PDA

View Full Version : Planes are too much visible from above



jurinko
07-21-2004, 01:25 AM
Some of you may disagree, but on full excellent settings I can recognize all planes save maybe Spitfires (above the sea and ground), P-39 (above grassy ground) and I-16 (ditto) from even >6km alt as a small light grey dots. Silver P-38/51s are as visible as grey 109G-6s. The purpose of camo was to melt the plane against ground, but only few camos work like that and it also depends from which distance - I16 can be seen from big alt but from 1km it disappears excellently against grass. I read how Corsairs were lurking above Japan airfield and several Zekes took off unharmed, they simply could not recognize them against ground. Here you cans see them from 10km distance and 7km altitude.
Btw I fly BnZ only and current model helps me a lot, but i feel it is unrealistic. I read thet Finnish pilots had big troubles to find Russian IL-2s above the sea when they were flying in low alt.

---------------------
Letka_13/Liptow @ HL

jurinko
07-21-2004, 01:25 AM
Some of you may disagree, but on full excellent settings I can recognize all planes save maybe Spitfires (above the sea and ground), P-39 (above grassy ground) and I-16 (ditto) from even >6km alt as a small light grey dots. Silver P-38/51s are as visible as grey 109G-6s. The purpose of camo was to melt the plane against ground, but only few camos work like that and it also depends from which distance - I16 can be seen from big alt but from 1km it disappears excellently against grass. I read how Corsairs were lurking above Japan airfield and several Zekes took off unharmed, they simply could not recognize them against ground. Here you cans see them from 10km distance and 7km altitude.
Btw I fly BnZ only and current model helps me a lot, but i feel it is unrealistic. I read thet Finnish pilots had big troubles to find Russian IL-2s above the sea when they were flying in low alt.

---------------------
Letka_13/Liptow @ HL

alarmer
07-21-2004, 01:40 AM
It depends greatly on what kinda weather your flying and what time it is. Sometimes I can spot planes from 8km easily and most of the time I cant see em at all against ground.

Nasty thing is too that Axis planes are darker from distance than more greyish VVS planes which favors the latter naturally. I dont think there is anything that backs up this feature in the game?

People have been saying that plane recognising is harder than in real from distances of 1-2km or so but I think thats CPU limitation, maybe we will see improvement in BoB.

Lazy312
07-21-2004, 04:21 AM
I can spot low planes over forests everytime, even from 7000m.

Also engine abuse and fuel consumption is not much a problem.

It ends like that: Everyone is flying at extreme alts at nearly full throttle. I think it is unrealistic and bad for gameplay.

wooden planes, iron men

WWMaxGunz
07-21-2004, 04:46 AM
Someday I might get a better videocard to run more than mediocre graphics.

5km is only 3 miles. Planes lower were spotted at much greater distances according to
Chuck Yeager in his biography.

In reality much depends on the difference between how much heavy air is between the viewing
person and the target plane as opposed to the viewing person and the ground below. Water
vapor and dust tend to blur objects with distance so if the target plane is blurred less
from being viewed through less heavy air than the ground below, it will appear sharper and
brighter. The higher you go, the thinner and clearer the air so a target plane even 500m
above ground will look different than one at 100m at least if the ground is not high up
like mountains or high plateau. 2km up, the air is already clearer than under 1km. You
don't believe, take a trip up the mountains and notice things far away at known distances
then look the same distances down near sea level. Also note that in winter when the air
gets dry and not much dust (average place where it gets cold enough for snow) that you can
see clearer farther and it is better for viewing the stars. Hmmmm, try looking at the
stars from high places and then from low and that alone should tell.


Neal

XyZspineZyX
07-21-2004, 07:00 AM
What, are you on drugs???

It's quite the opposite: this sim's graphics benefit the player down low in the weeds, at the expense of the player on the perch, who should see much more below him.

Some planes, like P-39s and alarmingly huge behemoths like TB3s can fly below 500 meters and be invisible to the most thorough search from 2.5km up. I can't tell you how many times I've dived down on a dot I was lucky to see, straining as the dot fades from direct view as I get closer to it, and then, when I'm down low and committed, suddenly the air is full of 6 other planes I never had any idea were there.

Granted, this can happen if the planes are "nap of earth" or if your search routine is casual, but if you're standing on a wingtip and scouring the terrain below you, you can, barring clouds or weather, see well below you and to the sides. Most planes will not defeat a determined search; just the way they appear slightly different to the foliage and ground cover in the back ground makes your eyes lock onto them. In this sim, distant dots are wholly inconsistent. Sometimes they draw, sometimes they just don't. And certain maps, like the Normandy and Finnish maps are just impossible without icons. An exercise in pure frustration.

Willey
07-21-2004, 08:00 AM
You must be kidding!!

Objects are almost invisible from 1km on. That's since AEP... The only reason could be you have Stencil Buffer off and a GF card...

F16_Filur
07-21-2004, 08:10 AM
What about the increasing planesize when you close in on an enemy at the same alt? I´ve found that the dot/plane doesnt increase in a proportional/realistic way, but suddenly becomes very big. Making it difficult to judge distance. Am I right?

----------------------------------------

Buddy Boys Classic Thong $8.99 (http://www.cafeshops.com/100thafw) http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_redface.gif

No I do not want to enter, take me to Nintendo instead (http://www.nintendo.com/home)

OldMan____
07-21-2004, 08:20 AM
That may be different in different Video Cards.. so please post our cards. I Usually can ID several planes for up to 3 km... and just notice them as far as 6 or 7 km. Exception is some green cammo from P47 over crimeia grasss.. p38 I can ID at 7 KM far.. P51D also at least from 5 km

FX5900 1280x1024 4x FSAA 2x AnisoFilter

If brute force does not solve your problem... you are not using enough!

VMF513_Sandman
07-21-2004, 09:54 AM
i run a ati 9600xt, res at 1064x768x32, grafixs at high to excellent. perfect mode seems too laggy for me. wondering if diff camo paint would make any difference to either the top or underside of aircraft depending on line of sight?

F16_Filur
07-21-2004, 02:24 PM
I´ve got a Ti4200 128mb. Don´t have any problems to id, more about how the increasing size per distance seems to be coded.

Xnomad
07-21-2004, 03:42 PM
Nah!

Try the Prokhorovka maps online, you can't see Russians against the weeds there. I have real trouble tracking the Ruskies in that map every time. No matter what server I'm on it's always the same story.

Today I just had to run away from a Yak because I kept losing him in the ground clutter and he kept sneaking behind me and taking shots. Instead of fighting him I fled.

Maps like this are very annoying when playing in German planes and facing Russians as they fly so low you can't see them, if the opposition were experienced Spit and Mustang players then it would be easier as they fly higher than those lawn mowers. Of course a nice big fat shiny P-38 helps too.

http://www.xnomad.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/sig.jpg

ucanfly
07-21-2004, 06:15 PM
You guys have got to be kidding right? I can't see anything after 2km. GF4 ti4200. At wide view almost everything disappears against ground over 750 m.

609IAP_Recon
07-21-2004, 09:47 PM
"What about the increasing planesize when you close in on an enemy at the same alt? I´ve found that the dot/plane doesnt increase in a proportional/realistic way, but suddenly becomes very big. Making it difficult to judge distance. Am I right?
"

That is problem I have always had.

from very far away I see a white dot, etc..
Then, as I get closer it gets harder to see (unrealistic).
then, as you say, all of sudden it's larger.

From what I understand is that from far it is a pixel, but when you reach a certain distance it's the aircraft you see.

So basically it's backwards to me:
> should be harder to see from far away, but in IL2 its easy
> should be easier to see when closer.

The constant toggling of views to see is a hassle as well.

ie. there shouldn't even be a 'zoom', that is a gunsight view - should only work when looking down gunsight. But in the game, you need zoom to see.

S!
609IAP_Recon
http://www.leeboats.com/609/sig/609_recon3.jpg


Full Real Virtual Online War: Forgotten Skies (http://www.forgottenskies.com)

609IAP_Recon
07-21-2004, 09:53 PM
Let me add one more thought:

I think some of this is the ratio view. This is like 32:1 or something?

Imagine if the ratio was such that the aircraft were larger. You could do away with the pixel dot to see, and would actually see aircraft - and see them better in closer range.

maybe?

I've brought this all up to Oleg, he claims it's about monitors, etc.. I still think something could be done about it - maybe for BoB I hope.

S!
609IAP_Recon
http://www.leeboats.com/609/sig/609_recon3.jpg


Full Real Virtual Online War: Forgotten Skies (http://www.forgottenskies.com)

XyZspineZyX
07-21-2004, 11:14 PM
Well, it really IS about the monitors, mostly.

But, that still falls to the developer to design solutions around that problem, whatever they may be.

Everyone has to admit that a "solution" whereby you can see a dot in the widest view, but it's not there to be seen if you zoom in, is no solution at all; it's a complication of the problem.

Initially, the game had these large, black dots for "less-than-planeshape" sized distant planes that everyone thought were so ugly; (and me, too, I'll admit it, but my problem with them then was more that they had no "IFF" to them) I wish we could have them back!! What they lacked in eye candy aesthetics, they more than made up for in situational awareness and the ability to pick up objects from the perch like you're supposed to.

crazyivan1970
07-21-2004, 11:20 PM
I can`t see that well, but from 5k i can spot it.... problem is to see them at 2k over forest or something


p.s. Stigler, did you get my e=mail with the text?

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/band.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/coop-ivan.jpg

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/vfc/home.htm

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

Matz0r
07-22-2004, 10:31 AM
I dunno if anyone else have this but on my system planes 30 degrees above and below me disappear completely. I've even had big planes at < 1km disappear before my eyes.

http://www.pfy.nu/tmp/fw3.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-22-2004, 11:00 AM
Oh, yes, I did, and thank you!!! I'll get to reading it sometime soon....

diomedes33
07-22-2004, 11:28 AM
I always thought that mig alley had a cool effect of sunlight reflecting off canopies. Plus this would really help seeing planes below.

I've noticed that spitfires and p39s blend right into the forest. Granted their camoflauged, but its frustrating when you can't see the plane in front of you.


aka 3./JG51_Specter
http://www.public.asu.edu/~guthriec/ubi_sig.jpg

PBNA-Boosher
07-22-2004, 02:33 PM
If it's plain as day... It's American
If it's somewhat camoflaged... It's British
If it takes a keen eye to see it... It's Russian
If it's damn invisible... It's German

Thought I might put a bit of humor here. I tried to remember it all. Not sure about the Russian part though.

Boosher
_____________________________
"So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you..."
-Gandalf

alarmer
07-23-2004, 01:14 AM
Yep most of the VVS planes have somekinda stealth technology http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif