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fabianfred
08-29-2007, 08:45 PM
Co-op's ....being short for co-operatives.....spoken as Co-op....not coops....chickens live in them!

I have always been more interested in missions involving bombers and ground attack....mainly because I suck at dogfighting....but also because of the whole big 'ego' thing which goes with the fighter jockey business....."I'm better than you.....this plane is better than that.....my dad's bigger than yours....etc."

Anyway i enjoy the co-ops on Hyperlobby.
Some are little more than an excuse for a dogfight.....but one thing which gets me annoyed is when someone gets bawled at for 'kill stealing'

In my opinion ...there is no such thing in a co-op.....those on the same side are supposed to be working together... to destroy the enemy....not busy trying to chalk up personal scores... If a player on my side is dogfighting with an enemy plane and there are no other enemy around to occupy me ...i feel it right to get on his six....and if he has to break off because of the maneouvering of his opponent....and I have the chance to take the kill......what is wrong with that....there could be many more enemy about to arrive on the scene...so one less to worry about should be the aim.

I bet in the real wartime there was no thought about 'kill stealing'....just working together to save each others ***...

fabianfred
08-29-2007, 08:45 PM
Co-op's ....being short for co-operatives.....spoken as Co-op....not coops....chickens live in them!

I have always been more interested in missions involving bombers and ground attack....mainly because I suck at dogfighting....but also because of the whole big 'ego' thing which goes with the fighter jockey business....."I'm better than you.....this plane is better than that.....my dad's bigger than yours....etc."

Anyway i enjoy the co-ops on Hyperlobby.
Some are little more than an excuse for a dogfight.....but one thing which gets me annoyed is when someone gets bawled at for 'kill stealing'

In my opinion ...there is no such thing in a co-op.....those on the same side are supposed to be working together... to destroy the enemy....not busy trying to chalk up personal scores... If a player on my side is dogfighting with an enemy plane and there are no other enemy around to occupy me ...i feel it right to get on his six....and if he has to break off because of the maneouvering of his opponent....and I have the chance to take the kill......what is wrong with that....there could be many more enemy about to arrive on the scene...so one less to worry about should be the aim.

I bet in the real wartime there was no thought about 'kill stealing'....just working together to save each others ***...

bmoffa
08-29-2007, 08:59 PM
I agree on the stealing stuff. I see guys writing paragraphs back and forth in chat over someone stealing someone else's kill. The objective is to destroy the other team's airplanes. It is a war sim after all. If you have an oportunity to get a clean shot, take it (IMHO). Sholder shooting is a different issue to me because its dangerous in "real life" thus it shouldn't be done in the sim.

There are some servers where stealing is not a crime (RCAF_FB for one). There are also server that allow shooting airplanes on the ground. I try to play them when I can. However I do play by the rules of whatever server I'm on.

Enforcer572005
08-29-2007, 09:05 PM
Ive seen this to. I agree completely with what you say. This is supposed to be a simulation of combat, and in real combat, the objective is to kill the enemy.

I've shared kills online many times, once last sunday flying with the DangerDogz against another outfit. One of my comrades shot up a Heinkel pretty badly but had to break off. this guy had two torps slung and was heading for some of our ships, smoking and leaving a trail of parts, but still in the fight. I closed and blew it apart with 20mm, getting credit in the sim, but sharing the kill in reality with the other pilot. He didn't mind at all btw, because we were on a misn to destroy the enemy before he could destroy us.

No such thing as overkill in real combat, and this is what we are supposedly simulating.

Worf101
08-29-2007, 09:49 PM
Well most if not all 99th Coops have a ground element in it, or I'd be SOL as my dogfightin' sucks crackers as well. You're welcome to come on anytime we'll even share comms if you're of a mind.

Da Worfster

LEBillfish
08-29-2007, 11:10 PM
Fred's dead.....anytime he died not at my hands someone carped (bottom fed/stole) the kill from me.

