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Awagnerjcu08
04-12-2007, 12:07 PM
Hello everyone! (My first post)

I am still in the learning process after having been away from flight simulators for awhile (EAW is my last major experience).

I got an X45, and am learning about co-ordinated turns. The problem is, however, that when I watch the ball in a P51 or P47, I can't seem to get the ball UNcentered! When I bank, or do an extended barrel roll, the ball moves ever so slightly opposite of the bank. When i am turning, even in a climb or dive, the ball stays centered. Only in extreme cases, such as a stall or spin does the ball ever seem to move.

I am reading the article on SimHQ http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_001b.html
about using the rudder. In the illustrations they show what a ball looks like during a slide or a skip. I cannot seem to reproduce either situation - what is going on?

Thanks in advance for your help

PS: I should have noted, of course, that my ball stays almost centered through turns and banks without any rudder input.

Awagnerjcu08
04-12-2007, 12:07 PM
Hello everyone! (My first post)

I am still in the learning process after having been away from flight simulators for awhile (EAW is my last major experience).

I got an X45, and am learning about co-ordinated turns. The problem is, however, that when I watch the ball in a P51 or P47, I can't seem to get the ball UNcentered! When I bank, or do an extended barrel roll, the ball moves ever so slightly opposite of the bank. When i am turning, even in a climb or dive, the ball stays centered. Only in extreme cases, such as a stall or spin does the ball ever seem to move.

I am reading the article on SimHQ http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_001b.html
about using the rudder. In the illustrations they show what a ball looks like during a slide or a skip. I cannot seem to reproduce either situation - what is going on?

Thanks in advance for your help

PS: I should have noted, of course, that my ball stays almost centered through turns and banks without any rudder input.

Diablo310th
04-12-2007, 12:22 PM
hmmm that's strange indeed. I can get it uncentered in my Jug easily when I kick rudder or turn.

FoolTrottel
04-12-2007, 12:59 PM
How's the difficulty switch 'Torque & Gyro' set?

If it's Off, switch it on...

Oh, and Welcome here! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Awagnerjcu08
04-12-2007, 01:01 PM
Diablo,

Yes, I can uncenter the ball intentionally by hitting the rudder hard, but there doesn't seem to be any indication of a need for correction when flying (which is not the case in the guides I have been reading.

What kind of a visual are you speaking of though? A minuscule movement of the ball, or a significant one as shown in the SimHQ guide?

Awagnerjcu08
04-12-2007, 01:05 PM
FoolTrottel,

That is one of the first things I checked, but since you were kind enough to mentioned it, I checked again - its on. I am running at full FM in PF+FB+AEP on the latest patch.

Somehow I think the issue may be in my flying rather than a bug. Does anyone have a maneuver that should guarantee to throw me into a slip or slide?

Thank you for the welcome!

horseback
04-12-2007, 01:13 PM
Try flying an Airacobra. The P-39N I've been flying in the 'Cobras Over the Donbas' campaign has a blatantly dishonest instrument panel, and the Needle and Ball are the biggest liars on the panel.

I've taken to practice sessions in the QMB flying the 'Cobra in Wonder Woman view, using the vector indicator to help me develop a 'feel' for properly trimming and handling this twitchy ride.

cheers

horseback

cheers

horseback

FoolTrottel
04-12-2007, 01:25 PM
Other ideas/questions:

What do you use to control the rudder, and how are it's sensitivity settings?

In external view, do you get full rudder deflection?

Just tried a P51, some remarks, for you to compare:
* Rudder trimmed for level flight, starting a gentle banked turn, w/o rudder use, the ball moves a bit downwards (gravity?). Once I turn with more G's, the ball stays centered. G-forces putting it there?

* In level flight, when I throttle down, the ball moves to the left, and to the right when throttling up...

