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LC34
05-05-2004, 08:15 PM
Well I think I will get a new joystick. My Logitech Wingman FF3D is good, but I just need some more "buttons" to set my HOTAS better.

So my real question is this, we all know that the X-45 is a great stick, but will I be missing the FF? I like it so that I know when my aircraft is on the limit of stalling. If I fly with the 45 will I just come to learn when the stall is about to happen and not think twice about the lack of force feedback?

Also am I correct in assuming that its connected with USB ports? If so how many? One for the stick and one for the throttle?

LC34
05-05-2004, 08:15 PM
Well I think I will get a new joystick. My Logitech Wingman FF3D is good, but I just need some more "buttons" to set my HOTAS better.

So my real question is this, we all know that the X-45 is a great stick, but will I be missing the FF? I like it so that I know when my aircraft is on the limit of stalling. If I fly with the 45 will I just come to learn when the stall is about to happen and not think twice about the lack of force feedback?

Also am I correct in assuming that its connected with USB ports? If so how many? One for the stick and one for the throttle?

SkyChimp
05-05-2004, 08:26 PM
Throttle connets to the stick, and the stick connects via USB.

Regards,
http://members.cox.net/us.fighters/wildsig.jpg

LC34
05-05-2004, 10:33 PM
Hmm I was hoping someone had switched from a force feedback stick to the X-45. If you have tell me what you think going from a stick that fights back to one that doesn't. Does it take getting used to?

aerick2
05-05-2004, 11:01 PM
I went from a Logitech stick with FFB to my X-45 and it took almost no getting used to. I never looked back. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

lbhskier37
05-05-2004, 11:14 PM
If you have a new intel CPU with hyperthreading be aware that the X45 doesnt like it. They are working on a driver update for it for like 6 months, they say it should be done this month, but who knows. You can use the X45 on a hyperthreaded chip, but you have to disable hyperthreading until the new driver is out.

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"Only the spirit of attack, born in a brave heart, will bring success to any fighter aircraft, no matter how highly developed it may be." Adolf Galland

tttiger
05-05-2004, 11:23 PM
Make sure you've got room for it...it takes up a lot of space.

That's the only reason I don't have one.

ttt

"I want the one that kills the best with the least amount of risk to me"

-- Chuck Yeager describing "The Best Airplane."

aerick2
05-06-2004, 12:58 AM
I don't think it takes up much space, the throttle and stick together measure only about 13"x7", and that sits neatly on the far side of my desk. I guess it just depends on what else you have on your desk. I only have my monitor, X-45, keyboard & mouse, and a small lamp. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

tenmmike
05-06-2004, 01:16 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LC34:
Hmm I was hoping someone had switched from a force feedback stick to the X-45. If you have tell me what you think going from a stick that fights back to one that doesn't. Does it take getting used to?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>im running my msffb2 and a x-45 togeter ..the stick is my ffb2 and i use the hotas from the x-45 ....works great...lots of buttons and ffb at same time

http://www.2-60inf.com/2-60_crest.gif 84-91

Bansai Potato
05-06-2004, 01:53 AM
You dont need forcefeedback to detect a stall before it happens, theres always a little flutter before it goes, get used to noticing that.

I have very little room on my desk but an X45 is not a problem for me, i have the stick sat on the desk in front of me and i have attached a small wooden plinth/shelf to the left arm of my big chair, this positions the throttle into the position it would be if i were in a real cockpit. That works very nicely for me, and with CH pedals tucked under the desk its quite immersive.

http://homepage.hispeed.ch/Ede_EAF92/EAF/24890632.92EastIndiaSquadronpersonnel.jpg

Bearcat99
05-06-2004, 05:51 AM
I use both thew X45 and a MSFFB2.. I use the whole X45.. stick as well as throttle. The stick makes a great button bay. Just put it off to the side. You dont have to be able to stick your hand in it just get your fingers to the buttons. The only parts i dont use are the X 7 Y axii of the stick. I only touch my keyboard when I am typing.. every command you can think of is on my sticks.. and since o got Charv's TIR profile I am in flight sim immersion heaven.

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TugZooey
05-06-2004, 06:20 AM
I went from the Logi FFB Wingman to the X-45 and am very happy with the change. The Rocker Rudder takes a little while to get used to, but I find it way more efficient than the twisty (no more accidental rudder with Logi's sloppy design). I find that I don't waste any energy because of the precision of the rocker. Before the X-45, I pretty much put a little rudder in every maneuver, now I only use it when needed.

My X-45 can be a bit buggy, however. I noticed that my B firing button will not register when I try to assign my bombs to it (Ctrl Space). I even tried remapping the button to different keystrokes and to the button itself in the FB control menu. Mine may be the exception as far as this bug goes. Even without the B firing button, it far surpasses the Logi, Force Feedback or not.


