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DROBNJAK1960
10-23-2009, 03:15 AM
I bought and installed IL2 this week. The only two other simms I know well are Lock-On and Jane's WWII Fighters.

IL2 in comparison with WWII Fighters, is less eye candy, particularly bad is that all the cockpits are oddly elongated in the vertical plane. WWII fighters had cockpits done right. But hey, what a heck, who cares about odd cockpits, when overall realism is 110% unbelievable. Flight model is brilliant, really hard to fly.

I particularly like the sounds of the plane being hit and how it shudders a little when it is hit.

In comparison with Lock-On, well its a hard call, but Lock-On is far more complex and I would say jets are just more fun than props.

Anyway, enough impressions, I have a question to ask. My problem is that rudder is mega-giga sensitive. I use Thrustmaster Cougar and I reduced Antennae Knob's (my rudder) sensitivity to next to nothing. And still, the slightest move of the, like 1/2mm rotation of the knob, causes any plane I flew to yaw in a jerky fashion. Instead of moving, say, left gradually, it jerks to the left, than again to the right, and so on few times, till it settles. It is kind of wavy, not gradual. By the time plane settles down, I've overshot the bomber.

Is there a better way to control the rudder?

BillSwagger
10-23-2009, 03:24 AM
Welcome to Il2, and i would like to mention that i had a hard time getting this sim to do what i wanted it to after i first bought it.
Thankfully, there are a lot of people here who are willing to help.

You need to get familiar with your config.ini file, and see what resolution you are using.

as for rudder and other control sensitivity, your going to need a program called Il2 Joy which will let you properly adjust the sensitivities.
Thats a start, anyway.


Bill

Xiolablu3
10-23-2009, 03:38 AM
Jets more fun??

Hehe, absolutely no way, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

You cant just point a prop plane up in the sky and turn as hard as possible on the stick like you can in jets.

DKoor
10-23-2009, 03:47 AM
Originally posted by DROBNJAK1960:
Anyway, enough impressions, I have a question to ask. My problem is that rudder is mega-giga sensitive. I use Thrustmaster Cougar and I reduced Antennae Knob's (my rudder) sensitivity to next to nothing. And still, the slightest move of the, like 1/2mm rotation of the knob, causes any plane I flew to yaw in a jerky fashion. Instead of moving, say, left gradually, it jerks to the left, than again to the right, and so on few times, till it settles. It is kind of wavy, not gradual. By the time plane settles down, I've overshot the bomber.

Is there a better way to control the rudder? Simple - no. Apart from what you've already done, desensitivized the control.

Some time ago there was this patch where it was close to impossible to shoot anything with some fighters, they were just yawing (we use term wobble, wobbling) badly http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif .

It was somewhat corrected but is still present on some types much more than others.
F4U Corsair is notorious for wobbling...

What I do to counter the problem is to give rudder some input but do not let go, another words move rudder all the way to neutral position slowly or airplane nose will be all over the place if you nail it hard.

Once you get a grip on it it will be more or less smooth, but it is hard in the beggining.

Feel free to download some of my tracks in signature link, you will see how my aircraft wobbles from time to time because sometimes you just need speedy corrections even at expense of not being precise.

Unknown-Pilot
10-23-2009, 08:34 AM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
You cant just point a prop plane up in the sky and turn as hard as possible on the stick like you can in jets.

Um... you can if you use one of the ( :::ahem::: so "optimistic") commie crates. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Unknown-Pilot
10-23-2009, 08:37 AM
DROB, you need rudder pedals.

Either analog ones that plug into the Cougar, which you can likely find on Ebay, or MAKE yourself as it's nothing more than an old analog J/S pot on a rigging to simulate rudder pedals.

Or a set of USB pedals, which you can still find new. They won't be integrated into the Cougar, and so you can't use Foxy to program that axis, however, IL2 will still see it as a separate control and allow you to use it in conjunction with your Cougar, so just assign it to rudder axis and you're good to go.

If you are really into simming, and made the investment of a Cougar, trust me, you REALLY want to finish it off with rudder pedals (of some kind).

thefruitbat
10-23-2009, 09:08 AM
Originally posted by DROBNJAK1960:

IL2 in comparison with WWII Fighters, is less eye candy, particularly bad is that all the cockpits are oddly elongated in the vertical plane. WWII fighters had cockpits done right. But hey, what a heck, who cares about odd cockpits, when overall realism is 110% unbelievable. Flight model is brilliant, really hard to fly.

Is there a better way to control the rudder?

If your cockpits are elongated in the vertical plane, then you've managed to do something funky in il2setup, cause mine aren't, what resolution are you using?

as to the last point, rudder pedals.

oh and less eye candy than janes WWII fighters,

Really?

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y290/thefruitbat1/grab0011-3-1.jpg

fruitbat

DROBNJAK1960
10-23-2009, 09:32 AM
Fellows,

Thanks a lot for a good advice, particularly about how to tame the yaw wobbling.

In principle, one just needs to nudge a rudder ever so slightly and return it straight back into the neutral. And few times so in a succession, if more correction is needed.

Treetop64
10-23-2009, 10:37 AM
I've tried LockOn so many times, and though it is a stellar sim, and looks fantastic, it bored the snot out of me.

M_Gunz
10-23-2009, 10:54 AM
Originally posted by DROBNJAK1960:
In principle, one just needs to nudge a rudder ever so slightly and return it straight back into the neutral. And few times so in a succession, if more correction is needed.

In principle one needs to trim the rudder with props unless the plane has no rudder trim in which case one needs to
hold the rudder when one flies at speed and power setting that the ground-set trim tab is not set for. Bf109 is one
such plane that has no pilot settable rudder trim.

Props have effects that jets do not like prop wash, prop-factor (p-factor) and prop gyroscopic precession. High power
props have loads more of this than your average Piper Cub. The slower you go the more that propwash will affect your
flight, good rudder control becomes essential. In the Controls section from Hardware settings you have access to the
sensitivity sliders. You choose an axis and set the sliders, this will give you further control of your rudder though
flying a knob is going to occupy the hand not already on the stick -- a twisty stick would be better and those are
minimal IMO. The knob should be good for trim though, elevator trim being the higher-use priority.

Take care near stall not to use aileron to keep your wings level but rather rudder away from the dropping wing.

As to the graphics, that's going to take some back and forth to find out what's the cause and get right. You can
check your config.ini for a start, the top few lines allow you to set different resolutions:

[il2]
title=Il2-Sturmovik Forgotten Battles
hotkeys=HotKey game

[window]
width=1152
height=864

roybaty
10-23-2009, 10:55 AM
Welcome to IL2.

You might consider rudder pedals, they're much more important in WWI-WWII era aircraft. I use the rotaries on my COUGAR for prop pitch, and mixture.

I have LOMAC/BLACKSHARK myself, and think they're great, but I always find myself coming back to IL2 (and now ROF, and hopefully SoW).




Originally posted by DROBNJAK1960:
I bought and installed IL2 this week. The only two other simms I know well are Lock-On and Jane's WWII Fighters.

IL2 in comparison with WWII Fighters, is less eye candy, particularly bad is that all the cockpits are oddly elongated in the vertical plane. WWII fighters had cockpits done right. But hey, what a heck, who cares about odd cockpits, when overall realism is 110% unbelievable. Flight model is brilliant, really hard to fly.

I particularly like the sounds of the plane being hit and how it shudders a little when it is hit.

In comparison with Lock-On, well its a hard call, but Lock-On is far more complex and I would say jets are just more fun than props.

Anyway, enough impressions, I have a question to ask. My problem is that rudder is mega-giga sensitive. I use Thrustmaster Cougar and I reduced Antennae Knob's (my rudder) sensitivity to next to nothing. And still, the slightest move of the, like 1/2mm rotation of the knob, causes any plane I flew to yaw in a jerky fashion. Instead of moving, say, left gradually, it jerks to the left, than again to the right, and so on few times, till it settles. It is kind of wavy, not gradual. By the time plane settles down, I've overshot the bomber.

Is there a better way to control the rudder?

Urufu_Shinjiro
10-23-2009, 11:00 AM
Try getting a program called il2joycontrol or a similar program Il2sticks. These will allow you to adjust the ingame input curves for all axis, try this and see if you can further reduce the twitchyness of the rudder trim, I have no issues with smooth trimming so you should be able to get it that way too.

DROBNJAK1960
10-23-2009, 12:27 PM
...
In principle one needs to trim the rudder with props unless the plane has no rudder trim in which case one needs to
hold the rudder when one flies at speed and power setting that the ground-set trim tab is not set for. Bf109 is one
such plane that has no pilot settable rudder trim.



Props have effects that jets do not like prop wash, prop-factor (p-factor) and prop gyroscopic precession. High power
props have loads more of this than your average Piper Cub. The slower you go the more that propwash will affect your
flight, good rudder control becomes essential. In the Controls section from Hardware settings you have access to the
sensitivity sliders. You choose an axis and set the sliders, this will give you further control of your rudder though
flying a knob is going to occupy the hand not already on the stick -- a twisty stick would be better and those are
minimal IMO. The knob should be good for trim though,
elevator trim being the higher-use priority.