Can't think of anything else!
Good Luck!

p-11.cAce
04-12-2007, 01:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Does anyone have a maneuver that should guarantee to throw me into a slip or slide? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Jump into the qmb in whatever plane you like -the p-39 is a spinner so might as well use it. From level flight at 3000M reduce power to idle, and gently pull to maintain the nose above the horizon. When the speed decays to the point that you start getting vortices off the wing tips pull full aft stick and kick full rudder one way or the other. The ball will look pretty interesting http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Ok so now that you are spinning down push in full fwd stick and full rudder opposite the spin and hold them there. If the spin is flattening out (which tends to happen in the -39) modulate the throttle from full to half to "rock" the nose down. Be patient (thats why we started at 3000M) it may take a few revolutions for the nose to fall out and until it does you won't have enough airflow over the rudder and stab to get the rotation stopped. Once the nose breaks and the rotation stops center your controls, wait for some airspeed to build, and gently pull out - yank it into a secondary stall and you'll just go spinning away again. Rinse and repeat http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Awagnerjcu08
04-12-2007, 01:28 PM
I tried the P-39 and saw some increased movement, but mostly only when I yanked hard enough for a near-stall. Maybe some screenshots would help - I'll get on it.

Awagnerjcu08
04-12-2007, 01:31 PM
P-11.cAce,

Yes, during spins the ball moves. My uncertainty revolves around how little ball moves during turns and banks, and how difficult it is for me to know if my turn is "co-ordinated" or not because the ball is usually already centered.

K_Freddie
04-12-2007, 01:58 PM
Use it as a vague indicator, my lot jumps around like a yoyo, and when turning hard in a FW the ball centres '1 ball size' to the left of centre. anything else puts the plane into a slide then a stall.

BM357_Sniper
04-12-2007, 02:52 PM
All you have to do is kick full left or right rudder in flight and see if the ball moves.

I really wonder how accurate the instruments are on any of the panels. I feel like the attitude indicate, altimeter and VSI are good, but anything outside of that doesn't seem to be accurate. Having said that, in leval flight the inclinometer works well and may or may not be correct in turns. The turn coordinator is just there for show as it does not indicate a standard rate turn.

slipBall
04-12-2007, 03:13 PM
Check out FoolTrottle's advice http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif...also try a bf-109, the ball dislike's a center position http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Diablo310th
04-12-2007, 03:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Awagnerjcu08:
Diablo,

Yes, I can uncenter the ball intentionally by hitting the rudder hard, but there doesn't seem to be any indication of a need for correction when flying (which is not the case in the guides I have been reading.

What kind of a visual are you speaking of though? A minuscule movement of the ball, or a significant one as shown in the SimHQ guide? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mine will move quite alot in a hard turn. Also trimming the rudder is a must in the Jug. Strange urs does not move much.

Waldo.Pepper
04-12-2007, 03:31 PM
I was just reading the other day about the instruments in Mosquito's of the time. The artificial horizon specifically. A new development called a Non-Topple Artificial Horizon.

"The ordinary artificial horizon on the blind flying panel was liable to "topple" during any extreme manoeuvre, so that by the time that the pilot had righted the aircraft the instrument would no longer be giving an accurate reading. At night, or in cloud, this could be uncomfortable, to say the least!

So our task for this trial was to take No. 470 up to a safe altitude, and throw it about all over the sky to see if we could topple the intriguing 'Non-Topple Artificial Horizon' on our instrument panel. Almost for the last time we can refer to my flying log-books to see what happened: 'After an hour's gyrations the N.T.A.H. still remained untoppled - not so our stomachs!'
The trial was obviously successful!"

This new instrument was being tested in 1945. I think we would all be well served if we remember that the instruments that are displayed in game are perhaps intended to simulate imperfect (out term would be lag/delayed etc) instruments of the time. Even today instruments are not perfect. Nothing is.

The quote is from Pursuit Through Darkened Skies page 312.

Awagnerjcu08
04-12-2007, 03:31 PM
Thank you for all of your replies. I think I was just expecting a more pronounced movement of the ball to help me line up the perfectly co-ordinated turn.

And yes, the ball can move if I throw the rudder around, or spin - I was just surprised by its response to a bank or turn.

Again, thank you everyone!