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View Full Version : Missing wing gunners in the TB-3?



Capt_Haddock
11-14-2004, 12:53 PM
The worst job in the VVS? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I'm reading this brilliant book on the TB3:
"Les bombardiers quadrimoteurs sovietiques Tupolev TB-3 et Pelyakov Pe-8", Kulinov, Masslov, Cony and Ledet, Collection Profils Avions no.3

It mentions that the TB-3 had 2 extra turrets hanging under the wings, each armed with a 7.62mm Degtyarev machinegun with 7 cartriges. If needed these turrets could be dropped!

I love the job Luthier did with this plane, one of my favourites in the game, by far, but one wonders... What happended with these turrets? Why didn't they make it into the game. Polygon limits? Game-engine constrains? Would have been interesting to find out how it felt doing the worst job in the VVS, but I guess it's still a lovely aeroplane to fly. With turrets or without http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Some pics (not from the book).
http://www.haddock.f2s.com/il2/forums/tb3_gunner_01.jpg
http://www.haddock.f2s.com/il2/forums/tb3_gunner_02.jpg
http://www.haddock.f2s.com/il2/forums/tb3_gunner_03.jpg

http://www.haddock.f2s.com/sig/F19bannerh.jpg
http://www.haddock.f2s.com/sig/F19banner.jpg
La culture, c'est comme la confiture: moins on en a, plus on l'étale,

Tintin-B17
11-14-2004, 01:22 PM
coooool

TX-WarHawk
11-14-2004, 02:05 PM
It would be lovely to see him burn along the engines, as he's a sitting just like them. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

jimmie_T
11-14-2004, 02:15 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

SwingerSpecial
11-14-2004, 03:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> If needed these turrets could be dropped!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Do you mean by the ground crews, or mid-flight??

p1ngu666
11-14-2004, 04:20 PM
yeah its a real shame we dont have em http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

FI_Willie
11-14-2004, 04:46 PM
7 cartridges?? FFS!! Why bother?? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

3.JG51_BigBear
11-14-2004, 05:05 PM
Were there crawl spaces in the wings, or did the gunners have to ride in those things all the way?

Cajun76
11-14-2004, 05:07 PM
In this case, (since it's obviously translated) I would think "7 cartriges" means 7 drums or belts of ammo, whatever the 7.62mm Degtyarev feeds from.

Adding two extra men and draggy turrets for 14 rounds would be the epitome of needless waste. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif If that were the case though, maybe they were there to render the high-tech engines inoperable, destroy or hide the Enigma Pencil, and cap the pilots and crew and each other to prevent State Secrets of the TB-3 Super-Weapon from falling into the enemies hands..... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

LEXX_Luthor
11-14-2004, 05:46 PM
Open belly gondola for Junkers Ju~86D...

http://www.zi.ku.dk/personal/drnash/model/spain/Media/Ju86.gif

~ http://www.zi.ku.dk/personal/drnash/model/spain/did.html

p1ngu666
11-14-2004, 07:18 PM
its probably a gun like those on top, but just single, hence 7 is probably drums, or clips.

more than u got on a lancaster anyways http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

btw, grandslam lancs had much removed, rear turret had just 2 303s instead of 4, and only 3 seconds of firetime. no mid upper, and front guns reduced to one with unknow ammo limit.
think rear gunner/plane normaly had 10 to 12,000 rounds of ammo

Aero_Shodanjo
11-14-2004, 09:15 PM
Hmm... these turrets have anti gravity systems inside them so they can float and fly by themself when dropped in mid air. Sort of mobile aerial defence for TB3. Combine that with the two I-16 SPB and you see another Russian secret weapon in WWII http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Capt_Haddock
11-15-2004, 02:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FI_Willie:
7 cartridges?? FFS!! Why bother?? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bad translation, my mistake http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
I meant 7 ammo clips.

I'm pretty sure the guys could crawl inside the wings to the turret, as it wasn't unusual for the crew to make small engine repairs in flight.
It also looks like the turrets could be raised up to reduce drag, but it's just a guess.

http://www.haddock.f2s.com/sig/F19bannerh.jpg
http://www.haddock.f2s.com/sig/F19banner.jpg

JG77_Tintin
11-15-2004, 03:12 AM
Dustbin gunner stations. Can you add one to the "Tante Ju" for an early Luftwaffe bomber.

Vipez-
11-15-2004, 07:10 AM
thx interesting... those things would however, make the allready superspeeded TB-3 even slower :]

Copperhead310th
11-15-2004, 09:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cajun76:
In this case, (since it's obviously translated) I would think "7 cartriges" means 7 drums or belts of ammo, whatever the 7.62mm Degtyarev feeds from.

Adding two extra men and draggy turrets for 14 rounds would be the epitome of needless waste. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif If that were the case though, maybe they were there to render the high-tech engines inoperable, destroy or hide the Enigma Pencil, and cap the pilots and crew and each other to prevent State Secrets of the TB-3 Super-Weapon from falling into the enemies hands..... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My understanding is that it used ROUND top mounted cartriges. but don't quote me on that.

Capt_Haddock
11-15-2004, 04:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Copperhead310th:
My understanding is that it used ROUND top mounted cartriges. but don't quote me on that. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep. Here you go:
http://www.winterwar.com/images/Weapons/m1927dp.gif

http://www.haddock.f2s.com/sig/F19bannerh.jpg
http://www.haddock.f2s.com/sig/F19banner.jpg
Les bourgeois c'est comme les cochons Plus ça devient vieux plus ça devient...

FI_Willie
11-15-2004, 07:59 PM
The 7 drums of ammo makes a LOT more sense. I was wondering if the guys were REALLY good marksmen. ;