Yeah, this seems to be the case. I choose to fly the old Spit, and as soon I get into the cockpit I first set the trim, and then I am fine. Any further very fine yaw settings must be done with rudder trim, rather than with full rudder.

I tried few fighter planes, just attacking an Me-110 from the back. As somebody already noticed, on this forum, Mustang P-51 is quite a girly plane. Few bullets and engine is out. The old Spit and Lighting P-38 can take some beating before they give up.

Another thing, unlike in WWII Fighters, bombers realy need to take loats of punishment before they start to burn. I am talking about Ju-55. Quite resilent.

On the old Spit, can you fire machine guns and cannons at the same time?

thefruitbat
10-23-2009, 12:51 PM
To fire both guns at the same time, go to controls, scroll down and you will weapon1&2, agsign a key/button/trigger to it, job done.

with regards to trimming, you have to constantley trim your plane, with every power and speed change, it soon becomes second nature.
Thats the nature of prop planes.

With bombers, aim for the engines, they soon go down then.

roybaty
10-23-2009, 01:17 PM
Originally posted by DROBNJAK1960:

Another thing, unlike in WWII Fighters, bombers realy need to take loats of punishment before they start to burn. I am talking about Ju-55. Quite resilent.


A Ju-55? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

TS_Sancho
10-23-2009, 01:39 PM
Hello and welcome DROBNJAK1960

Regarding your rudder problem start the game, click hardware setup, click input and you'll find sensitivity adjustments for yaw, pitch and roll.

Read Bearcats nuggets guide, it will get you started on the right track and explains these functions.

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/foru...3110283/m/9121094645 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/9121094645)

As others have stated, the stretched cockpit is a result of an incorrect resolution setting.

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/foru...9310655/m/7111009546 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/49310655/m/7111009546)

Jets more fun than props? Give it a couple of months and see if you still feel the same.

Hope this helps and have fun.

Xiolablu3
10-23-2009, 03:03 PM
Spitfire is one of the weakest planes and has the same engine as the P51.

I think it is just your early experiences that you were unlucky with teh p51 and lucky with the Spit.

I have been flying the sim for years now and I wouldnt say that the Spitfire was stronger than the P51 with reagrds to damage it can take.

Choctaw111
10-23-2009, 03:37 PM
WW2 fighters was good for the time. When was that, 1998, or 99?
When Il2 came out, I was blown away, even by WW2 Fighters standards.

The_Stealth_Owl
10-23-2009, 03:45 PM
Lock-On is far more complex


LMAO!

Absalutly not "far more complex"!


IL2 is THE best game in the history of flight.


But, whatever floats your boat. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


Lockon only enterteined me for 5 minutes. TYhen I got sick of it and played IL2.

roybaty
10-23-2009, 04:00 PM
Actually I agree that LOMAC is more complex, you have to manage radar and weapons, and dodge missiles all the while. Blackshark is even more intense.

But complexity is both a blessing and a course, I just get frustrated being a systems manager all the time, and wanna point my nose at a visual target and shoot at it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

The physics and flight modeling in BS are superior to IL2 IMO, i'm not knocking IL2, just showing it's age is all, SoW should fix that.


Originally posted by The_Stealth_Owl:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Lock-On is far more complex


LMAO!

Absalutly not "far more complex"!


IL2 is THE best game in the history of flight.


But, whatever floats your boat. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


Lockon only enterteined me for 5 minutes. TYhen I got sick of it and played IL2. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bearcat99
10-23-2009, 04:16 PM
Welcome aboard DROBNJAK ...

If you think Jane's has better pits then you just haven't flown in many of them for any length of time or your graphics are set up incorrectly or you have a weak rig.. one, all or a combo of the 3.

As for the Mustang being a girly plane.. Considering that you have been flying the sim for a week.. (No offense whatsoever intended..) it is way too early for you to have any real perception of the true strengths and/or weaknesses of any of these planes.. so... thanks for the first impressions.. but I am really looking forward to the update http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

and there will indeed be an update.. guaranteed..

You still haven't gotten your stick set up properly yet.. and forget about an effective controls map.. and again.. no offense.. but it is just too early... Whatever setup you do have even if it seems to work for you at the moment I guarantee you will tweak at least 2 more times as you grow more familiar with the sim and find out how you like to fly it.

Again.. Welcome aboard !! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

.. and I look forward to those later impressions http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

BTW... Owl that is the best avatar you have come up with to date IMO.

roybaty
10-23-2009, 05:40 PM
The Mustang's strength is its speed, I fly LW most of the time, and give them lots of respect http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

RPMcMurphy
10-23-2009, 07:18 PM
DROBJAK, Jane's WW2 was good, but IL2 gives you the ability to replay and watch the entire battle by using tracks in case you have'nt noticed. I thought that was a big + over Jane's among a myriad of other things.

