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Tambovsky
01-04-2010, 10:20 AM
Hi all,

I returned to flying the Il-2 series after a long pause, I played it in the past but not really intensive. I'm a big flightsim fan and was focused mainly on LOMAC and FC during last 4-5 years.

I played this sim 4 years ago, it was patched to Il-2:FB + Ace + PF and this is what I still have, now reinstalled all over again 'til I get my hands on a Il-2 1946 copy and patch it to 4.09m.

I played campaigns in the past but I never had any real flightgear so it was very arcadish in terms of difficulty and controls settings.

Now I'd like to reset my memory and do some training free flights before going for SP campaigns and joining MP fights. I'll use those free flights for gear setup (TM Cougar, Saitek Pro flight rudders and TIR4) and for getting used to specific aircraft...trouble is I'm not very good with creating missions.

So when I start Full mission builder and select the map how do I add (my) aircraft?!

Please be patient with me as I never paid any attention to Il-2 apart from casual campaign flights!

Thanks guys!

TheGrunch
01-04-2010, 11:16 AM
So when I start Full mission builder and select the map how do I add (my) aircraft?!
Go into View->Object, choose your aircraft, check the box that says player, and then Ctrl+Left Click on the ground somewhere. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif There's a website here (http://www.il2-fullmissionbuilder.com/index.php) with loads of FMB tutorials.

Zeus-cat
01-04-2010, 01:41 PM
Tambovsky,

Check out the Nugget's Guide which is stickied about 6 or 7 topics down from the top of the General Discussion page. Teh Nugget's Guide has a lot of good info for new and returning players. Recommended in that guide is my training campaign - Straight From the Farm. You can get my campaign from M4T by using the link below.

Straight From the Farm is specifically designed to show you how to take off and land on grass, and aircraft carriers. It also tells you what functions need to be mapped for takeoffs and landings.

Tambovsky
01-05-2010, 09:55 AM
Thanks guys big time, last time I played Il-2 I had no broadband internet so things like forums and MP were a no-no for me.

Anyway Zeus, I said I've brought it up to Pacific Fighters as I still have no 1946 so I hope your tutorial campaign works with PF, yes?

Nevermind Zeus,I registered over at M4T, found your Straight from the farm campaigh and found an answer!

Thanks!

Zeus-cat
01-05-2010, 09:58 AM
The training campaign was written in PF so it will definitely work in PF.

Tambovsky
01-06-2010, 08:50 AM
I've started flying in a Bf-109E, I mostly do some free flights with no threats where I learn takeoffs, holding the plane down the runway with rudders and trim but my landings suck big time.

I suppose different aircraft have different approach figures (speed, AoA) and I'd like to discover these for Emil.

So what do you say, what's the best way to land it in terms of figures?

Thanks!

thefruitbat
01-06-2010, 10:03 AM
Originally posted by Tambovsky:
I've started flying in a Bf-109E, I mostly do some free flights with no threats where I learn takeoffs, holding the plane down the runway with rudders and trim but my landings suck big time.

I suppose different aircraft have different approach figures (speed, AoA) and I'd like to discover these for Emil.

So what do you say, what's the best way to land it in terms of figures?

Thanks!

keep your approach at around 180kph IAS, 30% throttle, for about 160ish touchdown.

AndyJWest
01-06-2010, 10:43 AM
Originally posted by thefruitbat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tambovsky:
I've started flying in a Bf-109E, I mostly do some free flights with no threats where I learn takeoffs, holding the plane down the runway with rudders and trim but my landings suck big time.

I suppose different aircraft have different approach figures (speed, AoA) and I'd like to discover these for Emil.

So what do you say, what's the best way to land it in terms of figures?

Thanks!

keep your approach at around 180kph IAS, 30% throttle, for about 160ish touchdown. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sounds about right, but don't forget, you use your THROTTLE to control angle of descent, and ELEVATOR (or preferably, elevator trim) to control speeds, right until the final flare. The later 109s need to come in a bit faster. Practice flying slowly in landing configuration at say 1000m, so you can feel how it responds as it is about to stall, that way you will have height to recover (provided you don't spin!). Beware of making large throttle movements at these speeds, this can induce a roll.

EDIT ----
Just done a quick test. I'd say you can come in a bit slower: 160 kmh on finals is ok with full flaps.

na85
01-06-2010, 11:36 AM
Personally I try to avoid long, extended landing runs because there's always the possibility somebody will come and shoot you.

So I like to make my approaches fast, lowering the flaps once I get below 290kph and then gear down once I hit 240 or so.

I use the rudder and ailerons to sideslip, which decelerates my aircraft in a hurry, and then I straighten out at the last minute for a touchdown at about 180 kph, usually more; rarely less.

I find doing it this way gets me on the ground much faster, with only a small increase in the number of times I break the plane.

Plus it's great practice for emergency landings when you're damaged.

Blindman-
01-06-2010, 12:09 PM
The training missions that you are after are the "Two Minutes to Action" training missions. Click on my signature (picture at bottom) to get them from Mission4Today.

Good luck and welcome back.

Tambovsky
01-10-2010, 05:51 AM
OK thanks all on kind advices!

Now I have a question on difficulty settings; I use realistic setting with all labels and icons disabled, complex engine management, realistic gunnery, stalls and weather.

I have to figure out this engine thing, when I take off as a last Bf-109E4 in a flight I have lot of trouble catching up with my AI flight members. Prop pitch is set to 90% (shift+4), Power at 110% and engine starts overheating in a minute. I see that with Autopilot on my plane reaches 450kph w/o problem but as soon as I take control over autopilot plane slows down to 300-ish and engine starts rattling like there's no oil at all. Of course, keeping formation is no longer possible so I start looking for a field to crash land before stalling. I'm thinking it's gotta be something with radiator setting which I haven't figured out at all. So what do Open,2,4,6,8 and Closed settings do?

What's the "ata" gauge?

Same question is on guns, I keep pounding those damn Soviet I-16 with all I've got (cannon and machine guns), debris falls off as they take most of it but they keep flying like there's nothing wrong with it. After watching some real WW2 footage I've seen planes on fire after 2-3 sec of gun bursts into forward fuselage but when I find myself in same position my guns make no such effect. Should I disable realistic gunnery?

Zeus-cat
01-10-2010, 02:30 PM
Some people claim that the AI cheats and can outfly you. Other people claim that they can stay with the AI after takeoff with no problem. Personally, they take off and leave me behind all the time. My solution is to ignore them and let them climb fast. I gain speed and then use a gentle climb and let them just go out ahead of me. Eventually I catch up with them.

The 2,4,6,8 Open and closed are your radiator flaps. 2 stands for 20%, 4 for 40% etc. The more they are open the more cooling you get. You pay for cooling with drag. The cowl flaps also provide some protection for your engine. I open my cowl flaps immediately after takeoff and leave them open until I got near combat. I close them to protect my engine from enemy fire and only open them with enemy around if I really have to.

Planes have complex damage models. If you are putting hits on a plane in an area that is mostly empty space you will see debris, but not cause any real damage. You need to target important areas of the plane like: the pilot, fuel tanks, engine, wing roots, wingtips (knock a wingtip off a bomber and it will tumble out of the sky). I-16s are mostly empty space so you are probably just punching holes in fabric with your shots.

Tambovsky
01-17-2010, 05:12 AM
Thanks on replies guys,

as I said I returned to IL-2 after a long break, I was playing LOFC, DCS and Falcon 4 (OpenFalcon 4.5)and I used TM Cougar, Saitek rudders and TIR4 for those sims. However sniping with Cougar (stock) is bit a of a drag (it's very heavy due to it's springs) so yesterday I bought Saitek Aviator and managed to calibrate it in input is such way that my nose pointing is accurate and plane doesn't wobble like it did with Cougar. I also reduced last values from 100 to 96 so plane doesn't snap-stall when I deflect stick to it's gimbal limits. My pitch curve is now something like 40, 46, 52, 58, 66, 72, 80, 88, 96 (IIRC).

What are your general thoughts of Aviator, how many of you use it with Sturmy? IMHO it's very cheap (cca 30) but precise and so far I'm very happy with it. The only thing I had to do is disabling twist yaw 'cause I sometimes accidentaly activate rudder during pitching and rolling. I said I have Saitek rudders and it sure feels (and looks) better than twisting the stick.

So apart from being more precise Aviator also looks better with WW2 sims. :-)

Here's the question, how do I enable TIR4 in IL-2?

My copy of IL-2 1946 should arrive within a day or two, 'til it does I'm having fun with FB+AEP+PF http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

robtek1957
01-17-2010, 02:52 PM
In your config.ini is a line that says:
TrackIrUse=0 switch the 0 for an 1 and you are golden.

Tambovsky
01-17-2010, 04:34 PM
Thanks robtek!

Do I edit .ini files by renaming them to .txt and opening in Word/Note pad?

thefruitbat
01-17-2010, 04:44 PM
just open it in notepad, no need to change the extension.

Woke_Up_Dead
01-18-2010, 12:22 AM
The cowl flaps also provide some protection for your engine. I open my cowl flaps immediately after takeoff and leave them open until I got near combat. I close them to protect my engine from enemy fire and only open them with enemy around if I really have to.


I did not know this. I assume this is for radial engines only, as on liquid cooled engines the radiator is often under the belly or wings, away from the engine?

Tambovsky
01-24-2010, 03:36 PM
Now I have another question, I noticed that all piston driven engines sound the same in Il-2 so there's no difference with P-47 radial and Bf-109 in-line.

Is there a mod you recommend that makes engines sound more realistic?

Thanks again!

Tambovsky
02-14-2010, 01:06 PM
I watched some of the dogfight videos on YOutube and I noticed that most of the kills are very brief burst of guns (2 sec). Even hi deflection 2 sec bursts do enough damage to make it a day.

However, I'm playing a Barbarossa campaign flying 109F-1 and I was up against a wing of 4 LaGGs. I came from their six o'clock (perfect six) and at about 150m opened fire with all I've got (guns and cannon). Debris all around and this burst lasted for 5 secs. Imagine what, the AI guy didn't even trail any smoke. Next time this happens I'll record it with Fraps so you can see target was sitting perfectly in my reflector sight-dead on!

So I?m really convinced that Reallistic gunnery is not reallistic at all or this F-1 is a poor gun.

I keep my guns converged at 280m, canon at 500m? Dunno what's wrong with poor firepower I've got?

M_Gunz
02-14-2010, 01:28 PM
Convergence at 280m and 500m --- fire at 150m. Noooope, no problem there.
Fire from dead six. Nawwwww, no reason to need more hits than in from the side.
Dayum, it must be the game that has it all wrong!

Tambovsky
02-14-2010, 01:56 PM
Dunno, I should try guns on other planes 'cause it either F-1 having bad firepower or LaGG3 is made of rock, I just tried it again is quick mission, I even strafed it from wingtip to wingtip for 7 or 8 secs with both guns and cannon, and it just keeps loosing fabric. No smoke, no ripped parts of wing or fuselage...Gonna try the same with Spit Mk1 to see how her guns do!

thefruitbat
02-14-2010, 03:36 PM
there is no f1, i presume you mean f2.

and yes the f2 mg151 is only 15mm, and quite pants, try a f4 with the 20mm mg151 and you will notice a big difference.

as to your convergance, there miles to long, i have both cannon and mg's at 200m, and very rarely bother to fir at anyrange over 300m.

if your shooting from dead six, you will either need to hit the wing roots, or wingtips to kill the plane, its no good just shooting into the tail if you want a quick kill. much better is to shoot at the target from an angle, particuarly at the cockpit or engine, and yes it is easy when you know where to aim and can actually hit there, to destroy planes in very short bursts.

M_Gunz
02-14-2010, 04:49 PM
But you can really chew up his tailwheel from dead six!

Even with nose guns convergence specifies the range at which level-fired shots should cross the pipper.
Set for 500m the cannon will pass well over the pipper at 150m-300m so at least aim low!

And then there are the other shots to account for, climbing or diving and while closing on the target
or being outrun by the target.

Last of all, is your plane pointed to where it's going or at least flying parallel to the enemy's path?

There's many ways to have your aim off but in general the closer you are the less difference it makes.

If you intend to shoot only from close then set convergence close.

IMO it's far easier to get kills from deflection but the training to do it takes a lot longer.

Tully__
02-14-2010, 05:09 PM
Originally posted by Woke_Up_Dead:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The cowl flaps also provide some protection for your engine. I open my cowl flaps immediately after takeoff and leave them open until I got near combat. I close them to protect my engine from enemy fire and only open them with enemy around if I really have to.


I did not know this. I assume this is for radial engines only, as on liquid cooled engines the radiator is often under the belly or wings, away from the engine? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In the IL2, the cooler located under the fuselage has an armoured flap. It does provide some protection for the radiator when closed. For most liquid cooled engines the amount of radiator protection to be gained from the thin cooling flaps is minimal and I don't know if it's actually modelled in the game, but for the IL2 it allegedly is modelled.

Note that in real liquid cooled aircraft, the cooling system is one of the most vulnerable parts if it can be hit. Any protection at all is worth having.


Originally posted by Tambovsky:
I watched some of the dogfight videos on YOutube and I noticed that most of the kills are very brief burst of guns (2 sec). Even hi deflection 2 sec bursts do enough damage to make it a day.

However, I'm playing a Barbarossa campaign flying 109F-1 and I was up against a wing of 4 LaGGs. I came from their six o'clock (perfect six) and at about 150m opened fire with all I've got (guns and cannon). Debris all around and this burst lasted for 5 secs. Imagine what, the AI guy didn't even trail any smoke. Next time this happens I'll record it with Fraps so you can see target was sitting perfectly in my reflector sight-dead on!

So I?m really convinced that Reallistic gunnery is not reallistic at all or this F-1 is a poor gun.

I keep my guns converged at 280m, canon at 500m? Dunno what's wrong with poor firepower I've got?

How convergence affects your aim in the game

http://users.tpg.com.au/davken27/convergence.jpg

Dead six is not the best place to shoot. For a start, any armour protection in the aircraft is most effective against people shooting from directly behind. Secondly, when striking a glancing blow against the aircraft skin, bullets are more likely to be deflected rather than penetrate.

The clips you see on youtube are generally selected for their dramatic effect rather than their representation of a typical encounter. While in some cases dramatic results can be achieved with only a very short burst of gunfire, typically the average pilot required much longer shooting at the target to achieve even any damage, much less a spectacular kill. For every one clip on youtube showing a kill with only a couple of seconds of fire, there are many many more in the archives showing a pilot using most of his ammo load for hardly any visible result.

With practice you can achieve spectacular results, but as has already been mentioned you need to understand where the vulnerable points are on your target and aim well enough to hit those specific points.