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View Full Version : StarForce Software Protection , to buy or not to buy?



faustnik
03-17-2006, 10:45 AM

crazyivan1970
03-17-2006, 10:47 AM
Interesting poll Faust, i would like to know where community stands too.

crazyivan1970
03-18-2006, 09:12 PM
Ok folks, i purged this 11 pages thread, cast your votes, no comments please. Poll is a poll...end of story

That`s it

DarkCanuck420
03-18-2006, 10:30 PM
bump http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

crazyivan1970
03-19-2006, 10:19 AM
I`ll make it as short as possible for those who disagree with me purging the thread. Even that replies were civil, their presence was jepardizing existence of this thread. It would have been deleted and not by us. I sure hope you understand what i am saying.

nicolas10
03-19-2006, 10:36 AM
Thanks for bumping this topic http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Targ
03-19-2006, 10:55 AM
Just do as the man has asked politly many times.
Vote and move alone, simple no?
Some of you people do more harm than good http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
I mean really, running thru the village with torches srceaming "witch" at the top of your lungs will not help at all.

Targ
03-19-2006, 11:21 AM
uh oh,
teh hitler smiley has been invoked!
I would fight back but considereing that you are French we all know how that will end up http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

unhappy-boy
03-19-2006, 12:24 PM
The great ubisoft cover up, you can remove the truth from here but the people will find out you dont give a dam once you got their cash!!!

<span class="ev_code_RED">why not delet the ubi-soft moderators post as that has little to do with the cost of gas!!!!</span>
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/7961032962/m/1121067124

|CoB|_Spectre
03-19-2006, 12:58 PM
Probably one of the more worthy polls in memory.

Targ
03-19-2006, 01:02 PM
I will leave unhappy-boy's post as an example of how not to act.
The community needs to step up and smack people like this down. He does the starforce debate no good at all and hurts it.
He sees spooks behind every bush and in the shadows, lol.
The bottom line is that there is no prohibition from discussing starforce matters on these forums, IF the topics are focused and civil.
The UBI boards will not be used as a platform for a starforce crusade, get over it all ready. The only reason some of these posts get moderated is due to people like this guy above and that is a fact.
Running amok with burning torches screaming "witch" at the top of your lungs does no good and only makes you look foolish.
Posting rants on these boards does little good, have any of you thought to actually e-mail UBI and let them know how you feel? Heck why not let Oleg know and send him an e-mail saying you won€t buy his games if starforce is on it.
Use that thing on top of your shoulders people, throwing hissy fits on these boards is stupid and pathetic and a huge waste of time.

Genie-
03-19-2006, 01:24 PM
so many moderators on one place...

LEBillfish
03-19-2006, 01:29 PM
Huh?....who called me?....Oh wait Targ said ....."torches screaming "Witch""....I always get my B's & W's mixed up.... Never Mind http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Grue_
03-19-2006, 01:39 PM
I had some problems with Silent Hunter which were removed following a rebuild and now SH is collecting dust so I voted no and am hoping that BoB won't have it.

crazyivan1970
03-19-2006, 03:32 PM
Originally posted by Genie-:
so many moderators on one place...

Scary isnt it? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

PriK
03-19-2006, 03:49 PM
People want to play the victim so badly around here.

voted.

LeOs.K_Walstein
03-19-2006, 04:41 PM
Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
I`ll make it as short as possible for those who disagree with me purging the thread. Even that replies were civil, their presence was jepardizing existence of this thread. It would have been deleted and not by us. I sure hope you understand what i am saying.

GOT IT, MATE!

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifWallstein

fordfan25
03-19-2006, 04:48 PM
Originally posted by PriK:
People want to play the victim so badly around here.

voted. love the sig

crazyivan1970
03-19-2006, 07:25 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

fordfan25
03-19-2006, 08:53 PM
332 aginst starforce. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/crackwhip.gif

WOLFMondo
03-20-2006, 01:09 AM
Ivan, I know you said you wanted no comments but I'm a bit lost, why do people not like it? I've only seen a couple of games with it but not had any problems.

I'm curious as to why people do not like it.

arjisme
03-20-2006, 01:23 PM
Interesting thread over at SimHQ: This Just In: No Starforce on IL-2 DVD (http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=144;t=004096)

Anyone know of any additional confirmation on this?

I wonder if the same will be true of BoB?

Tully__
03-20-2006, 09:36 PM
There are several active SF discussions going in these forums. Vote here, discuss it there. As advised here, rants will be deleted.

Gatt59
03-21-2006, 04:49 AM
http://www.techamok.com/?pid=297

Interesting news about SF .... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

zaelu
03-21-2006, 06:14 AM
I am sorry I voted on this poll.

This thread and the other one is (unbeliveble isn't it) full of mods that are passing jokes from one to another just to make them (the threads) look ridiculous. This thing is actualy ridiculous.

You could simply delete the whole thing as it becames more and more obvious that is a total useless thread.

Crazy Ivan in the other thread you gave a link to this one and incouraged people to post their opinions here. Aparently you edited the post. I understand that it was a mistake, I understand your position.

Is not that I personaly have something against SF (as I said I am a legit user of Lock On Flaming Cliffs) I have something against people that are so careless to give away their freedom... something like my fellow compatriots many years ago.

Please understand! People are not complaining about the fact that SF is unbreakeble (people here are actualy customers of you) they are complaining that it is unsafe. That's all.

Ubisoft, put any copyprotection on your games that you wish. We will buy them eventualy but we could stop playing them very soon. We are shure that tis not a concern.

JG52Uther
03-21-2006, 06:30 AM
Strange this,10500 views and only 520 votes!

blairgowrie
03-21-2006, 06:42 AM
Originally posted by JG52Uther:
Strange this,10500 views and only 520 votes!

I am not really sure we all "completely" understand the issues Uther even although they have been well explained. I will put my trust in UBI and hope they will do what is right. I have come too far with putting up towers for a highspeed connection, state of the art computers etc. to just stop flying FB or other games that might come along with Starforce.

SeaFireLIV
03-21-2006, 07:17 AM
Why don`t UBI do as the devs of galactic civilization (see other thread) do? have no Starforce copy protect rubbish, but require purchasers to be registered to receive free updates and patches, otherwise they`ll be stuck with the default game. With the amount of free downloads and patches that Oleg releases he`d be onto a winner here! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

Slechtvalk
03-21-2006, 09:44 AM
Right...

72% will not buy BOB when it got starforce protection?

I don't buy that. It's the same as smoking, you can make it 10 times more expensive but you keep on smoking anyway's.

arcadeace
03-21-2006, 10:20 AM
Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
Why don`t UBI do as the devs of galactic civilization (see other thread) do? have no Starforce copy protect rubbish, but require purchasers to be registered to receive free updates and patches, otherwise they`ll be stuck with the default game. With the amount of free downloads and patches that Oleg releases he`d be onto a winner here! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

Yeah, with all the discussion I don't know why this alternative is not explored and offered more.

If BoB has SF I will not put any drivers in my system that have the potential to limit my devious behavior.

Zoom2136
03-21-2006, 10:36 AM
I'm a forensic accountant... defenetly not the type to make non legal copies of ANY game.

I WILL NOT (MEAN NEVER) INSTALL (thus not buying) a game (or any other type of program) that could cause me to lose unsaved data due to an unforseen "REBOOT". I also use my computer for work related matters and this could be problematic for me... and I'm sure for others (i.e. students).... (can you imagine loosing hours of work to such an event)... sorry teacher but my computer eat my homework http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

BTW ... I'm french so my engish can be so so...
and I'm not against copy protection... just not one that can be hazardous to my system...

crazyivan1970
03-21-2006, 11:32 AM
Originally posted by zaelu:
Crazy Ivan in the other thread you gave a link to this one and incouraged people to post their opinions here. Aparently you edited the post. I understand that it was a mistake, I understand your position.


I dont think you reading my posts carefully:


Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
Guys, just go here and voice your opinion, that`s all:

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/6841040424


Tully is right, there is no reason to slam companies for their choices. It`s their business, poll is the best solution to get the statistics from the customers base. Numbers will speak for themselves.

Nothing edited either. So... lets not go there.

TacticalYak3
03-21-2006, 12:38 PM
Originally posted by Targ:
The community needs to step up and smack people like this down.
But this would violate our terms of use. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Been thinking about this statement for the last couple of days. Certainly these forums have for a long time been very adversarial, and I would readily support a more positive experience for IL-2 fans at this official website, but a comment from a Moderator encouraging us to "smack people like this down" is not the right solution.

As for StarForce, seriously guys, this matter shouldn't have been raised unless the powers at be were willing to tolerate folks' opinions (factual and not). No reason comments couldn't be expressed after people voted. UBISoft gets to use the poll results, and the Mods can delete the thread afterwards. No one is forced to read the rants. I guess there was no way to only allow for just the poll without the option to respond?

Personally I would have thought that the reasons why people don't like SF as useful (if not more so) then responding yes or no, because it gives insight on the usability of alternatives.

TS!

fordfan25
03-21-2006, 01:09 PM
Originally posted by Slechtvalk:
Right...

72% will not buy BOB when it got starforce protection?

I don't buy that. It's the same as smoking, you can make it 10 times more expensive but you keep on smoking anyway's. not true. i stoped smokeing and i can stop flyn 1c flight sim's if it means putting up with starfart

zaelu
03-21-2006, 01:34 PM
Heh,

Ok Crazy Ivan I understud differently the expresion "voice your opinion". Sorry about it... must be the translation from english to mine language http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Also about the edit, I think I missed it searching. Sorry also.

RedDeth
03-22-2006, 12:29 AM
targ is one of the few mods...or the only one that if voted upon by the community might find himself in a bushlike situation.


http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


all the other mods seem very ....fair and cool btw

Dutch60
03-22-2006, 12:55 AM
I would like to share these quit alarming StarForce readings with you.
I do not intend to do any StarForce bashing I only want to share these alarming readings and I will buy BOB even if it will carry the StarForce protection.

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=30447

http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/13212

http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2006Mar/gee20060320035392.htm

raisen
03-22-2006, 08:33 AM
Here's my view.... duplicated from a post elsewhere.....

Posted Wed March 22 2006 07:23
Briefly here's the position - Notebook crashes (blue screen followed by reboot) when trying to use RealPlayer to copy music to my Tungsten E. System log shows an error with an "unknown driver".

Attempts to perform the same operation by copying the tracks directly to a memory card fail with the same error.

SF had been installed with a demo on the notebook. Yesterdays news gives me a clue. Search for SF remnants.... They are in the device manager and active. Remove them using SF automated removal program, then reboot.

After reboot, I can move music onto my PDA, either directly or to the card reader slot.

Replace SF..... Problem returns, Remove it..... Problem disappears again.

Much of this debate has been fuelled by an apparently dodgy article at futuremark, unfortunately this seems to bear the content of that article out. SF appears to be a virtual device driver behaving badly, and on that basis I personally will never purchase a product with StarForce again.

I look after many friends PC's, as a result of my time administering Windows and Linux - I'll be recommending they think long and hard before they buy such software too.

In short totally unacceptable.

Raisen

fordfan25
03-22-2006, 05:00 PM
415 votes are for no. wow if starforce CEO's are right then so far 73% of the users on this site are pirates YAAAAR http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

raisen
03-22-2006, 05:18 PM
Can't find either a skull & crossbones or Pirate hatted smiley..... Yaaar Squiddy, haar haar....

Is it me, or is their a general Simpsons flavour developing here.

Raisen http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

georgeo76
03-22-2006, 09:22 PM
I have something against people that are so careless to give away their freedom... something like my fellow compatriots many years ago.

You know I'm all for that man, but I think this is a queer place to draw the line. I had to take a drug test recently and it gets me thinking. If its reasonable for my employer to know what take into my body just in case I'm a junkie, then it follows to reason that a game developer can install a rootkit just in case I'm a pirate.

bigchump
03-22-2006, 09:59 PM
You know I'm all for that man, but I think this is a queer place to draw the line. I had to take a drug test recently and it gets me thinking. If its reasonable for my employer to know what take into my body just in case I'm a junkie, then it follows to reason that a game developer can install a rootkit just in case I'm a pirate.

What if that drug test trashed your liver whether you're a junkie or not?

That's what can happen to programmers who by necessity have to use the same tools as pirates. Why should we be forced to tolerate our systems being trashed just because a few people use debuggers for cracking? For every pirate, there are probably 10,000 legitimate IT people just trying to earn a living.

Arms1
03-22-2006, 10:21 PM
Originally posted by georgeo76:

You know I'm all for that man, but I think this is a queer place to draw the line. I had to take a drug test recently and it gets me thinking. If its reasonable for my employer to know what take into my body just in case I'm a junkie, then it follows to reason that a game developer can install a rootkit just in case I'm a pirate.

no it doesn't, apples and oranges.

Arms1
03-22-2006, 10:26 PM
i'll still buy bob if it has starforce, that said SF installed at the time of a SH3 install disabled the combo of nero7 and nec dvd i have. working now but a pain to have to fix.

i like the idea of no upgrades unless you have registered.

raisen
03-23-2006, 05:00 AM
>>
You know I'm all for that man, but I think this is a queer place to draw the line. I had to take a drug test recently and it gets me thinking. If its reasonable for my employer to know what take into my body just in case I'm a junkie, then it follows to reason that a game developer can install a rootkit just in case I'm a pirate. <<

Please accept this as it is meant, certainly not as a flame...
Isn't that an example of the kind of erosion of your freedoms that happens when you don't stand up and be counted ? I can see this becoming standard in the UK too soon.

We also have ID cards coming. ID cards have nothing to do with the War on Terror (name a terrorist in any western attack recently that did not have valid identity paperwork ? There were none), and are more about giving tax money to contractors. Citizens will then be expected to buy these cards for around 150 dollars (in addition to the huge per head charge paid by government for their database) according to many estimates. Contractors are going to get rich. As the testing companies do.

I'm law abiding and sick of being treat as a criminal by my own government. Especially a government that is being investigated by or marvellous police force for selling knighthoods. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif


Raisen

georgeo76
03-23-2006, 11:29 AM
I'm sorry not to be clear. I'm not in favor of Star Force.

I compare it to drug testing because the two are very analogous, yet the one that intrudes on your person is acceptable while the the one that intrudes on your computer inspires outrage. I think this focus on the frivolous is typical and ironic.


no it doesn't, apples and oranges.

what is similar about drug testing and DRM?

Both are voluntary. You agree to a EULA or sign a waiver in ether case. You can always choose not to install a game or to work somewhere else. You have to wave some right or privilege to even participate.

Both work on the wide-net principal. Everyone has to prove their innocence up front without any evidence of wrong-doing.

Both target the least common denominator. Casual copiers and weekend drug-users are frustrated while the serious criminal-types are amused at the effort. This calls into question the effectiveness of both doesn't it?


I'm law abiding and sick of being treat as a criminal by my own government

You should be. In the states our liberty is protected pretty well from the government, but very little from our employers. If it weren't' for the fact that we can work somewhere else it would be downright feudal.


Why should we be forced to tolerate our systems being trashed just because a few people use debuggers for cracking?

See, your arguing my point back to me.

WB_Outlaw
03-23-2006, 11:46 AM
Originally posted by georgeo76:
I compare it to drug testing because the two are very analogous, yet the one that intrudes on your person is acceptable while the the one that intrudes on your computer inspires outrage.

A car has wheels and gears. A hot roller for making steel plate has wheels and gears. You don't have to own either one if you don't want to. They are not analagous.

If your employer asked you to take a drug test that killed you if it was positive (or in the rare instances of a false positive) would you agree?

[edit]
A drug test checks for SPECIFIC substances, some of which may be present even if you haven't used any illegal or controlled substances. It does NOT tell an employer what you take into your body.
[end edit]

A drug test is totally passive SF isn't. No analogy at all.

--Outlaw.

georgeo76
03-23-2006, 02:00 PM
Maybe I'm confused. What is the problem with starforce?

Is it that it installs a root-kit, or is it that the root-kit may cause damage?

You see, I don't like being monitored. Even if the software ran perfectly and caused no problems. I don't think that I should have to prove I'm not a pirate to play a game. In the same way I don't think I should have to prove I'm not a druggie to get a job. It's a respect thing.

raisen
03-23-2006, 02:58 PM
>>Is it that it installs a root-kit, or is it that the root-kit may cause damage?<<

Either and/or both, or even that it's an unintentional side effect, which in my view most of the problems are.

>>If it weren't' for the fact that we can work somewhere else it would be downright feudal.
<<

Got that right. We haven't had widespread mandatory testing here yet, but doubtless it will come. Some of my friends have been required to take blood tests by a financial company to prove that they are giving up smoking (of tobacco folks....) or lose their job. They walked, and I don't blame them.

>>
You should be. In the states our liberty is protected pretty well from the government, but very little from our employers.
<<

Purely from personal interest, I guess you'd say off topic - Is any of the US constitution still suspended as a result of Homeland Security, or did Congress throw that out ?

Our own government tried to get an act passed that would have allowed detention without charge for 90 days, thankfully, it was rejected.

Libertarians of the left and right unite I say.....

Raisen

dglasal
03-24-2006, 04:55 PM
I rarely add to any of these comments, but this particular threat has erked me. As I read through the posts, I am amazed by the lack of understanding of our world. May I ask for a moment to clarify some aspects of this discussion.

1. Address the reason for the actions of companies not the company's response. I see more posts complaining about what a company is doing in response to unethical people rather than addressing WHY they are doing it. What is our solution to UBI's concerns over piracy? E-mail/telephone your solutions.

2. Drug testing for employment. Consequences, responsibility, accountability. Companies are held to account for the actions of their employees resulting in lawsuits, excess medical expenses, property damage, etc. This has raised operating expenses to excessively high levels. If people were to hold themselves accountable to what they do than this would not be happening.

3. U.S. Constitution: It has been eroding for 150 years. What is taking place now is not a surge but a response to current problems. It does not matter if you agree or disagree, but they are taking place. If you understand all the things we, as a society, demand today then you will understand. If you do not, I ask you to study the constitution, especially the The Federalist Papers, and you will be surprised by what you think the government should do is actually against the constitution.

Okay, I'm off my soapbox.

raisen
03-24-2006, 07:06 PM
I respect your views, but I can't agree with them. After all, it has been these aspects of life that have differentiated free democracies and their citizens from those less fortunate in historical terms.

Todays more restrictive and prescriptive views smell to me like the bad old days of big government, and government that fails to recognise just whose money it's spending, let alone who it's working for.

Hell I'm still angry that the UK in the 21st century still lacks a written constitution of any description.

Now I'll get off my soapbox and shake your hand http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Raisen

midfingr
03-24-2006, 07:07 PM
I still don't see any 'solutions' here. Bethesda, publisher of the latest Elder Scrolls game, answered customer concerns very quickly in their forums. The 'S word ' will not be in the product. End of discussion. E-mails aside.

People do not want to be told what to do with their lives. Posts on this forum and thousands of others have made that very clear.

Ubisoft is based in France. Most 'S-word' protected games are in Europe. I live in Canada, where Ubisoft has a large development team. What does the U.S. Constition have to do with this? Are you assuming everyone here resides in the U.S.? Take another guess.

I feel you have insulted me and others who've researched these issues for months. Please do the same before posting these kind of comments.

raisen
03-24-2006, 08:35 PM
I've insulted you how exactly ? I've been researching this issue myself for the better part of two years. Please don't flame, because I have stayed civil thus far.

I'm British by the way, with more American friends than most, and admit my last couple of posts are off topic rambling stemming initially from georgeo76 posts. Nice to find folk willing to debate without recourse to flaming.

Guilty of rambling.

Raisen

Gatt59
03-25-2006, 04:47 AM
More bad news:

http://www.techamok.com/?pid=377

raisen
03-25-2006, 09:37 AM
Just read the article. Can't say that it looks like any behaviour that I've seen. I do have mapped network drives - it's how I store the masters of digital photographs, rather than clog up the solitary hard drive of my notebook.

I must say that it does indeed seem unlikely.

I'm not convinced for or against the view that the instability suffered in some hardware/software configurations is intentional. Trouble is, it can only be intentional or unintentional, and either is unacceptable from a ring0 virtual device driver capable of crashing a PC.

Hey, I'm back on topic.... for once.

Raisen

dglasal
03-25-2006, 11:08 AM
Mr. Midfingr, my comments reference the U.S. constitution is based on comments made by others about said document. I fully know, understand, and appreciate that every corner of the world is represented here.

midfingr
03-26-2006, 11:51 AM
Hi all.
Some interesting news about SF and it's software.
You can view it at this link (http://www.r-force.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=46&mode=&order=0&thold=0).

raisen
03-27-2006, 12:41 PM
Interesting, but hardly good journalism. I feel uncomfortable about posting the content of PM's too. I know how he feels about the problems with their protection system, but I sure don't agree with his tactics.

People may get the idea I'm anti protection technology, I'm not. I'm anti bad protection tech that introduces problems with the legitimate uses for which my PC was purchased.

Raisen

Bartolomeo_ita
03-27-2006, 01:09 PM
the steam solution works well. ubi should thinks a better way to protect his (our) software cuz starforce sucks!

raisen
03-27-2006, 03:40 PM
I've used Steam, with Half Life 2, I was quite impressed. Only drawback that I can see, is that it makes broadband almost mandatory. Dial-up remains the most popular way of accessing the internet for most users worldwide I suspect.

