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View Full Version : How to care for your 109K



Jagdklinger
01-22-2005, 04:21 AM
After flirting with the P51,190, and the La's,I have returned to my first, true love - the 109 series. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif
I previously flew the earlier Gs, but now I am using the penultimate 109, the K-4.
And consistently trashing the engine. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
Some advice on the care and maintenace of a 109K would be much appreciated. It's cool to outpace P51s, but they soon catch me as I am struggling to see through my smoking engine... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif

Fuel mix/prop pitch are still (somewhat)dark mysteries to me and I suspect one or the other may hold the answer

PS: Similar advice on for the 190D would also be appreciated, as I am considering making 'Dora' my latest woman on the side...

Jagdklinger
01-22-2005, 04:21 AM
After flirting with the P51,190, and the La's,I have returned to my first, true love - the 109 series. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif
I previously flew the earlier Gs, but now I am using the penultimate 109, the K-4.
And consistently trashing the engine. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
Some advice on the care and maintenace of a 109K would be much appreciated. It's cool to outpace P51s, but they soon catch me as I am struggling to see through my smoking engine... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif

Fuel mix/prop pitch are still (somewhat)dark mysteries to me and I suspect one or the other may hold the answer

PS: Similar advice on for the 190D would also be appreciated, as I am considering making 'Dora' my latest woman on the side...

VF-29_Sandman
01-22-2005, 06:04 AM
sounds like u are allowing it to over-rev for too long. will fry a 109's engine quickly. think there's an engine chart on cd1 in pdf format. never use wep when at full throttle; u have to throttle back before using wep, and before turning off wep.

LStarosta
01-22-2005, 06:21 AM
You must manage your engines RPM's. If you keep the engine on high RPM's it will over-rev. To prevent this, lower your propeller pitch. Furthermore do NOT apply boost after your throttle has passed the 100% mark. You apply boost when you are below 100%, and then the boost turns on automatically after you slide past 100%. Most people I know turn the boost on on the ground right after they turn their engine on. American and British boost systems are not as powerful as German boost systems, so what you can do with water injection in a Jug, you can't do with MW50 in a 109. Use the boost when you have to, or you'll be inhaling second hand smoke from your engine.

VF-29_Sandman
01-22-2005, 06:25 AM
there is a critical rpm that cant be exceeded for very long. i just cant seem to find it. if u exceed it, u will blow the engine in as little as 3 seconds

JG53Frankyboy
01-22-2005, 06:51 AM
-about mixture and supercharger you havent to care about , thats all automatic.

-cooler, i have it most time full open, closeing it only in emergency ore to get the last few km/h out of the plane.

-engine overheat, running in overheat condition the engine gets damaged after 5min!
so, you can run the DB605 for 4min safe in overhat condition - it enough time , over a minute, than to cool it.

-max dive speed is 900km/h IAS
best climb around 280km/h IAS

-propeller , well, you leave it in most cases at automatik ! the K4 has enough power.
IF you are realy in emergency than you can switch to manual mode ! take care, dodnt let go the rev over 2800rpm !
best, still on runway, engine at idel, go manual, set pitch to 50% - than back to auto.
so, when you switching again to manual you dont overrev because you are at 50% propeller

- MW50.
enable/disable MW50 at very low rpm! best 0% power. otherwise you can damage your engine. keep in mind that the MW50 fluid is ONLY used above 100% power ! you have MW50 in total for 26min in the 109s.

-elevator response at high speed. use tailheavy trimm , it helps. also keep in mind that you can set combat flaps at every speed without getting flapdamage.

F19_Ob
01-22-2005, 08:22 AM
In real life the MV50 boost was used around 1 or 2mins at the time in general, in the accounts I've read. Longer periods wore out the engine faster and it could even get damaged.
The engines still had to be changed fairly often anyway so the pilots monitored the engines very carefully.


----------------------------
The 109 cant go on overheat for long the engine will just die on u.

As soon as auto pitch vas available from the F models and onwards the pilots in general used the auto pitch in combat.
The engines get damaged quickly when overrevved even a little.
And pilots didnt want to risk their life over water or far from home so the autopitch was the best option.
The manual pitch can give marginally more power in an emergency but with multiple foes around its a bad choice (my opinion).
People who have the proppitch mapped to a slider say its more efficent and easier to use, but I have no slider so I dont know how much better it is.

As mentioned before the fuel mix is automatic
and along with autopitch it made the 109 one of the best fighters around.
It was easy to fly with its good characteristics but tricky in takeoff and landing aswell as shooting especially with the 30mm cannon. Also the strain of pressing rudder althe time in low speeds was tiring and autofunctions really helped the pilots a lot in reducing the workload.

Many still keep claiming the 109 as an experts plane and that it was so difficult to fly but compared to many allied fighters it was easy in flight and the difficulties lie in landing and takeoff aswell as shooting with one cannon (exept in 109e) and 2 mg's, but then most of the russian mounts had only 2 or four mg's and many yaks and LaGG3 had only one mg and one cannon and they thought it was enough.

The speciality of the 109 early in the war was that it could choose when to fight or when to leave and most of the allied planes couldnt and thus were defensive fighters only. Thats why the defensive circle was so important for the russians and atleast enabled them a chance of survival when atacked by 109's or fw190 since they could not fly away from them. their only option was to stay and circle until the germans left and try to get snapshots at them when they BnZ the circle.
It was only until late in the war when the allied planes got almost equal speed and climb that they could succesfully and regulary win fights against the germans, on all theatres.
This is also why the plane with more energy will be the winner of most fights. The slower plane just cant catch up and thus cant climb after the attacker and really only have to wait for opportunities.
Ofcourse an ace in the less performing plane can still win many fights but there still is that "attacking or leaving at will" thing that matters a lot.

a few thoughts http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

tsisqua
01-22-2005, 08:46 AM
OMG! Someone knows the word "penultimate". Sorry, OT, I know.

punultimate: next to last; the one before the last one.

You 109 pilots . . . you are always shooting me down. Especially while you are flying that dreaded "K" thingy!

And I might add that I cannot fly a 109 for anything. In my hands, it is a pickup truck, so I might also conclude that you guys are the best of the bunch in combat.

Stay in the plane that you love the most, which seems to be the K for you. Fly others when bored, but don't stay away from your first love. For me it is the Lightning, and once in awhile I actually get a kill or two, seeing the limitations of the game's version of the bird, and I am very happy about the occaisional kill that I do get. She is also the coolest ground pounder, because she can actually dogfight if she has to afterwards. I've gotten pretty good at flying the Lightning to its strengths, just from doing one thing: Fly her alot! And I'll avoid you guys in the 109's as if you had the plague until all my ordinance is gone. Then you'll either take me headon, or you won't see me on my RTB, cause I will be hauling my 6 as fast as she will go until I can land.

And now there is another one of you guys to watch out for . . . jeesh! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Good Luck, Mate! I suspect that the next time I see you, I will be on fire. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Tsisqua

LStarosta
01-22-2005, 08:53 AM
109K is a nice plane, but I dislike its elevator characteristics.

Saburo_0
01-22-2005, 09:21 AM
Some very nice posts with lots of useful infirmation.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

BfHeFwMe
01-22-2005, 01:11 PM
Take a G-10, much better airplane.

Badsight.
01-22-2005, 03:50 PM
there is no need to fly a G10

or the G14

von-zombie
01-22-2005, 04:24 PM
I like to think of the planes in terms of road racing motorcycles. The 109 to me is like a Ducatti with that good ole'low thundering grunt and early on i let the low reving motor sound fool me into thinking it needed more throttle. Not the case! Just because it's not screaming like a merlin doesn't mean it's not working. In fact many racers who first ride the Ducatti complain about getting used to the rev's also.

Tvrdi
01-22-2005, 05:38 PM
K4 is an ultimate overheater...in the sim...

p1ngu666
01-22-2005, 05:39 PM
merlins only scream ingame http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

tsisqua, if u see me on HL poke me, ill teach u what i know about flyin 109 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

BelaLvgosi
01-22-2005, 06:10 PM
I only engage mw50 below 1800rpm, while on mid air, I cut throttle for an instant, and engage it below 1800rpm, and then I can firewall without damage. Rads full open also don't affect performance "that much", but it will overheat a LOT less, you can cruise without a problem at 103% rads full open and still climb your way like a space shuttle.
When going for a dive reduce throttle imediatly, because engine will rev up and go over the 2800rpm limit, usually I set to 80% and gradually increase it as I level (and the engine doesn't scream). Use every little chance you have to chop throttle (after a hammerhead per example) because its very fast to cool it down, even in combat 110% is very dangerous for the engine due to overrevs even in gentle manouvering, so 100-105 is safer and fast too.
It's very easy to get permanent damage engine in the K, I'm not sure about this, but I can swear that sometimes when the engine overheat message appears you've already lost some power.
Sorry if some info isn't accurate, but it's my general guide when I play with it (my fave ride though).

Zatorski
01-22-2005, 07:44 PM
I always engage MW50 at idle before takeoff, also, I enagae manual pitch at idle and set it to about 70%, and then set it to auto. That way I can go to manual pitch in-flight and it will start out at 70% and not 100% which will fry your motor if you have any speed at all. I use my hatswitch left and right to "change gears", and yes 2800rpm is a hard redline.

Jagdklinger
01-23-2005, 12:16 AM
Excellent advice, guys, that'll really help. Time to introduce those P51s to 'Herr Mk108'. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

(I don't count P38s and P47s as they are mere fighter-BOMBERS (Tsisqua, btw, the 'fighter' prefix is silent).... ...Sorry - couldn't resist http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif - I'm just petulantly taking my inability to fly the abovementioned planes out on you.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

CD_Turbo
01-23-2005, 04:27 AM
Hello!

I've been flyin the K4 alot.
I used to use prop pitch alot but ive simplified my game abit.

When i use prop pitch i keep the revs at about max 2800 when climbing otherwise i use auto execpt if i have to run from a plane level which doesnt happen often.

Now i play like this:
I use wep and have throttle at 94% in combat to keep it pumping power.
When ive dived and boomed i turn up again and crank 110% power until i reach my top and throttle down again to 94%

Simple and works well

KaRaYa-X
01-23-2005, 08:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:
tsisqua, if u see me on HL poke me, ill teach u what i know about flyin 109 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Since when do you touch Bf109s p1ngu? Did you finally decide to switch to the light side of the force!? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

p1ngu666
01-23-2005, 09:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KaRaYa-X:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:
tsisqua, if u see me on HL poke me, ill teach u what i know about flyin 109 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Since when do you touch Bf109s p1ngu? Did you finally decide to switch to the light side of the force!? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

i fly the heathenmobile from time to time http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

last time i scored 4 kills http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Heavy_Weather
01-23-2005, 10:15 AM
yep Starosta said it all, never apply boost if you at 100% throttle, back down throttle then apply boost. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

tsisqua
01-23-2005, 12:07 PM
P1ngu666,

Thank you for your generous offer, Mate!

I'll be looking for ya http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Tsisqua

p1ngu666
01-23-2005, 12:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tsisqua:
P1ngu666,

Thank you for your generous offer, Mate!

I'll be looking for ya http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Tsisqua <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

on HL now http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

flyingscampi
01-23-2005, 03:08 PM
For DB605 lovers http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

http://www.axiomdigital.com/db605.htm

Jagdklinger
01-23-2005, 06:51 PM
Ahhh, it feels so good. Thanks to advice, my 109K reigns supreme (against the hapless AI, admittedly... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif)

No overheat problems, and 'rocketship' 109 outclimbed everyone with ease, shooting down a P38 with a fabulous (if I say so myself) 30mm deflection shot and running one of those ugly P47s into the ground as it tried to escape me low....

109K - underrated?
Btw, how come the Dora seems to be the preferred mount of online 'aces'. I.e. the 109K seems to outclimb and out-turn anything it can't outrun,something the 190 can't claim to do. The 190 does the 'boom' but the 109 puts the 'zoom' in BnZ (although I DO dearly love the 190s multiple cannons...

mynameisroland
01-24-2005, 08:55 AM
I used tofly the 109 exclusively but got frustrated but the lack of manuverability at speed - particularly when diving to attack someone. If they notice you and change their flight path you are screwed because your controls are locked solid.

This is why i jumped ship and now fly the Fw190 on every map which features it. You have to be more patient and more accurate with your flying but it gives you flexiblity in adjusting your aim at the last minute- invaluable in the above situation.

Ive no idea why the 109 handles so badly at speed ok its elevator stiffened up and this has been well documented. Historically it was used hugely successfully as a B and Z er yet in the game you are handicapped to a degree.

The Spitfire also stiffened up at speeds anywhere over 400mph and this was not properly remedied until the very last generation - like the XIV and the Mk21 neither of which are in the game so it does seem that a little too much 'attention' has been paid to the 109's elevator and roll control by the developers.

Another reason for flying the 190 is that - whatever the year - you can pretty much out speed anything as long as you keep your engine at 80% and rad open until you need to use it for combat. 109's and La's heat up quick and spit's and yak's dont have the speed to run you down unless they have large enough initial energy advantage.

tsisqua
01-24-2005, 09:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tsisqua:
P1ngu666,

Thank you for your generous offer, Mate!

I'll be looking for ya http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Tsisqua <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

on HL now http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

P1ngu666,

I will need to have my kids in bed, or at school first. They are good kids, but nonetheless, require too much attention for me to get on voice coms while I am in charge LOL.

I'll see you soon, and I hope you are patient http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Tsisqua

p1ngu666
01-24-2005, 10:43 AM
hey np http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

glad i dont have kids http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

anyways its pretty easy http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

han freak solo
01-24-2005, 11:19 AM
"How to care for your 109K"

Rub her belly and listen to her purr. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

K-a-k-e
01-21-2006, 08:09 PM
uhm... tested this... you can turn wep on 109 K4 as many times as you want with 100% throttle without damaging engine, but not over 100. 101% or more when turning wep on will damage it a bit every time when done. turning it off at 110% wont have any negative effect.

danjama
01-21-2006, 08:21 PM
This thread is apparently one year old, almost exactly.

Pingu is still on HL waitin http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif