japan from the carrier USS Belleau Wood - the real score was just two for two on both sides.€



source: B-29 Hunters of the JAAF by Henry Sakaida.

goshikisen
06-11-2005, 01:58 PM
An excellent dogfighter but no speed demon. I think the Japanese were just happy to have a reliable fighter... the 14 Hellcat story made the Ki-100 into an uber fighter that it never was.

Willey
06-11-2005, 02:57 PM
It's slower than the Ki-61-II, yes, but it's still faster than the Ki-61-Is we have. It's a bit like a 109G-2/6 in FM terms, but more TnB than BnZ.

nakamura_kenji
06-11-2005, 04:07 PM
it maybe because i twidle prop pitch but game i found

ki-61-ko 270mph(on speed bar) 3500feet 110% throttle, trim for level flight

ki-100-ko 290mph(on speed bar) 3500feet 110% throttle + methanol water, trim for level flight

i find climb both similar though ki-100 turn better bit and roll slightly better that hei, otsu and match ko though never anywhere near ki-43 turn. guns also nice acurate. battle damage not i know as yet be hit ^_^. forward visibilty apear be better on ki-100 though both are meant have roughly same cockpit

LEXX_Luthor
06-11-2005, 05:06 PM
Ya, it should not be the Uber plane the community Panicked over when we saw "100" in the screenshots and noticed its a bigger number than 38, 47, 51, and even 84 ...(and asking Oleg for F~100 to "balance" Ki~100 on teh Dogfighter servers)

tigertalon
06-11-2005, 05:21 PM
Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
Ya, it should not be the Uber plane the community Panicked over when we saw "100" in the screenshots and noticed its a bigger number than 38, 47, 51, and even 84 ...

How about 190? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Hastatus
06-11-2005, 05:54 PM
Very few regard the Ki-100 as Japans best fighter of WW2. That being said it had some fine qualities and was a fine fighter in the right hands, as was the Ki-61. Its certainly not a F4U-4, 109K, 190D-9 or Tempest.

...the Ki-84 Hayate or the N1K-2 Shinden are the two top contenders, for performance, armament and handling qualities.

LEXX_Luthor
06-11-2005, 06:28 PM
tt::
How about 190? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
The general webboard opinion at the time was that Japanese planes would fly against USA planes, and maybe a Spit or two, so they didn't pay attention to 190 or 109 being bigger than 100.

Hastus::
Very few regard the Ki-100 as Japans best fighter of WW2.
Flight simmers at this webboard are, for the most part, not among the Very Few. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif They totally Panicked about the Ki~100, and wanted P~47N and Bearcat to compete with it Online (I exaggerated about the F~100, but still http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif).

The only greater webboard Panic we have seen was when UBI releaced screenshots of TB~3/I~16 Zvenyo combination, and our LuftWhiners thought it was some 1946 Russian thing, they had never seen anything like it before.

p1ngu666
06-11-2005, 07:54 PM
quick question, whats with the german name/number scheme?

VW-IceFire
06-11-2005, 08:33 PM
Originally posted by bazzaah2:
the only thing I have read about the Ki 100, beyond what others have written above, is that in one encounter an unspecified number of Ki100s shot down 14 hellcats without loss and that 99 of them were built. Neither statement is substantiated and may be apocryphal, adding to the mystique of a Japanese super-fighter.
Actually, there was never any time where 14 Hellcats were shot down by the Ki-100. That was propoganda. Nonetheless, it was a decent fighter, it just never so dominated the American opposition. The Japanese airforce was pretty much just hanging onto what it had. Numbers produced were about 230 in two batches. The first batch is what we have which were Ki-61s converted to a radial engine and thus the Ki-100. There was a second batch (Ki-100-Ib) which had a bubble canopy but otherwise the same performance.

The gem of the Ki-100 is that it was a fighter produced in a very short time that ended up being a relative operational success. Easy to fly, easy to fight in, but not quite upto the task. It wasn't plauged by problems like the Ki-61 and the Ki-84 were.

NorrisMcWhirter
06-12-2005, 12:53 PM
What is it? It's an uncompetitive late war axis aircraft to offset the 'uber inclusions' of Go229, Ki84 etc

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Ta,
Norris

bazzaah2
06-12-2005, 03:31 PM
Actually, there was never any time where 14 Hellcats were shot down by the Ki-100. That was propoganda. Nonetheless, it was a decent fighter, it just never so dominated the American opposition. The Japanese airforce was pretty much just hanging onto what it had. Numbers produced were about 230 in two batches. The first batch is what we have which were Ki-61s converted to a radial engine and thus the Ki-100. There was a second batch (Ki-100-Ib) which had a bubble canopy but otherwise the same performance.

The gem of the Ki-100 is that it was a fighter produced in a very short time that ended up being a relative operational success. Easy to fly, easy to fight in, but not quite upto the task. It wasn't plauged by problems like the Ki-61 and the Ki-84 were.[/QUOTE]

Good to get that cleared up! I'd wondered about that stuff for a while but the Hellcat story just didn't strike me as likely.

MOhz
06-13-2005, 06:12 AM
Thank you everyone for the wonderful replies! I think the ki100 has just become my favorite Japanese plane... I already loved the ki61, so I guess on later war servers it will be the ki100, as soon as I get back I will get to learning it! Thanks

Doug_Thompson
06-16-2005, 02:36 PM
Originally posted by LEBillfish:
....However, more so it ended up weighing much less then the Ki-61-II...Roughly 320kg. So it climbed faster and was found to be more manueverable at higher altitudes where the fight now was (remember at this point it's killing B29's that matters).

... What you must remember is it did one thing....It got more planes in service, that's all. Production was being smashed by constant raids, and attrition was taking its toll.


The other posts on this thread are good, but that's the real bottom line. Ki-61 II's barely ever hit their performance peak, and sometimes couldn't get off the runway at all. Engine manufacturing quality was bad and maintenance was poor.

Even the much-loved Ki-84 had serious problems. Later in the war, a low-pressure fuel system eased those difficulties some, but reliability was still a problem. A pilot who took off in a thoroughbred might be driving a plowhorse as soon as some engine part shed or a hose blew.

Keep in mind that by mid-1945, the Japanese were supplementing their avgas with home-brewed gunk refined from pine roots. It was pitiful, really. Surrender would have been less of a dishonor than sending untrained pilots up in junk, while the helpless civilian population was bombed.

The Ki-100 was a consistent performer. It has a relatively simple, rugged, reliable engine on a proven airframe of sound design. It was like a catus, able to thrive where everything else died.

Short version: It worked. Also, I think the numbers produced given here are too low. As I recall, there there 160 Ki-61 II airframes on hand when production began. Total production of all models still barely exceeded 300, though.

I suspect it was included in the patch because it and the Ki-84 are the only Japanese planes that can give the late war Americans a good matchup. I like the plane. It's easy to handle and has enough firepower and ammo to take on American planes. Yes, even a Hellcat will pull away in a dive, but the Ki-100 is still one of the few Japanese plane in the same league as the spawn of Pratt and Whitney, and then only at medium altitude and below.