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MB_Avro_UK
11-08-2007, 02:21 PM
Hi,

By accident, I stumbled across this aircraft yesterday. I'm not suggesting that I tripped over it on the way to the kitchen.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

It was powered by six Diesel engines.

http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/bv222.html

Was originally designed for Lufthansa.

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

Choctaw111
11-08-2007, 02:29 PM
I had the pleasure of meeting with Captain Urban Drew a few years back. He destroyed one of those parked in the water by strafing it. He is also the only pilot to be credited with 2 Me262 victories in one mission. He had a total of 6 aerial victories during the war and received a belated Air Force Cross (in lieu of the Army's Distinguished Service Cross) for shooting down the two jets.

Here is a painting done of him strafing the 222. I own this print which he signed for me. I will have to get a photo of it and post it here.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/PublicPhotoAccount2/Abigvictory.jpg

HuninMunin
11-08-2007, 02:46 PM
Massive she is, isn't she?
vpMedia offers a great hack of her for the Emily.

berg417448
11-08-2007, 02:47 PM
Interestingly enough...it is now believed that he actually destroyed a Bv-238 instead of a BV-222:



"The sole completed Bv 238 was strafed and sunk while docked on Schaal Lake in September, 1944 by three P-51 Mustang's of the 361st Fighter Group. Named "Detroit Miss," the lead Mustang was piloted by WWII ace Lt. Urban "Ben" Drew. This represents the largest single aircraft to be destroyed during the war.



Lt. Drew was told after the raid that he had destroyed a BV 222 Wiking (another large flying boat). He continued to believe this was the case until he was contacted by the BBC in 1974 for a documentary, and told that their research had determined that the aircraft he destroyed was actually the BV 238, undergoing flight tests at the seaplane base at Schaal Lake."

http://greyfalcon.us/restored/Nazi%20leaders.htm

MB_Avro_UK
11-08-2007, 02:59 PM
Originally posted by HuninMunin:
Massive she is, isn't she?
vpMedia offers a great hack of her for the Emily.

Yes..a wingspan of 151 feet (46 metres)!!

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

HuninMunin
11-08-2007, 03:19 PM
Luftarchiv (http://www.luftarchiv.de/) states a crew of 11 + 110 passengers.
Awesome plane, but not as sexy (http://www.luftarchiv.de/flugzeuge/dornier/do26_3.jpg) as the Do 26 (http://www.luftarchiv.de/flugzeuge/dornier/do_26.jpg) or the PBY in my eyes.

polak5
11-08-2007, 03:34 PM
Originally posted by Choctaw111:
I had the pleasure of meeting with Captain Urban Drew a few years back. He destroyed one of those parked in the water by strafing it. He is also the only pilot to be credited with 2 Me262 victories in one mission. He had a total of 6 aerial victories during the war and received a belated Air Force Cross (in lieu of the Army's Distinguished Service Cross) for shooting down the two jets.

Here is a painting done of him strafing the 222. I own this print which he signed for me. I will have to get a photo of it and post it here.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/PublicPhotoAccount2/Abigvictory.jpg

nice story http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Plunkertx
11-08-2007, 03:40 PM
There's color film of them strafing it. I've seen it. Amazing.

smokincrater
11-08-2007, 03:47 PM
Other very impressive aircraft was the Amerkia Bombers. The Me-264 with six radial engines made a test flight that took it within an hours flying time of New York. Very much a similar looking aircraft to the B-29(after all they had the same mission and design brief).

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2007, 03:59 PM
Originally posted by Choctaw111:
I had the pleasure of meeting with Captain Urban Drew a few years back. He destroyed one of those parked in the water by strafing it. He is also the only pilot to be credited with 2 Me262 victories in one mission. He had a total of 6 aerial victories during the war and received a belated Air Force Cross (in lieu of the Army's Distinguished Service Cross) for shooting down the two jets.

Here is a painting done of him strafing the 222. I own this print which he signed for me. I will have to get a photo of it and post it here.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/PublicPhotoAccount2/Abigvictory.jpg

Wow. He's one of my aviation heroes

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/Recovered_JPEG_977.jpg

Kurfurst__
11-08-2007, 04:02 PM
'The Flying Wiking'. Always loved that aircraft, it just looks... right.

berg417448
11-08-2007, 04:09 PM
Originally posted by smokincrater:
Other very impressive aircraft was the Amerkia Bombers. The Me-264 with six radial engines made a test flight that took it within an hours flying time of New York. Very much a similar looking aircraft to the B-29(after all they had the same mission and design brief).

The Ju 390 (some sources say Ju-290) is the airplane that is supposed to have made that flight near the coast of the USA not the Me-264. This flight apparently remains controversial with some sources saying that it happened and other sources saying that it did not happen.

http://www.kg200.org/historyac2.html

Choctaw111
11-08-2007, 04:50 PM
Originally posted by BBB462cid:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Choctaw111:
I had the pleasure of meeting with Captain Urban Drew a few years back. He destroyed one of those parked in the water by strafing it. He is also the only pilot to be credited with 2 Me262 victories in one mission. He had a total of 6 aerial victories during the war and received a belated Air Force Cross (in lieu of the Army's Distinguished Service Cross) for shooting down the two jets.

Here is a painting done of him strafing the 222. I own this print which he signed for me. I will have to get a photo of it and post it here.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/PublicPhotoAccount2/Abigvictory.jpg

Wow. He's one of my aviation heroes

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/Recovered_JPEG_977.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I will definitely have to post the stuff I have from him now. I even have some photos of he and I together. Now I have to find them.

Choctaw111
11-08-2007, 05:46 PM
Here is what I have from Urban Drew (that I found so far). These are three prints that I had him sign for me when we met. They were hanging on the wall of my former home. When I moved several years ago, the glass on one of them cracked. I never did get to hanging them back up again http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif but I did get them back out of my garage just to photograph them for this thread. I hope you enjoy them.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/PublicPhotoAccount2/UrbanDrew.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/PublicPhotoAccount2/ABigVictory-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/PublicPhotoAccount2/GunfightOverAchmer.jpg
The caption here reads, "1st LT. Urban L. ("Ben") Drew, flying his P-51D "Detroit Miss" of the 361st Fighter Group, was the first and only Allied pilot to down two Me-262 jet fighters in one day when he caught them on takeoff from Achmer Aerodrome on October 7, 1944. Lt. Drew Received a belated Air Force Cross (in lieu of a Distinguished Service Cross) on May 12, 1983, for his feat.

What it does not say, and what Ben Drew told me is that someone in the Air Force was going through old records and came across his claim of shooting down the two jets. Not to take such a claim lightly, the Air Force then sent someone to go out and verify the claim. Amazingly, the Air Force found someone in Germany who witnessed a yellow nosed Mustang scoring those two victories on the jets in just the way Ben described and then was awarded his medal.

berg417448
11-08-2007, 05:49 PM
According to this is was Georg-Peter Eder who confirmed the two Me-262s:

"More than 40 years later, an Air Force clerk noticed Drew's claim for two Me 262 victories on the same mission. She contacted a custodian of German war records, who knew former Luftwaffe pilots who might be able to shed light on the claim. Georg-Peter Eder had been set to lead the Me 262s of JG 7 that day, but when his aircraft had problems taking off the two-ill-fated pilots took off to lead JG 7. Eder says he saw a yellow-nosed P-51 dive on the Me 262s and shoot them down. Eder couldn't read "Detroit Miss" on the nose of the "Mustang", but his account was sufficient to confirm Drew's two Me 262 victories."

http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/drew/drew.htm

Choctaw111
11-08-2007, 05:54 PM
It has been many years since I have talked to Ben. I do not even know if he is still living. What a great story it is and such a privilege to have met with him.

M_Gunz
11-08-2007, 05:58 PM
LOL, I take a big liberty in translating -- tongue in cheek,

so this flying boat was made by the Flying Hamburger Company? Oh, the possibilities!

flyingloon
11-09-2007, 02:57 AM
Originally posted by berg417448:
Lt. Drew was told after the raid that he had destroyed a BV 222 Wiking (another large flying boat). He continued to believe this was the case until he was contacted by the BBC in 1974 for a documentary, and told that their research had determined that the aircraft he destroyed was actually the BV 238, undergoing flight tests at the seaplane base at Schaal Lake."

http://greyfalcon.us/restored/Nazi%20leaders.htm

now this is interesting. i recently got my hands on a clipping from pilot magazine 73/74 (slips my mind at the mo) that refers to my girlfriends grandpa, apparently he flew with 2nd TAF, 263 squadron i think (first time i've seen any squadron info, we knew he flew spits and typoons during the war, and have seen some of the souvenirs) and they were trying to trace pilots involved in an antishipping mission towards the end of the war. wonder if this is the same documentary they made, and where i could get my hands on it...

woofiedog
11-09-2007, 03:56 AM
Great story.

Here is a video clip of the Blohm Voss BV 238 II...

Blohm Voss BV 238 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVIaOSQBFAE)

Choctaw111
11-09-2007, 10:19 AM
Originally posted by woofiedog:
Great story.

Here is a video clip of the Blohm Voss BV 238 II...

Blohm Voss BV 238 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVIaOSQBFAE)

That thing is impressive.

woofiedog
11-09-2007, 11:56 AM
A little more info on the Blohm Voss 238 seaplane...

http://www.hansajet.de/bilder/habvhfb/bv222kran-2.jpg

The Sad Story of the Blohm & Voss BV-238 Super Seaplane

Type: World's Largest Seaplane
Specific Features: For most people, seaplanes do not represent one of the sexier aspects of World War II aviation. All the same, the floating airplane reached its utilitarian peak during the Second World War. The Americans used them heavily as naval spotting aircraft and the Germans were interested in them for their usefulness as long range transports that could theoretically be refueled at sea. The Blohm & Voss BV-238 was a development from the company's successful BV-222 seaplane program, of which 30 aircraft had been built. The Germans wanted a seaplane with more carrying capacity, better armament, and greater speed. The result was the behemoth BV-238, which was the largest seaplane built during World War II and was only eclipsed later by the H-4 Hercules and a few Soviet oddball seaplanes.

The BV-238 was only about 25% larger than the BV-222, but it sported six Daimler Benz engines capable of producing almost twice the thrust of its predecessor. This was necessary because the BV-238 could carry 22 tons of cargo and, fully loaded, was twice as heavy as the BV-222. These six engines were capable of bringing the BV-238 up to a top speed of some 255 miles per hour and test trials of the only prototype completed reflected a much improved maneuverability over the BV-222. More impressive still, the BV-238 was capable of remaining airborne with three of its six engines destroyed, even if all three were on the same side.

An interesting aspect of the BV-238 is that even though it sported a ten man crew it had twelve weapon mounts ranging from a proposed nose turret to eight or more side firing points along the fuselage. I guess the crew was either expected to run from gun to gun firing them as necessary or it would rely on people riding along in the plane to shoot most of the guns. The BV-238 also included a large front loading cargo hatch and a double-decker interior, allowing it to carry very large payloads that smaller planes would not be able to handle even if they had the thrust capacity.

History: The story of the Blohm & Voss BV-238 is one of tragedy. The Luftwaffe awarded a contract to Blohm & Voss in 1941 to develop a new and larger seaplane with the capabilities previously mentioned. The prototype was completed in August of 1943 and took its maiden flight soon after that. This and subsequent test flights demonstrated that the BV-238 was one sexy airplane. It handled wonderfully, was speedy for an aircraft of its immense size, and had a promising future in a military in need of support and resupply around the world. One problem; Germany was not in need of support and resupply around the world. Well, it was, but that was the least of its problems. What Germany needed in August of 1943 was the ten or more fighter aircraft the construction of each BV-238 would represent.

An order was issued in 1943 diverting resources from aircraft like the BV-238 to an increased focus on fighter production. Many innovative aircraft designs died on the vine at this point, but the BV-238 managed to cling tenaciously to life. Although a trial run was cancelled, work continued slowly on a second prototype, and the operational prototype was viewed as a curiosity that might just be useful at some point. The prototype was flown to Lake Schaal near Hamburg and was ordered to be kept at a constant state of readiness. It sat there on the lake, well camouflaged, crewed, maintained, and waiting to be ordered on some tremendous and heroic mission to save the Reich.

The Batphone remained silent, and as the losing air war progressed it became apparent that the BV-238 would be shot to pieces minutes after it took flight. The jet age dawned over the skies of Germany, the Nazi regime began to crumble apart under the weight of the Allied assaults from three directions, and still the BV-238 remained ready at Lake Schaal. Like an eager puppy. A giant, six-engine, fascist, heavily-armed, flying, eager puppy.

On April 24th, scarcely two weeks before the end of the war in Europe, US fighter bombers operating in the region spotted the well concealed BV-238 and attacked. There was no great battle for the plane. It sat motionless on Lake Schaal, absorbing pass after pass after pass from the US aircraft. Finally, in danger of running out of ammunition from their repeated strafing runs, the US aircraft watched as the hole-riddled carcass of the BV-238 began to sink into the lake. Only a few days later the facility at Lake Schaal was overrun by the Western Allies and the incomplete prototype (not much more than a shell) of the BV-238 V2 was captured.

XyZspineZyX
11-09-2007, 12:01 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I think I might have some more Urban Drew pics. I can't access photobucket from work; will look when I get home

Pretty sure I have an electropnic copy of a photo of him in his cockpit, and the pic is called "Two for Drew"

XyZspineZyX
11-10-2007, 06:09 AM
OK-

Here's Urban Drew achieving a victory while at the controls of a plane not "assigned" to him:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/Recovered_JPEG_1212.jpg

Publicity photo of Drew in the cockpit indicating how many jets he got in one mission

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/Recovered_JPEG_1568.jpg

woofiedog
11-10-2007, 07:04 AM
Mint photo's & picture...

Urban Drew's Two Me 262 Victories. (http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/drew/drew.htm)

<span class="ev_code_YELLOW"> "Drew asked himself, "Is this guy better than you? I had to put it out of my mind immediately, because if you don't, the wrong mother's son is going to come home that night."

Spiraling closer to the ground, Drew kept some altitude on the Messerschmitt, until the German pulled out. The G forcesin the Lufbery (about 7Gs) had jammed five of his six guns" </span>


Blohm & Voss BV222

The Blohm & Voss BV222 sea plane had a range of approximately 3,800 miles, well within flying distance from Travemünde (on Germany's northern Baltic coast) to the eastern coast of Greenland.

A number of U-boats operated in Greenland waters and as the giant flying boats used 2-stroke diesel engines refueling from U-boat was perfectly feasible. Also there are upwellings of warm water around Greenland which stay ice free year round suitable for water landings.

Furthermore Enigma signals decoded at Bletchley Park revealed that the Abwehr (German secret service) sailing vessel Santa Barbara was positioned in the mouth of the Orinoco River.

Santa Barbara was the former French Lobster sailing yawl Passim from the Bay of Biscay and had done several trips to Argentina during the war. It is perhaps even possible that a BV222 could reach the Orinocco River directly from a Bavarian lake.

http://greyfalcon.us/pictures/bv222.jpg

Blohm Und Voss Bv222 "Wiking" (http://www.simviation.com/fsdcbainbv222.htm)

http://www.geocities.com/h_zoeller/jumo207_a2.jpg

Jumo 207 (http://www.geocities.com/hjunkers/ju_jumo207_a1.htm)

polak5
11-10-2007, 09:44 AM
Originally posted by woofiedog:
Great story.

Here is a video clip of the Blohm Voss BV 238 II...

Blohm Voss BV 238 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVIaOSQBFAE)

That bird looks like a hybrid monster. Very Nice . http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif
watch this vid