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MS_Siwarrior
05-11-2005, 05:30 AM
Am i a noob if i ram bombers online as last restort, eg run out of ammo, engine failure, player wounded etc?
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

MADP
05-11-2005, 05:40 AM
I'm trying to perfect the verticle stabilizer attack. I discovered it by accident one day when I went under a TB-3's right wing in a 109 and sliced his wing right off with my vert stab. The TB-3 fell like a lead weight and the 109 lost the entire vert stab but flew on just fine. Not the easiest way to get a kill but it works!

Von_Zero
05-11-2005, 06:01 AM
Am i a noob if i ram bombers online as last restort, eg run out of ammo, engine failure, player wounded etc?
IMO, yes, i interpret it as lack of honor and skill (unless, obviously it was unnintentionated). If the bomber pilot was skilled enough to survive the attacks, or if the interceptor wasn't skilled enough to down it, then it deserves to get back home... beside that you can always call a team mate on TS to finjish the bomber, if you think it's a too big menace for the mission goal. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

MajorBloodnok
05-11-2005, 06:02 AM
Originally posted by MS_Siwarrior:
Am i a noob if i ram bombers online as last restort, eg run out of ammo, engine failure, player wounded etc?
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif The 'Taran' was a common tactic used by the Russians on the Eastern Front so you would be perfectly historically correct in doing this. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

SeaFireLIV
05-11-2005, 06:08 AM
If you did this in some online Campaign such as VEF or VWF then I would say you`re not a noob for it.

But if you did it on a standard respawn server then I would say it is noobish. I say this because on VEF it actually costs you to die, but on a standard server it`s just REFLY. There`s no fear of losing your pilot.

It would be ok on one of these `get kicked for 5 minutes if die` servers.

Finally if you manage a Taran but LIVE then you`re not a noob for it.

Technically noob would only really apply if you crash into planes because you just can`t fly and fight correctly, but if you run out of ammo and the target plane is about to bomb/destroy a friendly then I think even a Veteran Ace could try a collision.

LEBillfish
05-11-2005, 08:02 AM
I never as policy try and stab kill a "live" piloted or medium bomber. Meaning, if it has two engines or is flown by a player (which makes it simple as we have no 4 engined flyable bombers).

However, 4 engined heavy bombers in "late war, protecting the homeland" scenario's I always will if flying Japanese, yet never as German.

That's just how I do it, I never try to deliberately ram a player flown plane. However if you watch, you'll often find pilots pull rediculous manuevers to get you to over shoot...Naturally griping if you clip them. At that point don't sweat it......"Takes 2 planes to collide".....

The times when I make the mistake of coming in too fast or getting to close so "all" my fault I appologize...Do it too much in one night time to stop flying till tomorrow. Just "my" way.

Tooz_69GIAP
05-11-2005, 08:37 AM
Well, colliding with bombers was done done by the germans as well. There was an operation late in the war (late '44 or early '45) by the luftwaffe where they got together around 300 old aircraft, and flew up into the bomber streams and rammed the B-17s, or sliced into them with the props, etc.

I read about this in Tail End Charlies. The project was supposed to have around 3,500 aircraft allovated to it, but the project was continually scaled back, until they only had 300 aircraft.

The idea was for the pilot to fly the fighter into the bomber, and bail out. These were not suicide missions. And for the most part, the pilots did manage to get out, but the bombers, although heavily damaged in some cases, flew on. The germans underestimated the endurance and toughness of the boeing airframe!!

So, colliding with a bomber on purpose to down it is a legitimate tactic. However, in this game of ours, for the most part, it's not really worth it.

Gog..
05-11-2005, 10:00 AM
That's garbage. The number of deliberate 'taran' attacks or ramming of enemy bombers in relation to sorties flown by fighters was miniscule, in WW2.

To ram bombers deliberately on-line is a sure sign that you are a c r a p pilot that should be playing something else.

If you think it is a legitimate tactic, p i s s off back to the Playstation where you belong.

Or, learn how to use the guns in your plane and actually shoot down the bombers you big nancy boys.

Your pathetic, the lot of you rammers! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

BBB_Hyperion
05-11-2005, 10:36 AM
For DF Mode Only (No refly on coop)
Everyone that crashes into a Bomber if accidently or not should be forced to fly one on next refly to know what it feels to fly endless miles and beeing bounced by incompetent pilots who shoot all their ammo everywhere but on target and end up in ramming course they are are out of ammo. That rule applied to mk108 and similar gun users who feel like they archived something shooting poor bombers would surely cure some and maybe they search greater challenges than this. Shooting down Bombers is sometimes necessary but it isnt a that high archivement with rockets or >=20 mm guns.

Deedsundone
05-11-2005, 11:10 AM
Think like this:If you fly a bomber,would you like to be rammed?
I prefer no to be rammed but I won´t start to yell at anyone who do it (maybe for myself a bit http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif)

Fennec_P
05-11-2005, 11:52 AM
People who fly bombers deserve respect. They are nice enough to fly a target for you, you should be nice enough not to blam into them and force them to refly (or worse, force them to disco from a co-op), without even giving a sporting chance. They can't get to 6000m in 3 minutes like you can.

I feel dirty using MK108 on bombers, or even a 4 cannon plane. B-29 or B-24, maybe; they have dangerous defensive guns, but TB-3 or Heinkel? That is like clubbing a baby seal. Best to go MG only and take off the pilots head, and celebrate your leetness.

In real life, yes, some pilots would ram planes. Because they were noobs, and wasted all their ammo, and they ended up dead! Just because the 'refly' button is there for you, doesn't mean you should be racing to kill yourself, especially if you are taking other players with you.

LuckyBoy1
05-11-2005, 12:03 PM
If I'm out of ammo and the bomber still has his eggs, I will consider ramming him if nobody else is around to stop him before he reaches the target. You can call this lack of skill or lack of honor all you want and in response I will just whip you the Russina Eagle! (5 times more powerfull than American bird!)

bolillo_loco
05-11-2005, 12:22 PM
catch that pidgeon, catch that pidgeon, catch that pidgeon how......smash him, bash him, ram him catch that pidgeon now!

LStarosta
05-11-2005, 02:23 PM
Why do you care what others think? It's like being a 13 year old and asking if Green Day is still punk. Who cares? If you can still enjoy their music, it doesn't matter.

Wow.. I love these analogies.

Bandit.426Cdn
05-11-2005, 02:34 PM
I fly the Mitchell and A-20 almost exclusively on the various servers i frequent .. ramming is far more common on the 'wonder woman' and full icon servers than on the full real servers.

After spending 15 minutes clawing my way up to 5000 meters, then trying to find a less than direct route, away from the fighter-furballs, to target, nothing peeves me off more than some fighter nimrod who purposefully rams me. If it happens more than 2-3 times in short order, i'm usually done with online play for that evening.

The ones who ram unintentionally, i have no problem with - it's either due to too high closing speed, a fighter PK from one of my AI sniper gunners, or my desperate jinking to get away. But when i'm flying straight and level, manning the tail-gunners position, and some numpty comes swooping into my belly after expending all his ammo.. it's obvious when it's on purpose - and i don't consider that a part of the game - it's someone who's playing a different sort of Quakefest, where the kill is more important above all other factors, including their own survival.

I don't mind being a target for fighter's ammo, i enjoy it in fact... but i don't enjoy being rammed like it's a virtual game of man sech and i just dropped the soap..

JamesBlonde888
05-11-2005, 04:22 PM
Would you really bend one of the govenment's nice shiny new crates on purpose? You utter cad! You're chopped.

Really! I mean think... wouldn't it be better to make it back to the mess for a scotch and some Dorothy Lamour on the gramophone?

3.JG51_BigBear
05-11-2005, 05:01 PM
I know its a game, but I always play full real and when I chose a plane or a runway or a weapons loadout I always like to think of what a real world pilot would have done and most real world pilots would not have intentionally rammed another aircraft. Its just not a smart way to fight a war. The skilled pilot and his plane should be preserved. Now if I was the only thing standing between a B-17 and Dresden and I knew full well what he was going to do, I was out of ammo, and there was no one left to stop him then I could see the real world pilot ramming the enemy. So I guess I'd have to agree with Luckboy on this one, but just to clarify, I've only rammed a bomber once online and that was a noob accident. I was in a 109K knocking 30MM rounds into an Il2 flown by -HH-Beebop, he nailed my engine with his tail gunner, and thus blinded I sailed right into him.

MS_Siwarrior
05-11-2005, 10:58 PM
Ok then thanks guys http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
I thik instead of ramming bombers ill try a more evasive approach and only ram if theres no one around to finish them off
Thanks

JG27_Stacko
05-11-2005, 11:23 PM
Originally posted by Tooz_69GIAP:

So, colliding with a bomber on purpose to down it is a legitimate tactic. However, in this game of ours, for the most part, it's not really worth it.

booooo.....hissssss. There is no greater frustration than smoking a bandit from your gunners' position only to have him ram you like a noob. Value your virtual life and try and play with some realism. "Legitimate tactic" - how does the fact they tried it (and failed) in RL give it legitamacy? I think too many ppl cant accept it when there figther is beat up by the bomber. Short of a PK, or a guy who has lost all of his controls, rammers are noobs. plain and simple.

WTE_DuStA
05-11-2005, 11:33 PM
i dont mind when i PK a c******ay sipping fighter jock and you can tell that he has lost control, but when some imbicile rams you on purpose it annoys me and normally makes me disconnect from the server

LEBillfish
05-11-2005, 11:47 PM
Well it is "silly" to ram a bomber here unless in a "war/competition" server. Points or a score is what most are after sadly and it's a waste if that is their goal. If not then poor sportsmanship as you couldn't down it so Salute them and rtb.

However, r/l ramming WAS more common then you realize. When it's your family getting bombed, and your commanders have encouraged it like in many late war scenarios....and when it's 30 of you meeting 300+ planes....Well, when the ammo is gone you ram.

Homeland defense units in Japan even made up special kill marks for it, some even painting murals celebrating it. So as I said, if it's late war, and they are heavies (4 engined) when I'm out of options I stab....Below what I have been "told" were stab kill marks.

http://www5b.biglobe.ne.jp/~s244f/nakanomark4.gif

http://www5b.biglobe.ne.jp/~s244f/hien3-up.jpg

http://www5b.biglobe.ne.jp/~s244f/score01.gif

Tooz_69GIAP
05-12-2005, 01:28 AM
Man, all this agro coz folks think I'm a fighter jock who can't shoot straight? Well, maybe I am, but around 90% of the time you'll find me flying something designed to carry bombs, be that an IL-2, an A-20, a B-25, a Ju-87, He-111, D3A1, or whatever.

I'm a bomber pilot first and foremost, and I still see ramming as no big deal. This is a game, who cares if you get rammed, or you ram someone. So you get called a noob, or an eejit, or whatever. Who gives a monkey's? I don't.

Anyway, like I said, in this game is pretty pointless to ram someone, and I have rarely done it intentionally, and I don't really care if I get rammed, coz there's always next time.

Man, do you guys take some things seriously or what?

OberUberWurst
05-12-2005, 02:03 AM
What WTE_DuStA said..

Flakmutt
05-12-2005, 02:14 AM
I fly Bombers about half the time and fighters the other half (makes sense). Have been rammed and done the ramming sometimes with intend other times by accident. Ramming requires situational ethics.

LeadSpitter_
05-12-2005, 02:21 AM
Well if i see 1 bf110 b25 il2 a20 or what ever shoot down 5-6 fighters and i attempt a highspeed pass and sometimes get the magic ai or human 1 shot engine kill on me I will collide thru thier wing,

usually the 190a has no problems with bombers and dont ever need to ram.

Its strange the 190 and 109 can fly straight thru any bombers wingtip directly with the spinner and your engine wont get damaged and you survive fine.

All other planes the engine ceases. It is pretty cheap imo and rarely do it but i have if my engine ceases or if they were vulching a spawn point base. Usually on servers like spits vs 109s the huge b25 bomber streams have 4-6 spits as escort and they will shoot you into the ground if you wave off or try to belly land, bailing they will shoot your parachute becuase you attacked the bombers http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

All depends on the situation and how many kills the bomber got.

SeaFireLIV
05-12-2005, 04:07 AM
I should just say that I`ve NEVER rammed anyone online intentionally and a sitution has never occurred Online where I felt I had to. Offline, I did rammed a bomber by sidling up with and hitting my wing with his - he went down and I bailed alive.

