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Emotep
10-30-2004, 05:27 PM
When your plane stalls and you spin, how do you recover from it?

TX-WarHawk
10-30-2004, 05:29 PM
Throttle down, use your rudder in the opposite direction of the spin, pull your nose down, and hope you just have enough altitude left to get out of it alive.

Atomic_Marten
10-30-2004, 05:29 PM
Cut throttle, apply contra-rudder (in opposite direction of your spin), and joystick down (nose of the a/c down). That's about it (although there are minor differences about recovery technique from plane to plane).

Bearcat99
10-30-2004, 05:31 PM
What stall!! Planes dont stall in PF!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
(At least thats what gamestops review said....)

TX-WarHawk
10-30-2004, 05:36 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Atomic_Marten:
Cut throttle, apply contra-rudder (in opposite direction of your spin), and joystick down (nose of the a/c down). QUOTE]


Is there an echo in here... Is there an echo in here... Is there an echo in here... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/354.gif

Atomic_Marten
10-30-2004, 05:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TX-WarHawk:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Atomic_Marten:
Cut throttle, apply contra-rudder (in opposite direction of your spin), and joystick down (nose of the a/c down). QUOTE]


Is there an echo in here... Is there an echo in here... Is there an echo in here... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/354.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh no, no echo, although it may seem so in the first view. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Take notice on the thread post time, yours and mine (most likely seconds were in question http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif).

TX-WarHawk
10-30-2004, 05:56 PM
I know that, I looked at it right before posting. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

I think I found my lost twin brutha!!!

Soapy_112th
10-30-2004, 06:42 PM
If the cut power/nose down/ opposite rudder approach is not working and you are in a flat spin, you can, in an emergeny apply full flaps too, however if you recover from the stall they might be jammed, but it beats hitting the ground in a dizzy mess. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

e5kimo
10-31-2004, 04:42 PM
what people have said .. full rudder oposite direction to spin and nose down. if however you dont gain speed within the first 10 seconds of your recovery attempt and your air speed stays at a critical level (say 20-70km/h) it is best to abandon the plane and hit the silk as you are likely to have entered a flat spin from which it is almost impossible to recover.

Latico
10-31-2004, 05:58 PM
With the exception of reducing power, I do all the above mentioned. By keeping the ppower up you force air across the rear control surfaces to help counter the spin and get the nose down. I haven't tried using the flaps, though.

BTW, I bailed from a flat spin one time. I fell faster than the plane until my chute opened. Then the plane came down on top of me and I died.

FA_Maddog
10-31-2004, 06:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Latico:
With the exception of reducing power, I do all the above mentioned. By keeping the ppower up you force air across the rear control surfaces to help counter the spin and get the nose down. I haven't tried using the flaps, though.

BTW, I bailed from a flat spin one time. I fell faster than the plane until my chute opened. Then the plane came down on top of me and I died. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


You have my kind of luck. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Dane_Fahler
10-31-2004, 08:17 PM
I am glad someone asked this cause I was about to. I knew from flight school (although we practiced stalls but never spins) I knew to apply full opposite rudder and pull the power off as to not aggrivate the stall. However, I am with the poster on this one, I don't believe I have successfully pulled out of one yet. I believe to date... Yep, I am sure of it now, I have rode them all in.

Haven't tried the flaps yet myself either but I find that these planes depart rather quickly. I don't recall my cessna even being this touchy.

Are these violent spins brought on a lot by cross control stalls? From school we were always tought that cross controlled stalls were some of the worst ones to get into.

thoughts?

ruekesj
10-31-2004, 09:53 PM
weeee! stalls and spins are fun!
IL2 & PF planes don't stall http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif
i find it helps to cut the throttle to 1/4, NO AILERON, rudder opposite the direction of the spin, nose down.

but you don't need to know because IL2 & PF planes won't stall http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

they'll do nice wingover insipient spins, but they won't ever stall.