He's my victim dang it!...Go find your own! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Widowmaker214
08-30-2007, 01:07 AM
Fabian.. yeah. Thats the way it should be. But there are a lot of little boys that fly for points. And I can see how some might get mad. They are in a dog fight server, working hard and shelling out a good bit of ammo, and then somebody swoops in and finishes him off. That can be irritating. Which is one reason I don't bother much with those servers. There will always be lots of egos in that type of environment. Its a first person shooter type mentality for certain individuals. And usually thats not very fun to play with.
I fly with my friends and such on our own server where we all are in TS together and flying with the same goals in mind.
And there are some good "mission" based servers on HL as well. But they still kinda end up like dogfight arenas a lot.

We dogfight for skill practice, but we spend most of our time flying Co-op. We run a rnzoli powered DCG dynamic campaign server.

The nice thing about the rnzoli stats.. they are not individually tallied on the server stats page. The human pilot scores are added together after a mission, and then evenly distributed. If you and I flew together. I scored 200 points and you scored 300. We would get credited with 250 points each on the server stat page.
And thats how we like to fly. Its a common goal, not a scoring contest.
We even use hound dog(or some use bulldog). Which is a directive call. If another guy has a better angle, closure rate, better shot, he's free to call off the guy in front of him. Of course if you do that, you better take care of business. But thats how we fly. Its about getting the job done. Not who put the last bullet into him.
We even share kills in our main squadron sierra hotel. If you get a guy smoking or leaking, you get 1/2 a kill. If you finish off a plane that was already smoking or leaking, you get 1/2 a kill.

In reality there is no such thing as kill stealing. Its called sharing.

Its fun to get credit, is fun to score points...
but for us, its about finishing the mission and everyone making it home in one piece.

- Widowmaker

214th.com/sheep

cmirko
08-30-2007, 03:43 AM
be sure to check 214th server as you should check 102nd_COOP_ded

on 102nd_COOP_ded you will find 200+ hand made coops, all are historic in nature and there is a lot of fast paced action http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif - mission time is 30 mins so they rotate quickly or you can choose next mission when you want http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

rnzoli
08-30-2007, 05:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by fabianfred:
I bet in the real wartime there was no thought about 'kill stealing'....just working together to save each others ***... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You would lose that bet http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I have read about situations when pilots were worried about also whose score will be credited with a kill. But you may be correct on the point that it was always a minor worry compared to the very big worry about winning or losing the war. Despite some tensions, all real pilots understood that no high scorre is worth losing a friend, or losing the war. With no real friends, and no real war, some people just get locked on scores too much.

The shared stats system is a fairly good component on the co-op servers. Initially I was worried about big aces will complain about this, but in fact, many good pilots seem to like the sharing system too, as it takes away the frustration of protecting your kills etc. With a shared system, it no longer matters, who puts the last bullet in, so everyone can concentrate on getting the maximum out of his team, not just his own score. (And also, there is a bonus/penalty system for losing/winning mission objectives, if any, and also for saving/losing friendly lives in the combat.)

BrotherVoodoo
08-30-2007, 12:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">59 Hide Post
I agree on the stealing stuff. I see guys writing paragraphs back and forth in chat over someone stealing someone else's kill. The objective is to destroy the other team's airplanes. It is a war sim after all. If you have an oportunity to get a clean shot, take it (IMHO). Sholder shooting is a different issue to me because its dangerous in "real life" thus it shouldn't be done in the sim.

There are some servers where stealing </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Kill stealing/sharing I don't have a huge problem with in coops. The problem I do have is a friendly shooting my tail out trying to "help" me. Been shot down a few times like that http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif If any noobs out there see a friendly right on the six of a smoking bogie, please respect the fact that your team mate in front of you has the lead and you should be protecting his six, not destroying it.

Worf101
08-30-2007, 12:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BrotherVoodoo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">59 Hide Post
I agree on the stealing stuff. I see guys writing paragraphs back and forth in chat over someone stealing someone else's kill. The objective is to destroy the other team's airplanes. It is a war sim after all. If you have an oportunity to get a clean shot, take it (IMHO). Sholder shooting is a different issue to me because its dangerous in "real life" thus it shouldn't be done in the sim.

There are some servers where stealing </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Kill stealing/sharing I don't have a huge problem with in coops. The problem I do have is a friendly shooting my tail out trying to "help" me. Been shot down a few times like that http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif If any noobs out there see a friendly right on the six of a smoking bogie, please respect the fact that your team mate in front of you has the lead and you should be protecting his six, not destroying it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
WhazzaMatta there Rock??? Don't you like your RedTail nice and crispy? LOL... Does suck, don't it. Since you went to the "Dark Side" of the force and started flying fighters, pheh, you get whatcha deserve.

Da Worfster..

PS THANKS for shootin' me down last night ya bastiche!!!!

Xiolablu3
08-30-2007, 12:45 PM
I totally disagree about the 'kill stealing' argument.

If there is one of your team on the tail of an enemy, doing an excellent job in taking him down, then for Gods sake, cover him from above and from the bounce!

Dont barge in like a ****** and make his life harder.

Its the difference between good teamwork and lame, selfish, greeedy arcade game attitudes.

I can spot a bad/new pilot a mile away from how he reacts to a freindly in a good position behind an enemy.

rr9
08-30-2007, 01:57 PM
It would be nice to see different options to how pilot scores is calculated in BoB. This shared score for all team members has already proved to work well, so I think it would be used in many mission oriented servers, COOP or dogfight.

Bearcat99
08-30-2007, 02:04 PM
I often find myself wishing someone would steal the bandit on my six... I dont have a problem with it... unless it is just blatant.. sometimes things happen.. someone thinks you're off whn you are still on etc... but when I am close in and working and it is obvious I hate it when someone con es in and shoots over my shoulder.

Xiolablu3
08-30-2007, 02:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
I often find myself wishing someone would steal the bandit on my six... I dont have a problem with it... unless it is just blatant.. sometimes things happen.. someone thinks you're off whn you are still on etc... but when I am close in and working and it is obvious I hate it when someone con es in and shoots over my shoulder. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Rgr that. If I see a friendly in a good position behind an enemy, you can almost garuntee thta the enemy plane is calling for help and that help for him will be incoming.

I always stay around 1000m higher and keep an eye on the fight, watching for incoming enemy planes who are coming to help their teamate.

There is absolutely NO point in barging into the fight, unless you are selfishly trying to get the points rather than help your teamate.

The amount of times I have seen 3 planes fighting over one kill and either two of them collide and taking out all three, or an enemy dives in behind and gets easy hits on all of them.

I just shake my head in disbelief at the 'keystone kops-ness' of it all and wish I had this song... :-

http://www.switchpod.com/f28911.html?puser=none

...to play on the server at that moment.

foxfire1941
08-30-2007, 02:21 PM
In our squad we use TS for comms and mostly fly coops. Each squad member is asked to call out his target like; "Bauer on Nancy" (Hurricane -N) then his wingman covers him while he saddles up on the cons six. This helps in the confusion that develops in dogfights. And this prevents most kill stealing or friendly fire accidents.

If we use AI on our team, we give them wingman duties and tell them to just cover us.

f.ip2
08-30-2007, 06:02 PM
I got team killed by the same idiot who was crying over kill stealing.

one server does not allow taking out smoking planes.

Hello? when they made it to escape why not finish the game?


The same guy who team killed me for a kill I lol stole from him because one plane just popped up in front of me also shot me down while I was taking off.


Sadly he was also in a clan ...

fabianfred
08-30-2007, 08:40 PM
I'm reffering only to Co-ops here...what people get up to in DF servers is of no interest to me

and to make it official....Billfish is the only one allowed to kill me when we are in the same mission....(she caught me looking in her cockpit once..........neekid as a jay-bird!!!)

and she doesn't like me calling her KillBill on-line

f.ip2
08-31-2007, 05:21 PM
fabianfred

and i was adding to the discussion.

or do i need to say ... and that is why i like coops more because it has more team play?

i thought this is common sense.