PDA

View Full Version : What happened to TA152 in 3.0



Von_Rat
11-14-2004, 11:43 PM
i was under the impression that the problems with the ta 152, such as poor acceleration and e retention at all alts, and overheating, slow climb and poor handling performance at hi alt, were going to be addressed in 3.0.

i haven't had a chance to do extensive testing yet, but it seems to me that other than higher sea level speed the ta 152 is even worse than before.
it seems like its the same flight model from when it was 1st introduced.

in other threads its been stated that e bleed and stalls have been made easier in 3.0.
if this is true, the ta 152 has not benifeted from these. if anything its worse.

as i said i have finished testing, so if anybody has any information or opinion on the ta's 3.0 prformance, i'd be happy to hear it.

Hptm.Keule
11-15-2004, 04:09 AM
Hi Von_Rat!
I am with You!
Let me clear something to everybody who thinks that Ta 152 is made quite good in FB.
I will cite Willy Reshke - Luftwaffe pilot, who in 1945 shut down in one combat with Ta 152 three Yak 9! The fight began three against one.
He says:
"At all altitudes Ta 152 has supreme advantige over <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">ALL</span> allied aircrafts...At altitudes between 6000m and 8000m, I had that feeling, like Ta 152 is turning at a place..."
You can se nothing like this in FB.

I mean:
Cockpit is done very good, but the performance of flight characteristic is not fair!

Regards!

dadada1
11-15-2004, 04:22 AM
I've been a Ta pilot since it became available and I have to say you may need to spend a little more time to re-assess your initial impressions. If you take the Ta up to around 10,000m (where its meant to be), you will find some improvements in it's ability to manouver in thin air when compared to say the P51 and Spitfire. Something it was significantly worse at before 3.0. , beleive me.

Overall though the generic sim flight model is more forgiving so that may explain some of the improvements I've noticed at lower altitudes. Overheating is the same as before, but I think E retention is better and climb I think is good( too good if you compare with it,s official stats, though others in game are the same and worse) climb is nothing to complain about. Sea level speed should not be better, if it is it's probably wrong.


Give it another try I think it has been tweaked for high altitude now.(as it should be)

Maple_Tiger
11-15-2004, 04:23 AM
So it's faster then the P-47N/M or P-51H? lol.

In 2.04, they improved the TA152. The issue was solved. You just have know idea how to fly it.

sapre
11-15-2004, 04:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hptm.Keule:
Hi Von_Rat!
I am with You!
Let me clear something to everybody who thinks that Ta 152 is made quite good in FB.
I will cite Willy Reshke - Luftwaffe pilot, who in 1945 shut down in one combat with Ta 152 three Yak 9! The fight began three against one.
He says:
"At all altitudes Ta 152 has supreme advantige over <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">ALL</span> allied aircrafts...At altitudes between 6000m and 8000m, I had that feeling, like Ta 152 is turning at a place..."
You can se nothing like this in FB.

I mean:
Cockpit is done very good, but the performance of flight characteristic is not fair!

Regards! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Sadly these sort of pilot account is pretty useless discussing FM.

dadada1
11-15-2004, 05:02 AM
Thats right sapre, lots of pilots feel there plane is superior, what about P 38 pilot claiming they could outurn the Zero?

chris455
11-15-2004, 07:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Thats right sapre, lots of pilots feel there plane is superior, what about P 38 pilot claiming they could outurn the Zero? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

At high speeds (250mph+), that happens real easy.

dadada1
11-15-2004, 08:16 AM
Obviously I meant low speed, which really is beyond belief.

BBB_Hyperion
11-15-2004, 08:21 AM
Wonder how long it takes until Zen appears http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

quiet_man
11-15-2004, 09:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Maple_Tiger:
So it's faster then the P-47N/M or P-51H? lol.

In 2.04, they improved the TA152. The issue was solved. You just have know idea how to fly it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Who said it should be faster than P-47N/M or P-51H?

reflex post?

Regards,
quiet_man

crazyivan1970
11-15-2004, 10:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BBB_Hyperion:
Wonder how long it takes until Zen appears http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Anytime now.... do you hear the thunder?? Do you see lightning? Zen inbound!!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Maple_Tiger
11-15-2004, 02:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by quiet_man:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Maple_Tiger:
So it's faster then the P-47N/M or P-51H? lol.

In 2.04, they improved the TA152. The issue was solved. You just have know idea how to fly it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Who said it should be faster than P-47N/M or P-51H?

reflex post?

Regards,
quiet_man <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Hptm.Keule:
Hi Von_Rat!
I am with You!
Let me clear something to everybody who thinks that Ta 152 is made quite good in FB.
I will cite Willy Reshke - Luftwaffe pilot, who in 1945 shut down in one combat with Ta 152 three Yak 9! The fight began three against one.
He says:
"At all altitudes Ta 152 has supreme advantige over ALL allied aircrafts...At altitudes between 6000m and 8000m, I had that feeling, like Ta 152 is turning at a place..."
You can se nothing like this in FB.

I mean:
Cockpit is done very good, but the performance of flight characteristic is not fair!

Regards!



Does this help answer you'r question?

Zen--
11-15-2004, 03:01 PM
S~ all, I've been away from the game for a bit and haven't been flying the Ta alot either (very few servers have it obviously, everything is PF), but my impression that this time around in 3.0 the Ta152 is better than it's ever been since inception.

I feel very comfortable saying the Ta has the power and acceleration of the D9 as well as the phenomenal climb rate. The energy retention characteristics of the D9 and the Ta152 are extremely good now when flown on the line and when handled in a tight, precise manner both planes are quite competitive against most kinds of fighters...even at E disadvantage. Naturally I can't make a universal statement because there may be undiscovered UFO's out there and at the same time I haven't had the opportunity to fly against humans in every possible fighter there is, but based on my knowledge of how it was in 2.04 and extrapolating the improvements logically, I feel the Ta152 is now a serious E fighter and can probably match most, if not all of the allied fighters. I don't count high altitude flight, I haven't had the chance to do any flying over 7k in it yet, so I really can't comment unfortunately.

I also think people have gotten used to a certain energy model in 2.04 that didn't really favor certain kinds of fighting but now here in 3.0 we have a physics engine that rewards disciplined pilots and hinders pilots who don't take care with stick forces. My impression of all the air to air combat history that I have read is that energy is critical to success in real life and with 3.0 it feels like energy itself has been pushed to the front much more so than in 2.04, at least so far as I've seen. Pure yank and bank without regard for total E state seems to invite disaster for the careless pilot and perhaps thats what makes the careful and disciplined flying (the line) appears to yield better results in 3.0, more like the way things were in fb1.22, but still....different...in some way. I can't really put my finger on it yet to be honest.



All I can say is that if you feel the Ta152 is worse now than before, I think I can see the point but I can't really agree. My flying style in the game is totally based on the 190 series all the way back from IL2 original and I have never been a TnB kind of pilot. The 190 taught me E fighting, taught me a subtler side of the game and made me very sensitive to FM and physics engine changes. The Ta was a dog in 2.0 and only marginally better in 2.04 but in 3.0 it feels more powerful, more appropriate somehow. Really, if anything the plane climbs too well (Robban and Hyperion feel free to correct me on that point, I can't remember the hard numbers on the Ta152) ...but other areas seem to be in line with what I would expect the Ta to fly like based on anecdotal comparisons with the Dora from real life. In game I think we have this now, the two planes match more closely than they used to imho and we now begin to see something more similar to why the 190's had such a great reputation in real life.

Just my opinion, but I think the Ta is improved over 2.04. Not easier to fly (though the snap stall of death is reduced fortunately) but the physics engine yields better results for flying on the line than it did in 2.04.


<S>

crazyivan1970
11-15-2004, 03:32 PM
Take that! Welcome back Zen http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

quiet_man
11-15-2004, 03:34 PM
@Maple_Tiger
I have no problem with critics at the orignal post, but reread youre answer, youre logic leads to: P-47N/M and P-51H are as good as Yak9

did you realy wanted to say this? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

the Yak9 is a good fighter, but compared to a brand new 1945 class Ta controlled by a top pilot?

The Ta in the game is okey for me, I would take a look at the geneal FM and at some planes that work a bit to good at mid to high alt

Regards,
quiet_man

Maple_Tiger
11-15-2004, 03:41 PM
Yet, another excelant post.

I flew the T-152 a few times, in 2.0, when it was necesary. I was impressed with the improvment in 2.04. Now you'r saying that it is a little better?

Exuse me, but I must leave to play with my 4th favorite plane. Please don't tell anyone though.

Maple_Tiger
11-15-2004, 03:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by quiet_man:
@Maple_Tiger
I have no problem with critics at the orignal post, but reread youre answer, youre logic leads to: P-47N/M and P-51H are as good as Yak9

did you realy wanted to say this? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

the Yak9 is a good fighter, but compared to a brand new 1945 class Ta controlled by a top pilot?

The Ta in the game is okey for me, I would take a look at the geneal FM and at some planes that work a bit to good at mid to high alt

Regards,
quiet_man <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



Now you have me confused. I never typed a word about the Yak-9.



Originally posted by Hptm.Keule:
Hi Von_Rat!
I am with You!
Let me clear something to everybody who thinks that Ta 152 is made quite good in FB.
I will cite Willy Reshke - Luftwaffe pilot, who in 1945 shut down in one combat with Ta 152 three Yak 9! The fight began three against one.
He says:
"At all altitudes Ta 152 has supreme advantige over ALL allied aircrafts...At altitudes between 6000m and 8000m, I had that feeling, like Ta 152 is turning at a place..."
You can se nothing like this in FB.



Just to help point out the part that should be focused on,


"At all altitudes Ta 152 has supreme advantige over ALL allied aircrafts...At altitudes between 6000m and 8000m, I had that feeling, like Ta 152 is turning at a place..."

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Von_Rat
11-16-2004, 12:22 AM
nice post zen

as i stated in my post i haven't had time to extensivly test the ta, so thanks for your input.

one thing you didn't mention in your post was the ta's hi alt overheating. it seems to me that almost any plane with decent performance, can catch the ta, even hi up, just by following it long enough till the ta is forced to slow down from overheating.

i can live with any other faults the ta may have. but getting slowly caught at hi alt because of overheating really gets to me.

oh,, even though i sometimes sucumb to temptation, i try not to use the ta152 as a tnb plane. i try to use it as a bnz plane, with some success in 2.04 i might add.
its my impression that using it as a bnz plane is harder than before. perhaps the problem lies not with the ta itself, but with the gobal change that some say has occurred.

but until i can do some testing of the ta performence vs its main opposition, (in both 2.04 and 3.0.) it'll have to remain speculation.

dadada1
11-16-2004, 02:24 AM
I agree that the overheat in the time in the Ta is apalling, and that it should'nt get overhauled by any other aircraft "in game" . I thought this was going to be addressed but now I'm thinking it may never happen. Like Zen says it is better than it was at in 2.04, I've found it superior to most allied fighters in manouvering above 7500m. Take it up to 10,000m and I think it's even better, but as for the overheat, sheesh!

Von_Rat
11-16-2004, 03:18 AM
hi dadada1

just did some hi alt speed testing. the ta does have a good speed advantage on p51 9000+. even with engine throttled back to avoid overheat you can still outrun p51.
but heres a kicker. the p47 has only slighty slower speed in game than ta can sustain at 9k, and i mean slighty. according to object viewer the p47 is 60 kph slower at 9k. but heres one reason, i was running p47 with rad closed, wep, max throttle, to check top speed at 9k, after awhile i noticed, hey where's the overheat warning. only then did i look at clock, waited ten more mins. rads still closed, still max throttle, wep, still no overheat warning, or drop in performance. don't have time tonite to see if it ever comes on, but it looks like the spits no overheat bug has migrated to the p47. i'll double check tomorrow to be sure.

and yes games overheat is on, i got p51 and ta to overheat just fine.

dadada1
11-16-2004, 04:35 AM
I've not spent much time in that ugly monstrosity (the P47) but I have heard others, Zen included saying it's difficult to outrun the P47D. This is odd/wrong when you take into account the official stats (not the object viewer) for each of these aircraft. The Ta should enjoy at least a 50 MPH advantage at around 9500-10,000m,. If this is not reflected in game, its not correct. The only alternative is to switch-off overheat option for offline flying, then you'll find Ta has plenty of speed. On-line is a different story. Any other Ta flyers out there that can support Von_Rat in his findings would be appreciated? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

WOLFMondo
11-16-2004, 04:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Von_Rat:
but it looks like the spits no overheat bug has migrated to the p47. i'll double check tomorrow to be sure. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

it seems to overheat just like normal below 3000m but when up high the P47 seems to never overheat, at around 7000m you can keep the rads closed indefinatly but could that be a correct? Its a big radial open to the elements and it gets very cold as you get higher?

dadada1
11-16-2004, 05:19 AM
Interesting findings WOLFMondo. The Ta is an inline but it has a big annular radiator up front so its cooling system should be effeciant. It should still outpace the P47 with ease rather than the current juggling with rad flaps currently in game, I re-iterate max speeds. P47D-427 mph, Ta 152 H1-472 mph

BBB_Hyperion
11-16-2004, 05:28 AM
For H0 some comparison (We have H1 Model that has MW50 + GM1 injection and was a little heavier )

http://www.butcherbirds.de/hypesstorage/ta152h0t.jpg

Here is the Temp for different ATA Pressures on ina normal day conditions. This is without MW50.
http://www.butcherbirds.de/hypesstorage/tah0tempt.jpg

Here is the Limit for different rpm settings without mw50.

http://www.butcherbirds.de/hypesstorage/tah0temp2t.jpg

Happy testing .)

dadada1
11-16-2004, 05:33 AM
Great info, but can you translate at all?

BBB_Hyperion
11-16-2004, 06:17 AM
On the fly translation beware of typos and errors .)

dadada1
11-16-2004, 07:00 AM
Thanks Hyperion,very much appreciated I'm sure.

robban75
11-16-2004, 10:06 AM
Man, I'd love to be able to shime in here, but I don't have PF, and I haven't ordered it. Perhaps I should, I'd still be flying the D-9 though. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

I was wondering. Is the better E-retention something that benefits all planes or is it solely for the Ta 152? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Btw, I haven't had internet for about a month and a half, I was back online yesterday, and it feels good, I guess I'm an internet addict! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

faustnik
11-16-2004, 10:22 AM
It's worth ordering PF just for the improved muzzle flash Robban. E-retention seems better in all the Fw190s seems better to me but, Oleg insists that only the Dora FM has been changed. There are some great new targets for Fw190s including A-20s, B-24s, Spit XIII, Beaufighters and Fleet Air Arm Hellcats and Corsairs.

Good stuff! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

p1ngu666
11-16-2004, 01:13 PM
on he111 theres temp guage, look up and right by fuel gauges, its -50c at 10,000 or sumin **** cold.

now, if u think ta152 is unfair at high alt, plonk ur butt in a yak.

now, engine in yak loses power, so u go slower, we know this, but less power = less heat...

at a manifold pressure u cant get a sl, unless u below stall speed... yak overheats at high alt, rad open too...

ta152 has decent speed, but dodgy overheat, yak has **** speed and wrong overheat..

overheat has been used to make planes stick to certain alts and other things...

shame really http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

BBB_Hyperion
11-16-2004, 02:07 PM
I have my doubts about the cooling systems on several planes .)

Indeed at about -53 degrees at 10000 m you might need to close cooling flaps cause the engine might be undercooling .) . Then its not only -53 degrees Celsius but the movement speed adds to the cooling effect.

I have so far some indications that cooling systems in general perform too weak not on all planes but surely on some and that they dont work in real life parameters at all.

That is easily to see as your temp gauge is over scale all the time .) Who would build a cooling system where the temp gauge cant be read ?

So far i wasnt be able to create a reproduction of the cooling effect of several cooling systems cause i dont have the details needed such as cooling liquid heat absorbing index and cooling area and airflow pressure over it etc.

When somone has this info we might be able to create a simulation of cooling systems and look how they work compared to manual parameters and then compare to Il2FB AEP PF.

Zen--
11-16-2004, 05:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Von_Rat:
nice post zen

as i stated in my post i haven't had time to extensivly test the ta, so thanks for your input.

one thing you didn't mention in your post was the ta's hi alt overheating. it seems to me that almost any plane with decent performance, can catch the ta, even hi up, just by following it long enough till the ta is forced to slow down from overheating.

i can live with any other faults the ta may have. but getting slowly caught at hi alt because of overheating really gets to me.

oh,, even though i sometimes sucumb to temptation, i try not to use the ta152 as a tnb plane. i try to use it as a bnz plane, with some success in 2.04 i might add.
its my impression that using it as a bnz plane is harder than before. perhaps the problem lies not with the ta itself, but with the gobal change that some say has occurred.

but until i can do some testing of the ta performence vs its main opposition, (in both 2.04 and 3.0.) it'll have to remain speculation. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I didn't mention that part because I doubt that it will ever change. For whatever reason overheat has been a problem for the german inline engines as far back as I can remember and the time factor before power must be reduced really hasn't varied much either. I've learned to live with it naturally but up high it stands out as a glaring problem with the Ta152, so much so that I personally feel the plane is useless compared to it's competition at those heights. Because of that I really have little interest to invest the time required to get to 9K+ when I know that I will probably be outflown by the P47's that I meet there.

How do I know that? Because the only pilots you meet at 10K are the ones who know what they are doing... and they all know about the Ta's overheat issue. A P47 driver can easily fly combat manuevers at 90% throttle while the Ta doesn't have much choice except to firewall it and hope for the rapid kill. I spend time in both planes specifically to understand what options are available and what I am likely to face when meeeting a skilled P47 pilot. I've also done specific testing 1 on 1 against a skilled P47 pilot a ways back.

For the Ta152, it's pretty grim up there precisely because of the overheat issue and it's not like the Ta is going to outturn a P47 by a large margin, if it even can in the first place, so options for the Ta are limited up high.


As for BnZ, I'm still out on the fence I guess. The Ta has a great dive speed and thats about all I ever look for in a BnZ fighter, but then again, any plane with a good dive rate and big guns can excel at BnZ assuming you have enough E margin to begin with, so it's hard for me to even to classify the Ta this way. I actually don't BnZ alot since it's generally too predictable, but I'd say the Ta is as good or better than any other 190, definately better than the D9 because of the MK108 and better than the Antons because of superior climb and acceleration.

I use the Ta as an energy fighter like the D9, but I still feel somewhat safer in the Dora because of it's more predictable handling in tight quarters. I will only rarely fly it up high because while the view is nice, the overheat issue is too frustrating. Most fights at high altitude are long duration and the Ta just doesn't have the legs for it.

Zen--
11-16-2004, 05:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by robban75:
Man, I'd love to be able to shime in here, but I don't have PF, and I haven't ordered it. Perhaps I should, I'd still be flying the D-9 though. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

I was wondering. Is the better E-retention something that benefits all planes or is it solely for the Ta 152? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm still flying the D9/Ta152, I can't stand all that blue water http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Funny thing is that it's almost impossible to find a server that has good settings and 190's. Everything is all PF PF PF, which is fine for everyone else, it's just not my cup of tea. Hopefully things will balance out soon, I'm not having much fun right now lol. Don't care about landing on carriers, never been a corsair fan, not really impressed with all the new gidgets and gadgets, so I'm ready for a good western/eastern front server to make it's appearance.

The global physics engine is the main change and it seems it has changed in favor of E fighters, it feels more like FB 1.22 than anything else has in a long long time. But I have seen a few instances of planes that appear to float in the vertical and can do that old La7 180 reversal trick famous from back then...though I hesitate to say for sure, it might simply be that I made a mistake in judging their E state here in the new game. It did scare the heck outta me, I haven't seen an La7 crawl up my D9 backside like that in a long time http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif



All things considered I think I like PF more than any version of AEP, (especially 2.04) although I find that lately I wish things were more IL2-ish in general. Seeing as how I know you are a die hard 190 fan, you should probably get PF...I think there is only one more patch coming, so we might finally get a 190 that never changes! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

TX-Gunslinger
11-16-2004, 09:38 PM
Amen, brother, Amen.....

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110283&m=8591092242

Maybe Saturday things will look up for us?

The TA is somewhat better, now. Thanks. Maybe one day the overheat thing will go away. One learns to be happy and thankfull for little steps.........becuase they are better than no steps at all.

Von_Rat
11-17-2004, 12:04 AM
i agree with you zen about the ta152 being crippled by its overheat, versus the p47, hi up. i cant seem to ever reach top speed in ta, without blowing engine. p47 seems like it can run max, wep, closed rad all day, hi up. won't know for sure what limit, if any, p47s overheat has, till i have more time to test.

but one thing im pretty sure of is,,,

A. the ta overheats to quick hi up.
B. the p47 overheats to slow, if at all, hi up.
C. the ta is to slow hi up.
D. the p47 is to fast hi up.

im pretty sure the answer lies in one or more of the above.

even if the p47 could fly at 9k with rads closed, it still should not be catching the ta152.

also it seems that the even though the ta might handle better than p51 up hi, in my limited testing so far the p47 got it beat in the hi up handling deptartment. so much for those big wings huh.

some can argue that, so what, the game engine was never designed for hi alt anyway. all i can say, is that the ta 152hs whole reason for exsistance was to be a fast hi alt intercepter. if the game developers can't, or won't, model it with its correct hi alt performence (versus its opponents), they should just pull it from the game, and replace it with the ta152c.

dadada1
11-17-2004, 04:01 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Von_Rat:
i agree with you zen about the ta152 being crippled by its overheat, versus the p47, hi up. i cant seem to ever reach top speed in ta, without blowing engine. p47 seems like it can run max, wep, closed rad all day, hi up. won't know for sure what limit, if any, p47s overheat has, till i have more time to test.