Hunde_3.JG51
10-31-2004, 10:09 PM
I have played IL-2 since the beginning and have put alot of flight time in, and I really don't see how people are stalling planes like Hellcat, Corsair, Zero, etc in PF without being a total stick barbarian. I have my joystick settings very sensitive and I still can barely stall those planes even during ridiculous maneuvers.

Anyway, just one more suggestion. I have recovered from some flat spins by also putting my landing gear down and retracting it when I start to recover. This only when my airspeed is extremely low and in a flat spin with alot of altitude.

VW-IceFire
10-31-2004, 10:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hunde_3.JG51:
I have played IL-2 since the beginning and have put alot of flight time in, and I really don't see how people are stalling planes like Hellcat, Corsair, Zero, etc in PF without being a total stick barbarian. I have my joystick settings very sensitive and I still can barely stall those planes even during ridiculous maneuvers.

Anyway, just one more suggestion. I have recovered from some flat spins by also putting my landing gear down and retracting it when I start to recover. This only when my airspeed is extremely low and in a flat spin with alot of altitude. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
And yet I've managed to tag a bunch of Wildcat/Hellcat/Corsair guys while they stalled the heck out of their aircraft. It was quite odd...but hey, works for me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

lindyman
11-01-2004, 02:10 AM
Since I assume you're not talking about intentional spins, the first thing to do is to make sure you don't spin. That's easy to do.

At the very first sign of a stall, reduce back pressure on the stick. Move it forwards until the buffeting goes away (or is at least reduced to a level you know is safe.) That's the only way to save your butt.

If you've ignored the warnings of the aircraft, and find yourself in an unintentional spin, most of the tips above are correct, except I'd definitely *NOT* apply power, since that increases the likelyhood of getting into a flat spin. If neutral stick, throttle idle, full opposite rudder doesn't do it, try aileron *into* the spin. The idea is that this reduces the AoA of the inner wing, and adverse yaw slows the rotation, so it can help.

If this doesn't help, it may be a flat spin, in which case the thing to do is quite counter-intuitive. Apply full pro-spin controls, i.e. full elevator, full rudder into the spin, and possibly aileron out of the spin. Chances are fairly good that this transforms the flat spin into a normal spin, from which the technique above almost always works. However... not all planes can recover from a flat spin, so don't go there.
_
/Bjorn.

Tully__
11-01-2004, 03:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dane_Fahler:
Are these violent spins brought on a lot by cross control stalls? From school we were always tought that cross controlled stalls were some of the worst ones to get into. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

These really violent stall/spin characteristics seem mostly to be due to a challenge faced by all flight sim programmers, not just 1C:Maddox games. The challenge is to accurately model the extremely complex airflow and inertial effects that are in play in aircraft right at the edge of the flight envelop. With the computing power available in current household computers it is simply not possible to accurately model these behaviours and give us a pretty view and control a bunch of AI objects and manage multiple net connections and track several hundred ballistic objects (bullets) and monitor collisions and manage damage modelling all at the same time. Something has to suffer.

As the idea is not to stall in the first place, I don't mind some slightly exaggerated stall/spin behaviour to encourage me to fly right http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Siege_Dog
11-01-2004, 06:07 AM
I disagree Tully. Sometimes it's beneficial to put yourself into an insipient spin (Also known as a snap-roll). I did it earlier today with my new copy of PF in order to avoid a burning Betty over Papua New Guinea. It was a thing of beauty.

Another good trick to recover from a flat spin is to loosen off your shoulder harness and lean forward in your seat. That'll get the aircraft's centre-of gravity forward slightly and help you pitch nose down. (That's why nobody gets spin training in Piper Tommahawks).

Also never recover from a spin using aileron input. That will put you in a spiral dive which is very dangerous. My old flying instructor was a nav in F111's in the RAAF. I received many slaps in the back of the head during my aerobatics training for even slight aileron use in spins. The man did teach me how to fly a good formation though http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

anthonyl59
11-01-2004, 06:09 AM
Simple really..HIT THE AUTOPILOT BUTTON!

