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CornbreadPattie
07-26-2006, 12:41 AM
Fighting a virtual war in this crate is no easy task! It's a beautiful high altitude interceptor. It was one of the planes which persuaded Germany to invade Russia sooner rather then later. They saw it and were surprised at the speed which the Soviet Union was developing good aircraft.

Here's some qualities of the MiG-3:

Fast @ high altitudes.
Fast Climber.
Slugish manuverability at all altitudes.
Small firepower.

But it is what it is... a tool of war and the pilot makes the difference.

Please use this thread to post online and offline tracks of successes with the MiG-3. Also, give your love and advice on flying/fighting in the MiG-3 variants!

-oscar

CornbreadPattie
07-26-2006, 12:41 AM
Fighting a virtual war in this crate is no easy task! It's a beautiful high altitude interceptor. It was one of the planes which persuaded Germany to invade Russia sooner rather then later. They saw it and were surprised at the speed which the Soviet Union was developing good aircraft.

Here's some qualities of the MiG-3:

Fast @ high altitudes.
Fast Climber.
Slugish manuverability at all altitudes.
Small firepower.

But it is what it is... a tool of war and the pilot makes the difference.

Please use this thread to post online and offline tracks of successes with the MiG-3. Also, give your love and advice on flying/fighting in the MiG-3 variants!

-oscar

BSS_Goat
07-26-2006, 06:02 AM
I see this ones not going so well.

JG53Frankyboy
07-26-2006, 06:14 AM
i always liked its shape !


3ud vs 109F2 , 109E7 and B-239 is always an interesting fight.

the MiG-3 AM-38 is till 3000m a beast http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

what brings me sometimes in heavy trouble is when i forgett how low the max dive speed is in these MiGs http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif less than 700km/h IAS. i lost more than once parts http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

about the firepower, well, against the german fighters its ok - and sure there are the 2xUB and 2xSchVak variants http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

F6_Ace
07-26-2006, 06:17 AM
Mig3:
Cruise speed 650kmh
Vmax 651kmh

I prefer to be in a Mig3 than a 109F if I can help it.

JG53Frankyboy
07-26-2006, 06:20 AM
yes, 650, but at an altitude you fly very seldom - talking about online http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

and if you want fly B6Z from high alt, well, what i said about its max divespeed limit http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

also use elevator trimm , at higher speed its elevator becomes very heavy.

joeap
07-26-2006, 06:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JG53Frankyboy:
yes, 650, but at an altitude you fly very seldom - talking about online http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

and if you want fly B6Z from high alt, well, what i said about its max divespeed limit http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

also use elevator trimm , at higher speed its elevator becomes very heavy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So hardly an uber plane like some of its later VVS bretheren then. It is a finicky plane IMO, I tried one of the new stock VVS campaigns that came with 4.05 the fighter one. You start early 42 in a Mig-3...and at very low altitudes as was historically the case, no wonder they could not shine.

R988z
07-26-2006, 06:30 AM
The problem is that it's just not that great, you can't push it too fast or the wings fall off, can't turn that hard or it stalls out and it's armament is inadequate on most versions. I usually take the version that can fit the 12.7mm guns on the wings as you really need the extra firepower sometimes, forget about taking bombers on unless you are an absolute crack shot, the engine is fairly vunerable to enemy fire as well.

I will admit it's actually not that bad in limited early war scenarios though, you can generally take on a 109E, but a 109F can be tricky as it's a nimbler aircraft, lucky it's armament isn't that strong either. I've managed to get a reasonable amount of kills in the aircraft in 1941 scenarios, just need to stay away from those pesky He111s and go after the 109s.

You're other main options in these scenarios are usually a Yak 1b or a Lagg 3 and it's probably the nicer aircraft to fly out of that lot, I find the Yak a bit snatchy and recalcitrent in flight, I find that I need to really grab it by the scruff of the neck and haul it round the sky. The Lagg3 isn't too bad as long as you have enough height/energy, but never feels as light as the MiG and after a few turns you had better have killed that enemy fighter or you will end up low, slow and dead. The Mig is lighter and once offthe ground seems to gather speed and height quickly, it wants to fly thanks to the long wings ands it just requires a delicate touch on the controls, at lower speeds like take off and landing it's a bit tricky sometimes, but otherwise quite nice to fly. You can't throw it around hard like the other Soviet fighters but you do have the power and climb rate to have a better chance of disengaging if you find your running out of options or ammo, something that's a little more difficult in most other Soviet choices of the period.

In light of that I would say that it is generally a better aircraft in full real historical or similar type servers, where it's natural strengths can be exploited more readily than the no holds barred brawling of some less real servers.

Gadje
07-26-2006, 08:04 AM
In early Eastern front maps I usually choose it when available.

About the time the Lagg got fixed the Migs seemed to get better, more stable and less prone to drop a wing in a turn.

I think the key is to fly it aggressively against early 109's up to the G2. Its fast, turns well and can climb, so I usually mix it up with them.
A lot of Mig pilots I see online fly it quite defensively from what I've seen while flying blue. Main tactic used is the fast vertical loop but I am happy to see this for one hard deflection shot from a 20mm 109 cannon and its usually over. The Migs DM is more akin to a Zero's than an La-5's so giving a shooting opportunity is a mistake.

However if a Mig breaks into me and begins a climbing roll/turn fight I know I'm in for a hard time. So thats what I do flying the Mig if I've got the energy or height.

The biggest problem with this is if you get the angle on him the ammo is pretty weak and it can take enough time to down him that a mate comes to help, torching you pronto. Where is that wingman?

The ammo and dive problem prevents me using it in a proper BnZ role. The Mig 3U is ok though as it dives a bit faster than the earlier Migs and has 2 shVak.

Some matchups I've enjoyed-(on both sideshttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif)

Mig 3 1940 - Bf109 E's
Mig 3 ud/ub - Bf109-F2
Mig 3 2xshVak - Bf109-F4
Mig 3 AM38/ Mig 3U - Bf109-G2/ Fw190-A4

JG53Frankyboy
07-26-2006, 08:10 AM
i can rememebr a time when the MiG3 in game was a zippo http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif very easy to flame ..............
this time is gone, unfortunatly for the LW pilots http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

i like also
MiG-3 (the early one without slats) vs IAR 80 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Ernst_Rohr
07-26-2006, 08:26 AM
The Mig-3 is kind of an odd duck for the VVS, a fast high altitude interceptor vs. the usual T&B low to medium planes.

I HATE the Mig in offline campaigns. Getting bounced on the runway in some of he early missions is just ugly. Low and slow = dead Mig. Since a lot of missions early on are scrambles, I quickly started to get disenchanted with the Mig's limitations.

Online is a different proposition. Early war missions can be a lot of fun in the Mig, as most blue flyers dont expect the speed that the Mig can turn out. It makes a decent slashing fighter, not really a true B&Z since it cant dive without shedding parts. If you keep up speed, turn gently, and rely on your climb, the Mig can be very effective, it just has a very limited repertoire compared to a lot of other birds.

Its fast, climbs well, but cant dive. Turning in the Mig is also problematic, it bleeds speed incredibly fast, and it generally lacks the firepower to kill things quickly.

It does climb well, and with a sufficent amount of speed, it can be a very effective fighter. Using shallow dives running into fast slashing attacks, it can give 109E's fits early on. The F model 109 is a much tougher fight, and by the time the Mig starts getting better, the VVS has better birds up and flying.

The Mig was really designed to counter high altitude bomber attacks that never really materialized, so it kind of lost out by not being able to fight the way it was designed.

RCAF_Irish_403
07-26-2006, 08:44 AM
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a66/jds1978/grab0000.jpg

carguy_
07-26-2006, 08:57 AM
4.04m turned migs into T&Bers.All Migs can now T&B with any early 109,especailly using flaps.The only problem is that early models are underpowered.Mig3 2xShvak and AM38 are on par with the 109F although the F2 has a bit more power hence has the upper hand in energy fighting.When it comes down to dirty T&B below 3500m,the Mig poses a great threat.

For 4 years it has been an aircraft sentenced to falilure when facing 109F.Since 4.04m VVS have been very agressive flying it.Above 5000m Mig3 is faster than the 109F and better in T&B.

Overall a specialist escort aircraft which outclasses Yak1/7/7B and I16/I153.Great climbing performance and very good top speed dimishes the advantages LW in this eastern front period(`41-42) posseses.

Its disadvantages are bad dive speed,underpowered engines in early models and quite weak DM which is about the weakest of all VVS fighters in `41 period.

It is absolutely no match for the Messerchmitt109G2 although we all know that bird does not belon in `42 scenarios.

TgD Thunderbolt56
07-26-2006, 09:10 AM
It's nice to be able to neutralize one of the most common tactics used by Blue pilots in early-war scenarios...climb away then B&Z. The MiG3 is just too good a performer up high to ignore.

I really WANT to like it more, but there is just something about it that makes me want to slap it.


TB

JG53Frankyboy
07-26-2006, 09:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by carguy_:
..........The only problem is that early models are underpowered.Mig3 2xShvak and AM38 are on par with the 109F although the F2 has a bit more power hence has the upper hand in energy fighting................. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

my impression was always that the 2xUB and 2x SchVak armed MiGs have the same performance than the MiG-3ud - that they are just armament modifications.........

the AM38 is for sure another category , with its low level performance engine.

F19_Olli72
07-26-2006, 10:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JG53Frankyboy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by carguy_:
..........The only problem is that early models are underpowered.Mig3 2xShvak and AM38 are on par with the 109F although the F2 has a bit more power hence has the upper hand in energy fighting................. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

my impression was always that the 2xUB and 2x SchVak armed MiGs have the same performance than the MiG-3ud - that they are just armament modifications.........

the AM38 is for sure another category , with its low level performance engine. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope, at least not according to Hardballs a/c viewer. The ShVak Mig (and UB) has worst turnrate of all Migs. Also slightly faster on the deck but slower than the UD up high.

And about turning abilities of Migs. Its all dependant of situation of course. But as F19_Ob and I usually do we tested various Migs vs 109s (taking turns flying both aircrafts). Note that we tested in similar energy state (speed of both planes). Our findings: in the better turning Migs vs 109E you might get away with it if you survive the first two full turns that is. By then if the 109 has been using combat flaps you can climb away in the Mig. This is highly unlikely though as slightest damage to the Mig will often end the fight rather quickly.

However against 109F generally the Mig doesnt stand any chance at all in a pure turnfight as the F can easily draw deflection and hold it on the Mig. Both Ob and I were able to do it quite easy several times, despite that the one that flew the Mig turned the hardest he could. Looping as well worked very poorly with Mig vs 109.

JG53Frankyboy
07-26-2006, 10:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by F19_Olli72:
..........Nope, at least not according to Hardballs a/c viewer. The ShVak Mig (and UB) has worst turnrate of all Migs. Also slightly faster on the deck but slower than the UD up high.

................. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

unfortunatly the are not in il2compare, but i would guess that the armament modifications are heavier than the standart MiG-3ud...........


in general, the MiG3 behaves not as gentle as a Bf109E&F . they are a little bit nose heavy and you can feel that in slow flown manouvers.

F19_Ob
07-26-2006, 10:47 AM
As I see it, the biggest disadvantage for the mig as a turnfighter against any 109 is that the mig can't declerate aswell as the 109 from high speed, or yank the stick back as hard in lower speeds.
This gives the 109 an advantage of being able to pull inside the mig in an early stage of the fight.

A 109 with slightly lower energy may risk getting shot down if he tries to continue to turn against the mig3.
However the 109 also is better at evasives in all respects and the mig will have a hard time hitting the 109 even if he is behind.
The 109s can slow down to landingspeed and then go up in a steep climb, whereas the mig3 will more easily flip, especially if trying to alter direction, as in a scissor.


I Personally prefer the ShVak-mig since the others have not enough armament to be able to BnZ. It atleast turns well enough so an experienced pilot may use it to effect in furballs.
I think the 2 cannons equals the 109F's mg151 cannon.

----------------------

Many russian pilot liked the mig3 and thought it could turn ok for having a highaltitude engine.
They dissliked that the engine could quit on them at any given moment with no warning, already after a couple of testflights.
Pokryshkin said that it needed an experienced pilot to do well and that he liked it.

TheGozr
07-26-2006, 11:21 AM
One of the best looking Prop plane ever created, if the plane would of still get work on with the proper engine it would of have been probably one of the greatest.
Love the .3U

To bad stalin saw this differently.

anarchy52
07-26-2006, 11:46 AM
In-game MiG-3
Fast, pretty manuverable except at very low speed. Superior to 109E in all aspects, inferior to F4 in most aspects (but not drastically), except up high (6.5k+) where they do not have a decent opponent.
Rockets don't hurt the performance too much and single hit is anough to bring down any bomber.
DM is quite reasonable for a VVS aircraft - means it can be damaged with a few hits and suffer the performance loss, although I find it that wing hits don't bring as much manuverability penalty as they do in german planes.
Downside is it's weak arnament. They turn far too well and are quite tame.

Real Mig-3
Heavy, high wingloading (similar to FW-190, with lower power to weight ratio) and forward CoG resulted in nasty handling and dangerous dynamic stall. Butchered by 109E and F early on they were phased out pretty quickly due to high losses in favor of much better Yak-1 and lend-lease aircraft.

One of the best looking early war aircraft, however our in-game MiG has little to do with the real thing in terms of FM.

F19_Olli72
07-26-2006, 12:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by anarchy52:
They turn far too well.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So, which variants are off and by how much? I assume making such comment that you have tested it on Crimea and compared with real numbers?

TheGozr
07-26-2006, 12:25 PM
In some years from now in the next generations of Simulator with much greater FM, you will look at il2 like looking at nintindo sim controled with hats switches.
ALL FM are Poor.. period ( still better than any other at the moment )

joeap
07-26-2006, 12:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TheGozr:
In some years from now in the next generations of Simulator with much greater FM, you will look at il2 like looking at nintindo sim controled with hats switches.
ALL FM are Poor.. period ( still better than any other at the moment ) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You know that statement makes no sense, it is self-contradiction.

WWMaxGunz
07-26-2006, 01:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TheGozr:
ALL FM are Poor.. period ( still better than any other at the moment ) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think I get you. Closeness to full real flight is not just on speed, climb, turn.
Closeness to real flight in all handling is really maybe 60 to 70 percent? No way 90+!
As what Oryx said about the MS 1%'ers... within 1% of what they know, not everything.

After years of flying the sims that came before, the handling of this one is best to me.
And it keeps overall improving even when some little part will bother me here or there.
More than half the time I find out that my feeling/understanding was not right anyway.

Rammjaeger
07-26-2006, 02:50 PM
There is one thing I never understood about the Mig-3. It was designed to be a high-altitude bomber interceptor, but it never had the necessary heavy armament. Kind of puzzling.

Aardvark184
07-26-2006, 08:12 PM
Big fan here of the MiG-3U. I don't care if it's considered an "uber" or newbie plane. I don't care that it only holds what seems like 10 rounds of ammo. No one allows it online, but since I can't fly online (really crappy slow dial-up), who cares? My most memorable flight was a midnight-bad weather-chasing bombers I couldn't hardly find in my 3U. I dig the other MiG's (especially if you pick a country other than Soviet, and the wooden wings show), but the 3U's my baby.

