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View Full Version : Skip bombing: how realistic is this?



Objektskaya
04-27-2008, 07:27 AM
Lately I've just about perfected my skip-bombing technique with the Corsair. Nothing on the surface of the ocean is safe now, given a bomb of sufficient size. I even sank a Japanese carrier by skipping a 2000 lb. bomb into its side.

How realistic is this? I know the Dambusters used a specially-made bomb to take down German hydroelectric dams, but did anyone try this with regular old bombs at sea? I'm thinking there must be some real-world limitation the game isn't modeling. For example, any sea state other than Il-2's permanent "glassy smooth" seas would probably screw it up. Thoughts?

R_Target
04-27-2008, 07:47 AM
Skip bombing was used by USAAF in the Pacific. Look here. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skip_bombing)

DKoor
04-27-2008, 08:01 AM
While I can understand skip bombing on water, what's the story about skip bombing on the ground?
Ground skip bombing is possible to do in IL2.

hurricane1948
04-27-2008, 08:08 AM
Gen. George Kenny's aircrews flying B-25s and A-20s used skip bombing to good effect against Japanese shipping in harbors and in calm sea conditions.

Zeus-cat
04-27-2008, 08:32 AM
I am currently building a B-25 skip-bombing campaign. I just finished mission 12 and have plans for about 25 missions. Most of th targets will be ships, but there will be a few ground attack missions.

Spinnetti
04-27-2008, 09:52 AM
Originally posted by DKoor:
While I can understand skip bombing on water, what's the story about skip bombing on the ground?
Ground skip bombing is possible to do in IL2.

I forget where I read this, but there was an eastern front German 190 pilot recounting tales of how they would fly literally on the deck (10m ish) and skip bomb tanks.... I'm sure with google you can find all sorts of stuff

M_Gunz
04-27-2008, 11:21 AM
There's a few problems with ground skipping that are for sure not modeled.
Like bomb shape and ground unevenness, how those affect the path of the bomb -- try skipping
a US football predictably sometime.

And then there's what happens if a dumb bomb strikes something of sufficient hardness like a
large rock, concrete or steel bunker or tank before exploding.

Dumb bombs primer. (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/dumb/bombs.htm)


Complete (high order) detonation of high-explosives can generate pressures up to 700 tons per square inch and temperatures in the range of 3,000 to 4,500� (degrees, but F or C?) prior to bomb case fragmentation. It is essential that the bomb casing remain intact long enough after the detonation sequence begins to contain the hot gases and achieve a high order explosion. A consideration when striking hardened targets is that deformation of the weapon casing or fuze may cause the warhead to dud or experience a low order detonation.

As true now as it was then, not within the scope of IL2 modeling.

DmdSeeker
04-27-2008, 11:47 AM
The P47 units in Operation strangle had steel prongs fitted to the noses of thier bombs- the idea was that the bombs would then "catch" and stick onto railway sleepers; when making anti railroad strikes.

Other wise the bombs would skip merrily down the rail tracks resulting in a relatively harmless airburst.

halfcool
04-27-2008, 11:55 AM
Someone please explain to me how to skip bomb, or rather fill in the incorrect parts.

You take a certain bomb type, set the delay, fly low and fast and hope it skips off the water/ground when you release to hit a target where it has the least armour?

Objektskaya
04-27-2008, 02:21 PM
Originally posted by halfcool:
Someone please explain to me how to skip bomb, or rather fill in the incorrect parts.

You take a certain bomb type, set the delay, fly low and fast and hope it skips off the water/ground when you release to hit a target where it has the least armour?

I've only done it at sea against ships, using the American 1000 and 2000 lb. bombs. Given a sufficiently large bomb (2000 lb. can probably wreck anything), you can sink anything up to aircraft carrier size. It ought to work with bombs of any nationality, but I'm not sure about sinking a warship with, for instance, a 500 lb. bomb.

It took a while to work it out, but basically here's what I do:
Start from 1000 ft or so altitude. Come at the ship from the side. Put your nose on its bow if it's moving to establish a proper lead; you can aim amidships if it's at anchor. Enter a shallow dive with throttle at maximum. Level off between 50 and 0 ft. altitude. Keep the wings level throughout. Release about 100-200 yards from the target ship. Pull up immediately, but no so hard you stall, to escape the blast.

The next-to-last step, releasing at the proper distance, is the tough part. I'm not sure exactly how far I am at release. Closer is better, but you have to leave enough space to pull up without hitting the ship or its superstructure.

I use a 3.0 second delay fuse. Other timings may work as well, but set it too short and you'll be caught in the blast.

A good way to practice & work this out for yourself is to try the "Bomb a German/Japanese Harbor" missions from the "2 Minutes to Action" series. The Difficulty 1 versions start you off at altitude, close to the target, with no enemy antiaircraft fire. Also set ammo to "unlimited" so you can make the most of your practice.

DKoor
04-27-2008, 02:42 PM
I have inflicted heavy damage to myself few times while skip bombing in Ki-43 (2x250kg). Japanese bombs hit very hard... they are most destructive ones in game - relatively speaking.

Bearcat99
04-27-2008, 02:44 PM
Originally posted by halfcool:
Someone please explain to me how to skip bomb, or rather fill in the incorrect parts.

You take a certain bomb type, set the delay, fly low and fast and hope it skips off the water/ground when you release to hit a target where it has the least armour?

Darts Videos (http://www.darts-page.com/)

Hands down one of the absolute best places to learn siome fundamental tecniques in this sim... These videos are a must see for anyone new to the sim.

Schwarz.13
04-27-2008, 03:02 PM
Originally posted by Objektskaya:
I know the Dambusters used a specially-made bomb to take down German hydroelectric dams

Sorry to go slightly off-topic, but did you know that the bouncing bombs in the famous Dambusters film are neither the correct shape or size? That information was still Classified under the Official Secrets Act at the time the fim was being made http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Skip bombing looks like good fun actually but i wouldn't have fancied my chances in RL (especially over ground) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/disagree.gif

Bearcat99
04-27-2008, 05:20 PM
There is a scene in Empire of the Sun where the P-51s are bombing thr Japanes base.. and one of the bombs doesnt go off on impact.. it tumbles into the hangar and then explodes... I think a lot of skip bombing is depended on the way the fuses are set as far as the delay etc.

BGs_Ricky
04-28-2008, 05:19 AM
Originally posted by Spinnetti:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DKoor:
While I can understand skip bombing on water, what's the story about skip bombing on the ground?
Ground skip bombing is possible to do in IL2.

I forget where I read this, but there was an eastern front German 190 pilot recounting tales of how they would fly literally on the deck (10m ish) and skip bomb tanks.... I'm sure with google you can find all sorts of stuff </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There is such an account here:

http://members.aol.com/fockewulf190page/fockewulf190.html

SheerLuckHolmes
04-28-2008, 05:51 AM
I tried to skip bomb battleships in Pearl Harbor (not in RL but in game though) and result was that I lost my rear of my planes fuselage. Then I rolled over a few times before hitting the ground. Obviously I was flying too hig with my zero (prolly in 20 meters).
I was funny though.

backseatgunner
04-28-2008, 12:14 PM
Originally posted by Spinnetti:

I forget where I read this, but there was an eastern front German 190 pilot recounting tales of how they would fly literally on the deck (10m ish) and skip bomb tanks.... I'm sure with google you can find all sorts of stuff

Just saw a doco on the History Channel (sorry, can't quote title) where a Luftwaffe pilot was interviewed about anti-tank missions during the early days of Stalingrad. He mentioned skipping bombs up to T-34's, and how they use to try to get them between the tracks to make the tank turn over. Now that's accurate bombing!

cheers,
Tony

crucislancer
04-28-2008, 12:59 PM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by halfcool:
Someone please explain to me how to skip bomb, or rather fill in the incorrect parts.

You take a certain bomb type, set the delay, fly low and fast and hope it skips off the water/ground when you release to hit a target where it has the least armour?

Darts Videos (http://www.darts-page.com/)

Hands down one of the absolute best places to learn siome fundamental tecniques in this sim... These videos are a must see for anyone new to the sim. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

+1 for Darts videos!

After watching his skip bombing video a few times, I got the hang of it quite well.