View Full Version : No BoB for me :^(

07-02-2005, 01:08 AM
Well, as good as BoB is sounding like it's going to be, I can't bring myself to buy it based on my recent experiences with Ubisoft.
I currently have many Ubisoft titles... (R6 Raven shield, Athena Sword, Ghost Recon,IL-2,IL-2-FB,AEP,PF, LOMAC,SH-1&2,Destroyer Command.... you name it, I've got it.
Here's where the problem lies: I have been drooling over the prospect of getting Silent Hunter 3 for several months now. I really wanted to incorporate it into a Combined Movie production with IL-2,FB,AEP,PF., so I finally stepped up and purchased it from the local Wal-mart store. The Game installed with no problems,and I was told in an installation dialog box that my system would allow the game to be run with optimum graphics settings. Then the nightmare started....When I tried to run the game, I got a Dialog box with the heading "Protection System" and it said there was an Error, and I needed to insert the DVD disc and press "Retry".... no luck. No matter what I did, I couldn't even get the game to fire up and allow me to enter the user key from the inside of the case.
Ubisoft does not have a phone number posted on their website for help and support, so I sent a post after reviewing their FAQ's, to try and get some help. Keep in mind, I had been up until the wee hours of the morning trying to get the game running (about 5 hours working on it). I was frustrated, and was angry when I posted.... I referred to the software as being $hit product. Yes I agree, I could have handled the situation better.
Ubisoft's response was that if I continued to address the problem in an adversarial fashion, they would refuse service. Understanding that I was out of line, I tried to post an apology.... after a half an hour of typing my apology, I tried to post, and it didn't go through. Having spent enough time on it, I put my kids to bed, and went back to trying to fix the problem... this time with an exchanged copy from Wal-Mart.... Same results. I tried to contact Customer service again, and Ask for help.... nicely this time. Afterwards, I started looking around at some forums and found that Ubisoft has resorted to "Back Door Techniques" of installing Some kind of copyright protection software called "Starforce", that actually installs drivers on your system that monitors and reports your systems running and device parameters to some web sites (At least this is what I've read on some forums...not totally sure as to the accuracy of the statements) I went into my registry to try and delete the Starforce Reg-keys.... can't do it I had to actually search for a remover for Starforce. Finally got it off my system, and I don't have connectivity issues like I had when it was on here.
Back to the situation with Ubisoft... I posted an additional comment stating my concern over their Starforce software, and the methods they stooped to, to install this spyware on my system, and that I wasn't too happy about it. I did ask once again for a workable solution to the problem too.
I got home from work the following day to find no response to my request. Thats when I lost it...once again, my anger ansd disgust flared, and I referred to Ubisoft as a $hit company selling $hit software, annd that I'm through dealing with them... And that I would be returning the software to the store. (Which I did this morning).
When I got home, ...What do you know! I got a response from Ubisoft..... Stating that they will not put up with abusive language, and therefore would not help me, and they consider the problem resolved....Hmmmm seems like the only time they make an effort to contact their customers is after tempers have flared ...so they can refuse service.
What a shame. I really had high hopes for both SH3 and BoB, but I'm done with Ubisoft. Anyone interested in seeing the thread all this took place on can go to: http://ubisoft.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/ubisoft.cfg/php/end...ridsort=&p_row_cnt=1 (http://ubisoft.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/ubisoft.cfg/php/enduser/myq_idp.php?p_iid=476893&p_created=1120027664&p_sid=rgAu_pJh&p_lva=&p_sp=&p_li=cF91c2VyaWQ9RUQxNDlBQ0UtMzQ4Qy00RkUxLUJFRTYtR TY3Q0VFNEMwNUZFJnBfcGFzc3dkPThCNjZBMDU0LTk0QjEtNDM zQS1CJnBfbGlfcGFzc3dkPSZwX2xpX2V4cGlyeT0xMTIwMjg5M zcz&p_page=1&p_sort_by=&p_gridsort=&p_row_cnt=1)

and review the thread. Yes I was out of line at first, but when I saw no response even after more civil posts, I feel Ubisoft showed their true colors. All I can say is Buyer Beware!
Oleg, you are truly a master when it comes to Flight simulations, and I will continue to enjoy your sim's that I already own, but I'm sorry to say that I'll not be enjoying BoB, because I've taken a hard stance on this matter. I will definitely be keeping my eyes open for your work should you ever decide to find a different vehicle to distribute your product to the consumer. Keep up the good work!
As for the rest in the flight sim community, some will criticise me for my language and anger in my posts, and some will understand my frustration. All I can say, is software piracy is an ugly thing...I have purchased all of my games (some new, some Second hand, but All are original copies) it's just sad that the software has become so copyright protected that it won't even work, and has driven a wedge between me and what I used to consider one of the best simulation software producers out there.
Hopefully,they can fix their problem, and still retain the level of copyright protection they require.



07-02-2005, 01:14 AM

07-02-2005, 03:26 AM
Your sig is rather apposite. You employed bad judgement throughout your dealings with Ubisoft, and with your misunderstanding and misrepresentation of what Starforce is and does (it may well be a PITA - although I personally have had no problems whatsoever with FB/AEP/PF, SH3 or any other game using it - but spyware it ain't), and your experiences were less than positive. A cooler head, more facts, and less reliance on the tinfoil hat brigade's distorted view of Starforce would have got you the help you needed to fix your problem.

Perhaps good judgement may come of this. I sympathise with you over your troubles, but you brought the outcome on yourself.

07-02-2005, 03:26 AM


07-02-2005, 05:27 AM
I must say that if starforce is used on BoB i will think twice before buying it (and i currently bought 2xIL2, 2xFB, AEP and PF, can't say i'm not a loyal customer).

I had all kind of problems with SHIII's starforce on my desktop (works OK with laptop)... That said, contacting starforce support (is there even a true support at Ubi ? French companies are usually known for lack of support -i'm french, had some real bad experiments with most companies support-) helped getting the game to run, with fast, polite and efficient answers.

But still my CD burner has simply ceased to work since installing SHIII (and i didn't even try to get a backup copy with it, SHIII is DVD and i have no DVD burner), maybe a coincidence but the perfect synchronization of the events is intriguing at least...

07-02-2005, 05:36 AM
And eventually he will own "Bob" as well... lol! Some people just like to Bit*!

07-02-2005, 05:41 AM

Then don't buy it.

07-02-2005, 10:47 AM
Good, more BoB for me then.

07-02-2005, 12:40 PM
BTW, your not missing much, SH3 is not all that good. You dont get to interact with the crew. givee orders if you can figure out the interface. The manual is more pathetic than PF. The interface is Eastern European...nerly unworkable. Good graphics but poor gameplay. The firing the AA 20mm is very like MOH...more of a console game really. I felt that you would be able to walk around a 3D sub. Go to the engine room ..go to the torpedo room etc.. ..nope none of that. But UBI is good at advertising and PR...

07-02-2005, 02:04 PM
Originally posted by Blackdog5555:
go to the engine room ..go to the torpedo room etc.. ..nope none of that.

Thats not where the captain belongs.

07-02-2005, 02:08 PM
Originally posted by HoneySeeker:
Your sig is rather apposite. You employed bad judgement throughout your dealings with Ubisoft, and with your misunderstanding and misrepresentation of what Starforce is and does (it may well be a PITA - although I personally have had no problems whatsoever with FB/AEP/PF, SH3 or any other game using it - but spyware it ain't), and your experiences were less than positive. A cooler head, more facts, and less reliance on the tinfoil hat brigade's distorted view of Starforce would have got you the help you needed to fix your problem.

I agree Honeyseeker, a cooler head would have gotten better results, but I also want you to be aware that I tried asking for help properly. Perhaps this should have been done up front, butwhen I didn't see any response after the second day, it became clear that Ubisoft had absolutely no interest in fixing their problem, regardless of how a request for help was asked.
Yes... I was out of line at first, and I tried to apologize. Through some "web page timeout" or something, or for whatever reason, the post didn't make it through. I wasn't ready to type the apology over again. I did ask nicely for help with no response. After that I got disgusted and told them my feelings.... This time, I meant every word of it. The only time I was ever contacted by a Ubisoft rep. was to insult me, when it's them who have the problem with their product.... I'm done with them.

07-02-2005, 03:11 PM
Guys, cut him some slack, he was tired and p***** off, we've all been there, ( me included ) and then he answered, more politly, still no responce. Its UBI fault not his.

Good luck mate. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

07-02-2005, 03:15 PM
A lot of paranoid people out there.

SHIII runs great on my system btw and I have not noticed a single problem what so ever regarding connectivity or anything else since this so called Spyware has been installed.

More level headed thinking and less X Files might help.

07-02-2005, 04:48 PM

Don`t be sad.I`m sure that until BoB comes out,someone will come up with a program that blocks Starforce once it enters your HDD.

07-02-2005, 06:11 PM
They Starforce BoB and I don't care how good it is, I won't buy it.

It's not on any IL2 series product.
But it is on SHIII and it does conflict with some other software.
It's also very nasty.

I know someone who may be very interested in a Starforce remover if he hasn't already
wiped and reloaded his system.

07-02-2005, 06:32 PM
Funny the people here critizing this guy for being upset by this experiance are the same people that were talking thier smack about the patch,
hypocrites! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

07-02-2005, 06:48 PM
Starfoce seems to be an enigma.Some people have had no problems and other have had nothing but problems.Especially with the protection key code(not the game key code).Also once install people with cd rw or dvdrw drives have had problems.

I do not know about spyware but starforce does install hidden drivers(without your permission)on you hard drive.Go to device manager,then click on view (at the top) and then click on "show hidden devices".Scroll down and open up "non plug and play drivers".You will see 3 starfoce drivers.

It seems more people than not have had problems.You can go to any game forum and search for "starforce" and you will find plenty of posts.I guess one has to decide for himself.

I just hope that Ubi finds an alternate copy protection by the time BoB arrives.

07-02-2005, 09:55 PM
Guys, I appreciate the interest in this topic... I figured it would bring out both negative and positive comments. As far as the way I handled it.... it was wrong. I could have been more level headed from the start. But Lord-Rapter hit the nail on the head.... I was working on trying to get the game running until 2:00 AM the first night, and by then, I was extremely tired and frustrated.... Still no excuse for my actions though.
What I do have a problem with, is that even after asking for help nicely (with a Please)...I still didn't get any response.
Fuser59 said I'll probably still buy BoB and that some people just like to Bit**!.. First of all, I had a legitimate Bit**! As for the possibility of me buying BoB...You may be right... If I see a definite improvement in their copyright protection program....I may buy it just because I'm a Flight-sim junkie! (Even though I suck at ACM http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif) If Ubisoft is the only supplier out there with a good combat flight sim..I either need to eat my words and buy it, or give up my flying with this flight sim community.. once BoB comes out, the people who are flying IL-2 FB-AEP-PF, will slowly dwindle and move on to BoB. But I will also buy very carefully, and do my research first..... after looking on the wab, there are many cases of Starforce rendering peoples software and in some cases, their hardware useless. I won't knowingly purchase ANYTHING with Starforce as a Copy protection system.
Also, The very reason I posted a link to the discussion thread from my problem was to allow you... the flight sim community see both sides of the discussion. Thanks to all of you who have posted suggestions, so I can hopefully handle things better in the future.

07-02-2005, 09:58 PM
All I understand is that StarForce is an issue that has not been dealt with properly by UbiSoft or by the company that makes the protection product.

There is not enough of an obvious implementation to suggest that a security function has been implemented - its installed without the users knowledge (in my experience).

I firmly believe that Ubi does have the right to protect its software from being stolen. However, I'm quite certain that StarForce is stopping only the very basic of pirates. Windows XP's big fancy security system and activation system (back in the day) was cracked in 24 hours of release.

There definately has to be some work yet done on this issue to prevent users from being frusterated (no user should ever have to call the tech support line about copy protection - the software should be that easy) and to protect the intellectual property of people like Oleg who are really hurt by all of this nonesense.

I'll still be buying BoB by the way. I stand by the good quality and spirit of the developer. Unless those qualities somehow disappear in the future...

07-02-2005, 11:44 PM
I just got lomac yesterday - the last copy at the store...there is a learning curve.

The F-15 is nice....

The terrain looks better than Fb/PF...

I dont like the moon.

I do like missiles.

I do not like the controls mapping arrangement.

As far as Starforce goes...you can unhook it.
and it wouldnt be there at all if it weren't
for the problems that nasty thieves cause.
So don't blame property owners for trying to protect their property...I protect mine. You probably would protect yours if it was your livelihood, no?

07-03-2005, 10:15 AM
Does UBIsoft state that it installs these hidden drivers on the system in their agreement or whatever? If not, they better be careful, unless they want a lawsuit.

07-03-2005, 02:24 PM
If BoB is indeed, "protected" by Starforce then I also won't be a buyer. Starforce "protection" software simply won't run on my system and after countless email exchanges with their tech support I won't bother anymore.

There are other protection schemes out there that work without installing drivers (which, BTW do not uninstall themselves until you pester their tech support enough for them to tell you how and no, it isn't just the removal tool they give you.)

I've bought three titles with Starforce protection and none work. They all suffer from the same LE 1450 error which no amount of patching corrects. I'm done buying $50 coasters.

If BOB goes with it then they've lost a customer. I understand the reasoning behind the idea but Starforce is a sub-par solution that doesn't accomplish it's goal and blocks legitmiate users from using the software they've purchased.

07-03-2005, 06:27 PM
(I don't think anyone cares !)

07-03-2005, 07:57 PM
I won't purchase anything with starfarce, It would be real shame if any PF/FB add-on came with starfarce (as seems to be UBi policy now). LOMAC didn't have starfarce, did it? (as opposed to flaming cliffs).

07-03-2005, 10:49 PM
I would just like to change the name from BOB to something like, i don't know, maybe:

Bombrun Over the Infidel Englander


London's Burning, Horrido!


England Isle, Land of lost Germans


07-06-2005, 06:27 AM
I wouldnt sweat it if I were you.. conidering that BoB wont be out for another 1-2 years... who knows what other kind of protection will be out then.

07-06-2005, 07:36 AM
You could always take the obvious rout

1 Buy BOB
2 Download the pirated version without protection and install that.

That way you have a version without starforce and have a legal right to have 1 copy installed on your system.

Of course if you then pass the pirated copy to others then your right out of order.

Note to all game manufacturers
Find a protection method that doesnt alienate your customers, leave that side of computing to Microsoft.

Do I condone Piracy NO will I use them to get an otherwise good game running as intended YES