Tim

TheGozr
07-26-2006, 10:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Aardvark184 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The 3U is far to be Uber.. To me is a piece of art.
I have lots of maps with Migs in NN server.

TX-Gunslinger
07-26-2006, 10:48 PM
I've spent some quality time in the Mig-3U lately.

Above 7K, at co-altitude or higher the Mig-3U owns an equally flown and fought G2. G2 can't gain angles, can't run away. Just never, ever dive away from the G2.

At 9K you can dive down to 6.5Km or so and have enough energy to return easily to your start alititude.

The handling traits that make it tough down low, (slow control response - intitial turn rate poor) create what I think is the most stable aircraft up high in the game. Yes the P-47's and Ta's are good at 9k, but I they are less stable, feel less secure at the altitudes which you are starting to put on a lot of elevator trim to keep level flight (9-10-11K).

The engine does not heat up very fast, compared to 109's and 190's. If you wait for the engine to cool off a bit after climbing - if you don't kill the 109, you can always outrun him, extend, cool off and re-engage.

When using Il2-Compare to examine these two aircraft, remember to consider the G2's speed performance at altitude after overheat.

S~

I love this aircraft, just not down low http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

JG53Frankyboy
07-27-2006, 03:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Aardvark184:
Big fan here of the MiG-3U. I don't care if it's considered an "uber" or newbie plane. I don't care that it only holds what seems like 10 rounds of ammo. No one allows it online, ........................ </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

well, i guess its seldom to find online because it was far from a in series produced plane - in 1943 btw !!

http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/mig3/I-230.html

cawimmer430
07-27-2006, 04:41 AM
Not a fan of the Mig-3. It's a good-looking plane, but I find it turns pretty badly.

Once, I decided to do the Mig-3 pilot career. In my first mission, my base was attacked by two BF-109's and it took me almost 10 minutes to shoot down one of them. I had the faster plane, but this guy was outturning me left and right. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

To make matters worse, after I downed him. My wingman dives after the burning BF-109 and proceeds to hammer it with bullets. He got the credits for the kill! What the f***!? I've noticed AI does this stuff - often. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

anarchy52
07-27-2006, 05:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by cawimmer430:
Not a fan of the Mig-3. It's a good-looking plane, but I find it turns pretty badly.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
It turns badly for a VVS plane, but it outturns all german planes except 109F and 109G2.

Real MiG's engine lost power signifficantly above 5000m, manuverability at high alt was as poor as low alt (read the account on the 3 MiGs lost while trying to intercept Ju-86, they stalled at high alt and could not recover). There were modifications to improve high alt performance, but MiG-3 was phased out and there was no need for high alt interceptor anyway...

It's demanding handling characteristics were emphasized by the inexperience of soviet pilots which were not trained to fly modern high performance aircraft, especially not one with such high wingloading and such *tricky* handling.

Kuna_
07-27-2006, 06:55 AM
In my opinion the best Soviet fighter in early years of war. It is really fast and it is comparable to Bf-109 in many areas although Messerschmitt is slightly better fighter. Nevertheless MiG fighter can be worthy opponent to every German aircraft of the time.

My favourite is MiG-3UD.

Also worth mentioning is good canopy visibility.

Bad thing about MiG is that although designated for interceptor role it isn't really a good interceptor. At all.
It has IL-2 engine and that means it is very vulnerable. I have had dead engine many many times after few passes on bombers after receiving only few bullets IL-2I and LaGG-3 are much better for anti bomber tasks in game IMHO.

As far as armament goes put 2x12,7 gondollas or RS-82 on it and it can destroy a bomber in one pass almost every time but engine vulnerability often spoils the fun.

Anyway if I have to choose the best early war Soviet aircraft MiG-3 easily wins.