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stalkervision
04-03-2007, 02:33 PM
Which do you believe has the most?

You can include planes with add-on weaponry also.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

stalkervision
04-03-2007, 02:33 PM
Which do you believe has the most?

You can include planes with add-on weaponry also.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

LStarosta
04-03-2007, 02:55 PM
F-15C or F-22A

VW-IceFire
04-03-2007, 02:57 PM
I think the ball goes squarely in the court of the Me-262. Four MK108 cannons is very hard to beat. Second to that would be any Bf109 with three MK108 cannons (two on the wings and one in the nose).

There was a site with all of the proper calculations done but both of my links to it are down right now. I think from the list the best firepower was Me262, Bf109 (with the 3 MK108s), Tempest, some FW190 versions and then down the list from there.

Not included in that list are some more candidates for heavy firepower that are not part of the typical WWII fare...like the Do-335, Ta-152C, and others.

Capt.LoneRanger
04-03-2007, 02:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LStarosta:
F-15C or F-22A </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

A joke in any way I guess.

stalkervision
04-03-2007, 03:35 PM
What about some cannon carrying Japanese planes here? How about them?

ImpStarDuece
04-03-2007, 03:38 PM
Some ME-410 variants had 4 x 7.92, 2 x 20mm and 2 x 30mm.

Which is really a mixed bag when it comes to ballistics!

VW-IceFire
04-03-2007, 04:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stalkervision:
What about some cannon carrying Japanese planes here? How about them? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Only the Ki-84-Ic would qualify and even then its not going to be as good as the FW190A-8 which has more powerful 20mm cannons as a supplement to the MK108 30mm (which are very similar to the Japanese 30mm)and then the FW190 adds a pair of MG131 in there as well.

The Japanese guns don't fare as well because they have less destructive potential. A four 20mm cannon armed Tempest is more dangerous than a four 20mm cannon armed N1K-2J because of the differences in hitting power for the 20mm cannons. The FW190A is in a similar category as the Tempest with the MG151/20 having less kinetic but more explosive power.

Beaufort-RAF
04-03-2007, 04:11 PM
Don't forget the Beaufighter. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

Daiichidoku
04-03-2007, 04:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
I think the ball goes squarely in the court of the Me-262. Four MK108 cannons is very hard to beat. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

+ R4Ms... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Daiichidoku
04-03-2007, 04:23 PM
He-219A-7 carried armament of eight cannon - two 30 mm Rheinmetall MK-108s in the wing roots, two 30 mm Rheinmetall MK-103s and two 20 mm Mauser MK-151/20s in a ventral tray, and two MK-108s in a "Schrage Musik" installation

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

fordfan25
04-06-2007, 09:06 PM
me-110?

VW-IceFire
04-06-2007, 09:09 PM
Actually...come to think of it...the P-61 would also count in with the four M2 20mm cannons (basically the same as the Hispano) and four M2 .50cal machine guns. Same as the Beaufighter but in a more concentrated installation.

luftluuver
04-06-2007, 10:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Daiichidoku:
He-219A-7 carried armament of eight cannon - two 30 mm Rheinmetall MK-108s in the wing roots, two 30 mm Rheinmetall MK-103s and two 20 mm Mauser MK-151/20s in a ventral tray, and two MK-108s in a "Schrage Musik" installation

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>That is suppose to carry since it was never built.

FritzGryphon
04-07-2007, 12:18 AM
In the game; Do-335 with the 3 x MK103.

Real life plane that saw large numbers; Me-262.

Non jet; anything with 2 MK-108/Ho 30mm.

After that, the 6 x MG151 FW-190, then all the 4 x cannon planes.

The 37mm-50mm are either anti-tank oriented, or too low RoF to hit anything other than a bomber.

MrBlueSky1960
04-07-2007, 03:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stalkervision:
Which do you believe has the most?

You can include planes with add-on weaponry also.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, depends what point of the War http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Early this has got to be a contender...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v187/Secudus/Hispan00.jpg

DKoor
04-07-2007, 04:11 AM
In game regardless of period and historical use;
-Me-262 hands down clear winner
-Do-335V13 insanity with it's MK103's
-FW-190A with MK103 gondolas
-Bf-109G/K with MK108 gondolas
-TA-152C because it can shot down many 4-engined bombers in one run + it can carry A2A missiles

Nothing beats those in firepower.
Why I put 262 in the first place?
Simple. I shot down 25 B-17's in one mission on "realistic" settings, so compared to most other fighters in game this plane seems like it's not from this world.

Kocur_
04-07-2007, 05:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stalkervision:
MK108 30mm (which are very similar to the Japanese 30mm) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I wouldnt call them "very similar". Japanese Ho-155 fired projectiles which were considerably lighter, than those of MK108 (270/235g vs. 330g) at higher muzzle velocity (600/700m/s vs. 505m/s). I dont know what was design of Japanese projectiles, i.e. if they were thin-walled, lots-of-explosive type, as German Minengeschoss were. The cannons themselves were completely different: MK108 was API Blowback operated, while Ho-155 was short recoil operated - in fact it was little more than US .50 M2 scaled up again (as 20mm Ho-5 was scaled up Japanese Army copy of M2, i.e. 12,7mm x 81SR Ho-103).

major_setback
04-07-2007, 05:37 AM
I like the Ki 84c with 2 x 20mm and 2 x 30mm cannons. They jar the aircraft a bit and ruin aiming so I just do quick bursts.

WarWolfe_1
04-07-2007, 07:17 AM
I http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.giflike the P-39Q with 37mm Cannon and 4 50cals

leitmotiv
04-07-2007, 08:01 AM
For dismantling U.S. heavies, I'd take the 110G with the two 20mm 151s in the upper nose, two 20mm 151s in the lower nose, and a tray of two 20mm 151s on the belly any day because the MG151 could inflict a great deal of damage while at the extreme range of the Yank point fifties. In the game, where you can only get four 151s in the 110 max, you can rake a Fort or Lib at long range, back and forth, but with Maddox gunners you can be ripped apart by return fire.

stalkervision
04-07-2007, 08:04 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by leitmotiv:
For dismantling U.S. heavies, I'd take the 110G with the two 20mm 151s in the upper nose, two 20mm 151s in the lower nose, and a tray of two 20mm 151s on the belly any day because the MG151 could inflict a great deal of damage while at the extreme range of the Yank point fifties. In the game, where you can only get four 151s in the 110 max, you can rake a Fort or Lib at long range, back and forth, but with Maddox gunners you can be ripped apart by return fire. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I like this combination too. One can see why escort fighters were so badly needed to chase the me-110'2 away with this set-up huh? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

LEBillfish
04-07-2007, 09:06 AM
Pity he said "fighter" would be hard to beat a B25H with top turret turned round forward, 4 gunpacks, strafer guns in nose of which I "believe" they even in some had a 20mm, a 75mm cannon, rocket tubes under wings, and 207 parafrags.....Swath-O-Destruction

JG52Karaya-X
04-07-2007, 09:34 AM
Talking of the Me262 having the most powerful armament:

One special version, the A1a/U1 had an armament arrangement of 2xMk108, 2xMk103 (barrels sticking out of the nose) and finally 2xMG151/20 all of these concentrated in the nose section.

Now THAT I think is the final word on fire power http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

So my own personal list:

1) Me262A1a/U1
2) Me262A1a
3) Bf109K6 (ingame flyable through the K4 with 30mm gondolas)
4) FW190A8 "Sturmbock" (2xMk108 replacing the outer pair MG151/20)
5) Me262A2a
6) Tempest
7) Bf109K4 / G6, G10 & G14 with U4
8) FW190A
9) Typhoon / Hurricane Mk.IIc / Spitfire Mk.Vc
10) P47C/D
11) Spitfire MkIXe
12) Spitfire Mk.Vb-IXc
13) P51D
14) Bf109G with normal 20mm Nabenkanone
15) P51B

This is based on pure hitting power and doesnt take into account things like convergence issues, etc. otherwise the Bf109G for example would range higher in the list.

WarWolfe_1
04-07-2007, 10:24 AM
12 (8 in the nose, and 2 in upper and lower turrets firring foward) 50cals of the A-26 would be nice to have for this Sim. Thats a Heavy hitter indeed http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

Daiichidoku
04-07-2007, 10:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by luftluuver:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Daiichidoku:
He-219A-7 carried armament of eight cannon - two 30 mm Rheinmetall MK-108s in the wing roots, two 30 mm Rheinmetall MK-103s and two 20 mm Mauser MK-151/20s in a ventral tray, and two MK-108s in a "Schrage Musik" installation

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>That is suppose to carry since it was never built. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

A2 production was changed to A7 production in january 45, about 35 were produced that month, out of (depending on sources) approx 250-290 (of all variants) made during the war

the A7 was bascially an upgunned A2 with db603G replacing the A2's db603a's

Daiichidoku
04-07-2007, 10:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Daiichidoku:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by luftluuver:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Daiichidoku:
He-219A-7 carried armament of eight cannon - two 30 mm Rheinmetall MK-108s in the wing roots, two 30 mm Rheinmetall MK-103s and two 20 mm Mauser MK-151/20s in a ventral tray, and two MK-108s in a "Schrage Musik" installation

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>That is suppose to carry since it was never built. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

A2 production was changed to A7 production in january 45, about 35 were produced that month, out of (depending on sources) approx 250-290 (of all variants) made during the war

the A7 was bascially an upgunned A2 with db603G replacing the A2's db603a's </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

the first A7 was presented 13/06/44

excellent info on the 219 here: http://www.baermann.biz/pauke/index.php?itemid=56

R_Target
04-07-2007, 11:11 AM
I guess the Tigercat's in there somewhere. Four 20mm, four .50cal.

http://www.richard-seaman.com/Aircraft/AirShows/Duxford2002/Tigercat/TigercatTaxyingWideAngle.jpg

Jaws2002
04-07-2007, 11:46 AM
Not necessary air to air but second prototype of this bad boy could shoot down a battleship. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif


<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">Sukhoi Su-8</span> (http://worldatwar.net/chandelle/v3/v3n2/su-8.html)


4 x 45mm cannons http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif
8 x 7.62mm mg's
1 x 12.7mm mg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/&lt;FA&gt;Jaws/Suchoi_Su-8.jpg

Aaron_GT
04-07-2007, 12:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I guess the Tigercat's in there somewhere. Four 20mm, four .50cal. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ditto P-61 (mostly), Beaufighter Mk. 21

reisen52
04-07-2007, 12:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WarWolfe_1:
12 (8 in the nose, and 2 in upper and lower turrets firring foward) 50cals of the A-26 would be nice to have for this Sim. Thats a Heavy hitter indeed http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

+6X.50 in the outer wing panels or 8X.50 in underwing pods.

scaredycat1
04-07-2007, 12:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by R_Target:
I guess the Tigercat's in there somewhere. Four 20mm, four .50cal.

http://www.richard-seaman.com/Aircraft/AirShows/Duxford2002/Tigercat/TigercatTaxyingWideAngle.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


R_target, beuiful pic, thanks for shareing that!

ARCHIE_CALVERT
04-07-2007, 12:53 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Go here: http://users.skynet.be/Emmanuel.Gustin/fgun/fgun-fi.html
http://users.skynet.be/Emmanuel.Gustin/fgun/fgun-an.html

Aaron_GT
04-07-2007, 12:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">12 (8 in the nose, and 2 in upper and lower turrets firring foward) 50cals of the A-26 would be nice to have for this Sim. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Only the top turret in the A-26 can fire directly forward. 10 .50s firing forwards is the equivalent of somewhere between 3 and 4 20mm cannon which actually gives the earliest A20Gs better armament (4 20mm, 2 .50s in the nose) except when the A26 was augmented by the wing gun pods (as could be fited to the earlier blocks) or the integral guns in the later A26s.

Given the approximation of 1 20mm is 3 .50s (the rough equivalence the USN accorded) gives the F7F, P61 and Beaufighter Mk. 21 a forward armament of 16 .50 cal equivalents, and the A26 a maximum of (with pods and top turret locked forward) of 18 (with some loss of accuracy from the pods)or 16 with integral wing guns, so very similar to the F7F, P-61, and Beaufighter. It's worth noting that early on the P-61 typically had the top turret deleted, meaning that it could not then be locked forward to augment the pilot's guns.

Jaws2002
04-07-2007, 01:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Aaron_GT:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">12 (8 in the nose, and 2 in upper and lower turrets firring foward) 50cals of the A-26 would be nice to have for this Sim. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Only the top turret in the A-26 can fire directly forward. 10 .50s firing forwards is the equivalent of somewhere between 3 and 4 20mm cannon which actually gives the earliest A20Gs better armament (4 20mm, 2 .50s in the nose) except when the A26 was augmented by the wing gun pods (as could be fited to the earlier blocks) or the integral guns in the later A26s.

Given the approximation of 1 20mm is 3 .50s (the rough equivalence the USN accorded) gives the F7F, P61 and Beaufighter Mk. 21 a forward armament of 16 .50 cal equivalents, and the A26 a maximum of (with pods and top turret locked forward) of 18 (with some loss of accuracy from the pods)or 16 with integral wing guns, so very similar to the F7F, P-61, and Beaufighter. It's worth noting that early on the P-61 typically had the top turret deleted, meaning that it could not then be locked forward to augment the pilot's guns. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


How many fifty cals you need to match Su-8's firepower? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
(The bloody thing would throw over one ton of ammo per minute http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif)

4 x 45mm cannons
8 x 7.62mm mg's
1 x 12.7mm mg

Vike
04-07-2007, 01:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JG52Karaya-X:
Talking of the Me262 having the most powerful armament:

One special version, the A1a/U1 had an armament arrangement of 2xMk108, 2xMk103 (barrels sticking out of the nose) and finally 2xMG151/20 all of these concentrated in the nose section.

Now THAT I think is the final word on fire power http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Awesome plane indeed,here are some infos! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://www.stormbirds.net/images_variants/me262A-1aU1_photo4s.jpg (http://www.stormbirds.net/images_variants/me262A-1aU1_photo4.jpg) (Clic to enlarge)

-Here for technical data and *IRL* photos (http://www.stormbirds.net/variants262a1aU1.htm)

In two words: Totally Uber! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Daiichidoku:
He-219A-7 carried armament of eight cannon - two 30 mm Rheinmetall MK-108s in the wing roots, two 30 mm Rheinmetall MK-103s and two 20 mm Mauser MK-151/20s in a ventral tray, and two MK-108s in a "Schrage Musik" installation

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://hsfeatures.com/features04/images/he219rl_3.jpg

What a firepower,that's monstruous! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

I wish we had those two awesome Warplanes... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

@+

stalkervision
04-07-2007, 01:58 PM
Me too.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

WWSpinDry
04-07-2007, 02:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WarWolfe_1:
12 (8 in the nose, and 2 in upper and lower turrets firring foward) 50cals of the A-26 would be nice to have for this Sim. Thats a Heavy hitter indeed http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're forgetting the six .50s in the wings; the lower turret couldn't face forwards, though.

BM357_Sniper
04-07-2007, 08:13 PM
It's all relative. My vote goes for the plane thats on your six and you can't get away! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

FE_pilot
04-08-2007, 12:48 AM
My vote goes to the Me-262A-1a U4, With the 50mm cannon in front.



The 50mm cannon will take out plane with one shot. Also its works really well as a tank killer.