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View Full Version : Why is it that restored LuftWaffe Planes always seem to crash :((



XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 01:03 PM
I was watching a prog about restored spits flying the other day and there were about 10 in a formation, yet the only LW planes in the airshow were a bf108 and a Bf109 which made a very quick test flight as it had just been restored.

We were then told that the Bf109 crashed a few weeks later , killing the pilot http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

I never see any classic LW birds flying now like FW190 or BF109, that Heinkel also crashed recently. Yet so many Spits (even MK1s) and P51's.


Were LW planes really this unreliable?? Has anyone got a possible reason for this??


It makes me sad as I love the FW190 and 109 as much as I love the spit and stang.

XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 01:03 PM
I was watching a prog about restored spits flying the other day and there were about 10 in a formation, yet the only LW planes in the airshow were a bf108 and a Bf109 which made a very quick test flight as it had just been restored.

We were then told that the Bf109 crashed a few weeks later , killing the pilot http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

I never see any classic LW birds flying now like FW190 or BF109, that Heinkel also crashed recently. Yet so many Spits (even MK1s) and P51's.


Were LW planes really this unreliable?? Has anyone got a possible reason for this??


It makes me sad as I love the FW190 and 109 as much as I love the spit and stang.

XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 01:36 PM
I have mixed thoughts on flyable antiques. There's nothing like seeing an old warbird zoom overhead, right before your eyes. However, the risk of losing these pieces of history seems too great. I really like the 262 project for this reason.

As far as why so few LW aircraft? I suppose it could have much to do with the fact that the majority of them were destroyed (one way or another) by war's end.





"We will welcome them with bullets and shoes."

XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 01:46 PM
The only fatal 109 crash in recent years was Mark Hannah, who flew a Spanish build Buchon with a RR Merlin engine.
The Me 109G-2 of Duxford crashed as well, but the pilot was only injured, and the plane was restored, but not as flyable. Apart from that and the CAF Heinkel, there were no LW warbird crashes at all.
Spitfires crash all the time, as well as Mustangs.

http://people.freenet.de/JCRitter/1sigklein.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 02:56 PM
Xiolablu3 wrote:

- Were LW planes really this unreliable?? Has anyone
- got a possible reason for this??

I don't know if "unreliable" is the right word to use, but rather, "difficult", particularly the Bf-109. Its knocked knee undercarriage made it very unstable when taxiing, taking off, or landing, especially if there's a crosswind. Most pilots who have flown a Bf-109 will make it very clear that if there's a crosswind equal to or greater than 10 knots, the plane stays in the hanger. Also, maintenance is a huge issue. Since Luftwaffe aircraft are so rare, their parts, therefore, are also rare. If the owner/pilot wants to have as many original parts on the plane as possible, keeping the plane flying becomes quite a challenge. I'm reminded of the first test flight of a recently restored Polykarpov I-153. At the end of the flight, the pilot was unable to get the landing gear fully extended and was forced to make a belly landing. The pilot was uninjured and the plane was not that badly damamged (thanks to the extraordinary skills of the pilot, who put the plane down perfectly, given the circumstances). Afterwards, the pilot remarked, "I'm not surprised, really. You're always waiting for something to go wrong in these old things."

- It makes me sad as I love the FW190 and 109 as much
- as I love the spit and stang.

I know exactly what you mean. The Bf-109 is one of my favorite aircraft from WWII and it pains me to see how few of them are left. There are only some 20-30 airframes left in the world, I believe, and of those only a handful are airworthy. I recently visited the National Air and Space Museum in Washington D.C. for the sole purpose of seeing the Bf-109 that they have on display. As I gazed at it, I was overwhelmed by the fact that I was looking at one of the few surviving examples of that aircraft and that, at one time, it was one of the most mass produced aircraft in the world with some 33,000 having been built. Now, it's one of the rarest. Very sad indeed.

Best regards,
Tattered Boots.

XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 03:01 PM
theRealAntEater wrote:
- The only fatal 109 crash in recent years was Mark
- Hannah



-


Was there ever a specific finding on that accident?? All I ever heard was "mechanical failure in-flight" as a cause, and since Warbirds Worldwide closed up shop soon afterwards, I never heard more about it.

XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 03:18 PM
i Actually think most restored(?) bf 109 (early types i think) dont look like the real thing i the front

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XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 03:21 PM
proof of it's weak damage model? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

S!
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XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 03:30 PM
fradd wrote:
- I Actually think most restored(?) Bf-109s (early
- types I think) don't look like the real thing in the
- front.

fradd,

I believe that only one or two airworthy Bf-109s surviving today have the original Daimler-Benz engines. Most have been re-equipped with Rolls-Royce Merlins (which should be a crime, by the way lol). That's why some of them look a little unusual.

Hope that helps.

Best regards,
Tattered Boots.

XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 03:31 PM
I visited an air museum in Germany (it might have been Switzerland) and it was full of old aircraft, mostly Soviet Jets from the 1960s. However, in one part of the museum there was an Me109 (the real type, not the spanish version) which had a blue fueselage and a painted yellow nose. The sad thing was that the aircraft had no wings, and was simply standing on its wheels with no protection from the elements (it was an outdoor museum.) It surprises me that more is not done to protect and repair these beautiful aircraft. They have a lot of importance in history and should not be forgotten.

To be able to fare well,
To avoid the frustration of misfortune,
That, in this world, is happiness.
-Euripides' Electra

XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 03:34 PM
BBB462cid wrote:
-
- theRealAntEater wrote:
-- The only fatal 109 crash in recent years was Mark
-- Hannah
-
-
-
-
--
-
-
- Was there ever a specific finding on that accident??
- All I ever heard was "mechanical failure in-flight"
- as a cause, and since Warbirds Worldwide closed up
- shop soon afterwards, I never heard more about it.
----------------------------------------------------------

- I agree,it was kept quiet over here in the U K.
I also think that parts are not as available for L/Waffe aircraft as possibly Spits and P51'S.
I think think the replica/new build aircraft is a great idea to keep these type of planes flying in good order.
If they are built with the same specs you would'nt know the difference betwen them and the originals[ after all HOW MANY ORIGINALS ARE ORIGINAL?]
Apart from the odd one they've all been rebuilt to some point,Cheers Trumper
-
-
-
-

XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 03:54 PM
-
- I believe that only one or two airworthy Bf-109s
- surviving today have the original Daimler-Benz
- engines. Most have been re-equipped with Rolls-Royce
- Merlins (which should be a crime, by the way lol).
- That's why some of them look a little unusual.

These were not re-engined.
In Spain, 109s were build with RR Merlin engines after the war, because the supplies of DB 605s had run dry, for reasons well known.

These 109s (Ha 1112 Buchon) were build and designed with Merlins. Incidentially, the first series was build with a hispano engine, which was very closely related to the M-105 of the Yak. So basically, Spain build 109s both with Spitfire and Yak engines http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Right now, only two DB 605 engined 109s are flyable, the G-6 and the G-10 of the Messerschmitt foundation in Manching/Germany. Incidentially, the Eurofighter typhoon is tested on the same airbase, so it is not an uncommon sight to see a Eurofighter and a 109 taxiing together...

http://people.freenet.de/JCRitter/1sigklein.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 04:04 PM
Thanks for your informative replies

Some good info there Tattered Boots http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif))

XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 04:12 PM
I believe there was over 30,000 planes produced by the Germans. But by wars end the Germans only had a few 100 planes left to deal with the allies final push. This is probably the reason.

XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 04:14 PM
There were thousands of wrecked aircraft in Germany at the end of the war. The interesting ones were tested by the allies, but most were simply scrapped.
Resources were scacre and airplanes were made of valuable metals and other things that could be salvaged and put to peacetime use.
An old guy from Leipzig told me they had a field full of wrecked german aircraft until the early 1960s before these idiots scrapped them!
But this guy played in the cockpits of wrecked 109s and Ju 88s when he was a child...
And eventually flew MiGs with the east german air force.

http://people.freenet.de/JCRitter/1sigklein.jpg


Message Edited on 08/24/0303:17PM by theRealAntEater

XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 05:10 PM
Hello,

I don't like it that these old planes are still flying. I think so because:

1. Most planes are VERY rare. If they crash they get destroyed forever and often kill the pilot /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

2. In order to fly them you have to change their cockpits and gauges (I saw a picture of a flyable Bf 109 somewhere, and the cockpit had a different panel with modern gauges). I think that this isn't good because I find old cockpits with old gauges interesting.

3. Also, you have to change many parts of the planes (e.g. engines) in order to fly it. That's bad because I would rather see these planes in museums with original parts than flying with so many changed parts.

If you like to see flying warbirds , you could build new ones after the original plans (like the new Me 262's in the USA). That would let you watch the planes flying (You don't see the difference between an original and a rebuilt warbird in the air) and in museums you can see them restored in good condition.

That's my opinion about flying warbirds and I hope you agree,

Pilot99

XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 05:13 PM
Xiolablu3 wrote:
- I was watching a prog about restored spits flying
- the other day and there were about 10 in a
- formation, yet the only LW planes in the airshow
- were a bf108 and a Bf109 which made a very quick
- test flight as it had just been restored.
-
- We were then told that the Bf109 crashed a few weeks
- later , killing the pilot http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

It's nothing to do with LW planes specifically, just
old planes, it seems. Of WW2 planes I have seen at
displays, a Sea Fury (ok, just post war) and a P63
have now crashed, killing the pilots, and a Fairey
Firefly, carrying an associate member of a Warbirds
squad I was in has also crashed, killing both
crewmembers.

XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 06:45 PM
Keep in mind that the number of flying P-51's and the like are INCREASING. Many allied aircraft were sold/crated after there seervice, airworthy or not. There is a lot of interest in certain aircraft by the few people out there with the resources to undertake a restoration, and it seems that people are picking allied planes more than LW. The protocol of the LW may be a large factor in this. . . did they hold on to their aircraft as the allieds did?

Added: also understand thet these airplanes are extremely expensive to restore and maintain, and they often pay the bills by flying them from place to place, all across the country, making stops at many of the big airshows and taking donations. Next time your at an airshow, and they have a donations box give some thought to dropping in a dollar or to. I work with the CAF (now commemerative air force) and all the people working on these planes are simply volunteers witha passion for these aircraft. You guys may also find it interesting to do this.

S!
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Message Edited on 08/24/0309:51AM by TX-EcoDragon

XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 06:54 PM
Keep in mind that both in Germany and Japan, there was an almost ten year's pause in flying, both military and civilian, after WW2.
Between that, there was no use for aircraft at all. Germans were not allowed to fly anyway, until 1953 or so.
And actually the number of preserved aircraft in museums is constantly increasing. Until the 1990s there was a single 109 in a german museum, now there are five or six. Same for other types.

http://people.freenet.de/JCRitter/1sigklein.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 07:40 PM
they will keep finding them in scrapyards and they are a load onder an airport on germany i saw a thing on the news and they were all bombed up and ready to go but we will never see many proper 109 or 190 flying becase they were destroyedand their are no engines unless somebody builds one to the same spec

its a shame really because i want to see them fly

XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 08:00 PM
theRealAntEater wrote:

- These were not re-engined.
- In Spain, 109s were built with RR Merlin engines
- after the war, because the supplies of DB 605s had
- run dry, for reasons well known.
-
- These 109s (Ha 1112 Buchon) were built and designed
- with Merlins. Incidentially, the first series was
- build with a hispano engine, which was very closely
- related to the M-105 of the Yak. So basically, Spain
- built 109s both with Spitfire and Yak engines.

I stand corrected, thanks for that information. I knew about the Ha 1112 (German designation: Bf-109J, right?), but I was under the impression that these aircraft had been intended to be equipped with DB-605s but because so few (if any) DB-605s reached Spain, the Spanish improvised and modified the Ha 1112 so it could accept the Merlin. So, wouldn't the Ha 1112 then qualify as being "re-engined"?

Best regards,
Tattered Boots.

XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 08:12 PM
They crash beacuse those stupid pilots try to TnB in them http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Anyway, my dream if i ever got rich would be to accuire the blueprints to every aspect of various Warbirds, (spitfires, 190's, 109s, 'stangs, etc) and open up my own factory, building a few each year.

http://www.geocities.com/bs87cr/190sig.txt

XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 08:25 PM
From what I understand, the Russian ASh-82 is close enough to the BMW-801 to be substituted, and with Russia opening up, ASh-82 engine are actually becoming avaliable on the open market.

It may even be possible to substitute P&W R-1820's into restored and reproduction FW-190's. After all, the original engine it was designed for was basicly a liscense built P&W twin Wasp.

Worse case senario, it may even be possible to wedge an R-2800 or R-3350 into a FW. There are pleanty of those still around, and both the R-2800 and R-3350 were exceptionally compact and light engines for their power output, and the BMW-801 was a relatively large and heavy engine.

The FW-190D is even easier to work with. There is a large amount of space in the engine compartment, and the Jumo 213 has about the same displacement as a RR Griphon. It wouldn't take much engineering work to fit the Merlin or Allison to that aircraft, and both of those are readily avaliable, with suitable power outputs. The most difficult part would be repositioing everything for a standard V engine, rather then an inverted V, but the engine compartment should have enough room for that.

Harry Voyager

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XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 08:57 PM
- knew about the Ha 1112 (German designation: Bf-109J,
- right?), but I was under the impression that these
- aircraft had been intended to be equipped with
- DB-605s but because so few (if any) DB-605s reached
- Spain, the Spanish improvised and modified the Ha
- 1112 so it could accept the Merlin. So, wouldn't the
- Ha 1112 then qualify as being "re-engined"?


I am not an expert on Spanish 109 license production, but from my understanding, the Merlin engined 109s were only build after the end of the war, without any support from the Messerschmitt A.G. at all. During Wartime, there was the Hispano engined version, in which Messerschmitt may have lend a hand. The airframes were all newly constructed, not delivered from Germany.
Many Buchons had german build wings, but not fuselage or motor carriage, so I'd consider them as newly build planes with Merlins.


http://people.freenet.de/JCRitter/1sigklein.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 10:34 PM
I can appreciate restoring original aircraft. The me262 project makes a lot better sense though. Taking the blueprints and building an aircraft with modern materials, engines and correcting known problems is the best way to go. I watched a show on a group, one of a few that tried to recover a B-29 that I believe ran out of fuel and landed in the Arctic. Story had it that the Airforce would give the plane to anyone who could fly it out. Many many dollars along with new engines and props and many hard hours of labor went into the project. One of the men from Canada even died from getting ill. The next spring when they were ready to fly it out, the plane was attempting to taxi to a suitable takeoff spot when a fire broke out in the fuselage. The temporary fuel tank they were using had come loose and caught on fire. Everyone got out, but the plane burned to the ground. There was nothing left but the steel parts which were left to melt into the ice forever lost. The story about the P-38 Glacier Girl is a very good one also. But I hope that more of the people interested in these planes would build them from the blueprints and preserve the originals for the next generations to appreciate. I wouldnt think that building one from the blueprints would really cost much more because they really only have shell. Practically everything must be gutted and replaced with newer stuff or rebuilt. I wish anyone well that is attempting such a feat. I also hope that they, along with their plane survive. .

...and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward,
for there you have been and there you long to return.
~leonardo de vinci

XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 11:05 PM
Recently I was an air museum where they had a immaculate 109, that is flyable. In fact the museum starts it and runs it frequently as a part of preventative maintenance. The museum has a group of pilots that regularly fly the old war birds.

I asked one of the employees about the 109, and how often it was flown. He basically said, "We no longer fly the 109, because out insurance will not cover any pilot flying it."

I wondered about the answer and asked him to explain. He said, "The 109 is a tricky aircraft to fly, and requires a lot of experience in the aircraft to manage it well enough". I mentioned to him, "it would just be fun to see it fly some touch and gos, or just some simple turns and stuff. I mean I wouldn't expect to see cuban 8s spit s's, immelmans or anything like that". He laughed and said, "It would proably be no more problem to execute the manuevers than to fly it straight".

So for whatever all that means... I thought it was interesting.

--------------- /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 11:28 PM
http://www.white1foundation.org/header1.jpg


http://mudmovers.com/Sims/IL2/images/wallpaper/me262sharkt.jpg
U.S. infantry 84-91

XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 11:33 PM
damn... sorry i cant seem to send the link but any way go to the stormbirds site the 262 progect it awsome butmeif u no like me262 the white one is also nice,..............stormbirds.com

http://mudmovers.com/Sims/IL2/images/wallpaper/me262sharkt.jpg
U.S. infantry 84-91

XyZspineZyX
08-25-2003, 01:00 AM
BBB462cid wrote:
-
- theRealAntEater wrote:
-- The only fatal 109 crash in recent years was Mark
-- Hannah
-
-
- Was there ever a specific finding on that accident??
- All I ever heard was "mechanical failure in-flight"
- as a cause, and since Warbirds Worldwide closed up
- shop soon afterwards, I never heard more about it.
-
-
To answer the above question, I heard an eye witness account that stated the the 109 followed a 'large commercial jet' into the airport and got caught up in the jets wake.This caused the 109 to basically drop to the ground (bit like trying to fly in a vacuum) In this case, it would not have been the pilots fault, just a freak accident.



http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/aeroart/images/hunhunter-texas_sig2a1.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-25-2003, 01:04 AM
All warbirds crash regularly .. spits P51's a mosquito went down in England a few years ago ..

They are not that easy to fly (the fantasies of many FB computer jocks that they could just jump in a warbird and fly it are just that .. a fantasy) and are often flown at low level and high speed as crowd pleasers at airshows.

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XyZspineZyX
08-25-2003, 01:47 AM
theRealAntEater wrote:

- I am not an expert on Spanish 109 license
- production, but from my understanding, the Merlin
- engined 109s were only built after the end of the
- war, without any support from the Messerschmitt A.G.
- at all. During Wartime, there was the Hispano
- engined version, in which Messerschmitt may have
- lend a hand. The airframes were all newly
- constructed, not delivered from Germany.

Gotcha. Thanks for taking the time to clear that up, I enjoyed our little chat./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Best regards,
Tattered Boots.

XyZspineZyX
08-25-2003, 02:00 AM
109s regularily had a TO run that was a slight arc because of the trickiness involved in TOs.

FB's grass airfields should not have a straight runway.

http://www.stenbergaa.com/stenberg/crandall-stormclouds2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-25-2003, 03:08 AM
hunhunter-texas wrote:
-
- BBB462cid wrote:
--
-- theRealAntEater wrote:
--- The only fatal 109 crash in recent years was Mark
--- Hannah
--
--
-- Was there ever a specific finding on that accident??
-- All I ever heard was "mechanical failure in-flight"
-- as a cause, and since Warbirds Worldwide closed up
-- shop soon afterwards, I never heard more about it.
--
--
- To answer the above question, I heard an eye
- witness account that stated the the 109 followed a
- 'large commercial jet' into the airport and got
- caught up in the jets wake.This caused the 109 to
- basically drop to the ground (bit like trying to fly
- in a vacuum) In this case, it would not have been
- the pilots fault, just a freak accident.
-
-



Thanks, hunhunter

Not fun to think about Hanna's loss again, but hearing the report of an eye witness account brings a bit of closure for those that admired his accomplishments and take on life. Nothhing in life is truly "safe", I suppose. As experienced as he was (Combat in the Falklands to thousands of hours in almost every Warbird) it makes it more of a tragedy to hear it was vortices...but it also makes it a bit better, too, knowing that it wasn't anything but a freak accident.

I miss his accounts of flying various warbirds, but many more miss him as a person, and all those who comment on his superlative piloting skills who knew him personally point out that he was a great pilot- but he was a better Man than a pilot.

I can't think of a better tribute than that, and he is missed the world over.

Very sad, but it's nice to hear what happened after all this time. I never got to meet him but he was on my "short list" of people I fantasized about meeting in person.

XyZspineZyX
08-25-2003, 06:48 AM
hunhunter-texas wrote:
--
--
- To answer the above question, I heard an eye
- witness account that stated the the 109 followed a
- 'large commercial jet' into the airport and got
- caught up in the jets wake.This caused the 109 to
- basically drop to the ground (bit like trying to fly
- in a vacuum) In this case, it would not have been
- the pilots fault, just a freak accident.
-

Actually. . it would be. . . Pilots are trained, and responsible for avoiding wake turbulence.

S!
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XyZspineZyX
08-25-2003, 06:51 AM
Xiolablu3 wrote:
Why is it that restored LuftWaffe Planes always seem to crash /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Answer:
It simple. they're all Junk. lol they aren't worth the parts it took to make them. They were garbage when they rolled off the line and now....they're recylcled garbage.

As for the reason you see so many Spits & Mustangs...
they're made with quality. Good old British & American Know how. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
Just my Opinion.

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XyZspineZyX
08-25-2003, 11:13 AM
Here's one that didnt crash:
http://www.eggebek-airday.de/grafics/bilder/101-0159_img_std.jpg

http://people.freenet.de/JCRitter/1sigklein.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-26-2003, 07:27 PM
~S! Nearmiss, I don't know if I can help you understand what the gentleman was trying to make clear to you in a very short chat.

You didn't say which model 109, but to try to illustrate, why this machine was difficult to fly for all those, except the few who had alot of time " In Type and Model". Now no one has alot of time in "type", especially the 109's notwithstanding that only experienced pilots with current warbird time now fly'em. Of all the machines out there, the Bf109.... any model would scare the bejesus out of me, especially trying to fly the son of gun from concrete runways. I don't personally have warbird time, but sometime in a Pitts. The 109 was tiny, having small airframe, designed, one of the smallest, with larger and larger power plants/propellers, which is always imparting force on the plane.... a plane which the pilot can only trim in pitch.

For example, add Power... stand on right rudder to keep it straight and coorinate with needed aileron and elevater, reduce power and dive, your standing on right rudder with the need to coorindate to counter left rolling...... You're busy and the birds demands that of the pilot to fly it very second..... unless your throttled back to econ cruise settings. Now add the effort to fly it straight and level and now add to it your going to manuever close to the ground, i.e,low level mild acro, and then land it! The plane might get away from you!

If it was me, I'd just as soon not temp the God's! I'll stay with nice flying well behaved and predicatable planes, and have a better chance of dying in bed, thankyou /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif .

The major thing is pilot TIME in Type! Flying a 109, occasionally to seldom,is just taking a risk at the end of the day.

Its complexity and the need for occassional counter- intuitive control input being the norm for the 109's, is simply not presented in this sim, nobody would enjoy them.

I've probably made a poor attemp at explaining why this machine is difficult to fly, you're probably saying it can't be...... look at the record. True, the pilot population from the Lutfwaffe was very good, and this machine was the norm. Still more than half 109's were lost in accidents, I believe.

All the Best:



nearmiss wrote:
- Recently I was an air museum where they had a
- immaculate 109, that is flyable. In fact the museum
- starts it and runs it frequently as a part of
- preventative maintenance. The museum has a group of
- pilots that regularly fly the old war birds.
-
- I asked one of the employees about the 109, and how
- often it was flown. He basically said, "We no longer
- fly the 109, because out insurance will not cover
- any pilot flying it."
-
- I wondered about the answer and asked him to
- explain. He said, "The 109 is a tricky aircraft to
- fly, and requires a lot of experience in the
- aircraft to manage it well enough". I mentioned to
- him, "it would just be fun to see it fly some touch
- and gos, or just some simple turns and stuff. I
- mean I wouldn't expect to see cuban 8s spit s's,
- immelmans or anything like that". He laughed and
- said, "It would proably be no more problem to
- execute the manuevers than to fly it straight".
-
- So for whatever all that means... I thought it was
- interesting.
-
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BPO5_Jinx
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