Raisen

Hologram3
03-27-2006, 03:56 PM
Originally posted by raisen:
I've used Steam, with Half Life 2, I was quite impressed. Only drawback that I can see, is that it makes broadband almost mandatory.

There's another drawback, too. Your computer has to be online with Steam. My gaming computer is not online and it never will be. If that's a requirement in order to play a game, I'll pass, like I did with HL2.

Manuel29
03-27-2006, 04:01 PM
I like the R-Factor's way; unique cdkey usable 3 times and after these the cdkey is retired and the customer gets a new one, and so on...

Bt this works well only for multiplayer.

VF2_Sarge
03-28-2006, 05:17 PM
I know about the poor performace from a pc that has had a game with SF installed onto it. But has any one had internet performance issues? I have a BRAND NEW pc, and recently installed LOMAC w/ the 1.12a patch, and I am now have issues with game play and internet performance in both PF and LOMAC.

raisen
03-28-2006, 05:39 PM
>>now have issues with game play and internet performance in both PF and <<

I'm assuming that you do have both firewall and virus scanning software - if not then the cause may well be right there.

First of all I'd check that you don't have any of the more accepted spyware risks or other nasties - scan your system with a good virus scanner and some good spyware detection/removal tools. It's completely possible to do your machine a nasty with anti virus/spyware tools, so follow the instructions for those programs.

There's a chance that this alone will fix your problems. If it doesn't... then move on to the next step.

>>Very, Very Important<< Be aware that you should probably remove the package that SF was installed with before attempting to remove SF itself. Be aware that removing drivers can have destructive results. Use the tools from SF's website, and follow their instructions to the letter. Certainly if you remove SF, you will not be able to use the game it came with unless you reinstall SF - the easiest way is to reinstall the whole game, this wont necessarily work if manually remove SF first.

Remove and replace SF I'd say. Remember that because you're chopping and changing drivers you will have to reboot the system after removal and installation in order for changes to take effect. If the problems go away when SF does, then that's the problem.

I don't recall it ever attempting to do anything weird or otherwise paranoia inducing like phoning home - just the symptoms I described elsewhere

I can't say with any authority whether SF does or doesn't cause degraded network performance, There's all together too little good objective information about to come to an objective opinion about that, but there does appear to be performance related problems in some circumstances.

Hope the information is pitched correctly for you.

Raisen

VF2_Sarge
03-28-2006, 06:18 PM
Ok...thanks.

v/r

raisen
03-30-2006, 09:26 AM
did you manage to get sorted ?

Raisen

WWSensei
03-30-2006, 09:32 AM
Originally posted by Hologram3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by raisen:
I've used Steam, with Half Life 2, I was quite impressed. Only drawback that I can see, is that it makes broadband almost mandatory.

There's another drawback, too. Your computer has to be online with Steam. My gaming computer is not online and it never will be. If that's a requirement in order to play a game, I'll pass, like I did with HL2. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, that's not true. You simply start Steam up and tell it you are in offline mode and then you can play.

raisen
03-30-2006, 09:41 AM
Granted you can play offline, but you still need to connect after the initial installation (or at least I think you do) and to make the best use of the automated updates.

Raisen

vonStahlhelm
03-30-2006, 10:07 AM
i will buy BoB no matter if it has starforce or nor - its a "must have" game. but that means not that i like starforce protection. a copyprotection that goes so deep in the system is a bad thing.
ok, i have Silent hunter 3 with no problems - but a friend of mine has big troubles with the starforce protection and its cost his last nerve - he deinstalled SH3 and selled it to a secondhandshop. but the trouble does not end - the starforce protection was not completily deinstalled and caused many troubels for him.
im not against copyprotection - but i think starforce is not a good solution. it can harm your system and in the way it works its an act of mistrust against the customers. in fact starforce has been cracked for many times and
the only people wich are really suffered from heavy copyprotection are the honest customers.
cracks are a bad thing for the companys and the customers to - but copyprotection wich can suffer your system and can cause the loss of data are not an answer.

Hologram3
03-30-2006, 10:26 AM
Originally posted by WWSensei:Actually, that's not true. You simply start Steam up and tell it you are in offline mode and then you can play.

From what I understand, Steam still connects over the web once a week or so to validate. You don't have to be online to play, but you do to validate. This means I'd have to install and update all kinds of anti-virus/anti-spyware/firewall programs just to play the game, and NO game is worth that.