While I have never rammed anyone intentionally online, I still think it`s valid on a Campaign server or any server where dying actually costs you. It has to be an act that you don`t do for scoring, or because you`re a useless shot but because that bomber`s about to bomb that target - or that fighter`s about to shoot down your m8 and your right behind the bogey (with no ammo) with NOONE else able to take over for you. But the default should always be to try and stay alive.

If that doesn`t make it clear nothing will.

Jumpin_Jezza
05-16-2005, 03:31 AM
i happened to have an unfortunate event with a hurricane mk.IIc i got bored & tried to ram the heinkel... clipping my wing off one, i managed to ram into a second one while uncontrolable :P

Sparky401SQD
05-16-2005, 12:26 PM
Mostly Have accidental rammings, but if no ammo I have intentionally tried to get the bomber before he reaches the target

darkhorizon11
05-16-2005, 09:04 PM
Originally posted by Tooz_69GIAP:
Well, colliding with bombers was done done by the germans as well. There was an operation late in the war (late '44 or early '45) by the luftwaffe where they got together around 300 old aircraft, and flew up into the bomber streams and rammed the B-17s, or sliced into them with the props, etc.

I read about this in Tail End Charlies. The project was supposed to have around 3,500 aircraft allovated to it, but the project was continually scaled back, until they only had 300 aircraft.

The idea was for the pilot to fly the fighter into the bomber, and bail out. These were not suicide missions. And for the most part, the pilots did manage to get out, but the bombers, although heavily damaged in some cases, flew on. The germans underestimated the endurance and toughness of the boeing airframe!!

So, colliding with a bomber on purpose to down it is a legitimate tactic. However, in this game of ours, for the most part, it's not really worth it.


Yeah I saw a more detailed report of this also. Exact details from the German military was hard to come by 1945 since the country was being torn apart. It happened in late March, early April 1945. A high level Luftwaffe commander believed that suicide tactics could save Germany as it had a very negative effect on the US Navy in the Pacific. He tried to organize 800 planes under the approval Hitler and Goering, niether really liked the idea but they weren't about to stand in his way since the situation had gotten so desperate. No decoration was given for this unorthodox and unapproved operation. Actually the pilots weren't ordered to ram their planes into the bombers but it was suggested that they do what was necessary to save the Reich, no matter what the cost. However the program was cut back, many pilots and aircraft were pulled for other operations and ultimately about 150 aircraft took off. Mind you it was never OFFICIALLY a suicide mission as the pilots were told to bail out at the last second before their aircraft hit.

So the plan was executed. The planes took off and a large formation of B-24s (not B-17s) was spotted. The B-24 pilots were quite surprised, the LW hadn't been spotted in weeks and many crews had never seen enemy fighters before. Initially the Germans dove at the formations scoring some hits on the bombers. Right off the bat a Lib was hit and it veered out of control crashing into another Lib and that German was given credit for two bomber kills. Some 109s turned tail, but many continued to harass until they were out of ammo and then intentionally collided with the bombers. Ultimately 14 Allied bombers were shot down which is a lot for that point in the war with a loss of over 50 fighters and pilots. In fact many pilots did actually successfully ram their aircraft and bail out but were found riddled with holes still in their parachutes since the bomber crews didn't feel very merciful of the German tactics.

Kazimierz.
05-17-2005, 01:23 PM
I think the word is Sturmbock, the (German) pilots were encouraged to do it providing they were sure of an eject

Kazimierz.
05-17-2005, 01:32 PM
Just found what I was looking for...
68 pilots in the Sturmbock IV(Sturm)/JG3 made a new and desparate attempt to disrupt the Daylight bombing raids deep into Europe. Forming tight arrowhead formations they were trained in close 'hand-to-hand' combat, shooting only when a kill was imminent. Ramming if the pilot was able to eject safely. "We swear to fight in Defence of the Reich true to the principles and rules of engagement..........to protect and defend......the population of the Fatherland"
Hauptmann Wilhelm Moritz
part of the briefing I used in a Sturmbock Coop Mission I made. 23rd December 2003

Atomic_Marten
05-17-2005, 01:33 PM
Ram. Ram them all. Whenever you can.

It's funny after all. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif