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View Full Version : Should Vegas Have P.E.C. Mode?



RoM_Mafia
03-19-2006, 03:14 PM
I think pec should be excluded bcuz look what it did to lockdown because if it wasnt for pec we wouldnt have to worry about level 40s runnin around the map like rambo...i mean JEEEZ man PEC IS COMPLETE KRAP. Also Economy system is stupid too i dont want to buys my stuff...THIS ISNT COUNTERSTRIKE. I dont understand why develepors are still pushing for it (from what everyone says) but pec mode screwed the series. It was too big of a change And it doesent belong in the RB6 series. Thats the deal so what do u guys think?

DayGlow
03-19-2006, 03:33 PM
isn't it one of the many online game options?

NightEagle29
03-19-2006, 04:12 PM
I say yes after all you dont have to play with it unless you want to

RoM_Mafia
03-19-2006, 04:41 PM
yea but the ranked leaderboards made u do pec WHICH IT SUKED. I stand by my word pec suks

NightEagle29
03-19-2006, 05:05 PM
Originally posted by RoM_Mafia:
yea but the ranked leaderboards made u do pec WHICH IT SUKED. I stand by my word pec suks

I am sure there is a way around that

Kev5890
03-19-2006, 05:07 PM
I dont care for it, but if it doesnt interfere with my regular Rainbow ( ala rainbow 3/BA) have it..Some people like it.

RoM_Mafia
03-19-2006, 06:15 PM
If pec mode is on there which i hope 2 god isnt atleas make it like GRAW. anyways it interferes with the games flow.... its not rainbow at all and look what happened to lockdown bcuz of it. Untill i get a GOOD reason it should stay tell me, otherwise it still suks and it shouldnt be in the series. It changes the game way too much. I mean look at GRAW they baysically have the same game play sice the original WITH minor changes...notice i said MINOR that continues to make the series better.RB6 DIDNT EVEN HAVE CLASSES and know they added the pec which=BIG CHANGE i mean look at the forumns man the pec sucks. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif ALL the fans want is a beefed up BLACK ARROw. Just look at GRAW same as recon 2 but minor changes beefed graphics and its A HIT...there u got jus listen to the gamers....weve said it for a while STIK TO THE BAYSIKS.

NightEagle29
03-19-2006, 06:25 PM
I like PEC mode because in real life I am in the Army and I am part of a Medic unit and I can heal people so when I play using the pec mode as my medic it makes the game fun for me

Odinious
03-19-2006, 09:01 PM
I hate the idea personally... but it can be done right.

I just don't like specializing in a certain class with leveling up super sweet skills like "hacking" and "accuracy" and "my bullet powers will be increased if I level up this skill." I just want to pick a primary firearm such as a shotgun, assault rifle, or submachine gun. A good squad will dictate what weapon each member will use in a specific map. PEC just seems like a way to force the player the way that someone else intended for them to do.

RoM_Mafia
03-19-2006, 09:10 PM
AMEN 2 THAT brother... PEC is stupid ok, if you want to heal people then how bout put a med pack in your inventory...no need to change the game dramatically with dumb pec and classes. Also give host an INSANE amount of options like GRAW has. LIKE you said u want more realism well i doubt a soldier can be trained to take more bullets......so just make a med pack being put in the slot for grenades and there u go heal all u want. No need to make an entire new thing called PEC just for minor things like that.....

RoM_Mafia
03-19-2006, 09:33 PM
Here is some other post people said incase u havent read.....this is by rerry308

Ok so who is in charge over there? You people claim that you want to make a real game that gamers will love and you keep churring out junk faster than K-Fed can spend Brittney Spears money.

You claim you were bringing back old maps, and all you give us is a couple in mission mode. Why can't you bring back some old maps for xbox live. Ever consider including some maps from BA or 6? That would make the game worth buying.

This game is a serious letdown on so many levels. As a professional in advertising post production I would lose my job if I let a tv commercial go to broadcast before it was finished. Every issue that LETDOWN had is repeated in CH.Someone needs to loose their job.

The level glitchers are back. Thanks!

The maps are almost all repeats. That makes me think you people either are simply very lazy or lack the creativity to crank out a bunch of new material.

I get serious lag and dropped from rooms and I know its not my connection as I pay for the highest connection available in my area. Nothing like playing for 12 min only to have the room shut down and loose all those kills.

You are trying to re-invent the wheel and sell it to us all over again. But this wheel has four sides. The gaming community is not that stupid. A lot of us are educated professionals and we will stop buying all your crappy products.

I can't imagine keeping this game as it stands. I don't play Letdown anymore and I really won't play this either.

You need some serious help in the development stages. Bring back the feel of BA or 6. There is a reason why there are 300 + teams on Gamebattles RS BA ladder.

You leave out guns that people love.

You gave us maps that suck. Unless you like to camp

You released a product that is still prone to glitches and hackers. What reason do serious gamers have to buy this game? Oh is it so I can prance around a spawn and camp in a Balacava? I don't think so.

I thought you were on to something w/ PEC but what is the point when people can get to level 60 on the first day and then spawn camp a level one player who wants to earn points/levels honestly. That needs to be addressed first and foremost.

I am seriously disappointed w/ this game. I am disappointed w/ UBI. I will post this dissatisfaction on every forum. I will make sure that nobody in my clan or any other clan we regularly game w/ wastes their money.


I challenge anybody to give me a worthwile reason not to return this game or better yet save a gamer and turn it into a coaster for my coffee mug at work.

RoM Mafia: wow see what he said....level 60 in 1 day. I dont give a hoot if it gets fixed EVERYONE SAYS IT SUKS and we will keep tellin u just make an upgraded Black Arrow. ok..now heres another post by Top fuel....

I agree. Critical Horror. The game was marketed saying that the pace was slowed down to be more tactical like the older games, blah blah blah... Uhh I don't think so. It's Lockdown with a few other things thrown in the blender. If I knew it was going to be a lockdown expansion pack I'd never have bought it. Guess what... I bought it at 3:30p.m. popped it in, took it out at 5p.m. put it on ebay as a 24 hour auction and let some other sucker buy it. To bad I had to lose $12 more to Ubi trash in the process.

And yes... I will go back and play Halo 2, along with BA and RS3 (real games). Just because you're not a real gamer and don't have the skills to play a "real" game you play and love your button masher game. LOL can you dig that suckah!

Rom Mafia: see guys just read around man all we want is to get Pec ****d the hell out and bring back da old school RB6 dat made us drool not all these new bull shiz ideas.

RoM_Mafia
03-19-2006, 09:40 PM
heres one more for the night.. this one was originaly posted by Lnin0z2nd he said: This doesn't get my hopes up for Vegas. All the talk from the developers...'trust us, we know what the old fans want *cough* halo-esque recharging life *cough*

Maybe they should call the next one:
Rainbow Six:BS


Rom Mafia: LOL thats funny cuz hes speakin da truth, and im not tryin to give u guys a hard time but im tryin to get the POINT ACROSS. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

RoM_Mafia
03-19-2006, 09:44 PM
does everyone agress with me here? i want to hear some resonses plz.SPEAK ure minds out....it only helps the developers right? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/disagree.gif

del130528032037
03-20-2006, 07:37 AM
Wait one second!!! I've got an idea!!! Yes in my opinion PEC mode sucked, but what if there

was a personality mode? Let me explain a little bit. There are no levels, but there are

personality points based on what weapon you use, how many kills you have, how many deaths

you have, How much time spent playing online, and what characterstics you have in gameplay.

Your personality would not change how deadly you are because you would have access to all of

the weaponry, gear, and there is no need for stars or attributes. The personality that you

have in gameplay would be a name for you...for example (Marksman). Your personality could also

change. Say you were using stealth tactics and resorted to brute force, then your

personality would change after a while from assassin, or silent killer to commando or

hellion...you know something along those lines. There would have to be a lot of

different names when you reach the max in personality points so that the name given to

you is just for your personality.

WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK?

DayGlow
03-20-2006, 09:38 AM
Originally posted by RoM_Mafia:
If pec mode is on there which i hope 2 god isnt atleas make it like GRAW. anyways it interferes with the games flow.... its not rainbow at all and look what happened to lockdown bcuz of it. Untill i get a GOOD reason it should stay tell me, otherwise it still suks and it shouldnt be in the series. It changes the game way too much. I mean look at GRAW they baysically have the same game play sice the original WITH minor changes...notice i said MINOR that continues to make the series better.RB6 DIDNT EVEN HAVE CLASSES and know they added the pec which=BIG CHANGE i mean look at the forumns man the pec sucks. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif ALL the fans want is a beefed up BLACK ARROw. Just look at GRAW same as recon 2 but minor changes beefed graphics and its A HIT...there u got jus listen to the gamers....weve said it for a while STIK TO THE BAYSIKS.

My understanding that the overall feedback they got is that the majority of players like it.

KungFu_CIA
03-20-2006, 10:49 AM
Originally posted by DayGlow:

My understanding that the overall feedback they got is that the majority of players like it.

A lot players like the concept of it, but would rather have it implemented with a game like Black Arrow than LD.

Also, it is inherently a flawed system, currently, due to level-up glitches which still haven't been fixed even in Critical Hour (which is nothing more than a LD expansion pack).

del130528032037
03-20-2006, 12:33 PM
hey did you guys like my idea?

del130528032037
03-20-2006, 12:38 PM
Wait! Are you guys joking? The majority has made themselves very clear that they do not like the idea of PEC mode. Please tell me your joking-LOL

DayGlow
03-20-2006, 01:12 PM
overall gamebase, not just this forum. As KF-CIA stated, the majority like the idea and it's being tweaked.

del130528032037
03-20-2006, 01:31 PM
Well, I must ask, who is Ubi soft marketing to? Must be some Counter-Strike, Halo 2, and any other game where you can hold down your trigger and just be a little accurate, but still kill somebody, people. From what I've gathered on Gamebattles, Gamespot, Xbox-Scene, and here;the ones that want PEC mode are the ones that suck at Rainbow Six 3, because it actually takes skill to win. The veterens on Rainbow Six 3 are totaly against it. I've said before and I'll say it again. HOP ONLINE XBOX LIVE ON RAINBOW 6 BA AND THERE's THE MAJORITY THAT COUNTS, THOSE PEOPLE ARE DIEHARD FANS THAT IF UBI LET THEM DOWN IT WOULD BREAK THEIR HEARTS!

RoM_Mafia
03-20-2006, 04:06 PM
wow man ure crazy....the only people that liked PEC mode is the cheaters, notice that there were many cheaters. IF YOU HAVE BLACK ARROW go hop on XBL and ask around what they think. I bet u they will say "F*** PEC". Oviosly im still not getting to u so...i still have no idea where these crazy statistics come from hmmm maybe cheaters.TRUE ITS A GENIUS IDEAS....just not for rainbow. If i wanted classes and all that junnk id play Ghost Recon, so just do what u guys did a couple of years ago. Start a topic on how people feel about pec and i garantee its complete krap.

Chris_448
03-20-2006, 07:47 PM
YES!!!

It was awesome on Lockdown

These are the classes that should be included
Rifleman
Engineer
Explosives
Sniper
Medic
Support

FULLY CUSTOMIZABLE CHARACTERS ALWAYS!

RoM_Mafia
03-21-2006, 06:15 PM
PEC will be the death of VEGAS http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

kimi_
03-21-2006, 07:02 PM
Classes being included are Assault, Recon, Demolition, Sniper. At least, those are the ones that were mentioned when I visited.

RoM_Mafia
03-21-2006, 07:08 PM
Classes dont bother me as much as Pec. But make everyone the same in statistics even if the sniper has a sniper rifle, i wouldnt want to die just because im support with a rifle but he gets a bonus in accuracy cuz hes got a scoper 2. Hopefully the classes are like GRAW online where they dont make a difference, baisically for looks. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif

PS: PEC will be the death of VEGAS http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

RoM_Mafia
03-21-2006, 07:26 PM
Its safe to say that they have been working on the title for a while now so...... did they tell you if PEC was in the series still? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif
They are probly near the final stages of develpoment since the release is this year and that worries me cuz we post on the forumns what the game should have but it might be too late.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

DayGlow
03-22-2006, 12:47 AM
you don't have to play the PEC mode if you don't want to though, right?

DETHBLOW_V
03-22-2006, 02:31 AM
But, then let me guess, you won't be able to customize your avatar's look. Or be able to customize your weapons.

GamesMasterTA
03-22-2006, 02:56 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by RoM_Mafia:
But make everyone the same in statistics even if the sniper has a sniper rifle, i wouldnt want to die just because im support with a rifle but he gets a bonus in accuracy cuz hes got a scoper 2. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif
Hopefully the classes are like GRAW online where they dont make a difference, baisically for looks.QUOTE]

Youve got that all wrong, in GRAW classes DO matter, and you DO have more acuracy in GRAW if you are using the Rifle with the Rifleman class (for example) than if you were using a sniper wih a rifleman

GSG_9_Rage
03-22-2006, 05:49 AM
I hate the idea of classes. i would like the weapons that i choose define my class, rather than my class define the weapons that i choose.

del130528032037
03-22-2006, 11:51 AM
Originally posted by GSG_9_Rage:
I hate the idea of classes. i would like the weapons that i choose define my class, rather than my class define the weapons that i choose.

YA DUH!!!! READ MY FRICKEN IDEA!!! PEC IS STUPID, and should not be implemented! HEY UBI how about a PERSONALITY MODE instead of PEC? Where your weapon defines your class!