Just my .02 worth.

raisen
03-30-2006, 09:09 PM
>> will buy BoB no matter if it has starforce or nor - its a "must have" game.<<

I'd dearly love to have it, but because I use my machines for work and play, there is no chance of me installing any further SF infested packages on any of my various PC's. Not a hope. Personal choice based on my need to use my computers for other things than flightsimming or GTL.

>>This means I'd have to install and update all kinds of anti-virus/anti-spyware/firewall programs just to play the game, and NO game is worth that.<<

My machines are all web connected. All of them get used for research/coding/etc etc.... Even viewing a web page or email is a risk without av/anti-spy/firewall software.

I think the overhead - CPU time and memory - is tolerable even for gaming and that going unprotected is unacceptable where a machine connects to the web. Because of the way some worms propagate it can also be plain anti social, dragging down web performance for many users. Check out the bad news on this sort of stuff on many anti virus websites.

Two friends recently had broadband installed in their homes. Whilst intelligent, neither are IT buffs. Ones a theologian, the other a stage magician not necessarily the type attracted to computing. Neither could wait for assistance and simply slapped their machines online. Both were infected whilst idling. One within an hour.

Cleanup was a royal pain. No backup of a doctorate thesis one of the PC's meant that rather than simply reinstall (a realistic option on one machine - barely built - no data), battle was joined (and won) with the halfwit script kiddies contribution to web dross.

If you can keep your gaming PC isolated - OK. But online multiplayer is generally a better experience (code and net performance allowing), because no human being can code an AI that is as dangerous as a skilled human.

Raisen

fordfan25
03-31-2006, 01:34 AM
Originally posted by raisen:
Granted you can play offline, but you still need to connect after the initial installation (or at least I think you do) and to make the best use of the automated updates.

Raisen yes. and the "unlock files" i think its called and game update "feature" of steam is horibly slow. for me and my friends at least. after the game is completly working and when steam is completly working its fine. i my self hate steam...less than i do starforce but the hate is still there. not realy darth vader on sand people "starwars" hate ....more like Sam on Golem "LotR" hate. you know were you cant stand the sound of there breathing hate. were the sight of them even eating fills you with a white nearly blinding rage. kinda like owning a chevy hate.......frikn chevy ..... check engien light...flipn stupid Gm ... grumble ...waisted day at the dealer.....shoulda bought a ford....... HU!?? o sorry was a rambling again. hehe its 3:30 in the morning and i cant stop playing oblivion to sleep so i may be going just a little insain3. just ignore me ill be fine....cant seem to stop typeing though.....what the h*** is wrong with me ....... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif ...... so how about another cup of coffie. any 1 else want some? i can E-mail it to you http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gif ok im going to bed now.

raisen
03-31-2006, 07:51 AM
Hiya Fordfan25.
I reckon that the reason I don't mind Steam is probably because I'm sat on the end of an 8MB/s adsl line. If I still relied on my old dial up link, I'd most likely be biting chunks out of the carpet. Steam doesn't appear to be interfering with anything else my PC does either of course, which is a bonus. The "unlock files" thing did appear to take a while on my PC, but I don't recall it being objectionable.


>>The off topic bit (do not read if of a sensitive disposition)<<
I actually enjoyed Half Life 2, but found that overall, it played too much at times like a tech demonstration rather than a game. Certinly not much lateral thought required.

Raisen

fordfan25
03-31-2006, 11:57 AM
Originally posted by raisen:
Hiya Fordfan25.
I reckon that the reason I don't mind Steam is probably because I'm sat on the end of an 8MB/s adsl line. If I still relied on my old dial up link, I'd most likely be biting chunks out of the carpet. Steam doesn't appear to be interfering with anything else my PC does either of course, which is a bonus. The "unlock files" thing did appear to take a while on my PC, but I don't recall it being objectionable.


>>The off topic bit (do not read if of a sensitive disposition)<<
I actually enjoyed Half Life 2, but found that overall, it played too much at times like a tech demonstration rather than a game. Certinly not much lateral thought required.

Raisen yea heck im on a 256bit dsl now but even when i was on 3.0 it was a little on the slow side. and yea so far i cant trace any problems to steam. like i was saying i dont care for it at all but i dont agrasivly object to it the way i do starfart. ....man was i sleepy last night. my last post makes no sense now. maby ill read it late tonight to figure out what i was sayn LOL http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif