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View Full Version : Joystick decisions, "Ohh My!"



Sub_Boy
05-24-2008, 07:50 AM
Hi all,

After buying IL-2 recently I decided to upgrade my joystick was a cheap Logitec attack 3, worked well for couple of years but noticed it had problems after trying to calibrate it for IL-2, wearing out I guess.

I read a few threads here on the topic of which joysticks were best, looked like most prefered the Saitek, and a couple of other brands over Logitec although a few defended Logitec as well.
At this point I went to my local Future Shop to see what they had, in the joystick/flightstick products, they carried several types but only two brands, so for me it came down to a choice between the Logitec 3D Pro ($99.99 Can.), and the Saitek Aviator ($60.99 Can.).

Now in indecision of which one to buy I decided to buy both knowing I could take one back hassle free.
I tryed the Logitec first installed software, calibrated it, set up button assignments etc. and it worked well, but in use this is what I found pro, and con wise at least for me useing one of my saved, same quick build scenario's, same planes etc. for both sticks.

Logitec Pro's, simplicity of set up, throttle control positioned behind stick for ease of use as opposed to in front, looks pretty too.

Con's, too limp a feel to the stick (no spring), over sensitive in flight, especially a dogfight, hard to stay steady on a targets tail and line up a shot especially when your on thier "six", waste a lot of ammo.
Jerking motion on screen in tight turns.
Maybe more configuration was needed to correct this don't know, but I did my best.

I than unistalled all for Logitec 3D Pro, and installed all for the Saitek Aviator, callibration, button assignments etc, and in use I found the following pros, and cons.

Saitek Pros, much improvement in flight quality in every respect, spring makes for tighter control, and I can stay on course, or enemy targets much better, and more rounds hit target, no jerking on screen in tight turns at all.
Great frontal button placement as opposed to Logitecs fumbulling side buttons.
Saved about forty dollars!

Con's, I personally preferred Logitecs throttle position behind stick as I find having to reach/strech my left hand in front of the stick in close combat awkward.
Programming button assignments whith the "profile editor" a bit more complicated but nothing hard enough you can't get a handle on, read instructions twice, I did.

In ending this long story guess which stick I kept, yep the Saitek,and the opinions above are soley mine, but I hope this information helps those newbs out there, like me decide on chooseing a joy stick.

Cheers.

K_Freddie
05-24-2008, 01:10 PM
Err.. OK!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Sub_Boy
05-24-2008, 01:14 PM
Err... back at ya lol.



Cheers.

VW-IceFire
05-24-2008, 01:33 PM
Good review! Yeah the Saitek will ultimately win out over Logitech in the long run...or really should based on the Logitech reputation. I love their keyboards and mice but 'sticks are not their thing.

Enjoy the Aviator and happy simming!

Sillius_Sodus
05-24-2008, 03:30 PM
Yup, the Avi8tor is a good stick even thought the throttle placement is a bit weird. Too bad IL2 doesn't support a two throttle stick.

dirkpit7
05-24-2008, 03:50 PM
Con's, I personally preferred Logitecs throttle position behind stick as I find having to reach/strech my left hand in front of the stick in close combat awkward.

I presume you're talking about Logitech Exterme 3D Pro, is that correct?

If so, have you confused the throttle placements here? Because the Extreme 3D Pro has throttle in front and Aviator behind.

Otherwise a good review. I have currently a strong temptation to buy the Aviator to use it with the Saitek throttle quadrant (even though I have X52 Pro!) I think this would be somewhat more relistic for old WW2 planes. (Yes, I am crazy! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif) The lack of trim wheels in such set-up is concerning me, though.

ytareh
05-24-2008, 04:06 PM
The Logitech's Throttle IS behind the stick (ASSuming you use your own 'behind ' as a reference point)...and I adore the Extreme 3d Pro....Have tried MS Sidewinder,Saitek Evo Platinum,Cougar HOTAS,Thrustmaster Fox and Stick X ...All inferior to the Logitechin every sense that matters apart from (PERHAPS!-Ive had some last me 2 years )reliability...Hey worst case just buy a new one when they 'go'-or bring it back for a freebie replacement

Sub_Boy
05-24-2008, 04:35 PM
Originally posted by dirkpit7:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Con's, I personally preferred Logitecs throttle position behind stick as I find having to reach/strech my left hand in front of the stick in close combat awkward.

I presume you're talking about Logitech Exterme 3D Pro, is that correct?

If so, have you confused the throttle placements here? Because the Extreme 3D Pro has throttle in front and Aviator behind.

Otherwise a good review. I have currently a strong temptation to buy the Aviator to use it with the Saitek throttle quadrant (even though I have X52 Pro!) I think this would be somewhat more relistic for old WW2 planes. (Yes, I am crazy! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif) The lack of trim wheels in such set-up is concerning me, though. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I guess it depends on how you look at it, and what you determine is the front, and the behind, forgetting the base, and all the other buttons on it EXCEPT the throttle controls of the Saitek flightstick, and useing it in its proper position,I would consider the throttle controls to be in front of the stick,and if I were to turn the stick completly around with the throttles closest to me, well the throttles would be in a great spot, but every thing else wouldn't making flying very hazerdous and backwards, therfore thats why I came to my front and behind conclusions.
In any event no matter which way you see it, the throttles are useable but still awkward.

Cheers.

Sub_Boy
05-24-2008, 04:50 PM
Originally posted by ytareh:
The Logitech's Throttle IS behind the stick (ASSuming you use your own 'behind ' as a reference point)...and I adore the Extreme 3d Pro....Have tried MS Sidewinder,Saitek Evo Platinum,Cougar HOTAS,Thrustmaster Fox and Stick X ...All inferior to the Logitechin every sense that matters apart from (PERHAPS!-Ive had some last me 2 years )reliability...Hey worst case just buy a new one when they 'go'-or bring it back for a freebie replacement

I never said the 3D pro was bad or was out to bash it, Logitecs throttle placement was definite plus over the Saitek and sorry but in my opinion about the only one. This was one of the reasons I originally bought both to try because right off the bat I didn't like the throttle placement on the Saitek even before I got it out of the store.
I was also going by the majority here as to which stick was a better value in the long run, majority seemed to prefer the Saitek among a couple other brands, over Logitec.
It's all about personal preference, and as I said in my original post, my comparison opinions among the two sticks were mine alone.
Enjoy playing with your stick.

Cheers.

jayhall0315
05-24-2008, 05:25 PM
Personally I use the CH Products Fighterstick/Pro Throttle/Pro Pedals setup and while they dont look good and are expensive; they are built like a tank and boy are they smooth and accurate. Very, very high quality stuff.

Ohh, and if you are going to buy game equipment, I have never found a place cheaper than www.pricegrabber.com (http://www.pricegrabber.com) I never buy at brick and mortar stores. Even though I dont use it, the X52 from Saitek was $149.99 at Best Buy here in North America, but you can find it at pricegrabber for about $85 with no tax or fees.

Jay

Sub_Boy
05-24-2008, 05:44 PM
Originally posted by jayhall0315:
Personally I use the CH Products Fighterstick/Pro Throttle/Pro Pedals setup and while they dont look good and are expensive; they are built like a tank and boy are they smooth and accurate. Very, very high quality stuff.

Ohh, and if you are going to buy game equipment, I have never found a place cheaper than www.pricegrabber.com (http://www.pricegrabber.com) I never buy at brick and mortar stores. Even though I dont use it, the X52 from Saitek was $149.99 at Best Buy here in North America, but you can find it at pricegrabber for about $85 with no tax or fees.

Jay

Yea Jay the Logitec 3D Pro was about forty dollars more than the Saitek Aviator, but price wasn't a factor in deciding to keep the Saitek, I just thought over all it performed better, and was better quality.

Cheers.

DKoor
05-24-2008, 09:40 PM
I have Saitek EVO for years... I luv it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/inlove.gif .

dirkpit7
05-25-2008, 03:49 AM
ytareh:
The Logitech's Throttle IS behind the stick (ASSuming you use your own 'behind ' as a reference point)...



Originally posted by Sub_Boy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dirkpit7:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Con's, I personally preferred Logitecs throttle position behind stick as I find having to reach/strech my left hand in front of the stick in close combat awkward.

I presume you're talking about Logitech Exterme 3D Pro, is that correct?

If so, have you confused the throttle placements here? Because the Extreme 3D Pro has throttle in front and Aviator behind.

Otherwise a good review. I have currently a strong temptation to buy the Aviator to use it with the Saitek throttle quadrant (even though I have X52 Pro!) I think this would be somewhat more relistic for old WW2 planes. (Yes, I am crazy! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif) The lack of trim wheels in such set-up is concerning me, though. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I guess it depends on how you look at it, and what you determine is the front, and the behind, forgetting the base, and all the other buttons on it EXCEPT the throttle controls of the Saitek flightstick, and useing it in its proper position,I would consider the throttle controls to be in front of the stick,and if I were to turn the stick completly around with the throttles closest to me, well the throttles would be in a great spot, but every thing else wouldn't making flying very hazerdous and backwards, therfore thats why I came to my front and behind conclusions.
In any event no matter which way you see it, the throttles are useable but still awkward.

Cheers. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I thought this again and I see what you mean. I was thinking from my point of view, when the throttles are on the other side of the stick, thus I said behind. Can be seen either way, really.

I have used the Logitech too. I very much liked the feel of the stick, it was quite 'tight'. How does the Aviator compare in this regard?
Overall I would still see Aviator having a huge edge in that it's higly programmable and has more buttons and switches.


DKoor:
I have Saitek EVO for years... I luv it .

Have ever thought needing more axis for prop pitch, trim etc? Because I think Saitek Pro Flight Throttle Quadrant would be excellent addition for any single stick (non-HOTAS) configuration.
Would result in 'poor man's HOTAS'. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://www.saitek.com/uk/prod/quad.htm

Add two (or better still, three) trim wheels and it would be perfect!

M_Gunz
05-25-2008, 04:37 AM
I had a 3D Pro and even used lightly the cheap POS wore out loose pretty quick.
Why bother cleaning the pots when the mechanism is gone wobbly?

All it did for me was get me to spend on a better stick on sale for 2x as much as the Logicrap.

Before that I had an M$ Sidewinder 3D that just would not run on my newer hardware but not a
thing mechanically wrong with it. I gave it away to a friend still using old hardware.

Sub_Boy
05-25-2008, 08:32 AM
Originally posted by dirkpit7:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">ytareh:
The Logitech's Throttle IS behind the stick (ASSuming you use your own 'behind ' as a reference point)...



Originally posted by Sub_Boy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dirkpit7:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Con's, I personally preferred Logitecs throttle position behind stick as I find having to reach/strech my left hand in front of the stick in close combat awkward.

I presume you're talking about Logitech Exterme 3D Pro, is that correct?

If so, have you confused the throttle placements here? Because the Extreme 3D Pro has throttle in front and Aviator behind.

Otherwise a good review. I have currently a strong temptation to buy the Aviator to use it with the Saitek throttle quadrant (even though I have X52 Pro!) I think this would be somewhat more relistic for old WW2 planes. (Yes, I am crazy! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif) The lack of trim wheels in such set-up is concerning me, though. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I guess it depends on how you look at it, and what you determine is the front, and the behind, forgetting the base, and all the other buttons on it EXCEPT the throttle controls of the Saitek flightstick, and useing it in its proper position,I would consider the throttle controls to be in front of the stick,and if I were to turn the stick completly around with the throttles closest to me, well the throttles would be in a great spot, but every thing else wouldn't making flying very hazerdous and backwards, therfore thats why I came to my front and behind conclusions.
In any event no matter which way you see it, the throttles are useable but still awkward.

Cheers. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I thought this again and I see what you mean. I was thinking from my point of view, when the throttles are on the other side of the stick, thus I said behind. Can be seen either way, really.

I have used the Logitech too. I very much liked the feel of the stick, it was quite 'tight'. How does the Aviator compare in this regard?
Overall I would still see Aviator having a huge edge in that it's higly programmable and has more buttons and switches.


DKoor:
I have Saitek EVO for years... I luv it .

Have ever thought needing more axis for prop pitch, trim etc? Because I think Saitek Pro Flight Throttle Quadrant would be excellent addition for any single stick (non-HOTAS) configuration.
Would result in 'poor man's HOTAS'. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://www.saitek.com/uk/prod/quad.htm

Add two (or better still, three) trim wheels and it would be perfect! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well Dirkpit7, before I bought the saitek I was useing my logitec Attack 3 for years, a cheap one I know, plug and play, no set up software with it I can remember, but personnally I thought it flew tighter, and less erreatic than the much more costly Logitec 3D Pro, but as with the 3D Pro, I didn't like the side placed buttons, and of course it didn't have the stick "twist" feature the 3D Pro has.
Used it for years with the couple of CFS sims I have, worked fine but lacked features.
Buying the Saitek was certainly a step up, especially over the Attack 3.
So in the end feature VS feature, performance, and price comparisons between the three, I will stick with the middle costing Saitek.

Cheers.

dirkpit7
05-25-2008, 01:02 PM
Originally posted by Sub_Boy:
Well Dirkpit7, before I bought the saitek I was useing my logitec Attack 3 for years, a cheap one I know, plug and play, no set up software with it I can remember, but personnally I thought it flew tighter, and less erreatic than the much more costly Logitec 3D Pro, but as with the 3D Pro, I didn't like the side placed buttons, and of course it didn't have the stick "twist" feature the 3D Pro has.
Used it for years with the couple of CFS sims I have, worked fine but lacked features.
Buying the Saitek was certainly a step up, especially over the Attack 3.
So in the end feature VS feature, performance, and price comparisons between the three, I will stick with the middle costing Saitek.

Cheers.

That's pretty much what I would expect to hear when comparing Logitech and Saitek. And I'm glad to hear you're content with your stick because as I said before I've also been thinking of buying the Aviator.

But how would you, having tried both the Extreme 3D and Aviator, compare the movement resistance of those sticks? Is the Aviator much more loose?

Sub_Boy
05-26-2008, 11:32 AM
What I found dirkpit7 between the three, attack 3, 3D pro, and saitek aviator the attack 3 was the most tight stick wise followed by the aviator than 3D pro.

Cheers.

dirkpit7
05-26-2008, 01:26 PM
All right.

Thank you http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

micksaf
05-29-2008, 01:37 PM
... what about a KG13 and 109 throttle replica ??

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g157/micksaf/1_4.jpg

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g157/micksaf/1_8.jpg

http://www.valiant-studio.eu/tarmac/html/fr/hangar.php

PanzerAce
05-29-2008, 01:59 PM
Personally, I'm going to be ordering a Saitek X52 either today or tomorrow, since I've been burned once by logitech with joysticks, and from what I've read, I shouldn't expect them to be any better these days.


edit: While price grabber has the X52 for 87.01, the shipping kicks that up to just under 100 bucks, but Amazon has the X52 for 88.99 with free shipping

Urufu_Shinjiro
05-29-2008, 02:11 PM
Originally posted by PanzerAce:
Personally, I'm going to be ordering a Saitek X52 either today or tomorrow, since I've been burned once by logitech with joysticks, and from what I've read, I shouldn't expect them to be any better these days.


edit: While price grabber has the X52 for 87.01, the shipping kicks that up to just under 100 bucks, but Amazon has the X52 for 88.99 with free shipping

If in the US look here for $69.95! http://saitekusa.stores.yahoo.net/recprod.html

PanzerAce
05-30-2008, 01:04 AM
Originally posted by Urufu_Shinjiro:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PanzerAce:
Personally, I'm going to be ordering a Saitek X52 either today or tomorrow, since I've been burned once by logitech with joysticks, and from what I've read, I shouldn't expect them to be any better these days.


edit: While price grabber has the X52 for 87.01, the shipping kicks that up to just under 100 bucks, but Amazon has the X52 for 88.99 with free shipping

If in the US look here for $69.95! http://saitekusa.stores.yahoo.net/recprod.html </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Except my 20$ gift certificate to amazon will get the X52 to me for 69 bucks delivered. You'd be hard pressed to find that kind of deal anywhere http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

TheFamilyMan
05-30-2008, 11:25 AM
Originally posted by PanzerAce:
Except my 20$ gift certificate to amazon will get the X52 to me for 69 bucks delivered. You'd be hard pressed to find that kind of deal anywhere http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif If you have the extra cash, I recommend the X52 Pro. It's centering mechanism is stiffer (the X52's is soooo loose), the rotaries and hats are higher quality, and the MFD screen can display interesting things (well, maybe someday). I returned my X52 after a few days of ownership and got the Pro for the above reasons and have no regrets. As an aside, I just got my first set of pedals, also saitek. Now I'm climbing that rudder learning-curve again...ugh...thank god for that twist lockout.

PanzerAce
05-30-2008, 06:15 PM
Originally posted by TheFamilyMan:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PanzerAce:
Except my 20$ gift certificate to amazon will get the X52 to me for 69 bucks delivered. You'd be hard pressed to find that kind of deal anywhere http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif If you have the extra cash, I recommend the X52 Pro. It's centering mechanism is stiffer (the X52's is soooo loose), the rotaries and hats are higher quality, and the MFD screen can display interesting things (well, maybe someday). I returned my X52 after a few days of ownership and got the Pro for the above reasons and have no regrets. As an aside, I just got my first set of pedals, also saitek. Now I'm climbing that rudder learning-curve again...ugh...thank god for that twist lockout. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is it really worth double the price? At that point, I might as well take a look at the CH stuff as well....

And to be entirely honest, I don't need to be able to switch control scheme setups in mid flight, nor do I need any extra displays or lights.

Metatron_123
05-30-2008, 06:39 PM
Thrustmaster is pretty good too.

PanzerAce
05-30-2008, 06:46 PM
Is the TM a twist rudder or not? That right now is the biggest reason I'm not looking at CH, since I don't feel like shelling out more for rudders that I am going to have to move every single time I sit down to do something OTHER than play IL2.

the X52/X52 Pro seems to be the best choice so far :/

Anyone have personal experience for why I SHOULDN'T get one of those?

dirkpit7
05-31-2008, 08:30 AM
I think that the biggest drawback of the X52 Pro joystick is that the twist axis is too stiff. Sometimes it's even hard to use. I have missed a shooting chance many times because of this. I'm not sure if the X52 has this problem, though.

Pitch and roll axis, on the other hand, are too loose. But this less of a problem, I got used to it quickly.

TheFamilyMan
06-01-2008, 09:27 AM
Originally posted by PanzerAce:
Is it really worth double the price? At that point, I might as well take a look at the CH stuff as well....

And to be entirely honest, I don't need to be able to switch control scheme setups in mid flight, nor do I need any extra displays or lights. At the price you can get the X52, that's a hard call. My experience with the X52 was dismal but I paid about $100 for it and was able to get the X52 Pro for about $145. I hope your experience with the X52 is better than the one I had. Enjoy!

FatCat_99
06-01-2008, 10:32 AM
I used two Logitech 3Dpro so far and one Saitek Aviator.

Logitech is by far better stick for competitive flying. Saitek is good for offline campaigns against AI. Toggle switches are fun but for doing the job online Logitech is better choice.

Better responsiveness and control harmony wins it for Logitech.

FC

Airmail109
06-01-2008, 11:25 AM
Get rudder pedals, when you position them correctly they take up very little room under the desk if they are the CH pair.

PanzerAce
06-01-2008, 12:55 PM
Originally posted by Aimail101:
Get rudder pedals, when you position them correctly they take up very little room under the desk if they are the CH pair.

I don't have much room under the desk period, and generally my feet rest up against one of my surge protectors, and I can't move it....I guess I'll have to keep looking.


Oh, and FatCat_99, I will NEVER buy another logitech stick. I had an Extreme 3D Pro at one point, and while I loved the control setup and feel, the peice of Sh*t wouldn't, to borrow a shooting term, hold its zero. Going into the configuration I could watch, while nothing was touching the stick, the computer percieved input wandering over to the left of the stick. Logitech CS sucked the big one, and eventually I just gave up.

Unless you can somehow convince me that the quality is there these days, I will not be buying anything from logitech.