DayGlow
03-22-2006, 12:11 PM
if you want to your ideas to be heard and to be taken seriously I suggest you don't type in all caps and use words like 'stupid'. I garantee anyone that is involved with the development of the game will skip over your posts automatically right now the way you present yourself.

del130528032037
03-22-2006, 12:36 PM
Thank you for your suggestion, but if you have read my idea in the first place, you would

notice that I didn't use all caps or say stupid. Quite honestly, I will continue to be

myself, because I do not have to subject myself to a fascist dictatorship to get my opinion

across. I am who I am. I will not conform into what a certain person or company wants me

to be. I will be myself, honest and to the point. If you do not like that idea, then go

to China because they are communist. I heard that the weather is great this time of year.

DayGlow
03-22-2006, 01:31 PM
YA DUH!!!! READ MY FRICKEN IDEA!!! PEC IS STUPID,

RoM_Mafia
03-22-2006, 01:40 PM
well in GRAW there is barely a difference. I own it and just because ure a special class doesent mean u should have special abilities with certainvguns. I wouldnt want some noob owning me cuz he has the gun made for his class. RB6 Black arrow was the best cuz we aere all the same and who ever put in the most time was the best. Classes just screw rb6 over. Remember this isnt Ghost Recon.


PS: PEC will be the death of VEGAS http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

del130528032037
03-22-2006, 02:01 PM
Yo! Man! I was talking about what I said on the other page. Not this one. When I expressed my idea I didn't call anybody stupid or use "ALL" caps. Keep trying DayGlow you'll get it.

GSG_9_Rage
03-22-2006, 02:08 PM
Okay ray, I am giving you a week to cool off.

Goliath.Ubi.Dev
03-22-2006, 02:27 PM
I can't give details on PEC yet but i will say this much the new version of PEC is nothing like what was in Lockdown, it's much more similar to Old school Rainbow specialisations.

Soon as i can give details i will.

RoM_Mafia
03-22-2006, 02:50 PM
Well thats cool but can u tell us about the weapons....because i posted a thread for people to vote (whats was the death of lockdown) and most said weapons. So do u know what guns are in?

RoM_Mafia
03-23-2006, 01:50 PM
I still think PEC will kill the series no matter how much its redone. People will find a way to glich it, plus u guys didnt even beta test it.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif or did u? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

anyways PEc is the last thing i want to see.
And when vegas releases and could possibly be complete Krap cuz of pec http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif plz release an expansion with out pec http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Goliath.Ubi.Dev
03-23-2006, 03:13 PM
Everyone on the forums knows you think that PEC is the death of everything, so try to contribute something different once in a while please. Thats your opinion and thats fine but every thread doesnt need to have that thrown into it.

Also like i said you don't know what PEC is, so please wait until you have details before making assumptions.

RoM_Mafia
03-23-2006, 05:16 PM
yes yes i know. It kinda became my motto or something now but.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif heres what worries me, Most likely your going to tell us (unless u did already) that PEC is improved has no more glitches its bettter blah blah an such right? NOw has there been beta-testing on it? thats my thing because its a big change. You must understand i speak for like 98% of the people when i say pec is unwelcomed.Just look at other forumns. Enough of that said...Im guessing you guys are in the final stages of development so when can we expec a video? I http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif that u guys are putting in new things but also a majority of use want our leanwalk and stuff like that back.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif PS: PEC will be the death of VEGAS http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

RoM_Mafia
03-23-2006, 05:28 PM
Here is another reply from another forumn. And everyone agrees. dont take it the wrong way because im not trying to piss u off or give u a hard time, but trying to help cuz its crazy hearing about stuff like the new camera and the notorious Halo Health. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/disagree.gif

Here is the post. Hope u enjoy http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

Actually i wouldnt like the ability to look around the corner, Why u ask? maybe because it gives campers even more of a chance to win....when i run down a hallway i dont wat to die cause some camping punk sees me behind a wall....which u cant do in real life wat so ever in less u peak, which is the all so mighty LEAN. Also we should be able to leanwalk because u can do it in GRAW also. The weapon picking up thing...i dont mind because that was a factor we needed. Fix thise minor glitches black arrow had, dont try to change and remove the core things that give the Rainbow six series built on.

My FINAL statement is The RAINBOW SIX SERIES is and always should be FRIST person only. Thats what always sets it apart from Ghost Recon.

Ghost recon is always and will stay 3rd person. You dont see them trying some radical ideas like pec or some first person view thing.

PS: PEC will be the death of VEGAS.

RoM_Mafia
03-23-2006, 05:35 PM
heres one more


SO you guys are telling me you dont want to bob up and down and leanwalk? First off...host could of booted those glitchers so it didnt matter if you played with a legit host.

Second it didnt affect the match merely enough to cause people to hate the game.

3rd you can counter act the move by shooting in certain areas.

4th thing is, they fixed it in Black Arrow so why take it out. I speak for every one when i say this...I like to lean peek a corner. Lockdown lean type suked because i couldnt steadily walk to the corner so i wouldnt expose myself too much.This is why 3rd person camera thing is stupid. Let us lean for gods sake.

5Th and most important....ure telling me you rather not have the things that made Black Arrow fun like leanwalk and other minor things. NOtice i said MINOR. SO back to what i was saying you rather take those core things out or Keep the good old PEC mode where PEOPLE CHEATED to lv 60 in oned day....wow.


I rather have stupid glitchers that would be booted.

RoM_Mafia
03-23-2006, 05:43 PM
LoL its kinda funny asking this but.....was lockdown like a public test to see how the gamers react to the new things that were added.
and is vegas just a next gen lockdown with inprovements on what the public said sucked?

Just a question lol kinda sounds like a conspiracy. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

RoM_Mafia
03-23-2006, 05:53 PM
here is one more for the night.

Originally posted by MightyLordRay:


I agree. Ofcourse, I even hate the idea of medics. Imagine some dude with a gun in a nurse's skirt. When I tried Letdown out for the first time I had people asking me,"Hey can

I heal you?" I said no, but you can grab a gun and fight this war with me. lol. I said,"Man! While your busy healing me there is one person out there who's going to whipe both

of us out when you could help me better by laying some fire down so I can flank that son of a *****." lol. Hey man, I'm a medic. I guess when I get shot at I can through my

needle at 'em. Maybe I'll get 'em with the contaminated side. I've been working on my aim, maybe I'll stick 'em in the eye. LMAO!

Odinious
03-23-2006, 08:20 PM
OK, we have four classes here... and I might be a lil' upset if you guys assign a certain type of primary weapon to each class like so and have that be the end of it, like so...

Assault - assault rifle
Recon - submachine gun
Demolition - shotgun
Sniper - sniper rifle

Personally, I would hate to be one class, and then have that class be useless when those skills are applied on another map. (God forbid I use this example, but here it goes... Being a sniper on Peaks would be infinitely more useful than the demolition class) Please, no leveling up of characters, just the ability to switch from class to class without penalty. You could have the Ghost Recon system of each class having better accuracy or whatever with that specific class weapon, but still have the ability to use other weapons.

I could see each class having one or three class-specific weapons, like Recon Class gets the MP5K and the Assault Class gets the SA-80, but other than that, any class can use any other weapon.

