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Nicholaiovitch
03-31-2009, 04:36 PM
In creating a static picture of Hurricane IIb’s awaiting a scramble call, I modified a skin to reflect “gun tape” over the wing mounted MGs as was used during the BOB to enable armourers to see whether a returning a/c needed re-arming.

This first picture shows the standard skin with barrels visible:-
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn134/Nicholaiovitch/IL-2/Used_guns.jpg
The second picture shows a “modified” skin with gun tape applied:-
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn134/Nicholaiovitch/IL-2/Not_fired.jpg
This poses some fundamental questions with possibly enormous implications to the IL2 “Universe”: for without doubt, there will be a small increase in performance by the “orifice closure” of the 8 x .303 openings in this case:-

- Simple mathematics (3.142x0.303x8) demonstrates that having the eight guns uncovered is like flying with a 7.6 inch plate held at right angles to the airflow and since drag increases as the “square” of speed, this will have an impact on maximum speed particularly in a dive after firing the first burst. This ignores the thickness of the covered barrel and any space around it. Therefore, IRL with gun tape applied and prior to the first burst, there will be a small but significant performance enhancement! In IL2 since the tape will remain intact, this is then a permanent advantage?
- It could also be stated that differences in the “drawing” of radiator cooling grills on higher quality skins will also produce changes in frontal area and thus performance.

Since the increase in performance is difficult to quantify in actual flight, I have resorted to the well attributed aerodynamic means of measurement known as “The Ygla Selggib” method. (Possibly of Russian origin).
This begs the question as to whether this report, its consequences and the future modifications of skins, with their authors, should appear “On the Other Side!”?
I have published this report “here (http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn134/Nicholaiovitch/IL-2/Ygla_Selggib_Report.jpg)” and those wishing to interpret the results may view it and draw their own conclusions.

Whatever your beliefs and whatever your preferences (4.08 / 4.09 / Mods),
thank you Oleg, Happy Easter to you all, happy flying and may Biggles go with you.

Nicholaiovitch http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Nicholaiovitch
03-31-2009, 04:36 PM
In creating a static picture of Hurricane IIb’s awaiting a scramble call, I modified a skin to reflect “gun tape” over the wing mounted MGs as was used during the BOB to enable armourers to see whether a returning a/c needed re-arming.

This first picture shows the standard skin with barrels visible:-
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn134/Nicholaiovitch/IL-2/Used_guns.jpg
The second picture shows a “modified” skin with gun tape applied:-
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn134/Nicholaiovitch/IL-2/Not_fired.jpg
This poses some fundamental questions with possibly enormous implications to the IL2 “Universe”: for without doubt, there will be a small increase in performance by the “orifice closure” of the 8 x .303 openings in this case:-

- Simple mathematics (3.142x0.303x8) demonstrates that having the eight guns uncovered is like flying with a 7.6 inch plate held at right angles to the airflow and since drag increases as the “square” of speed, this will have an impact on maximum speed particularly in a dive after firing the first burst. This ignores the thickness of the covered barrel and any space around it. Therefore, IRL with gun tape applied and prior to the first burst, there will be a small but significant performance enhancement! In IL2 since the tape will remain intact, this is then a permanent advantage?
- It could also be stated that differences in the “drawing” of radiator cooling grills on higher quality skins will also produce changes in frontal area and thus performance.

Since the increase in performance is difficult to quantify in actual flight, I have resorted to the well attributed aerodynamic means of measurement known as “The Ygla Selggib” method. (Possibly of Russian origin).
This begs the question as to whether this report, its consequences and the future modifications of skins, with their authors, should appear “On the Other Side!”?
I have published this report “here (http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn134/Nicholaiovitch/IL-2/Ygla_Selggib_Report.jpg)” and those wishing to interpret the results may view it and draw their own conclusions.

Whatever your beliefs and whatever your preferences (4.08 / 4.09 / Mods),
thank you Oleg, Happy Easter to you all, happy flying and may Biggles go with you.

Nicholaiovitch http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Urufu_Shinjiro
03-31-2009, 04:42 PM
Must be April 1st where you are...lol.

danjama
03-31-2009, 04:46 PM
I dont get it

WTE_Galway
03-31-2009, 04:48 PM
close examination of teh standard skin will reveal its actually unarmed with fake gun ports painted on the tape.

Waldo.Pepper
03-31-2009, 05:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">used during the BOB to enable armorers to see whether a returning a/c needed re-arming. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This was not the purpose of the tape. The convenience of armorers was not the issue.

"Wing armament, in fighter aircraft of all nations, usually gave rise to two major problems: the positioning of the ammunition (and its feed to the gun) and the cold condensation of high-altitude flight. This was particularly troublesome when aircraft climbed through cloud to heights where the condensation froze. These problems had not been solved by 1939, because-in peacetime the RAF seldom did much flying in bad weather. The first winter of war was severe enough to make the freezing Brownings a major problem. As an emergency measure, oil diluted with paraffin was applied to the guns, to cure the problem of dry cold. However, it gave the armourers a great deal of work, for it was ineffective as a rust-preventative.
The problem of wet cold - encountered in cloud - was solved, up to the moment of the first shot, by sealing over the gun muzzles with stretched pieces of fabric. As longer-term solution, engine heat was fed to the guns."

Page 102-3 Fighter by L Deighton.

Tab_Flettner
03-31-2009, 05:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> This “Universe” will be a small increase in performance by the “orifice”.

- Simple.

- It could also be stated that skins will also produce changes in frontal area and thus performance.

Since flight, I have resorted to mean.

Oleg, Happy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly.

WTE_Galway
03-31-2009, 10:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:

The problem of wet cold - encountered in cloud - was solved, up to the moment of the first shot, by sealing over the gun muzzles with stretched pieces of fabric. As longer-term solution, engine heat was fed to the guns."

Page 102-3 Fighter by L Deighton. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y101/clannagh/guns.jpg

Nicholaiovitch
04-01-2009, 02:50 AM
Excellent information about the cold guns and tape....but I keep getting this message with Windows XP:-
Click below
"Cold guns" (http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn134/Nicholaiovitch/IL-2/Off_topic.jpg)

Nicholaiovitch http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif