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View Full Version : Dynamic Campaign, What the ?!



FatBoyHK
11-16-2004, 10:02 AM
Just started an US Navy career, played through the Coral Sea and now in Midway. It is quite fun I must say....It is not uncommon to have a furball with 40+ fighters, dozens of Zekes and Wildcats twist&turn around my cockpit....what else I can ask for??

But really, the answer is a big YES.... there is no way to win a scrammble mission, once you took off, 30+ Zekes and Vals are right above your head, ready to blow you and your carrier away...and the next mission, bomber escort, it seem to be the time to get some revenge, but hey, only 8 Wildcats and 8 SBD?

OK, I fight hard to send our bomber to the target waypoint...and then, no emeny is there?? Oh my, what are great picnic, and we are going home....

and the next mission, it is the same picnic, and the next, it is AI's turn, 40+ bombers, I have nothing to do but to empty my ammo and then pray...

I have an USMC campaign too, but I can't get through mission two.... scrammble, 30+ bombers, 10+ Zekes, I tried my best, BnZ those Vals one by one with, at one point, 8 Zekes on my tail.... and all my squadmates are already on the beach... I got 5 before I lost control, hit the silk, but I can't get the "mission complete" message...

to conclude, I have some suggestions:

1. Less Scrammble, more CAP. We don't sit there and wait for the bombers, right? There must be someone flying CAP around the task force... even AOTP have this kind of mission...

2. Bigger and more accruate attack mission. It is very sad to see my attack force with just 8 bombers, especially after I saw how much planes my emeny sent out to hit me... and pls, let them find their target, for the god's sake!... it is really an important issue.

3. I don't mind having some mission with no chance to win if it is an accruate reflection of the war in that period... but pls get me a way to advance to the next mission...

Chuck_Older
11-16-2004, 10:17 AM
How many planes dhould go out on a mission?

What is the 'historically correct' number of aircraft to send?

All 75 or so aircraft on the carrier? If you can fit 16 airplanes on the deck for launch, you send 16

I'm not saying you're 100% wrong, but remember that this isn't the ETO, where 16 P-51s and 2 spares would fly a mission together, and then escort a combat box of bombers

On your point #3, you have chosen the wrong option under 'difficulty', under "no instant success"

Lt.Davis
11-16-2004, 10:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FatBoyHK:
Just started an US Navy career, played through the Coral Sea and now in Midway. It is quite fun I must say....It is not uncommon to have a furball with 40+ fighters, dozens of Zekes and Wildcats twist&turn around my cockpit....what else I can ask for??

But really, the answer is a big YES.... there is no way to win a scrammble mission, once you took off, 30+ Zekes and Vals are right above your head, ready to blow you and your carrier away...and the next mission, bomber escort, it seem to be the time to get some revenge, but hey, only 8 Wildcats and 8 SBD?

OK, I fight hard to send our bomber to the target waypoint...and then, no emeny is there?? Oh my, what are great picnic, and we are going home....

and the next mission, it is the same picnic, and the next, it is AI's turn, 40+ bombers, I have nothing to do but to empty my ammo and then pray...

I have an USMC campaign too, but I can't get through mission two.... scrammble, 30+ bombers, 10+ Zekes, I tried my best, BnZ those Vals one by one with, at one point, 8 Zekes on my tail.... and all my squadmates are already on the beach... I got 5 before I lost control, hit the silk, but I can't get the "mission complete" message...

to conclude, I have some suggestions:

1. Less Scrammble, more CAP. We don't sit there and wait for the bombers, right? There must be someone flying CAP around the task force... even AOTP have this kind of mission...

2. Bigger and more accruate attack mission. It is very sad to see my attack force with just 8 bombers, especially after I saw how much planes my emeny sent out to hit me... and pls, let them find their target, for the god's sake!... it is really an important issue.

3. I don't mind having some mission with no chance to win if it is an accruate reflection of the war in that period... but pls get me a way to advance to the next mission... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

few more problem i need to sound out here seem your topic are suitable..

1. A-20 don't have bombsight, and my AI leader drop the bomb at 2k feet.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/354.gif

2. The Dynamic campaign always like to let bomber bomb the moving target. It's more comment sence that to bomb factory, hanger or fuel depot rather than flying 30 minutes to bomb a column of vehicles...

VF51_Flatspin
11-16-2004, 10:36 AM
In my USN SBD career, I rarely find the enemy ships at the end of the waypoint, I end up flying two 10 mile circles at the end of the line and usually find them. Unfortunately, I'm usually the only one doing that, my AI FL has already taken the flight home. A case for choosing the highest rank at the beginning of the career I guess...but I do get a warm fuzzy when I get promoted.

Something I've noticed also that kinda bugs me is on recon missions. I take a bomb, so does my wingman. If we find an enemy ship, we attack it. On every occasion so far (3 times) I've dropped my 1600 lb egg square on the deck of the carrier without so much as a scratch. Do the same thing in a Naval Attack mission and the first bomb shows damage. Irritating.

FatBoyHK
11-16-2004, 10:38 AM
With all respect, I don't agree with you.

1. In my understanding in WWII PTO planes are send in waves...You send dive bombers first, and then tropedo bomber, and finally the escort. Every wave have a deck-full of planes, I assume it is 16, and then it is not rare to see a attack force of 48 planes.... and then there should be more then one carrier in a task force. If DGEN can't simulate multiple waves, just put me on the last wave, with all the bombers already in the air.

2. I don't consider decrease in the difficulty setting a solution to the problem.

But at least (I assume) you agree with my point 1 and part of point 2...

FatBoyHK
11-16-2004, 10:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lt.Davis:
1. A-20 don't have bombsight, and my AI leader drop the bomb at 2k feet.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/354.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have the same problem, the solution: edit the mission file by myself.... edit the waypoint from 5000M to 500M. Sometimes I need to change the weapons too (from "default" to "2x250").

cueceleches
11-16-2004, 10:46 AM
I´m actually into three differenet campaigns:
1- RN with Hellcat and I think it is Tarawa or some other island.
No complains at all. A variety of missions: CAP, CAS, Escort...
I think AI is not that bad. Whenever my squad starts an attack on the Japs, they try to fight as near as possible to the island, as if knowing that AAA is deadly accurate!

2- USMC with a P40 at Midway. Mostly CAP missions, most of the time outnumbered, but I get good use of my AI squadmates. Whenever I get in sight of the enemy, usually a bunch of dive bombers and a fighter escort, I order the squadron to attack first the escorts, and they seem to be good at it. Meanwhile, I and my wingman take care of the bombers, usually with a devastating effect. I almost reminds me of the Flying Tigers in China! Astonishing!

3- Japanese Navy, in a Zero. Pearl Harbour campaign. Just one complai, and that´s for the loooong way we must fly in order to get in touch with the enemy, but I guess that´s historically accurate. As someone said, it is not the ETO. I´ve also found the Wildcats rather hard to shoot down. Tehy seem to be armor plated everywhere!!

Well, as you can see, I enjoy a lot those dynamic campaigns, and I really don´t consider them that buggish.

FatBoyHK
11-16-2004, 10:50 AM
I enjoy them too, but I must say there are some annoying and frusating bugs need to be sorted out

Chuck_Older
11-16-2004, 11:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FatBoyHK:
With all respect, I don't agree with you.

1. In my understanding in WWII PTO planes are send in waves...You send dive bombers first, and then tropedo bomber, and finally the escort. Every wave have a deck-full of planes, I assume it is 16, and then it is not rare to see a attack force of 48 planes.... and then there should be more then one carrier in a task force. If DGEN can't simulate multiple waves, just put me on the last wave, with all the bombers already in the air.

2. I don't consider decrease in the difficulty setting a solution to the problem.

But at least (I assume) you agree with my point 1 and part of point 2... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

is this in reply to me?

In my Offline campaign, 8 F4Us escort 8 TBFs, and a wave of TBFs has proceeded us. Sure they get sent in waves, that was my point

I am not talking about difficult settings as an increase or decrease in the skill it takes. There is an option that makes you have to succesfully complete every mission.

FatBoyHK
11-16-2004, 01:19 PM
But the "waves" got too seperated, and it become two individual "attack" without linkage.... I want to see my attack force just as big and as organized as my AI emeny did, just for the sake of immerson, and fun... Seriously I don't think it is too much to ask for.

and you mean I shouldn't choose the "full-real" setting for my campaign?

But thats ok, I see no point to argue, I just want to summarize the problem I experienced and hope someone can solve it eventually.

Chuck_Older
11-16-2004, 04:53 PM
No no no...you're misunderstanding me on the "no instant success" thing

What's more realistic? Flying the same mission over and over again, until you "pass" the mission, or playing it, trying, and you can fail, and then go on to the next mission?

Well, obviously, failure as an option is more real. Anyone who really failed could never get the opportunity to relive that moment until they get it right

In the difficulty settings, under "no instant success", it doesn't mean that you're flying experience is more "real" if you choose the option to re-fly the mission until you pass. It only influences campaigns, and really shouldn't be under "difficulty" if you ask me, it should be a campaign option

If you are being forced to replay any mission you fail in a campaign, that means that if you want to end that foolishness, flip the "no instant success" toggle the other way. I forget which settings do what, it's a totally confusing term for that option.

If you want "Full real" and you interpret that as "all switches are on", well that's up to you. But if you are reflying the same mission again and again and again until you pass it, choose the other "no instant success" setting, and that horse hockey stops

About the waves, I see other waves in my USMC campaign all the time. As a matter of fact, I curse them, because often that four plane flight of Avengers has no escort and I have to save their bacon, too. Plus I hear, "#5, bandits on your six!" And it refers to the other d@mn flight! It must vary from campaign to campaign

FatBoyHK
11-16-2004, 10:05 PM
I think I haven't misunderstand you, but really I don't like that. I understand there is actually no different in term of gameplay and challenge between "full-switch" and "full-switch-minus-no-instant-success", but as long as it is inside the difficulty option, i take that as part of the requirement to be "realistic".... It is quite stubborn, but it is one of the way people playing game.

and that mean I need to resatrt the campaign...

about the "wave", you mentioned another annoying issue that I forgot to do so. The coordination of attack group is way to weak, and this harm the gameplay as well as the immersion.

ArielSharon1978
11-16-2004, 10:08 PM
What was the number of allied and Jap planes in the skies during midway? Wasn't there like 7 carriers total worth of planes in the skies?

Latico
11-17-2004, 12:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ArielSharon1978:
What was the number of allied and Jap planes in the skies during midway? Wasn't there like 7 carriers total worth of planes in the skies? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not really. Not all of the planes were airborne at the same time. Both the IJN fleet and USN fleet had constant CAP patroling their respective areas. But, the strike forces were a different story. Most of the IJN strike force was either hitting Midway or back on the carrier being re-armed and re-fueled. The latter was going on when USN strike forces arrived from Enterprise and Hornet. Zeke CAP couldn't stave off the DB attacks that made several direct hits among the Japanese planes that were setting on the decks of at least 2 of the IJ carriers, fully fueled and with bombs all over the place.

Of he 3 US carriers, only the Yorktown CV-5 came under attack by IJ stike forces. Yorktown was trying to refuel some planes for Cap when the IJ force was picked up on radar about 50 miles out. The CAP was launched (some with very little fuel) and the decks were cleared. Yorktowns strike force was out looking for the enemy fleets at the time.

I don't think the IJ fleets had radar at Midway.

BTW, Midway had planes out searching for the IJ carrier feet while CAp was rotating and bombers stoodby ready to go when ever word came down that the enemy fleets had been located. The Japanese didn't have the eliment of surprise they thought they would, as they did when they attacked Pearl Harbor.

Give it some time. After the patch comes out and some of the users that have extensive knowledge of the airwar in the PTO start working with the FMB, I think we'll see some awesome campaigns come out.

Hendley
11-17-2004, 02:09 AM
I'm not too far along in any of my campaigns, but they're pretty fun. Beaufighter on New Guinea is a slightly repetitive series of ground pounds, but I like that so no probs. The Val, now I'm at Wake, is pretty engaging.

But has anyone actually completed the first Rufe mission of the first campaign? 4 Rufes vs. 20 or so Wildcats? Neither me nor my shotai-mates can survive that one... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

SeaFireLIV
11-17-2004, 04:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
No no no...you're misunderstanding me on the "no instant success" thing

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I`m in London with little time, but I have to speak up for Chuck older here.
FatBoyHK, I don`t know why you refuse to listen to him. He`s trying to help. You should be flying with `No instant success` to OFF!

This way if you fail a mission you are still able to continue as long as you return to base or bail out ALIVE. If you die or are captured you will STILL FAIL THE MISSION!

It`s actually MORE REALISTIC! Listen to the man!

FatBoyHK
11-17-2004, 10:00 AM
Stay claim SeaFire, I am not going to argue with anyone here, I just come and speak out my observation and suggestion, there is no right or wrong...

Actually I have done what Chuck suggested, but I think it is not the best solution.... anyway it seem to be the only way under current limitation...

and you see, this is not the focus of my post, instead they should be the scrammable mission setting and the size of the attack force...