Ghost Dog 3
03-24-2006, 12:49 AM
I loved PEC a specially since you don't lose exp when doing bad! I hope it stays like that.I just wish PEC took longer then 3 days to reach lvl 40 and that it was actually rewarding to play it on Team survival.

Medals need to evolve ex:When getting the Merck badge or what ever its called when gaining 100 kill,it should evolve at 500 kills 1000 kills 2000 kills 5000 kills etc.The same for the rest.The feeling of accomplishment is great http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

For the satellite or mines,there should be a limit of capture by the hour to prevent cheating.Like for the satellite only 5 captures per hour is counted,for the mines/claymores only 15 per hour.

It will prevent people of trying to gain easy levels up.

PEC was amazing but lockdown screwed it up! Back on Barrow I remember everybody I came across were happy about it.Now they see it as something bad only because it was badly done.

Leader boards should be open for every game type not just ranking like in GRAW.

RoM_Mafia
03-24-2006, 01:06 PM
You are either straight crazy or ure the one in a million that likes the pec. so what do u think is better black arrow or lockdown. LOL wow. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif anyway look at the critical hour and lockdown forumns.....and see all the (negative) things people say. so if u like to get wreked by a lv 60 then thats u. I personally like everyone to be even so the true skill comes out.

Ghost Dog 3
03-24-2006, 04:19 PM
Originally posted by RoM_Mafia:
You are either straight crazy or ure the one in a million that likes the pec. so what do u think is better black arrow or lockdown. LOL wow. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif anyway look at the critical hour and lockdown forumns.....and see all the (negative) things people say. so if u like to get wreked by a lv 60 then thats u. I personally like everyone to be even so the true skill comes out.

1)Not crazy just my own taste and most of my friends liked PEC as well.It was simply badly implemented in the game and the game was bad as well.

2)Black arrow is better! Just because I like PEC doesn't mean it replaces the previous game.

I said I like PEC (the idea) not Lockdown.

3)Why would a lvl 60 wreck me if a lvl 60 is the same as a lvl 40! Its just a number,the skills ar the same.I know how to shoot.

RoM_Mafia
03-24-2006, 04:43 PM
so ure telling me u like the idea of being better than a person but...he owns u cause his level qhich gets glitched in 1 day. Yes its a good idea but not for rainbow. It screwed the series and if not fixed we could see the same to vegas. I say through it out its a waste of time.

RoM_Mafia
03-24-2006, 06:48 PM
AN earlier post by goliath said PEC was completely redone and its more to old school gameplay.

HOw do you guys envision the new PEC to be?

Ghost Dog 3
03-25-2006, 02:40 PM
Originally posted by RoM_Mafia:
so ure telling me u like the idea of being better than a person but...he owns u cause his level qhich gets glitched in 1 day. Yes its a good idea but not for rainbow. It screwed the series and if not fixed we could see the same to vegas. I say through it out its a waste of time.

You obviously didn't fully understand.
Why would he own me...? I just told you a lvl 60 is the same as a lvl 40! Its just a number.
UBI clearly said a lvl 1 can still cap a lvl 40.
When you start a character,you start whit I think 5 skill points to distribute put 3 on accuracy and your good to go!

Goliath.Ubi.Dev
03-25-2006, 03:25 PM
PEC includes customization, all of it. Surely noone wants that gone. As i said before it has nothing to do with Lockdown as far as functionality goes so you will have to wait and see to understand what i mean.

RoM_Mafia
03-25-2006, 03:54 PM
fair nuff


i do like customizing but not the level thing giving u better accuracy. thats baysically what i hate. keep everyone the same but just change uniform guns and all that. just cause u grow a level doesent mean u should have better acurracy and all that. get what im sayin?

sloppymeatwad
03-26-2006, 12:13 AM
PEC is great. Address the level glitch and economics and everyone is happy. the economics are outta wack.

my squad generlly plays team survival and you dont get credits for that.

Secondly, it is a completely unrealistic idea that a counter terrorist squad has to fork over cash for grenades. what are they mercenaries?
i guess you could charge for specialties, or at least lower cost of standard issure 'nades, smoke,

RoM_Mafia
03-26-2006, 07:53 AM
I agree.... a hat is not 10,000 dollars ok. It better have something special like protect me against uv rays LOL http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

RoM_Mafia
03-26-2006, 07:55 AM
I think GRAW has a good type level and class set. If rainbowsix vegas is like that im all up for it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
Also make a ton of new maps and bring back like the top 3 played maps from the past with redone graphics and stuff.

RoM_Mafia
03-26-2006, 08:06 AM
originally posted by me : look man i want the smae exact aiming style black arrow had. if i hold the trigger i want my gun to unload on the person in front of me. If i tap it a want the precise one shot kill to the head. This is where GRAW screwed up at. It takes way too long to swith from automatic to single shot.

This is one of the most important features i say. Lockdown fell short on this

Odinious
03-26-2006, 08:12 AM
PEC includes customization, all of it. Surely noone wants that gone. As i said before it has nothing to do with Lockdown as far as functionality goes so you will have to wait and see to understand what i mean.

You know... if you told us exactly what you mean, then there would be exactly half as many threads in this forum.

Want to take care of the other half? Explain the "corner shot" deal and the life regenerating bit.

Just a suggestion! It would make all the mods' jobs easier. And hell, if I knew the answers to all these questions, I would just send you the check yesterday for RS:V!
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

RoM_Mafia
03-26-2006, 10:24 AM
lol thats true

Ghost Dog 3
03-26-2006, 10:54 AM
Well I hope the lvls up ar based on your own skills even if its a team game like in GRAW.As long as you ar fighting stronger and higher then you then its good for lvling http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

RoM_Mafia
03-26-2006, 11:12 AM
all i dont want in pec mode is the level determing how well someone shoots cause they get credits to boots strength accuracy and all that. I just think that was the dumbest idea ever.

Ghost Dog 3
03-26-2006, 12:39 PM
Well its understandable but when you have the choice of placing your own points its not like it really matters.I do believe as well that lvl up should only help in carrying items (more) or at unlocking stuff for your character.

RoM_Mafia
03-26-2006, 05:38 PM
I hate the ideas of class but the medic shouldnt be there. also why put classes. i rather just ccustomize the way my guy looks

del130528032037
03-27-2006, 08:53 AM
Face it! PEC mode is ****. Trash it. It was a dumb idea in the first place. I understand why some people like PEC mode, and most liked

it because of having more choices, but when it comes down to it you have limited choices because of PEC mode. The idea of classes is

stupid. Battlefield 2 has classes. Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter has classes, why do we have to fall into the ranks with these

games. I don't understand. If these games have classes and you are a big fan of PEC mode than play these games. The original Rainbow

Six series didn't have classes and didn't need classes. One thing that made Rainbow Six so cool was the use of any weapon that you want.

Why do the same thing that other games do? I thaught ubisoft prided itself in making games that are different, but they remain cool and

original. How can you take a game that is loved and transform it into a monster? When it comes to weapons and weapon slots: Keep it

simple. Many of the PEC mode people would be better off not trying to make this game another type of game, and going over to game that has classes.

RoM_Mafia
03-27-2006, 12:59 PM
ure right....it does limit you more than giving more.
I like black arrow because we were all one guy. We could use any gun that suits us best. Then they have these stupid class thing omg like i want to be a sniper just to use it cause he gets a bonus.
This isnt Ghost Recon ok. Stop doing stupid things. CLASSES SUK!!!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif
Also i would like to be able to customize the way my guy looks. THATS ALL, u dont need these stupid levels. What happened to ELO if thats what it was called. The question i ask you goliath or any other dev is what are you looking for
Quick Money
Game that will be played for years
is it a test to see what works.
Also why are u pushing for classes and Halo Health.

RoM_Mafia
03-27-2006, 01:08 PM
Also the issue is halo health. When u say that u must be more specific. I am completely against anything of halo to be put in a rainbow game. when u say Halo health we all think something like hearing the dumb noise and then ure recharged. I am a halo2 fan and i think what they did to it was incredible. I played 2 types of games fast paced which was halo, and slow paced realism which was black arrow. Halo 2 changed dramatically but the basis was the same as the original but beefed up. Lockdown.....um complete diffirent. And critical hour sucked just as bad. SO why not go in thAT direction and beef it up instead of changing the way the game is.It was stripped of the core things.

Also here is a BIG issue. The way the grenades were thrown and sound. Black arrow did a Phenominal job on that so keep it the same. I am still impressed on how real the explosions looked. The aim sytem was great also. Keep the walking speed the same 2.

Who here agrees?

Ghost Dog 3
03-27-2006, 03:05 PM
If you guys don't like PEC then don't play it!
You can still play the game whitout PEC.

RoM_Mafia
03-27-2006, 03:26 PM
True but... i want my name to be known and when i play ranked i was forced 2

Ghost Dog 3
03-27-2006, 04:00 PM
Yes its the only bad thing about it.Its like GRAW,you need to play Ranking mode to be on the leaderboards.

RoM_Mafia
03-27-2006, 07:23 PM
all i know since they put all this **** like the 3rd person camera hopefully its off during multiplayer like graw. Also make 2 major leaderboards one with pec levels and one witout.

What you guys think?

kimi_
03-27-2006, 09:14 PM
There is an option to play in a server without PEC mode. Surely you wouldn't be so bothered by PEC that you would want it eliminated entirely from the game, as it adds additional depth to the gameplay.

Ghost Dog 3
03-28-2006, 01:04 AM
Indeed.Leaderboards should be the same.As long its not based on Lvls and ELO since they seem to be cheated all the time! Ratio sounds good but then people can cheat that as well.ELO would be good if it can be fixed and if it could be watched by UBIsoft.

del130528032037
03-28-2006, 08:15 AM
Originally posted by kimi_:
There is an option to play in a server without PEC mode. Surely you wouldn't be so bothered by PEC that you would want it eliminated entirely from the game, as it adds additional depth to the gameplay.

I would. It's not that I totally hate PEC mode, but PEC mode just isn't Rainbow and never was, or should be in my opinion. Wether or not you can play without it doesn't matter to me. I hate the idea of PEC in Rainbow.

RoM_Mafia
03-28-2006, 01:16 PM
What depth? all it did was bring cheaters. Sure if i wanted to customize my guy then let me with close and stuff. They didnt have to make pec mode and the level thing with classes.

Also my MAIN ISSUE is that PEC was the only ranked leaderboard.....so i want to get noticed and get in a good clan but can i? NO because of cheaters and whats up with the increasing of stamina accuracy and all that.....thats the most stupid idea ive heard ever. Yea ok they talk about going back to old core style gameplay but all ive heard is


Halo Health
PEC
Classes
3rd person view on corners....wow
where are my old guns at?
no leanwalking...um yea its in graw and they made it completely useless in the open.
Bring back old syle leanwalking GRAW is to slow and get annoying looking over corners.
Grenade throwing...
where is my ELO at?
Levels are for halo.
kill/death ratio anyone?
and so many more.

RoM_Mafia
03-28-2006, 01:34 PM
Clothes and hats and all that could of been done for free. No need for pec I dont want my class defiying me and makin me use whats best. I want my gun to define me!!!

Ghost Dog 3
03-28-2006, 02:25 PM
The idea is nice if it was used for campaign mode.When I play whit a team I like to know we ar a squad of professionals not clowns whit there own costumes!

Idea is nice but only for Solo survival,Solo sharpshooter or campaign.

del130528032037
03-28-2006, 02:36 PM
I actually enjoyed dressing my guy up like he was a tough action ken doll. LOL. Just kidding.

I think that we should be able to use what ever we want when we want. Any color of Battle Dress Uniform, any weapon we want, any type of head gear, any type of boot because some boots are louder than others, any gloves.

If there is any such type of PEC it better be because you make your own PEC.

RoM_Mafia
03-28-2006, 04:14 PM
PEC can suk it. enywayz............ I would like to see some insanely nice maps. Like 5 small maps 5 medium and 5 big maps and 1 huge map.

RoM_Mafia
03-28-2006, 04:15 PM
I would be dissapointed if they came out with like 10 maps.....

Lnin0z2nd
03-28-2006, 07:16 PM
PEC for dressing up or changing your characters appearance is fine but you must not give any bonus to attributes, gear and weapons. Attributes and weapons should be even for all gamers weather they have 100 hours a week to play or 1. Skill should be the difference.

If you want to meddle with attributes or weapons then do it for the Single Player game only.

RoM_Mafia
03-28-2006, 09:09 PM
my point exactly. I was told by goliath(dveloper) that its completely different. well we need a litle more details than that. U might want to leak some out cause when u said halo health we thought of the Halo Health...so be more specific plz it only helps.
And one more thing id like to know, how are ranked games being set up when u search for em?

Also are we gonna have clan leaderboards on the game like blackarrow....if we have clan options. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Using gamebattles really suks and i hate that i have to for GRAW.

RoM_Mafia
03-28-2006, 09:23 PM
I also take it that Critical Hour really blows...apparently its on the forumns crazy. So again everyone blames pec. And for those who said its good never played RB63 and Black arrow, or didnt like it. So WHY STILL are we pushing for it? who knows.....classes blow big time. Like i said its not Recon.

Havent u guys noticed: All these games are tactical by the way.

Ghost Recon series = 3rd person. And is the best at it.

Splinter Cell = Stealth also the best at it.


Rainbow Series = First person Shooter= The best at that 2.

So why add the 3rd person camera?
Are u guys even listening? i know were the minority but...i guess money wins.
U guys run the gaming industry in all those areas with each specific game, so why and go do something like that. Ure only makin all of them be the same sooner or later and loose the diversity. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

SirJOW
03-28-2006, 09:46 PM
I don't mind either way as long as the PEC mode is ONLY a way to customize how your character looks and what "kit" your character equips by default.

