PDA

View Full Version : What on earth is up with the FWs????



Mike8686
10-31-2004, 03:55 AM
They feel a lot nicer, is it just me or is something different(for the better) about them? Especially the Dora! Wow, I dont know if its conserving energy better or something but its a monster, ESPECIALLY with E advantage (even more than b4)

Gotta try the TA now http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

O, and the reduced muzzle flash makes such a difference! I can aim so much better now, its a real boon for high speed passes especially

Tully__
10-31-2004, 04:14 AM
All these pacific theatre planes and you can still fly Luftwaffe http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Wow, what a great game!!!!!


http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Mike8686
10-31-2004, 04:19 AM
Tru dat http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
Zeros ROCK! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

F0_Dark_P
10-31-2004, 04:25 AM
The Luftwaffe the only way to fly

ps: and the Swedish Airforcehttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

KGr.HH-Sunburst
10-31-2004, 04:42 AM
Nothing will NEVER ever replace my Dora
Luftwaffe will never die http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

the allieds are in for a nasty surprise if they meet a FW190 in combat now http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Marek_Steele
10-31-2004, 04:45 AM
I could swear there's also different with the k4's handling too, it seems to turn much better at some speeds, but maybe that's me.
And for still flying LW's, blowing corsairs has been quite fun lately http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif.
I'm not remotely an expert player, but there are a lot of newcomers to this sim mostly american (given the theme), for whom the first choice online are corsairs.
If their low speed fm wasn't (at least given the weight of that thing!) so forgiving these players might employ better E tactics.

Fehler
10-31-2004, 05:03 AM
I think it has a great deal to do with a softening of the global stall characteristics. I would bet this needed to happen to allow carrier landings. We shall see how long it lasts.

bweiss
10-31-2004, 06:00 AM
Ami's for Folke Wulf; there is no substitute! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

jurinko
10-31-2004, 07:15 AM
Dora seems to have better zoomclimb (and Oleg confirmed its acceleration was improved) but still the whole 190 family turns like cr*p. Great for those who want to have challenge..

Diablo310th
10-31-2004, 07:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KGr.HH-Sunburst:
Nothing will NEVER ever replace my Dora
Luftwaffe will never die http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

the allieds are in for a nasty surprise if they meet a FW190 in combat now http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Sunburst...it isn't jsut the Dora. Watch out for my Jug too. She zoom climbs like a bat out of hades and those 8 .50's hit like a ton of bricks now. All of the planes I ahve flown now seem to fly alot better actually. I'm looking forward to battling the LW in the new planes.

DangerForward
10-31-2004, 07:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fehler:
I think it has a great deal to do with a softening of the global stall characteristics. I would bet this needed to happen to allow carrier landings. We shall see how long it lasts. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd be surprised if they had to change stall just to do the carrier landings, since for landings the flaps and gear are down. In this case a plane's stall behavior is pretty different from the clean behavior. My guess is it's a change in energy retention, but the accelerated stall seems much more forgiving now. The result is many of the planes can turn much tighter. Just my two cents...

10-31-2004, 08:30 AM
Ehh..Dora lovers.. It's not a glory to attack from above. Every fighter has advantage when it flies higher.
And the second thing: Don't you all feel a bit deceived with the softened stall characteristics? Now they are less realistic.

Yellonet
10-31-2004, 10:17 AM
Well I guess the old über-crates have to get more übery to match the new american über-crates http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Carnage2681
10-31-2004, 11:05 AM
I also think that the FW turns too bad.

In a lot of Books they say that the Fw´s are a real shock for the RAF.