JG51Beolke
11-01-2004, 06:50 AM
For Left spin, Chop throttle, Full Right and down stick, and full right rudder if your in a left spinn. Just the opposite for a right spin.

You may have to rock her a little bit to get the nose down if the spin's a little flat.

Mysticpuma2003
11-01-2004, 08:24 AM
Check out the download page for "47 heaven" on my site. At the bottom of the page is a video showing a stall and recovery with a voiceover tutorial.

it can be found here.

http://www.aqqm31.dsl.pipex.com

TX-EcoDragon
11-02-2004, 02:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cwestman:
I disagree Tully. Sometimes it's beneficial to put yourself into an insipient spin (Also known as a snap-roll). I did it earlier today with my new copy of PF in order to avoid a burning Betty over Papua New Guinea. It was a thing of beauty.

Another good trick to recover from a flat spin is to loosen off your shoulder harness and lean forward in your seat. That'll get the aircraft's centre-of gravity forward slightly and help you pitch nose down. (That's why nobody gets spin training in Piper Tommahawks).

Also never recover from a spin using aileron input. That will put you in a spiral dive which is very dangerous. My old flying instructor was a nav in F111's in the RAAF. I received many slaps in the back of the head during my aerobatics training for even slight aileron use in spins. The man did teach me how to fly a good formation though http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Add the snap roll to your bag of tricks, which includes the recovery and you should never find yourself in an inadvertant spin. Fast recovery inputs will usually stop the departure in at least by 1/4 to 1/2 rotation (90 to 180 degrees of roll) and you will loose the minimal amount of energy possible if you made the mistake of inducing a spin. The basic entry and recovery inputs are nearly the same for each (they are in fact pretty much the same maneuver but one is accelerated one isn't), given that all of the "stalls" in the sim act like accelerated stalls the speed of the recovery you use for one carries over well to the other. That said, I generally would agree with Tully that it isn't going to be very useful in most circumstances. Well, I guess I like when the guy ahead of me does it, then I know where he is about to be (spin/roll are predictable), and I also have a nice flat surface to fire at => BOOM!

In the sim the ailerons have pretty much no effect as they do in the real world, however power often does, such that an increase in power will flatten the spin and reduce the chance of recovery as well. On the other hand every now and then a patch comes out or in certain planes I find that they will not recover with power off isntead tehy enter this thing that looks like a spiral but still acts as if the surfaces aren't flying (ie stalled). Irritating I must say. In short, start with the standard method (the PARE method is much like the NASA standard method, and both are the standard manner in which to recover) this is

P.ower Off
A.ilerons Neutral
R.udder Opposite (the direction of rotation)
E.levator through neautral (usually pretty far forward in the sim)

Oh and sadly people do get spin training in Tomahawks despite what has been revealed about their certification fiasco and bad habits.

effte
11-03-2004, 08:52 AM
cwestman,
if you have an empty Corsair (4070 kg) with the CoG at roughly 1/3 chord, 3.06 m from spinner, and the pilot at 4,59 m from the spinner, even if the pilot managed to move his entire mass forward by half a meter (which is an absurd thought), the CoG would only move forward by 14 millimetres. With a fully loaded Corsair (4760 kg), it is down to 12 mm.

For a Cessna Skylane at BEW, the CoG would move a staggering 5 cm. At MTOW 3 cm.

In other words, the WoB you have set yourself up with before the flight is what you have to deal with. Keep that harness tight, it'll at least save you from banging against the canopy.

OTOH, when I need to take a whiz in the glider and take it out... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Edit: I thought I should be a bit constructive as well. Rocking your way out of a flat spin is often a good idea. Using the controls will often get a result, even if it will not get you out of the spin. Start pumping the elevator, feeding the pitch oscillation which, with a bit if luck, develops. Eventually, they will increase in magnitude to the point where you on the downstroke regain normal airflow and control. Also an approved method to get out of superstalls/deep stalls.

Cheers,
Fred