When PEC starts to have (admittedly) interesting traits like your charcter "maturing" by having better abilities based on length of play; unfortunately unfairness is introduced. Kids who only play video games or "adults" with no life playing a game for weeks on end will be rewarded with an unfair advantage over others. An advantage given by the game no less!

Furthermore, the PEC limiting weapon selection between classes further compounds the problem by locking out severely unbalanced weapons to different classes such as the P90 (which was the only weapon worth a damn on Lockdown...assuming I played it.)

Ghost Dog 3
03-29-2006, 10:02 AM
Originally posted by RoM_Mafia:
I would be dissapointed if they came out with like 10 maps.....

Yes.GRSS,Lockdown and now GRAW all have 10 to 12 maps? I hear CHour don't have much as well!?
What happened to 15 maps plus the downloadable?

del130528032037
03-29-2006, 10:19 AM
Yeah, I agree. We definately need a lot of maps with this next Rainbow Six. Just because it's called Rainbow Six Vegas doesn't mean that all of the multiplayer maps should be in Vegas either. We should have maps in a lot of hostile territories in the world.

Ghost Dog 3
03-29-2006, 10:48 AM
Well we do start in Mexico so I'm sure we will get a map from there like the desert or a prison map.In vegas...kitchen from a casino map,slot machine map,poker room map (any card game),hotel map,dry cleaner map,airport map (inside the luggage area),casino roof map,parking map,VIP map,director board room map,monay area map (for the casino).I think thats what we will probably get lmao

RoM_Mafia
03-29-2006, 02:14 PM
Id like to see a map start witha huge hotel. One spawn is at the top of the hotel and one is outside hte hotel somewhere in the street or desert. Or a big hotel in the middle with a spwans on the opposite side of each other like left and right side of the hotel. Also i want gigantic street maps where there is a million ways to go....like the lad vegas strip where Tupac was shot.

And i also agree that pec should only let us customize looks. There also should be a leaderboard without classes. Id also like to see an insane ammount of guns....make that real Guns. Not some fake **** criticla hour has. O yea and i want a video in the near future say like.........2 months tops. youve been in development for 2 years now so cough one up plz.

Ghost Dog 3
03-29-2006, 02:44 PM
I don't think uge maps ar wanted.I don't want them for Vegas,medium is fine but uge nope.Will have less maps and it will kill the close quarter that most of us asked before.

RoM_Mafia
03-29-2006, 05:02 PM
i know but its not big....just a multistory hotel.

The way aiming is going to be set up is very worrying. I feel it has somewhat the same as GRAW.

del130528032037
03-31-2006, 08:06 AM
If there's a PEC mode which there is according to what Goliath.ubi.dev said, then it better not have so much power, that it directly affects the game. If there's a PEC mode it has no place in Rainbow Six.

If there's a way you can suprize me, UBI, then do it... otherwise I think Rainbow Six Vegas is going to be a good game, but PEC mode will complicate things.

RoM_Mafia
03-31-2006, 01:10 PM
u got that right.....pec has no right but its been changed as so they say. Still i hate the idea and classes

Ghost Dog 3
03-31-2006, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by RoM_Mafia:
i know but its not big....just a multistory hotel.

The way aiming is going to be set up is very worrying. I feel it has somewhat the same as GRAW.

I hope not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The zooming reticule was so dumb and slow.If thats on rainbow then its not one of my choices.

RoM_Mafia
03-31-2006, 05:05 PM
I personally hated the Ghost Recons. Actually anyone who played rainbow hated recon and whoever played recon hated rainbow....it was like a litle dispute over what gme was better. Obiously both of them captured a specific audience am i right? so anyway keep vegas completely differently or ull lose that litle dispute between games which ultimately makes both parties play the game longer to show how much better the games is and how much more harcore they are.

I hate the GRAW aiming....i think the dot like black arrow had was the best in any game. Also if youre supposed to be the "Ghost" team,i think ure the best of the best right? So why is the guns so innacurate when using them. I see the bullets fly like inches with one shot. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Dont make the same mistake on vegas.......after all we are the " Rainbow" Team so we must have some accuracy right? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

RoM_Mafia
03-31-2006, 05:07 PM
correction: the recticule over exagerates when shoting like a 3 burst

bdr41
03-31-2006, 07:46 PM
Originally posted by RoM_Mafia:
Actually anyone who played rainbow hated recon and whoever played recon hated rainbow....it was like a litle dispute over what gme was better. Obiously both of them captured a specific audience am i right?
No.

RoM_Mafia
04-01-2006, 08:44 AM
uhh...yea. If u talked to anyone on rainbow six 3 for the xbox they said recon suks, and vice versa. just to clear it up its not pc im talkin about... I still have rainbow players on my list that wont play graw.

KungFu_CIA
04-01-2006, 11:17 AM
Originally posted by RoM_Mafia:
Actually anyone who played rainbow hated recon and whoever played recon hated rainbow....

False.

I know a lot of players who play ALL the Tom Clancy games... But they play them all differently because they know they are DIFFERENT games.

Ghost Recon is long range, infrantry combat.

R6 is CQB, short-range combat.

Splinter Cell is CQB, short-range stealth and inflitration cat-and-mouse.

The problem is with games like Lockdown (console and PC) and GRAW for the original XBox where they make a bastardized version of the two genres and expect people to just "evolve" and "accept" this.

No.

GR and R6 are entirely two different genres (even though the core technology which spawned GR was from a modified Rouge Spear engine) and gamers already (should) know this when they go to play these games, in my opinion.

RoM_Mafia
04-01-2006, 01:52 PM
The problem is with games like Lockdown (console and PC) and GRAW for the original XBox where they make a bastardized version of the two genres and expect people to just "evolve" and "accept" this.

No.
lol thats true

RoM_Mafia
04-01-2006, 01:53 PM
well all the people i knew were people that were good and did clan matches on gamebattles and went to tourneys.

RoM_Mafia
04-01-2006, 02:13 PM
I was reading up on other posts on other sites....and they were talking about controller settings. I think they should iclude the rb6 Black Arrow controls on vegas just incase the new controls are poo.

captmac07
04-01-2006, 09:02 PM
The problem with the PEC is that your forced into what weapons you can carry, and you have to earn skill points to move up. But as we all know the cheaters find a way around that and level up to 40 before an honest player can get to 10. Same problem with the Economy System, you want me to buy Grenades and other merchandise but you can bet someone will find a way to GLITCH them for free and throw 10 at you every round,so how's that make it fun for those that don't cheat. Further more is this not an Elite Squad that gets the things they need from my tax dollars, Funny I never saw my brother in law, who is an Army Ranger in the GUN STORE buying ammo before heading to IRAQ. Come on UBI a little realism, if I wanted to play Counterstrike then I'd buy it.

RoM_Mafia
04-08-2006, 05:59 PM
Here is the deal.

Ghost Recon= 3rd person,classes,outdoormaps.

Splinter Cell: Close combat,stealthy,deep storyline.

Rainbow Six= 1st person,indoormaps,no classes.

The problem is, that ubisoft doesnt understand that you basiccaly own the industry with those games. You try to make a game that everyone loves which is inpossible. So why do that? just concentrate on each games specific core gameplay. That way everyones happy. It also reduces the chance of screw ups and all 3 games combined will give you more money than one game being crammed with junk for everyone to love. The thing thats messed up is that alot of people said ubisoft lost credibility and respect and will only rent the game first.

Ghost Dog 3
04-09-2006, 02:03 PM
Originally posted by RoM_Mafia:
The thing thats messed up is that alot of people said ubisoft lost credibility and respect and will only rent the game first.

Yes I agree whit him.When I first got into Rainbow Six and Splinter Cell all other games were useless.All I wanted was to play UBi's game but now its different.Lockdown was Ok for two weeks but then got quickly annoying.

GRAW is amazing but the same is happening there.

What was good is slowly being replaced or changed by new stuff that aren't even better then what it used to be.

Darth_SS
04-09-2006, 04:54 PM
I'm almost saying yes. I think the P.E.C. mode as it stands right now is a bit too restricting, with the level requirements and whatnot, but I think they should bring it back. In reality, armies do train many specialists. Combat Engineers, Heavy Infantry, Combat Medics, and many more. It would be nice to see that kind of dynamic applied to Rainbow Six.

The biggest complaint I'm seeing on the forums is the abuse of levelling-up glitches. If those were fixed, I almost want to say that people would just chill out, but I know from lurking in these forums that that simply isn't the case.

Basically, Ubi, you're damned if you do, damned if you don't. The "hardcore" on these forums will most likely find something to complain about regardless of what you do. On a grand marketing scale, the majority did really like the P.E.C. mode, and just hate the glitches.

Perhaps a system like in Battlefield 2 or GRAW would work best. Don't make rewards absolutely neccesary to be effective online, but give different classes different abilities that are needed to be good online. Also, stick with the ability to get new aesthetic details as you play more and more online. It does evoke that feeling of "Oh poop! This guy is better than me!" without needing to look at levels and stats and such.

RoM_Mafia
04-09-2006, 05:14 PM
what got me was the stupid thing when u level up you could increase the guys stamina, accurracy and watnot. how stupid. And oh, on a grand scaled people said pec was not good. And i play with people that played on gamebattles and teamcompete and won tournaments on mlg and such and all of them agree PEC suked. The only people who liked it was noobs that hated black arrow and probly loved counterstrike. Yea um run n gun is for noobs and there were many on lockdown.

WGSpeddyeddy25
04-09-2006, 07:19 PM
Dam, this whole thread is a battle field. Its crazy. I must say though that I would prefer PEC gone, you say that we have the choice not to play it, but it does affect us for even existing. I just wanted to create a character, not have stats for him and all that unfair ****. I just wanted to use a G36C, but I couldnt do that, I had to wait until my character was "leveled up". On RS3 I'm a pretty good player but on Lockdown it was whoever was highest in level who ruled at the top. I really truly thought that the Rainbow six series would stay true to its realistic value but I was wrong. There isnt person on this planet that would tell you its possible to respawn (except for the crazies). If you want a true rainbow six game, then make it a rainbow six game. I still play RS3 and its still popular. Respawn is placed in the wrong game, I think you're thinking of Halo or Unreal Championship. If you're gonna put PEC in the game, have it customization only, no statistical **** or your gonna have cheaters running a muck. Classes restrict people to certain weapons and equipment, and FYI (to the guy who claims to be a medic in the army) Medics dont "heal people", they dont perform life saving operations in the middle of a battle field, if your shot in the friggin heart your gonna die ok, if your bleeding in several areas your not gonna get back on your feet to fight again ok, once your patched up you go to a near by safe zone where the real surgeons save you and help you get well and let you rest to recover for a few weeks, because once your in enough pain to go down your not gonna get back up for a while. Go Back to your roots, not by giving me old missions in the Lockdown candy wrapper. Give me Rainbow six back, the game that got high scores from IGN and Gamespot (and a ton of others). Sure, we want new things, but not things that change the base of the game to what it was opposed to 5 years ago!

EDIT: JFYI, no one has asked either me, my brother, or two of my friends on whether they liked PEC or not, and the people I talk to online claim no one has asked them either. so if your statistics say 99% loved PEC, maybe you shouldnt base that off a clan or two, usually that has split decisions. and like I said before, if stats and anything that could make a character better were taken out I wouldnt care at all on the subject. I hate how those Lockdown lovers say its realistic, its not! once you die your stats should RESTART, thats only realistic if you ask me. and on Respawn once again, some players are just way too impatient if you ask me AKA little kids mostly. I miss team survival because your one life was valuable, now they got that team sharpshooter **** with people running around like beheaded chickens. I have my hopes up for Vegas though, I dont know what Goliath is talking about when he says PEC is tweaked, I hope its a major tweak, but I can trust his words because he is a pretty trustworthy source if ya ask me! (Just so everyone knows Im talkin about his credibility since he works on the game :P)

RoM_Mafia
04-12-2006, 03:32 PM
Originally posted by:bdr41
At this point with Rainbow Six: Vegas, all we have are a handful of screenshots and some sketchy information about the game to go by. While it€s admittedly far too early to say what features are €˜good€ or €˜bad,€ we do have enough information at our disposal to begin to say what seems promising and what is a little distressing.

Promising:

-- A.I. -- I€m very glad to see that the A.I. is a major focus of the design team, and that they even have someone in charge of the A.I. design in addition to a ton of programmers.

-- Graphics -- I have no idea how similar the final graphics will be to what we€ve been shown, but the screens they€ve teased us with look great. It€s also nice to see the Rainbow operators appear to mean business -- relatively appropriately geared including assault helmets (and no visible cornrows) -- although the South Korean operator€s backpack radio is questionable.

-- The development team€s recognition of Lockdown€s shortcomings.

-- Importance of realism -- the developers have mentioned numerous times how important a sense of realism is, and that they know what the hardcore R6 gamers want and why they want it. They also stated a desire to €˜return to the core values of the series.€

-- Addition of Aaron Gilman and individual motion captor actor for each operator -- This could be a big step forward in giving the game a realistic look and feel -- as long as they don€t get carried away (see more on this in the €˜Distressing€ section).

-- Less tangos, more difficult kills -- Better enemy A.I. and opponents actually communicating and working together.

-- No loading or cut scenes -- I know this scares some people, but it could be good. I like the GRAW-style way of showing insertions and the seamless gameplay.

Distressing:

-- More accessible -- The first thing the developers say in the EGM story is a desire to make the game more accessible. I can understand the desire to make the series more attractive to a broader audience, but if not done just right, they risk alienating all of the fans that are already on board. Lockdown taught this lesson in a harsh manner. The developers recognize that pleasing both groups (new and hardcore fans) is a difficult thing to accomplish, but just knowing this doesn€t mean they€ll actually be able to pull it off.

Tied to this: €˜Less Dying€ and €˜Halo-style€ heath -- We still need more information before we make final judgments, but these ideas could be the type that scare away the existing audience. One of the things that makes R6 special is the feeling of danger and the unforgiving nature of the gameplay. You screw up or just get unlucky, you die. That€s not a weakness of the title, it€s a strength.

-- Cinematic emphasis -- There has been a lot of talk in delivering a cinematic experience with R6: Vegas. Doesn€t necessarily sound like a bad thing on the surface, but as we€ve all seen in the past, this often results in titles that are extremely linear in nature and lack replay value. It doesn€t have to be this way -- for example, even though they need to make sure you see something to move along the story, limit that to key areas that you absolutely have to hit to meet your objectives. Outside of that, give us lot of freedom in deciding how to approach and take down those key areas.

-- Just one three-man team and no planning stage -- Not a surprise, but I was holding my breath that the developers would grow the console version up to meet the needs of an emerging audience of maturing (PC-style) console gamers while taking full advantage of the power of the next-gen machines.

-- Over emphasis on members€ €˜individuality.€ As mentioned above in the €˜Promising€ section, the plan to use individual actors for the motion capture of each operator could turn out fantastic. The key, however, would be in not making a big deal out of their differences while doing it. All of the actors should try to carry out the same motions -- their individuality will still shine through, just on a much more subtle level. This is something that shouldn€t really be obvious -- the game should just feel more realistic as a result even if you can€t put your finger on it. When you have just one motion-capture actor, the immersion is lessened because it feels unnatural. This is especially true in sports games where, for example, every football player has the same gait, from the 350lb DT to the 180lb WR. However, in real life a sports fan can immediately tell the difference in running styles between two 210lb RBs, let alone athletes with dramatically different builds. This unnaturalness is heightened in sports games when the players€ steps seem to sync up.

However, the developers€ comments make me fear that they are focusing too much on making the operators look different from one another. This could be just as jarring, as they may be required to use over-the-top movements to make their differences obvious. Again, I think this advancement would be better served being delivered on a more subconscious level.

And I haven€t even mentioned their personalities, and this is where emphasizing individuality could really lead to clichéd, over-the-top characters.

Gilman (wit his Hollywood background) seems to want to push things dangerously far. Hopefully Béland is able to simultaneously leverage his talents while still keeping him in check.

-- Lack of control over our teammates€ kit -- I€m not sure if this is actually the case, but all of the screenshots show the British operator with the same gun and the recent 1up preview even mentions his €˜weapon of choice.€ I want to decide what his weapon of choice is myself (along with the rest of his kit).

-- Limited co-op -- Just four players in online co-op. I was hoping for more so that we could create our own multiple team assaults that don€t seem to be a part of the plan for the single-player experience.

Still entirely unknown:

-- Nature of the maps and our resultant tactics/strategies -- linear vs. nonlinear. This is huge in my opinion. I desperately don€t want to be dragged down one pre-established path, moving from one hallway to the next.

-- Storyline realism -- This is important too IMHO. For example, if the storyline focuses around some major terrorist attack on Vegas and the story says that your team has been sent in all alone to save the day, well that€s really lame. It should be evident that you€re just part of a larger operation and that other Rainbow teams are doing their part as well (and maybe even FBI HRT and Vegas SWAT members as well). This could be accomplished on a number of levels, from just simple mentions of what other operations are going on in chatter from HQ to establish the ambiance, to actually seeing other teams insert nearby you, all the way to actually interacting/teaming up with A.I.-controlled Rainbow assault teams and snipers on occasion.

The only way a three-man team assault (with no other active teams) could feel real at all is if it is a minor incident that the public doesn€t even know about. Something like hitting some small terrorist cells in preemptive assaults before they get a chance to carry out their terrorist plots.

WOW look how accurate he is on everything.

RoM_Mafia
04-12-2006, 03:36 PM
Originally posted by: councilor_bbco

this is from IGN.com:

"With the current, very-early build that we've only talked about with Ubi, you'll be able to storm through the front door with guns blazing; you'll be able to rappel down the building and bust through the window guns blazing; you'll be able to find another more quiet entrance and go in guns blazing. The point is that you'll have many choices in how you want to eliminate the terrorists, all depending on your style of play.
"

<< coment >> I like the sound of this! It's always been my biggest bug-bear about the console series - the limited route when you should be able to execute the mission however you plan it.

- Weapon Customisations: this i like too! It's tiring & boring being limited to a small handfull of silenced weapons, when all you want to do (in the name of fun ) is use a decent AR but not make enough noise to alert tangos two-towns-over! A choice of scopes would be nice to as I'm not too keen on anything over x2 for CQB work.

- The return of the R6 & R6:BA team...this i feel will be a "good thing".

- Even though I'll probably be flamed for this, I like the idea of the whole looking round corners 3rd person stylee. I'm not taking the PDZ referrence seriously, as we're all guilty of using something else (that probably isn't 100% accurate) as a comparrison just to get an idea or point accross, so the way I'm thinking of this is more akin to GRAW when you're in 3rd person there. And I like that.

- A.I. & Less enemies: maybe a thing learned from Ghost Recon Poo (2) - loads of enemies does not a good game make! One of the most comical things in the R6 games was accidentally making a noise and the Tangos saying "What was that?!" before looking around & walking away from your possition! And I esspecially love the way that you'd **** someone in the face from a distance only to watch his buddy, who's standing RIGHT NEXT TO HIM! look to where his mate once was before resuming his "vigilant posing" - classic! Hopefully we'll see the end of this!?

Negative:

- The health thing: if this is true, this is a "bad thing", unless of course it was some kind of option for new players that can be disabled?


Unknown:

- Maps: I hope they're BIG in a complex scale, and modelled on real locations.

- Cinematic Emphasis: not too sure about this, I'll reserve my judgment until I know more.

- PEC: I liked the idea, but I'd like some kind of "character" creation for online play that can be used for both co-op/buddy games AND adversarial matches.

- Upgradability: Live! Marketplace is getting better, and I'd like to see UBI support its titles fully (GRAW as well): and not just cater to the PvP crowd, gamers like co-op too!!!!!
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So there you go, thems is my thoughts...

I know the forums are going to be full of: "It doesn't have *INSERT THING OF CHOICE*, so I'm NOT going to buy it!" - before any REAL facts have been released, but lets hope more posts like this one take hold of the forums & encourage PROPER discussion. Again: Good Post!

Ciao!

LOL Cmon......storm through buildings and go in guns blazin???there u go ubi, back to the run n gun gameplay again.

WGSpeddyeddy25
04-13-2006, 03:41 PM
Dam, nice, those are pretty powerful posts. I must agree with what most was said in the first post.