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mike240se
02-04-2007, 05:23 PM
hey, I am brand new to combat simulators, I have experience with flight simulator and am learning quickly in lock on but i am just totally terrible at il2. I have read pages and pages in this forum and have tried all the suggestions, i cant even hit an enemy bomber formation once. I was stalling like crazy but as long as i stay away from the latest mustang i seem to be ok with stalling now but the shooting is rough. I tried leading as explained and tried getting super close, i have been using the bf109g2 lately since it doesnt stall. I am set at full reality settings except i turned on unlim ammo to practice shooting and it isnt helping. I get slightly off their six, aim for elevators or engine as mentioned, get within .3km and shoot and it doesnt hit and so i tried leading, longer bursts, holding it down, everything and i just cant get a shot on.

So I have been looking on airwarefare and other sites but havent found some basic flight training videos etc. Flankertraining.com got me going awesome in lock on but i cant find any tutorial videos for il2, something with voiceover if possible. I am getting discouraged fast and just want to go in the right direction.

I am using a saitek x52, i have a ch yoke but arent using it for il2 at all as of yet. I have a fast machine and the fps is very high at perfect settings so thats not causing an issue.

mike240se
02-04-2007, 05:35 PM
I just realized I didnt put this in community help, sorry, feel free to move it, or not.

Ken_Det
02-04-2007, 05:46 PM
You know, I've tried realistic gunnery, and it didnt look that realistic to me.
I got within 40 feet of a I 16, and gave it a good burst from behind.
It look like most of the bullets went right through it, and a little bit of plane fell off.
I do know that when you fire the plane will pull one way or a nother but I did adjust for that when I fired.
I just dont know how this could be.

mike240se
02-04-2007, 06:00 PM
Originally posted by Ken_Det:
You know, I've tried realistic gunnery, and it didnt look that realistic to me.
I got within 40 feet of a I 16, and gave it a good burst from behind.
It look like most of the bullets went right through it, and a little bit of plane fell off.
I do know that when you fire the plane will pull one way or a nother but I did adjust for that when I fired.
I just dont know how this could be.

So you dont fly with real gunnery on? What about when you fly online and its required? Then you get destroyed if you dont practice?

Taylortony
02-04-2007, 06:29 PM
Firstly........ Welcome http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

and secondly try this site,

http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/fmbguide/intro.htm (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/%7Echapman/il2guide/fmbguide/intro.htm)

it will come though, just give it a little time http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

you may want to set the gun convergency in the main arming window, this sets the distance the rounds meet at........ if you are 2 far away say converge at 500m and you are shooting at it at 100m then the rounds will be missing the plane and meeting up 400m past it, similar if set at 100m and you are firing at a plane 500m away the rounds will meet cross and be heading outward away from the plane........ i set mine initially by picking a tree on the ground, diving at it and firing when i am about the distance i would normally fire at a plane..... the shell burst on the ground will tell you if they will miss the tree you need to adjust them so you get a tight grouping around the tree at your favourite range.

Ken_Det
02-04-2007, 06:44 PM
Just stateing that it dont seam that realistic to me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
I've wached a lot of real footage of gun cameras.
The realistic gunnery in the game is not the same.
As far as pratice.
Been playing this game from when IL2 came out years ago.
Cant go by the # of posts I have http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif
Originally posted by mike240se:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ken_Det:
You know, I've tried realistic gunnery, and it didnt look that realistic to me.
I got within 40 feet of a I 16, and gave it a good burst from behind.
It look like most of the bullets went right through it, and a little bit of plane fell off.
I do know that when you fire the plane will pull one way or a nother but I did adjust for that when I fired.
I just dont know how this could be.

So you dont fly with real gunnery on? What about when you fly online and its required? Then you get destroyed if you dont practice? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

OMK_Hand
02-05-2007, 02:45 AM
Hi mike240se.

http://www.darts-page.com/

Navigate to:
Movies/Instructional videos that shows one how to do stuff in the sim.

Don't believe Dart where he writes that he stinks at the game. The advice in his videos is sound, and very well put.

I'm sorry to hear that you're getting discouraged fast. Imagine that Combat, flying, and tactical flying are three disciplines that are very separate from one another, yet are interdependent upon one another. This is what makes the game hard without some good experience on at least these three stages. This means learning to fly, learning to shoot, then learning to fight.
Is it worth trying these things one at a time in the quick mission builder?
Try taking smaller, focused steps.

Anyhow, Darts films are great.

Good luck.

leitmotiv
02-05-2007, 03:23 AM
Mike204se, I think you are asking for basic flight sim operating aids. If so get this, it is not for IL-2, but it is the best learner's manual for combat flight sims, and it explains how airplanes work so you will be able to use trim, mixture, etc.

MICROSOFT COMBAT FLIGHT SIMULATOR 2: WWII PACIFIC THEATER: INSIDE MOVES by Jeff Van West

As for shooting, stick with full realism, and use a nice, stable friendly Hurricane I in Finnish markings. Set up 16 Soviet SB 2 100 bombers, and go after them. They are not very dangerous, and you will have a chance to learn to shoot. Don't even bother trying to dogfight. Stick with shooting at bombers until you are proficient in flying and gunnery. Blenheims make excellent targets. Try easy, uncomplex fighters like the J8A, I-153, and I-16.

Learn to walk, and you will be surprised how fast you can learn to run.

mike240se
02-05-2007, 03:36 AM
Thanks guys I took your advice and checked out darts site, they are very helpful. I also decreased the convergence and started going after non armed bombers with a bf109g2. After getting 4 of those i went put 4 il'2s in rookie mode and had trouble, i got a couple kills here and there but i was having a tough time. I do have basic flight knowledge from flight simulator but i havent used that much longer but i do understand the instruments, control services, trimming, mixture, etc. But my flying isnt that great, I cant take off and land no problem at full settings so from what I read thats a good thing since that is hard for most noobs. My main problem is shooting and combat as mentioned above but my shakey flight skills dont help, sometimes its hard to keep the target in the same place for a full second to shoot off the rounds. Dog fighting in this sim is harder than i thought, but thats cool, just gotta learn and practice although I think a real person watching or flying with me might be the best thing, someone who can say wtf are you doing that for, do this, etc....

EDIT: Thanks for the guide above too, I am going to print it at work tomorrow, i guess i should print the actual manual too, I think pacific fighters is what it said to print?

Tully__
02-05-2007, 03:38 AM
I get slightly off their six, aim for elevators or engine as mentioned, get within .3km and shoot

That's actually not that close. 0.3km is 300m, or if you're not familiar with metric about 330 yards or nearly 1000 feet. Very few experienced pilots here consider anything further away than 200m as even vaguely close.

It might help a little if we knew which version of the game you're flying? There's some slight changes in handling and gunnery from version to version.

Chris0382
02-05-2007, 07:46 AM
Convergence depends on what you are shooting.
I can pick off some bombers at 1000m with 300m convergence with a good trimmed aircraft while others I have no effect on.

Some planes in the same squadron of the same type seem indestructable so you gotta pick out the right plane. I kept shooting one bomber point blank and just a little smoke trail develped and switched to shooting another fresh bomber and wolaaa it went down immediately.

Some planes Ive spent 45 minutes chopping it apart (unlimited ammo and fuel) until it crashed in the water and still did not get the kill. It layed flat in the water.

All planes are not created equal and some planes are not meant to be shot down IMO.

Xiolablu3
02-05-2007, 09:58 AM
Lol@post above,

It all depends what you hit.

There is no magic formula for hitting the pilot at 1000 yards, but it COULD happen.

Read up on probability.

mike240se
02-05-2007, 03:29 PM
Yeah since I set my convergence at 200m i get within 200 meters usually, it feels pretty close, any closer and I dont have time to shoot. Also the only way I can shoot is if i slow down and kinda match their speed, I cant do any of the stuff I would think I should do such as coming down at a plane from above with an altitude and speed advantage, i cant turn that advantage into kills at all even though everything i read says to get that advantage, the target passes by the front of the plane in like 1/10000 of a second and notice i said the plane not the sight cause it rarely passes in front of the site! lol

I am running the latest version 1946 dvd version 4.07m.

Also tully, i tried using your x52 profile with my x52 but when i loaded it in the latest profile editor it has no key's assigned and when i right click on an assignment instead of the list of options its a huge list saying "New Keypress 1" through like 100, when i select one they are mapped to something but it doesnt say what like it's supposed to. Do you know what I am doing wrong? I could really use a good x52 profile cause the saitek version only has like 20 keys in its programming.

EDIT: What would be the best thing to print out to read offline? I just checked the pacific fighters manual but it seems to not be the info i am looking for, would the guide mentioned above be best?

Taylortony
02-05-2007, 03:51 PM
u check the link on my post?

mike240se
02-05-2007, 04:10 PM
Originally posted by Taylortony:
u check the link on my post?

Yes, that was the guide i was refering to, I was asking if it would be the best long manual to print and read offline.

bluedragon1950
02-05-2007, 07:01 PM
mike240se,

I started playing this game two years ago: three months offline and then joined the online servers. I was fresh meat on the table for about six to eight months but I learned day by day and getting better and better. I now do manage to get some kills on Zeke-vs-Wildcats and Warclouds but still considere myself a noob.

I strongly recommend that you register for flight training with this group: http://www.joint-ops.com/joil2fb/default.asp

Hang in there because this game is amazing and you will get to know many great aces who will help you.

mike240se
02-05-2007, 10:57 PM
Originally posted by bluedragon1950:
mike240se,

I started playing this game two years ago: three months offline and then joined the online servers. I was fresh meat on the table for about six to eight months but I learned day by day and getting better and better. I now do manage to get some kills on Zeke-vs-Wildcats and Warclouds but still considere myself a noob.

I strongly recommend that you register for flight training with this group: http://www.joint-ops.com/joil2fb/default.asp

Hang in there because this game is amazing and you will get to know many great aces who will help you.

Wow, this sim takes longer to learn than flying a real combat plane lol... I will def. check register for flight training thats pretty cool they do that.. I have also been flying lomac flying cliffs and its also alot of fun, i am surprised that il2 has such a much larger following being that the electronics and avionics t in lomac are pretty cool too. But i notice that il2 has roughly 85% larger following based on activity and hyperlobby. But i am huge wwii buff so this sim is awesome for me...

bluedragon1950
02-06-2007, 07:11 AM
That's me, other pilots are learning things quicker so pls do not consider my experience as standard. I think you will be moving faster considering your flying hours with LOMAC. I played LOMAC too but gave it up after trying IL2 two years ago.

I registered with Joint-Ops training back in December 2006 and will be starting my 1st training on Wed/2/7. My first impression: it's a very professional group of peoples and they do it for free. One instructor spent six hours to help me in setting up the training environment!

mike240se
02-06-2007, 11:09 PM
yeah i signed up, waiting to hear back from them on a training date. I am going to see if they can get me in sooner if someone drops out or doesnt show last minute or something...

mike240se
02-07-2007, 04:08 AM
hey guys i have been flying and using your tips and am learning quick (i think) but today when i started a campaign and went on a bombing mission (non bomb site bombing) and noticed a pretty big problem. The scenery is amazing, the effects, clouds, water, landscape everything is great, the frame rate is very high, very smooth everything was working great, my machine doesnt even heat up really running il2 at full perfect settings. So I was all happy and then i realized one huge problem, things on the ground are not loading till i am too close to them, makes it impossible to know where to bomb or fly towards cause i have to get so close to the area of the ground for them to appear, they just like appear out of thin air. the sim doesnt stutter or slow down or anything like its overwhelmed so i dont know what to do. the visibility distance is all the way up...

I am running a e6600, 2gb gskill ddr800 dual channel, evga 7950gt ko 512mb ddr3, antec truepower trio 550watt psu, windows xp sp2, latest nvidia drivers, everything in dxdiag is ok, flight simulator x works great and lock on does over 100 fps at full mode without problem. I am running dvd version of 1946 4.07m.

I am running resolution 1280x1024 (i put that in conf.ini) and water=3. fighters are no problem dog fights are great and no slow down at all, this is the only problem, its not just tanks either its some trees and buildings, etc. like i was doing a track and its saying ok we have the tanks in site and i am like wtf there is nothing there and then when i get alot closer it loads.. please help its making the sim unplayable...

mike240se
02-07-2007, 09:42 PM
I am going to move my last reply to a new topic in the help forum since its completely off topic for this thread... thanks..

knightflyte
02-08-2007, 03:55 AM
If you want to see where your shots ae going while you are lined up on an enemy try this.

Go to PROGRAMS>UBISOFT>IL2 STURMOVIK and open your configure page. (It's listed as conf in the main IL2 folder. It's usually the second item after all the folders)

Once you find your configure file open it with notepad then scroll down to the section that says [game].

You will notice Arcade=0 (default) Change that to Arcade=1.

Save the file and boot up IL2. Now when you make contact with an enemy with your cannon or machine gun bullits you will see arrows going through where you hit.

This will help you see where you are hitting, and where you need to make improvements in aiming.

When the time comes where you get a good feel for how the bullits track and how far you need to be to shoot accurately then you can just change Arcade=1 back to Arcade=0.

As far as convergence.... I have mine set for 150 meters. I find that I shoot rather close to an enemy, and a short convergence helps eliminate the possibility of my bullits flying 'AROUND' the plane.

Don't get discouraged. We've all been there. There are days when I'm STILL there, and feel I won't get as good as I like.

Strange thing though is when you DO get the hang of shooting and flying it's kind of like riding a bike. It feels natural, like you've always done it.

Another thing to help would be to check your joystick settings in the IL2 control panel. This is an adjustment that 'smoothes' out joystick input so the natural twitches we make that cause us to ruin our aim are lessened.

IL2 joy is a little software program that can very easily create a control INPUT profile for your stick. It's especially useful with a HOTAS and rufdder peddles set up.

JG14_Josf
02-08-2007, 04:38 AM
Mike,

Recording track files and playing them back as mission debrief (gun cam) film helps like this:

http://mysite.verizon.net/res0l0yx/Art/Nastyshot.jpg

In the gun sight for the German planes (if I am not mistaken) the round circle is 100 meters range when a Fighter Plane is wing tip to wing tip in the circle (10 meter wingspan). A Bomber is 300 meters away (30 meter wing span) when wing tip to wing tip.

The shots about are 100 meters away (in range 100 meters or less).

These shots below are out of range (more than 100 meters).

http://mysite.verizon.net/res0l0yx/IL2Flugbuch/Yak.jpg
OOOPs the last shots were in range.

I will try to pass on a few gunnery suggestions that were passed to me.

Do not pull the trigger in a way that moves the stick around because you pull the trigger (do not ˜flinch') or push the cannon button.

Aim with the gun sight – shoot one short burst – check aim with the tracers – reposition the plane (gun) and re-aim with the gun sight – shoot only (this is very important) only when you are SURE that your aim will result in a hit on the target.

If you follow that last tip, then, your gunnery will always improve – it is a self correcting feedback loop.

If you stick with it you may some day have as much fun as I do playing WWII fighter combat.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Zoom2136
02-08-2007, 08:52 AM
Originally posted by Ken_Det:
You know, I've tried realistic gunnery, and it didnt look that realistic to me.
I got within 40 feet of a I 16, and gave it a good burst from behind.
It look like most of the bullets went right through it, and a little bit of plane fell off.
I do know that when you fire the plane will pull one way or a nother but I did adjust for that when I fired.
I just dont know how this could be.

CONVERGENCE my young friend CONVERGENCE http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

Zoom2136
02-08-2007, 09:10 AM
Originally posted by mike240se:
Thanks guys I took your advice and checked out darts site, they are very helpful. I also decreased the convergence and started going after non armed bombers with a bf109g2. After getting 4 of those i went put 4 il'2s in rookie mode and had trouble, i got a couple kills here and there but i was having a tough time. I do have basic flight knowledge from flight simulator but i havent used that much longer but i do understand the instruments, control services, trimming, mixture, etc. But my flying isnt that great, I cant take off and land no problem at full settings so from what I read thats a good thing since that is hard for most noobs. My main problem is shooting and combat as mentioned above but my shakey flight skills dont help, sometimes its hard to keep the target in the same place for a full second to shoot off the rounds. Dog fighting in this sim is harder than i thought, but thats cool, just gotta learn and practice although I think a real person watching or flying with me might be the best thing, someone who can say wtf are you doing that for, do this, etc....

EDIT: Thanks for the guide above too, I am going to print it at work tomorrow, i guess i should print the actual manual too, I think pacific fighters is what it said to print?

Most fighting in done around 300-400 kph (190 to 250 mph).

Imagine a straight line that run from the tail and out of the front of the plane you want to kill (along its longitudinal axis)...

WHEN about 100m out --- Just shoot approx. 1 plane lenght in front of were your target is (along the longitudinal axis (ROLL AXIS))... and voila... instant kill...

Basis for calculation... 400kph is equal to about 111 meters (m) per second (400kph x 1000m / 60min / 60sec). Your bullets travel at about 850 kph (235 m/sec)... so if you shoot at a target 100m in front of you its going to take your bullets about 0.4 sec to reach the target... in this time the target will have travelled about 46 meters (111m x 0.4 sec)... hence approx. ONE PLANE LENGHT

The farther away he is ... the more lead you got to give... the above calculation will help ya... and eventually becomes second nature...

ONE MORE THING... at 100m (with a plane with wing mounted guns) you got to shoot a bit higher than where your intended target is... So if on a 109 dead 6's... aim for the top of is rudder and you will hit it in the middle... aim for the middle and your bullets will pass under it... becase you bullet don't have the time to raise to the level of the gunsight....

Enjoy