But i had the feeling that the Me262 in PF is better, not slowing down as fast as in FB

JaBo_HH-BlackSheep
10-31-2004, 12:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Diablo310th:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KGr.HH-Sunburst:
Nothing will NEVER ever replace my Dora
Luftwaffe will never die http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

the allieds are in for a nasty surprise if they meet a FW190 in combat now http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Sunburst...it isn't jsut the Dora. Watch out for my Jug too. She zoom climbs like a bat out of hades and those 8 .50's hit like a ton of bricks now. All of the planes I ahve flown now seem to fly alot better actually. I'm looking forward to battling the LW in the new planes. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Befor i allow you to shoot at my wingleader i'll give you a taste of some 20mm ;-)

no seriously, i think the Flight-Modell-engine was reworked to allow carrier landings and stuff. As i heared none of the FB-Planes that weren't in PF got reworked (at least this seems to make sense), so i think it hast to do with some changes in the engine :-)

k5054
10-31-2004, 01:00 PM
I think there's something about energy retention that has improved, or at least increased, whether accurate or not. The other day I shot down 2 zekes in the pearl harbor P-40 mission after the usual one hit took my engine out. Perhaps this is a little too good. Maybe the infinite looping some have seen is related to energy retention, remodelling of kinetic energy somehow?
It would be real nice if someone who still has 2.04 without PF did a comparison with 190 and the jug zooming. I didn't think to backup AEP 2.04 myself...

JG7_Rall
10-31-2004, 01:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aniol_zaglady:
Ehh..Dora lovers.. It's not a glory to attack from above. Every fighter has advantage when it flies higher.
And the second thing: Don't you all feel a bit deceived with the softened stall characteristics? Now they are less realistic. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So you're saying to fly level with all the uber tuners and fight that way? Every other friggin uber plane in this game has an advantage when it comes to turning as well. So the advantage is either pure turning ability or an altitude advantadge. Who are you to say which one is more "glorious"?

Mike8686
10-31-2004, 01:54 PM
No Glory? I think Anton and Dora pilots just tend to fly smarter, minimizing the opponents chances of fighting back successfully and being a pain in the butt to shoot down(its also impossible to run away from us http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif). As a result of this, several FW pilots flying together tend to employ incredibly effective team tactics. I think theres plenty of glory in flying with your head and having control over your situation, as opposed to just looking for mud fights and furballs and leaving a big chunk of your situation to luck.

O! Jug pilots too! You guys are our allied counterpart and therefore u guys usually fly with ur brains as well (I love that big-nosed monster) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

JaBo_HH-BlackSheep
10-31-2004, 03:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mike8686:
No Glory? I think Anton and Dora pilots just tend to fly smarter, minimizing the opponents chances of fighting back successfully and being a pain in the butt to shoot down(its also impossible to run away from us http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif). As a result of this, several FW pilots flying together tend to employ incredibly effective team tactics. I think theres plenty of glory in flying with your head and having control over your situation, as opposed to just looking for mud fights and furballs and leaving a big chunk of your situation to luck.

O! Jug pilots too! You guys are our allied counterpart and therefore u guys usually fly with ur brains as well (I love that big-nosed monster) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

to keep it short;

we rule supreme!

10-31-2004, 04:20 PM
I agree that it is glorious to fly worse plane and still get kills. But then it's not the plane's merit but pilot's skill that decide about the fight result. And if so, then the same pilot would have even better results in a better plane.
I don't understand why exactly Dora should be so special. There are many better fighters in the game - Bf109G and K, Ki84, P-51 and now F4U. They all are not the best turners, but they are good in climb, good at high altitude, well armed and tough. In the opposite, FW190D has some disadvantages to them. Very bad maneuverability(is it possible to have blackout in dora?? - maybe at very high speed), bad visibility down from the crosshair(what severely limits deflection shooting), mean armament and rather slow climb rate(it is not energy conservation!)

Jumoschwanz
10-31-2004, 04:26 PM
In Johnnie Johnson's book there is a part where he spots a 190 with Itallian markings and has his Spit9 standing on it's wing on the edge of stalling to get on it's tail. The 190 pilot turns the tables and gets on Johnsons tail and he can't shake him! Johnson has to fly to a ship with flak batteries going and the 190 is gone when he goes by the ship, he thinks the flak either got it or chased it away.

Anyway, the 190 has always got a short stick in the Il2 series of sims. It was said at the time to be the best fighter in the sky in the early part of the war bar none. But in most patches of Il2 it has always accelerated like a slug, bled energy like a sieve, and turned like $hit more often than not. Anyone that does well in a 190 in a full real server online in this sim deserves all the respect in the world. S!

Jumoschwanz

Hunde_3.JG51
10-31-2004, 04:36 PM
I haven't flown the Dora much, but my initial impressions of the FW-190A are that it really hasn't changed.

Mike8686
10-31-2004, 04:58 PM
Aniol, try and fly any of the planes u listed Dora-Style and u'll see it ain't the same, Dora's flight characteristics make it king at what it does. And YES you definitley can blackout in a Dora, real nasty. You gotta remember that Dora's turning ability gets WAY better as ur going faster, few, if any A/C can out turn it once u get it up to speed. You probly think Dora is stinky cuz u don't fly it much, it really takes more to learn any FW than it takes to learn most other A/C. But yea, Dora is speed king, climbs nice (not as good as a 109 but better than P51), dives fast without breaking up, zoom climb is very pretty, roll is crazy good, very responsive rudder(useful for those last second aim adjustments), new muzzle flash lets us aim well with it now, it has great acceleration, insane high speed turning, and at slow speed (you should never fly slow with it but if you are...) it doesnt really turn that bad at all with careful flaps usage. If you ask me its a great fighter, just a bit snappy at lower speeds which makes it tough to fly if ur a furballer

NorrisMcWhirter
10-31-2004, 06:17 PM
Hi,

I normally drive the Antons because 4 **** guns are better than two **** guns but I tried the Dora out today in a quick and relatively un-scientific comparison.

I did 5 QMB match-ups each of 1 Dora (me) vs 2 veteran (bear with me, I'd had a few to drink):
a. P51D
b. P63
c. Spit IX
d. P47-1944
@ 3k

In AEP, I'd probably expect to beat the P51s, P47s and Spits but struggle with the P63s.

However, in PF, I had a clean sweep and was only shot down once in all 20 engagements by the Spit (because I find it's small and hard to hit and those Hispanos are quite powerful).

The new Dora turns and climbs well and seems generally better behaved in all areas. In short, it's now more of the dogfighter that history suggested it was. I won't give up on the Antons because the guns are still **** but it's now something which can be used effectively.

Anyone checked if the Ta152 is any good nowadays?

Cheers,
Norris

SeaFireLIV
10-31-2004, 06:29 PM
Anyone for the cheeky I16?

I`ll get my coat then...

Spinnetti
10-31-2004, 06:47 PM
I find that EVERY patch changes the FW's enough that I have to learn it fresh with every upgrade and patch. Even if it was bad, I wish they would just leave it alone so I don't have to relearn to fly it everytime.

Seems wierd now. Not sure if they actually changed it or not, but E seems better, but there is some other wierdness I can't pin down yet...

I changed out my Zero in the Midway mission for my trusty FW190 A5, and it was wonderful! I love the ships and oceans... There was one A5 sent to Japan, so Imagine that this was it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Was my best flight since I've owned the series back to the original IL2. 1 short burst each, and 5 planes went down. Not a single hit on me.

Only bad part was my first carrier landing! Was a little low (of course no visibility) at 180kph, full flaps and wiped out on the deck. At least I made it alive, and that with no arrestor hook!

11-01-2004, 06:36 AM
Mike, I am not a furballer, if I can I prefer to stay above but when energies are equal then there is nothing to do but turning (dive can do something only against much slower opponent like Zero). I flied Dora offline a bit, last time I even learned how to win with ace Yak3 and La7(and it is not head-on). But they were only AI.. I heard that FWs were greatly superior to Spitfires when they were introduced, so it seems that FockeWulfs are undermodelled in this game.

Cajun76
11-01-2004, 07:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aniol_zaglady:
Mike, I am not a furballer, if I can I prefer to stay above but when energies are equal then there is nothing to do but turning (dive can do something only against much slower opponent like Zero). I flied Dora offline a bit, last time I even learned how to win with ace Yak3 and La7(and it is not head-on). But they were only AI.. I heard that FWs were greatly superior to Spitfires when they were introduced, so it seems that FockeWulfs are undermodelled in this game. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I strongly disagree with this. A mechanical up-and-down BnZ takes no more skill than constantly pulling the stick to your gut in a 153. If your co-E, work the other guys E off, don't turn with him. Get him to bleed his E while maintaining or increasing yours. Following the above advice I'd never work myself out of an E defeciet or gain the upper hand in any engagement I started co- or equal E in the Jug.

Might as well bail out if someone is the same or higher alt at the beginning of the engagement doing it that way. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Zen--
11-01-2004, 09:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NorrisMcWhirter:


Anyone checked if the Ta152 is any good nowadays?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I posted this a few days ago, my initial thoughts on the Ta152


"What is dramatic is the change in the Ta152 however...now there is a definate improvement in acceleration. It feels like a D9 in level or shallow accelerations, very energetic in the vertical and holds it's climb very well at high AoA (which my understanding is accurate because of the large leading edge surface of its wings).

I had done some close range DF testing with a Spit IXe and my impressions were that the tables have turned in the vertical fight...the Ta now controls the spit and not the other way around. Endless looping with a spit doesn't work however, but the Ta can make excellent gains in E state during the 280-180km/h speed range (which happens at high AoA climbing) and also a tight spiral climb mostly in the vertical seems to really wear the spit out, again because of the gains that are made in the low speed range. This is due to the improved acceleration for sure because if the Ta dips the nose it can make really nice step climbs (short level extensions followed by high AoA climbing). Turn fighting in the Ta doesn't seem any better than usual really, the 310km/h dead wing stall is still there but at the higher speeds the Ta is responsive and generates anexcellent rate of turn. A big difference here is E retention, the plane as a whole retains E better especially in the vertical which makes the Ta a tough cookie when flown as an energy fighter. The dreaded death spin is still present but the plane has much more forgiving low speed stalls which do not lead to that violent spin as often and recovery from the stall is often much more rapid than AEP 2.04. On the whole the Ta is more forgiving under heavy manuevering and feels more like a FW than ever before. D9 tactics work very well with the Ta now, it seems capable as a close range E fighter rather than being limited to a pure bnz fighter.

No high altitude flying yet though but because of the improved acceleration it should peform better than in AEP 2.04. Will it be enough to defeat a jug? Hard to say but it's not as one sided as it used to be, at least based on SL acceleration and E retention. The nice thing is the Ta doesn't dump all it's speed in the first 90 degrees of it's vertical pullup, so it can now actually zoom pretty well. Many people may not like this (not sure I do either) but the Ta SL speed is at 604kph like the D9. "


<S>

Diablo310th
11-01-2004, 11:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JaBo_HH-BlackSheep:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Diablo310th:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KGr.HH-Sunburst:
Nothing will NEVER ever replace my Dora
Luftwaffe will never die http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

the allieds are in for a nasty surprise if they meet a FW190 in combat now http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Sunburst...it isn't jsut the Dora. Watch out for my Jug too. She zoom climbs like a bat out of hades and those 8 .50's hit like a ton of bricks now. All of the planes I ahve flown now seem to fly alot better actually. I'm looking forward to battling the LW in the new planes. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Befor i allow you to shoot at my wingleader i'll give you a taste of some 20mm ;-)

no seriously, i think the Flight-Modell-engine was reworked to allow carrier landings and stuff. As i heared none of the FB-Planes that weren't in PF got reworked (at least this seems to make sense), so i think it hast to do with some changes in the engine :-) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

~S~ Blacksheep. I do agree...I think there are some defiante changes to the game engine that are effecting different traits of ac.

TgD Thunderbolt56
11-01-2004, 12:13 PM
I took a Jug and a wingman up to 5k and went against 8 AI on veteran (4 Ki84's and 4 Ki61's) We got them down to three with little effort and my wingman bought it. I climbed to 6500 and B&Z'd those last three till finally the last Ki had had enough and tried to dive out...right...He shoulda known better.

Nothing amazing in that but I thought it was cool to fly a Jug over the Pacific and tangle with some high alt performers.