Frankthetank36
10-23-2009, 07:33 PM
Originally posted by thefruitbat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DROBNJAK1960:

IL2 in comparison with WWII Fighters, is less eye candy, particularly bad is that all the cockpits are oddly elongated in the vertical plane. WWII fighters had cockpits done right. But hey, what a heck, who cares about odd cockpits, when overall realism is 110% unbelievable. Flight model is brilliant, really hard to fly.

Is there a better way to control the rudder?

If your cockpits are elongated in the vertical plane, then you've managed to do something funky in il2setup, cause mine aren't, what resolution are you using?

as to the last point, rudder pedals.

oh and less eye candy than janes WWII fighters,

Really?

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y290/thefruitbat1/grab0011-3-1.jpg

fruitbat </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is this Jane's or an IL-2 mod? Why don't any of the planes in the stock IL-2 (or MCFS, for that matter) have a rearview mirror??? Sure would make dodging bandits in the Spit easier.

Anyway I've never played LOMAC but from what I've heard it's an absolute pig framerate-wise, even if the graphics are great and it's super complex. I'm using a medium spec laptop and have most of the graphics options in IL2 turned all the way up (with the exception of using low detail clouds and the second-best setting for scenery detail) and it runs great (on my computer, has a much better detail/framerate ratio than any MFS), the only slowdown I ever experienced was during an epic carrier battle with like 60 planes and 10 ships. I can see how you would consider jet sims more fun at first, but there is more strategy to IL2 since you actually have to aim and manage energy in a WWII sim.

thefruitbat
10-23-2009, 07:54 PM
Originally posted by Frankthetank36:

Is this Jane's or an IL-2 mod? Why don't any of the planes in the stock IL-2 (or MCFS, for that matter) have a rearview mirror??? Sure would make dodging bandits in the Spit easier.



Have you ever tried mapping a key to 'toggle mirrors show/hide' in the controls menu.

guess what happens.

Frankthetank36
10-23-2009, 09:00 PM
Thanks... Didn't notice that that was a command.

DROBNJAK1960
10-24-2009, 12:28 AM
...
Read Bearcats nuggets guide, it will get you started on the right track and explains these functions.

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/foru...3110283/m/9121094645 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/9121094645)

As others have stated, the stretched cockpit is a result of an incorrect resolution setting.

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/foru...9310655/m/7111009546 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/49310655/m/7111009546)

...

This links are great TS_Sancho, thanks for them. There is an explanation how to modify con fig file to make your rudder (and other controls) to respond in a smooth linear fashion, which is just what I want.

Just few more questions for the experts. I searched the key mappings, but didn't find what I was looking for:

1) There is that in flight map, that one can call with M key. Is there a way to zoom out a bit?

2) Are there any comms? Can I fly with AI wing men and issue them with commands like "Attack my Target", "Join Formation" etc. Sorry, this stuff is all from the LockOn.

BVR dogfight with missiles requires very little skill and that is what makes WWII planes so much more exciting. Plus WWII planes are trickier to fly, because they are so underpowered in comparison with jets. It is like weight lifting versus ballet.

On other hand, fighting with jets, actually one should rather say with radars, is more intellectual game than your seat of the pants bullet dodging in a prop. There are so many different avionics to operate in a modern planes in order to get the situational awareness.

DROBNJAK1960
10-24-2009, 12:44 AM
my personal thanks to Bearcat99 for doing that comprehensive "Taking Off the Ground with IL2" guide for noobs.

When I said that P-51 was girly plane, it was nothing personal. P-51 was not designed with shooting down bombers in mind. P-51 is classy fighter to fighter fighter. In contrast FW-190 was made just for that, and at least in IL2, it really can take punishment. Probably P-47 will come out the best, for bomber attack roles. I am actually going to test them all, as soon as I set my rudder to linear response, that is ;-)

On other hand, had anybody tried flying those hypothetical planes, like Mig-9. It is such an agricultural machine, typical Russian plane. Cannons are so strong they almost stol the wings when you start shooting. I tried some Yak, late 1944 design, and it seems that all Russian planes generally have that rough rural feel to them, in comparison with refinement of the Spits and Butcher Birds. No offense meant to Russians, just compliment to the perfection of the flight model.

M_Gunz
10-24-2009, 04:12 AM
From the Aircraft.pdf on DVD-2 section on Mig-9

* When using the 37mm cannon above 3,000 meters the gun exhaust may get sucked into the
engine intake. Above 6,000 meters using the cannon is prohibited.
Note: this information is different from what may br found in other sources; however it is
based on the pilot operating handbook for the MiG-9.

Nice of a Russian company to model this weakness that others may not find out about.