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sailorman.jim
08-14-2007, 11:54 AM
Roberto has brought up a good point (meaning a question where I have no idea, Heh Heh). When bombing ships, it seems that a direct hit is required to do any damage. But in real life, a 500 or 1000 lb bomb exploding in the water and near the hull would be the equivalent of a torpedo of similar size. The over pressure of the water would crush the hull of many ships. Even an aircraft carrier or a cruiser would not withstand a few of these. Something like a destroyer would be well, destroyed.

Is there some setting in IL2 that simulates this? Yes, you may conclude from this that we are both better at surface attacks than aerial combat. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif

J_A_M_F_
08-14-2007, 02:43 PM
Yes, it's called skip-bombing. You set the delay of a bomb to uhm... 2 seconds or something.. then you fly at mast height towards the bow and drop the bomb as it disappears out of the gunsight. Practise it a few times.

buzzsaw1939
08-14-2007, 02:43 PM
sailorman....I think you will find that the damage modeling in here is one of the things that is lacking, however I did notice,(one time) there was extra smoke comeing out of the stack after a near miss, but it might have been the wiper just blowing the tubes! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

sailorman.jim
08-14-2007, 03:24 PM
Thanks for the replies. But the skip bombing only does something if the bomb actually strikes the ship. What I was looking for was a near-miss, alongside the hull, that would cause damage. Lots of ships were sunk when their hulls imploded from a near miss. The shock wave from 500 pounds of TNT will buckle quite a strong steel hull.

A good recent example was the USS Cole. I have pictures of a really large hole made by the C-4 bomb that was only close to the ship. If it had been 5 or ten feet under water, the Cole might have sunk.

gdfo
08-14-2007, 04:00 PM
The near miss damage is not modeled in the game. A bomb exploding in the water very close to a real ship will do damage. Not so in IL-2

I think it would have been to hard to program at the time the game was created.

sailorman.jim
08-14-2007, 07:30 PM
Yep, I think you are probably right. Although you would not have to show actual damage below the waterline, the ship could just list appropriately, and eventually sink if it were bad enough or often enough. If someone could write a patch for this, it would be very cool.

buzzsaw1939
08-15-2007, 07:49 PM
Sailorman... I just when back and looked at that one I mentioned above, although it was a 1600 lb bomb, and I didn't stick around to see if it sank, or listed, it dose show damage. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gifhttp://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa103/buzzsaw1939/1.jpg http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa103/buzzsaw1939/2.jpg http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa103/buzzsaw1939/3.jpg http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa103/buzzsaw1939/4.jpg

Zeus-cat
08-15-2007, 10:05 PM
buzzsaw1939,

The ship above was damaged, but it didn't sink. As long as smoke is coming out of the smokestack, it makes a wake or the guns are firing, the ship is not sinking.

buzzsaw1939
08-15-2007, 11:11 PM
Thanks Zeus-Cat... I wasn't sure, now I know!
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Kamikaze_239
08-16-2007, 04:38 AM
I tried it with a JU88 with 2 SC2000 bombs (Tht's the real work) and I dropped them at a destroyer, they missed with a few metres, but the destroyer was destroyed and sank. So, I think: Or the near-miss-still-kill IS modelled in the game or, it sank because it were the two heaviest bombs you can get in IL2 (with exception for the Mistel and FAB-5000).

So, is it the bomb or the game??? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

sailorman.jim
08-16-2007, 06:05 AM
That is exactly the kind of thing I was expecting to see with near misses with 1000 lb bombs. Perhaps the problem is not that the damage modeling does not exist, but that it is not sensitive enough. I will try this and see if I can get a couple of bombs to hit right next to the hulls of some smaller ships.

Normally, I am out of there so fast on bomb runs (I tend to go in pretty fast and low) that I don't get a good look at where they hit.

If it is a question of sensitivity, that would be easy for the developers to fix.

sailorman.jim
08-16-2007, 01:44 PM
Well, that was a learning experience! Humbling, too. I found out a few things by trying to get near misses. Using the SBD-3 and a 1600 lb bomb, I would go in at 1/4 speed, release, hit pause, then F2, and adjust to get a good look at what was happening. Here's what I found.

First, a lot of what I thought were near misses were not even close. The modeling for bomb drops is better than I thought. Most were way overshoots.

Next, near misses are harder to get than hits, it seems.

Finally, a near miss on a destroyer did sink it. But near misses on the carrier and cruiser didn't seem to have any effect at all.

I am taking screen shots and when I get something that shows a really good example, I will post them.

Thanks to everyone again for the input. Roberto is coming over tonight and I will be able to show off some more. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Zeus-cat
08-16-2007, 09:26 PM
The ship damage modelling is very simple in this game. The larger ships can take several bomb hits and not show damage. A rough rule of thumb is that damage will show up when the ship has taken 50% of the hit points required to sink it.

Zeus-cat
08-16-2007, 09:29 PM
You sound like a real pilot in that you think every bomb you dropped was a direct hit.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

sailorman.jim
08-17-2007, 05:53 AM
That certanly seems to be true. I have been able to sink destroyers with near misses, but carriers and cruisers still have to show any damage. I am confident that a 1600 lb bomb exploding in the water a couple of feet from a carrier hull would at least induce some listing until counter flooding could be done.

One other thing I have noticed from my experiments the last two days. As with gunfire, the closer you are, the more effective are the bombs. This is a sort of flaw because 1000 lbs of explosives has pretty much the same results when it hits. It doesn't matter if they were dropped from 1000 feet or 10,000 feet. It will still change your state from a coherent collection of chemicals to a hot cloud of vapor. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

The same can be said of cannon fire. When an explosive shell hits aluminum, it doesn't matter much how far away it was when fired. The turds will still interact with the turbine, as they say.

It makes me wonder how difficult this would be to change?

sailorman.jim
08-17-2007, 06:32 AM
The pics (finally!) I have more, but I think that's enough for one post. The carrier never showed any damage from repeated near misses while the destroyer went down like a well, like an economy-priced young lady of ill-repute.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/Hosheen/CarrierNear2.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/Hosheen/CarrierNear5.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/Hosheen/DestroyerNear3.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/Hosheen/DestroyerSink.jpg