Good Luck

scootertgm
05-06-2004, 09:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lbhskier37:
If you have a new intel CPU with hyperthreading be aware that the X45 doesnt like it. They are working on a driver update for it for like 6 months, they say it should be done this month, but who knows. You can use the X45 on a hyperthreaded chip, but you have to disable hyperthreading until the new driver is out.

http://www.il2skins.com/?action=list&whereauthorid=lbhkilla&comefrom=display&ts=1049772896
Official "uber190n00b"
"Only the spirit of attack, born in a brave heart, will bring success to any fighter aircraft, no matter how highly developed it may be." Adolf Galland

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do you have the link where this is documented... that might be some of my problems

GT182
05-06-2004, 09:07 AM
I know the Cougar HOTAS costs more but I'd go with that instead of the X45.

You will need a set of gameport rudder pedals with the Cougar but IMHO it's a better setup than the X45.... easier to use too. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

"GT182" / "vonSpinmeister"
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"Fly to Survive, Survive to Fly"

BaldieJr
05-06-2004, 09:58 AM
There is always one Cougar owner isn't there?

GT182, how long did you use the X45 before buying a Cougar?

X45 isn't bad. You won't even miss the poor FFB effects of your current stick. I've had both and the X45 is nice (after some tweaking).

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">
Specs:
More expensive than the dining set.
Less expensive than the couch.
Smaller than the dishwasher.
Just as noisy as the refridgerator.
Faster than the cars' computer.
Less practical than the car.
Face it, people who put thier computer specs in thier signature are pretty ****ing wierd.

</pre>

El Turo
05-06-2004, 10:08 AM
The X45 has heavy enough springs that it's difficult to over control your aircraft, so in that regard, I think that it's kind of similar to FFB in that you get a feel for where the limits of your aircraft are.

That's probably the only gripe I have about my new CH Fighterstick is that the springs are so light that I'm still getting used to it and over-controlling my plane a bit.

The X45 is a good stick overall and for the money, there isn't anything that can genuinely compare. However, the rocker arm rudder is horrid for fine control and you're going to want to upgrade to a set of pedals eventually (if not immediately).

Additionally, I would strongly recommend that you buy the X45 from Best Buy or Circuit City and GET THE 2 YEAR EXTENDED WARRANTY. The X45 has a penchant for wearing out in the 12-18 month range and needing replacement. If you get the warranty then you can replace the thing with a new set at no additional charge.

Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
______________________
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El Turo
05-06-2004, 10:10 AM
FWIW, the Cougar is a REALLY nice setup.. but only after you spend $600-900 for the stick and aftermarket fixes for the **** internal components.

LOL! C.r.a.p. is a censored word? That's rediculous.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
______________________
Amidst morning clouds
Fork-tailed devil hunts its prey
Lightning strikes, süsse träume.

Bearcat99
05-06-2004, 10:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TugZooey:
I went from the Logi FFB Wingman to the X-45 and am very happy with the change. The Rocker Rudder takes a little while to get used to, but I find it way more efficient than the twisty (no more accidental rudder with Logi's sloppy design). I find that I don't waste any energy because of the precision of the rocker. Before the X-45, I pretty much put a little rudder in every maneuver, now I only use it when needed.

My X-45 can be a bit buggy, however. I noticed that my B firing button will not register when I try to assign my bombs to it (Ctrl Space). I even tried remapping the button to different keystrokes and to the button itself in the FB control menu. Mine may be the exception as far as this bug goes. Even without the B firing button, it far surpasses the Logi, Force Feedback or not.
Good Luck<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

IMO the best way to get the most out of your Saitek is toi use the profiling software.

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T_O_A_D
05-06-2004, 05:46 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif
My Pentium 2.4 HT 800 has no problems at all with my X-45, But it did with the Track IR 3.+ drivers so I'm back to using the 2.11/2.12beta as of now just fooling around with them.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lbhskier37:
If you have a new intel CPU with hyperthreading be aware that the X45 doesnt like it. They are working on a driver update for it for like 6 months, they say it should be done this month, but who knows. You can use the X45 on a hyperthreaded chip, but you have to disable hyperthreading until the new driver is out.

http://www.il2skins.com/?action=list&whereauthorid=lbhkilla&comefrom=display&ts=1049772896
Official "uber190n00b"
"Only the spirit of attack, born in a brave heart, will bring success to any fighter aircraft, no matter how highly developed it may be." Adolf Galland

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Have you checked your Private Topics recently? (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=ugtpc&s=400102)
131st_Toad's Squad link (http://www.geocities.com/vfw_131st/)
My TrackIR fix, Read the whole thread (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?q=Y&a=tpc&s=400102&f=49310655&m=15310285&p=1)
2.11 drivers (http://home.mchsi.com/~131st-vfw/NaturalPoint_trackIR_2_11.exe)
http://home.mchsi.com/~131st_vfw/T_O_A_D.jpg

TugZooey
05-06-2004, 09:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bearcat99:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TugZooey:
I went from the Logi FFB Wingman to the X-45 and am very happy with the change. The Rocker Rudder takes a little while to get used to, but I find it way more efficient than the twisty (no more accidental rudder with Logi's sloppy design). I find that I don't waste any energy because of the precision of the rocker. Before the X-45, I pretty much put a little rudder in every maneuver, now I only use it when needed.

My X-45 can be a bit buggy, however. I noticed that my B firing button will not register when I try to assign my bombs to it (Ctrl Space). I even tried remapping the button to different keystrokes and to the button itself in the FB control menu. Mine may be the exception as far as this bug goes. Even without the B firing button, it far surpasses the Logi, Force Feedback or not.
Good Luck<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

IMO the best way to get the most out of your Saitek is toi use the profiling software.

http://tuskegeeairmen.org/airmen/who.html_vflyer@comcast.net_ http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat
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Sorry for the hijack, LC http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif . Thx Bearcat. I do use the profiling software (I downloaded Adlabs profile, which is superb, and tweaked it a little. The software is actually pretty good, and I would advise people to use it as well. I'd like to experiment more with macros, but haven't really figured out how they'd be advantageous.

Jezzadog
05-07-2004, 02:46 AM
Just this day I hooked up my new X45 after the recent death of my Logitec FFB. Way too early to make definitive statements re the X45 but my initial reaction is "mixed feelings". LOVE the throttle (no more silly little slider), can cope with the rudder rocker; but am disappointed with the stick. Contrary to H_Butcher I think the spring is too strong and detracts from the (apparent) agility of the fighter aircraft. The stability imparted by the stick is more appropriate to a bomber or trashhauler aircraft.

I preferred the feel of the Logitec (despite its warts). And yes, I do miss the control force and control feedback effects.

Sage words from Classic_EAF92. Working out some arrangement to get the throttle at thigh level is a very good idea. Suggest you get the stick fairly low as well - forearm almost resting on right thigh and arm parallel to or slight angle to the floor. I haven't worked out an arrangement as yet - but give me time...

Like I say; initial impressions only. I'm hoping the spring in the X45 will free up through use.

"The mark of a true combat pilot is that he can throw his aircraft at the ground - and miss"

Bearcat99
05-07-2004, 04:35 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jezzadog:
Just this day I hooked up my new X45 after the recent death of my Logitec FFB. Way too early to make definitive statements re the X45 but my initial reaction is "mixed feelings". LOVE the throttle (no more silly little slider), can cope with the rudder rocker; but am disappointed with the stick. Contrary to H_Butcher I think the spring is too strong and detracts from the (apparent) agility of the fighter aircraft. The stability imparted by the stick is more appropriate to a bomber or trashhauler aircraft.

I preferred the feel of the Logitec (despite its warts). And yes, I do miss the control force and control feedback effects.

Sage words from Classic_EAF92. Working out some arrangement to get the throttle at thigh level is a very good idea. Suggest you get the stick fairly low as well - forearm almost resting on right thigh and arm parallel to or slight angle to the floor. I haven't worked out an arrangement as yet - but give me time...

Like I say; initial impressions only. I'm hoping the spring in the X45 will free up through use.

"The mark of a true combat pilot is that he can throw his aircraft at the ground - and miss"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Consider getting a FFB stick down the road as well..... It is a dream setup...FFB and a HOTAS..and works like a charm in FB. Try the Saitek FFB stick. IMO MS made the best one... I cant believe Sidewinder will be gone forever... SOMONE is going to fill that void.. in the meantime consider getting anothe FFB stick and do as I suggested above with the X45 stick.. use it as a button bay. Even if you have limited desk space.. the footprint of that stick is only 6"X6" or so.

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Jezzadog
05-07-2004, 07:28 AM
Thanks Bearcat,

I have been tracking your inputs re using FFB stick with X45 and agree it's a super solution. At the moment though, I'd rather like to get my moneys-worth out of the X45 system before sinking my hard-earned into (yet) another stick.

Tonight I've played around a bit with the pitch and roll profiles. Tried Tully's settings and then some of my own (more radical) settings. The latter seem to have sharpened up response but the settings look nothing like the defaults: eg roll:1 set at 50, 2 at 55 etc. The problem is I don't know what the profile settings mean. My guess is that it's an incremental increase in response rate per unit: eg value 15 at setting 1 means 15% of max roll rate at 1/10 displacement. I figure if I start at a large value such as 50 this will give an (apparent) offset for the heaviness in the control circuit by providing a faster response for smaller deflections, particularly near the breakout point. Planning on more experimentation tomorrow (that's the good thing about flight sims -you can toy with the system and not kill yourself). http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

Like I say, I'm guessing about the profiles and I'm prepared to be told I'm wrong (and a total goat!). But if someone could tell me what the profiles really represent I could probably make a better fist of setting up my system to suit my taste.