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faustnik
01-02-2004, 06:28 PM
I was all over the overmodeled P-39 in earlier versions of FB, but in 1.21 it has been brought back closer to reality. Exactly were is it now overmodeled?

I realize their are some questions on roll rate, but, so far no evidence on the issue has been produced. Low altitude climb seems correct as is turn rate. Is it the controversial stall-spin issue that cuases the P-39 to retain the NOOB label?

If you have any real evidence as to the P-39 being overmodeled I'd love to see it. Otherwise, don't claim overmodeling the next time a Cobra bites you in the a$$.

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faustnik
01-02-2004, 06:28 PM
I was all over the overmodeled P-39 in earlier versions of FB, but in 1.21 it has been brought back closer to reality. Exactly were is it now overmodeled?

I realize their are some questions on roll rate, but, so far no evidence on the issue has been produced. Low altitude climb seems correct as is turn rate. Is it the controversial stall-spin issue that cuases the P-39 to retain the NOOB label?

If you have any real evidence as to the P-39 being overmodeled I'd love to see it. Otherwise, don't claim overmodeling the next time a Cobra bites you in the a$$.

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Platypus_1.JaVA
01-02-2004, 06:30 PM
It is considered a NooB plane by those who flew it in the original Il-2. The P-39 in Il-2 1.0 was really hard to stay in the air because of the spin issue. A good plane for learning to detect stalls early http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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2 For with what judgment ye judge,
ye shall be judged: and with what
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to you again.

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arcadeace
01-02-2004, 06:34 PM
I can't recall anyone else emphasizing the change in patch versions. I completely agree with you. I enjoy flying it more now because it is NOT a newbie plane.

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_222_1073065682.jpg

faustnik
01-02-2004, 06:46 PM
I don't mean to have an attitude but, I have flown in DF servers the last couple days and heard a lot of whining. I fly LW and realize my a/c has limitations. If a LW pilot is going to fly around in circles on the deck with Soviet a/c he is going to get killed. If a 109G2 outclimbs your P-40 it is supposed to. 1.21 has the best relative FMs so far of any FB version. If you think fifferent, put up or shut up! Lets see those charts!

I bring up the P-39 because I recently had to go red to even out a DF server and chose the old Cobra. I got in a fight with a G2 pilot and slowly gained an advantage on him in a looping fight. He instantly started claiming the Cobra was overmodeled and a NOOB plane. He didn't once try to use his speed or climb advantage in the fight. I just don't get it.
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resev
01-02-2004, 07:41 PM
I fly it since day one, if you follow my squad link it will show you that.

I don't even care anymore about those who label planes, in fact i'm so tired of those people, that when i see a thread like that, i just go grab some popcorn, sit back, feet up, and laugh my *** off in the process of seeing who complains the most, and the reasons stated by them, but i almost never reply, i prefer to lurk trough the thread, unsuspected.
Then i go back to the big blue in search of those fnebtards in specific, so i show them what the n00b plane can realy do.

As the wiseman said: "Revenge is the sweetest thing, next to p***y", and right he is.

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VW-IceFire
01-02-2004, 08:35 PM
I've got the same opinion...the P-39 did have quite an advantage before but it really really feels like its center of gravity is back in the middle rather than in the forward section - like never before. Its a good fighter but only low and if you get yourself into a nasty stall its a tough one to get out of.

No longer the easy plane it once was.

- IceFire
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Vipez-
01-02-2004, 08:36 PM
Think one of the reason is the weapons.. when you fly cobra its so easy to shoot even at 500 meters to 109 and blow them to pieces.. while in 109 you have to be L337, and shoot right next to the guy.. .]


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Korolov
01-02-2004, 08:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vipez-
Think one of the reason is the weapons.. when you fly cobra its so easy to shoot even at 500 meters to 109 and blow them to pieces.. while in 109 you have to be L337, and shoot right next to the guy.. .]
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I disagree. I've had 109s fly away from several direct 37mm hits! Whereas if you use the mk108 in the late 109s, it ain't going home.

The myth that the P-39 was never good appears to be going on...

Up at altitude, especially above 15,000ft, this plane just blows. Below that and it'll wipe the floor with anything that tries to turn fight it.

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rick_475
01-02-2004, 09:29 PM
In time of war there's no "Noob" planes, your life depends on it. Only VERY stupid people use words like "Noob".

Go tell that to a WW2 pilot : Hey you used a Noob plane!! what honor did you have to kill 20 planes in 1944?

Old_Canuck
01-02-2004, 10:58 PM
P-39 is one of my favorites. I've saved a spin QMB where I regularly throw it into a flatspin. Found a quote from at least one WWII veteran online who said that it was impossible to recover from a flatspin. Read some combat reports of a P-39 squadron and many of the pilots were either killed in spins or bailed out when they couldn't recover.

Haven't managed it in FB yet except for one time when it was carrying a bomb. Still took over 8000 meters to recover.

Next procedure to attempt in flatspin recovery is to pump the elevator up and down to try and start an oscillation so it can pick up speed (hopefully). Otherwise, when the speed is pegged at 40kph and it's in a flatspin you might as well bail ... if you can.

OC

"You don't stop playing because you grow old, you grow old because you stop playing."

Diese_ist_shais
01-02-2004, 11:04 PM
I agree.

I mainly use the P-39 for online Kamakazi runs. You'll find me at a game room called War-Clouds#1. I'm known as KatahuAkata in that room.

I use the plane for that purpose because of its speed and bomb load.

I never did try it as a fighter. I'll give it a try.

I rarely used it because it was quiet. :P My ears are used to hearing the ROARING sounds of a powerful engine. But since the P-39 has the engine behind the cokpit, it's quite, and therefore I miss the loud sounds. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Each fighter has it's own character. Some are slow but highly manuverable. Some are fast but are pathetic at turns. Some are in between. It's up to you to figure out which plane is right for dogfights.

Not only that, you have to know that aircraft's limitations.

AFJ_Locust
01-02-2004, 11:25 PM
Hey Foust......!!!!

P39 has never been a noob plane...

even when it was slightly overmodled it still wasent a noob plane imo...

I still fly her now & then & its a great ride.

I much prefer the dora now that my favorite ac in this sim @ this time.

Salute Faust !!!!!!!!

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BM357_Raven
01-02-2004, 11:35 PM
P-39 is harder now? I'll have to go try it.. haven't touched it since the P-51 came out. Gotta go check it out..

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georgeo76
01-03-2004, 12:29 AM
It's not a n00b plane. I can name a dozen other AC that are easier to fly and easier to score kills w/.

The cobra has some of the least effective armament in the game. I know everyone thinks that the 37mm is a "kill enemy" button, but you ought to try and shoot something w/ it. I fly the cobra alot... and I think it's fair to say I'm a pretty good using it, and I'll tell you, I'm not effective w/ the 37mm until I'm @ 50m or less. It only fires 3 rounds/sec, so spray and prey won't work, cuz if you hold the trigger down a 747 can weave back and forth through those shells.

The two nose .50 are 80% of what you have to work w/ (I know the N and early Q have wing guns, but they are in-effective. You can score good hits w/ the nose or the wing guns, but rarely both)

The Cobra sux in a dive. The elevator gets sticky around 450km/hr and believe me, the FW pilots know that.

I know it's harder to spin than the IL2 version, but it's no easier to recover from. And if you NEVER depart w/ the cobra then you ain't flying it properly, cuz it preforms best right on the edge of that lethal stall.

The Cobra needs exacting energy management. It's phenomenal turn rate only exists in a narrow speed margin, and any faster you'll not be able to move the elevator properly, and too slow and you'll turn remarkably slowly. It's best used w/ looping turns, where you can tighten and loosen the turn based on your current energy state.

The Cobra's wings are exceedingly vulnerable. Even the slightest damage to the wing results in a FUBAR airfoil, and loss of 60% of your maneuverability. Add to that the ever-leaking fuel tanks and even minor damage to the wings means a harrowing RTB, or death.

The Engine of the Cobra is vulnerable due to it's position. Zero defection shots from dead six can be shrugged off most AC even the 109 can absorb shells in the rear. But not the '39. Shots in the engine immediately result in a sputtering engine coughing smoke. If that smoke is thick and black, then the pilot better jump, cuz it's only a matter of time before the whole bird explodes.

If you think the Cobra is a n00b plane, then obviously you've spent more time being shot down by them than you have actually flying them.

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Willey
01-03-2004, 07:06 AM
The 39 is a special case in that n00b/1337 plane discussion. It's often called n00b plane because it can do something that it shouldn't be able to. But on the other hand it's underestmated by many ppl. They know the US found it shyt - but that's because of the poor high alt performace. Also, better forget about this in FB. I'd just say Ki-84 or Me-262 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.
Fact is that's it's a bit overmodelled in climb rate, as well as in roll rate. But which other plane is not? Not many. The point that makes the 39 such a good climber in FB is that it's climb rate grows for the first 3000m where it should decrease instead. It starts with some 3500ft/min on the deck which looks right. I did some math with those tables found in the Q-1 manual for military power and got around 3300-3500ft/min on the deck for 1420hp. But then while climbing it should steadily decrease which is also visible in the manual. In FB, however, it gets up to 4000ft/min at 3000m and then the climb decreases. So actually it climbs better than a G-6 at 3k - that's why it's "uber". It shouldn't do so. Better don't fight it in the G-6 there if you're alone - or try hard http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. Also noticable is it's lack of high speed stalls. Remeber what Col. Kit Carson said about the FW: "It's tendency to stall at high speeds is comparable to our P-39" or something like that. In FB however it's elevators are quite bricky (like the FW's in Il-2 and FB 1.0 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif). So as it's "overmodelled" in beeing unable to stall at 400kph IAS, it's "undermodelled" at the same time in elevator effectiveness.

At least it's beatable. In 1.11 it was even better in climb than now. '42 you'll have a G-2 which climbs better. '43 take the FW which is a lot faster and climbs similarly well or even a tad better. I think it lost it's "n00byness" while the 109s, especially the G-6 perform better than in 1.11. It's still a plane to watch out for http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. Needs special attention http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. A single 37mm hit can saw your wing off (just if it's the right shell as it also has AP rounds).

blabla0001
01-03-2004, 07:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vipez-:
Think one of the reason is the weapons.. when you fly cobra its so easy to shoot even at 500 meters to 109 and blow them to pieces.. while in 109 you have to be L337, and shoot right next to the guy.. .<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is a joke right?
Have you ever flown the P-39 in this game or what?
The gun due it's slow rate of fire takes a lot of effort to land hits on a small fighter and the current gunsight is not helping much either.
I would rather have the same gunsight on the Hurricane or P-40/51.
I find it a lot easier to destroy planes with the MK108 cannon.
Nine out of ten times I kill a bogey in the first pass with the MK108 when I hit it, and I don't miss that often either, much less then with the 37mm on the P-39.

Osirisx9
01-03-2004, 09:14 AM
S~

Osirisx9
01-03-2004, 09:30 AM
I'm tired of these Whinners complaining out this plane and leaving out the german zero 109G2. Do your peromance figures with full fuel first. Not 25 percent and the aircraft performs like it supposed to.

Osiris_X9

noshens
01-03-2004, 09:41 AM
He probably ment the small caliber guns.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cappadocian_317:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vipez-:
Think one of the reason is the weapons.. when you fly cobra its so easy to shoot even at 500 meters to 109 and blow them to pieces.. while in 109 you have to be L337, and shoot right next to the guy.. .<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is a joke right?
Have you ever flown the P-39 in this game or what?
The gun due it's slow rate of fire takes a lot of effort to land hits on a small fighter and the current gunsight is not helping much either.
I would rather have the same gunsight on the Hurricane or P-40/51.
I find it a lot easier to destroy planes with the MK108 cannon.
Nine out of ten times I kill a bogey in the first pass with the MK108 when I hit it, and I don't miss that often either, much less then with the 37mm on the P-39.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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F19_Ob
01-03-2004, 09:42 AM
It isnt !

The noob saying people use the "noob" word often but seldom give explanations or easily testable comparisons .



The p39 has very good performance when flown on the limit and is the ac most equal to the 109 , due to the fact it also have a few disadvantages (in my opinion).

The p39 is close to equally good to the 109 at BnZ at low altitudes below 2000m .

Only difference is that the bf109 accelerates marginally better initially, but on the other hand it is easier to draw deflection in the p39 and hit a turning target bcause of the better turn, and spray effect of the mg ( a few hits is enough to cripple the 109)
The mgs on the 109 can do damage ,if they hit, but since the turning performance in the 109 is bad, only a few bullets can ever hit, also due to the low rate of fire compared to many allied, so in turning fights they are almost useless ,where the p39's are exellent.

The yaks and La5-7 handles better and also have better visibility so ....its quite silly to try explain it as a noob plane.



And i belive many also forgets the historical aspect of it.
since many say about the yak3 that its overmodeled and it cant be that good against the 109....but the historical testimony shows that the 109 already was antiquated when yak3 entered the scene.

so yak3 beats the 109 in most situations bcause
it was a new fighter with more advantages compared to the 109 wich only the most experienced could use, but still couldnt overcome the yak3.( I havnt seen any historical document say anything else)

So instead of pitting the antiquated bf109 against the new yak3( and fight a loosing battle) U could try it against the La5, then the 109 have possibilities to "work" but still a very tough opponent.



So in my opinion the "noob" calling of some planes is due to the lack of historical knowledge, for example to being unable to understand why the 109 couldnt fight the yak3 on equal terms, (bcause the terms werent equal).

So people who are anoyed when they are shot down by better performance ac means they only get shot down bcause theyre opponents fly easy planes and thus arent the real artists of the skies.

Personally I like the p39 alot but the difficult 109 is my favorite, just because of its difficulty ,wich means also that a great deal of effort and skill is needed to bring any enemy down. (This is my Idea of fun.)
and I just dont belive everybody can cope with being on the disadvantage and get shot down alot when excercising this ac, and they get mad.
so then every plane that downs them becomes noob planes.( to easy to fly )


wonder if the german highcommand sent a protest
when the yak3 came saying
" that plane has too good performance, go back to lagg3 please"

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Recon_609IAP
01-03-2004, 09:56 AM
calling it a noob plane is an attempt by the german propaganda to force Allied pilots to fly i153's - God forbid someone actually shooting down a 109 in a p39...it's a major crush to the German psyche http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

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Vipez-
01-03-2004, 10:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cappadocian_317:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vipez-:
Think one of the reason is the weapons.. when you fly cobra its so easy to shoot even at 500 meters to 109 and blow them to pieces.. while in 109 you have to be L337, and shoot right next to the guy.. .<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is a joke right?
Have you ever flown the P-39 in this game or what?
The gun due it's slow rate of fire takes a lot of effort to land hits on a small fighter and the current gunsight is not helping much either.
I would rather have the same gunsight on the Hurricane or P-40/51.
I find it a lot easier to destroy planes with the MK108 cannon.
Nine out of ten times I kill a bogey in the first pass with the MK108 when I hit it, and I don't miss that often either, much less then with the 37mm on the P-39.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

no Joke.. I was talking about the .303s and .50s on the N-1 and .50s on the Q-1 and Q-10 very easy weapons to handle and they allready tear 109 and 190s apart from great distances.. I usually use convergence of 300 in the Cobra.. while in 109 you have to use below 200 for the MG131 and MG17s and even less for Mk108. If you can't hit with Cobra MGs you should re-visit gunnery school


__________________________


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Kain_TheReaper
01-03-2004, 10:56 AM
I don't know about you, but the handling of this plane is a bit 2 easy... Well, i've never had any problems AGAINST IT! I like the firepower, but as some of you said, it's 2 slow! What i do love is the Me-262a1, i've NEVER had problems in shooting down AI controlled aces on P-39's, but i've had problems with people... Life is never like in games!
One more thing, the P-39 is excellent when used against slow-moving bombers! leave out the NOOB part, it's still a game, it CAN'T be perfect (at least not yet http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif )

SmokeJaguar
01-03-2004, 11:04 AM
I understand where the term n00b plane comes from. In the original Il2 it was a very lethal machine to its pilot. It never took very much to upset it and that was what made it the great plane in Il2. Then patches and updates later and as it is in FB, it is a completly different machine. It is very easy to fly now, can turn with nearly anything and has two types of bite, the tap-tap nibble and the invasive shark bite.

I love the plane and never listen to the types who bandy around n00b like it realy matters.

Let them pretend their opinion matters to those of us who love and continue to enjoy this plane online and off http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>"Nice try captain ambush"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

mllaneza
01-03-2004, 12:08 PM
The MGs on the P-39 are very useful against the 109. I've found a good angle for hitting the fuel tank on the 109, and even .303s can set that afire . Against a 190, save the MG ammo for "later". The .303s will only be useful at angles where you might hit the cockpit, but the .50s can some structural damage on a deflection shot. Even the 37mm need a lucky hit to down a 190 in one shot.

Veteran - Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force. 1993-1951.

faustnik
01-03-2004, 12:56 PM
Not that the annoying whining is limited to the LW side. I have also heard allied pilots crying about the Mk108 which is just as bad.

I can't think of one a/c that is blatantly overmodeled in 1.21, can anyone? If the answer is yes please back it up with fact or don't bother.

The forums are the place to discuss these issues not in HL DF chat as an excuse for getting your butt kicked.

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SmokeJaguar
01-03-2004, 01:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Even the 37mm need a lucky hit to down a 190 in one shot.

Veteran - Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force. 1993-1951.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have a screenshot of a fw190 that died after the 4th 37mm strike. Tough beasts they are http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

You gota watch those Fw drivers too. They can be tricky too many times.

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[This message was edited by SmokeJaguar on Sat January 03 2004 at 12:16 PM.]

faustnik
01-03-2004, 01:12 PM
As to the Cobra specifically, what changed in 1.21:

- Climb rate was decreased to an acceptable range. At low altitude the N and Q models were capable of climb rates in the 3000fpm (source: Americ's Hundred Thousand)

- Energy bleed was increased. The P-39 is no longer capable of infinite loops as in 1.11.

- Stall speed increased from 90 kph to 140 kph.

- Turn rate correct by historical accounts.

What's left:

Roll rate: Open to question, no definitive data presented yet.

Spin Characteristics: ???

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[This message was edited by faustnik on Sat January 03 2004 at 12:36 PM.]

blabla0001
01-03-2004, 01:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vipez-:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cappadocian_317:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vipez-:
Think one of the reason is the weapons.. when you fly cobra its so easy to shoot even at 500 meters to 109 and blow them to pieces.. while in 109 you have to be L337, and shoot right next to the guy.. .<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is a joke right?
Have you ever flown the P-39 in this game or what?
The gun due it's slow rate of fire takes a lot of effort to land hits on a small fighter and the current gunsight is not helping much either.
I would rather have the same gunsight on the Hurricane or P-40/51.
I find it a lot easier to destroy planes with the MK108 cannon.
Nine out of ten times I kill a bogey in the first pass with the MK108 when I hit it, and I don't miss that often either, much less then with the 37mm on the P-39.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

no Joke.. I was talking about the .303s and .50s on the N-1 and .50s on the Q-1 and Q-10 very easy weapons to handle and they allready tear 109 and 190s apart from great distances.. I usually use convergence of 300 in the Cobra.. while in 109 you have to use below 200 for the MG131 and MG17s and even less for Mk108. If you can't hit with Cobra MGs you should re-visit gunnery school<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

500 Meters is well within the effective range of the .50 machine gun so they should be able to tear a 109 to bits at that range.

Since I use B&Z tactics and make snap shot attacks I focus on the 37mm, not the MG's.
Only if there are more like on the Hurricane's and P-40/47/51 they are of much better use.

I also don't use long range "spray and pray" attacks.
The convergence I always use is 228 meters and never fire at ranges beyond that.
I don't like to waste ammo or let them know I am going to attack them when I am too far out.

AFJ_Locust
01-03-2004, 01:40 PM
The word noob is so over used its pathetic...

It used to have some pitance of meaning now its just another insult thrown around by boobs, who get mad every time they get shot down.

P39 is in no shape or form a noob ac... Im sure it was an la7 pilot who told you that http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

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ZG77_Nagual
01-03-2004, 02:11 PM
P39 is my fav - has been since il2 - that and the 190. P63 will be interesting - better in all areas, plus high speed handling http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Probably switch to the p38 then.

tsisqua
01-03-2004, 02:16 PM
The models with the wing mounted guns still stall like a guilty husband.

I love this plane. My favorite way to die.

Tsisqua

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Gibbage1
01-03-2004, 02:21 PM
Last night, I had the longest 37MM hit I have ever had. In the past, it was 860 meters on a He-111. I can peg running FW-190's at 500M on a regular basis. But last night. 3000 meters!!!! No BS! I shot 3 shots and landed 1!!!

OK. i was over a base at 3200 meters, and pointed my nose down to see if someone was there. An enemy FW-190 popped up, I fired 3 shots, and pulled up thinking "I wonder if he will even see those shots" and suddenly I got an aircraft kill! I dipped my wing (I was now at 2500M) and saw the burning wreckage. I felt so bad I appologized http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif WOW! What a luck hit.

But I have a lot of time using the 37MM and have a 30-40% hit ratio and can hit targets from 300-500 meters away with skill. How? Practice! LOTS AND LOTS of it.

But I still dont think its uber.

Its the slowest 1944 aircraft, slowest climbing 1944 aircraft, a well flown 109 can turn in me, the big gun has 31 rounds in it, low rate of fire, and hard as hell to hit with. Its about the hardest AC to become an ace in. Its RARE I see a well flown P-39 online, and its rare I see someone choose a P-39 at all. It runs down like this

60% use 109's.
30% use LA or Yak's

The rest of the 10% use P-39's, 190's I-153's or whatever floats there boat.

If that dosent tell you something, I dont know what will.

x__CRASH__x
01-03-2004, 02:35 PM
I was there last night. Everything Gibbage posted was a lie.


LOL


Seriously, we told our opponents that we wouldn't vulch. But they had two pilots fall out of the match, so we were just screwing around. No one was more surprised than Gib that he landed that 3k shot! We were laughing pretty hard while profusely apologizing! It was pretty funny. Luckily the guy who got hit was in good humor http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


And Locust: STFU n00b! lol http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/crash2.gif (http://www.ghostskies.com/)

faustnik
01-03-2004, 02:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gibbage1:
I can peg running FW-190's at 500M on a regular basis. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As I fly the 190A about 95% of the time, I can appreciate that statement. Many oponents complain because 190A pilots will point the nose down and run when in a bad position. They don't understand that that is the best way to stay alive. A good shot with a P-39 can ruin our day, or a P-51! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Many 109s are getting a bad rap since 1.21 as well. The 109s had very high power to weight ratios and therefore excellent sustained climb ability. As for their turn, I've never found one that could out-turn a Cobra, Yak, or La. This is just another example of crying "uber" when beaten.

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mdegnan/_images/FaustSig

BfHeFwMe
01-03-2004, 02:58 PM
Part of the problem was all the whining about trim and dive pull out forces. So we got a rework to max stick forces at speed, you start doing that and your not only limiting rates, but also protecting noobs from overpulling and going beyond.

Now even a noob is flying maximum efficiency at certain points of the envelope in many planes. Can't have it both ways.

You have to burn plenty of speed and energy before you have the ability to even pull a stall, previous version was a bit to protected, this one will bite at slightly higher speeds.

I liked many of the original Il-2 planes, expecially the P-39, you had an edge throughout the entire flight model you had to ride, now that's gone in most all but the slower parts of the envelope.

x__CRASH__x
01-03-2004, 04:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by faustnik:
Many 109s are getting a bad rap since 1.21 as well. The 109s had very high power to weight ratios and therefore excellent sustained climb ability. As for their turn, I've never found one that could out-turn a Cobra, Yak, or La. This is just another example of crying "uber" when beaten.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm sorry. This is my fault. I can time a drop turn inside a Yak and La, and I actually regularly turn with and inside P-39's. The bad rap must be my fault. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/crash2.gif (http://www.ghostskies.com/)

michapma
01-05-2004, 08:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Old_Canuck:
P-39 is one of my favorites. I've saved a spin QMB where I regularly throw it into a flatspin. Found a quote from at least one WWII veteran online who said that it was impossible to recover from a flatspin. Read some combat reports of a P-39 squadron and many of the pilots were either killed in spins or bailed out when they couldn't recover.

Haven't managed it in FB yet except for one time when it was carrying a bomb. Still took over 8000 meters to recover.

Next procedure to attempt in flatspin recovery is to pump the elevator up and down to try and start an oscillation so it can pick up speed (hopefully). Otherwise, when the speed is pegged at 40kph and it's in a flatspin you might as well bail ... if you can.

OC<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

OC, since you like the P-39 and have experiemented with spin recovery, you'll appreciate that this plane has a unique recovery technique. Here it is as explaned in the Q-model POH:

http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/flightsims/images/p-39/p-39poh_p21.jpg

I experiemented with this in IL-2 and it worked much better than the standard recovery procedures. I was able to exit completely flat spins; only rarely was I not able to exit one, and I think that was mainly my lack of proper execution. Rudder pedals are almost a must with this technique. I haven't yet tried it out in any version of FB, since I haven't flown it that often due to squadron activities.

Have a go and see what you come up with!

Cheers