but one thing im pretty sure of is,,,

A. the ta overheats to quick hi up.
B. the p47 overheats to slow, if at all, hi up.
C. the ta is to slow hi up.
D. the p47 is to fast hi up.

im pretty sure the answer lies in one or more of the above.

even if the p47 could fly at 9k with rads closed, it still should not be catching the ta152.

also it seems that the even though the ta might handle better than p51 up hi, in my limited testing so far the p47 got it beat in the hi up handling deptartment. so much for those big wings huh.

some can argue that, so what, the game engine was never designed for hi alt anyway. all i can say, is that the ta 152hs whole reason for exsistance was to be a fast hi alt intercepter. if the game developers can't, or won't, model it with its correct hi alt performence (versus its opponents), they should just pull it from the game, and replace it with the ta152c. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Von_Rat, firstly I think your correct in your assertion that a P47D should not catch a Ta 152 at 9K, the Ta should have legs to spare. I'm not sure about the handling comparison because I don't fly the P47 very often so maybe your right. A few things things come to mind about the reast of your post. Firstly if they can make the P47 fly well at high altitude the arguement that the game engine was never meant to to that is obsolete, there simply are no excuses. Secondly you should try the game without the overheat switch selected, you will find that the Ta 152 reaches and even surpasses it's official maximum speed,(though why you should have to do that is again a cause of consternation), robban knows this well and I'm sure he would agree. Thirdly I don't think that pulling the H-1 in favour of C is not the answer. The C is a heavier(therfore less manouverble) heavy fighter or destroyer, great for killing bombers but not likely to be able to compete with nible allied fighters. Most of the late allied fighters have sufficient speed to catch the C and they'll certainly be able to outmanouver or out E fight it. The C's only trump card is weaponary, which limits it use to a a one strike then out type, even in a one on one situation. The best candidates for replacement Focke Wulfs are the D11 and D13, improved high performance successors to the D9, we may see these we may not. Also I feel we should continue to discuss these issues in this forum until the developer gets the message rather than throw away the H1. The H is improving with each patch and it seems like the developer can only deal with one issue at a time. I'm sure in the future we will see the Ta eventually attain the performance that we would expect from it.

Von_Rat
11-17-2004, 04:37 AM
hi dadada1

the speeds i have for the ta152c fighter- fighter bomber from dieter harmanns book are,

617kph sea level

687kph at maxium boost altitude, which alt that is, it doen't say.

so at sea level, it would be fastest plane in game, i believe.

even if the ta152c can't dogfight,,it'll make one helluva fighter bomber with that speed.

i totally agree with your arguement, that there is no excuses for the ta's poor performance at alt.

i flew the 3.0 version of the d9 for the 1st time tonite,,, all i can say is WOW.

it flys like i always thought a fw should. it still isn't a tnb plane by any means, but is now one heck of a e fighter. to bad the ta doesn't have its accelaration and e retention.

now if we could only get a better forward view, and 20mm that works, then the d9 would be the best fighter in game.

dadada1
11-17-2004, 11:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Von_Rat:
hi dadada1

the speeds i have for the ta152c fighter- fighter bomber from dieter harmanns book are,

617kph sea level

687kph at maxium boost altitude, which alt that is, it doen't say.

so at sea level, it would be fastest plane in game, i believe.

even if the ta152c can't dogfight,,it'll make one helluva fighter bomber with that speed.

i totally agree with your arguement, that there is no excuses for the ta's poor performance at alt.

i flew the 3.0 version of the d9 for the 1st time tonite,,, all i can say is WOW.

it flys like i always thought a fw should. it still isn't a tnb plane by any means, but is now one heck of a e fighter. to bad the ta doesn't have its accelaration and e retention.

now if we could only get a better forward view, and 20mm that works, then the d9 would be the best fighter in game. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The D9 has'nt always flown well in my opinion, I remember my disappointment when it was first introduced to the Il2 series. I always had to use extended turns and loops in order to gain advantage on opponents, espescially with the 45 version which was very easy to stall. The AI in game had absolutely no idea of how to fly this fighter at all and would regularly get shot down long before myself, leaving me to deal with numerous opponents. It has slowly improved with time into the plane it is now because people did'nt give up on it and kept pressing the developer for improvements. The same thing may happen to the Ta given time and nagging. The real drawback with the C is that as far as I know it only reached the prototype stage and missed out on any service, so if it is introduced expect a lot of protest.

p1ngu666
11-17-2004, 12:20 PM
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=windchill+calculator+at+high+alt&meta=

maybe u can find sumin there

the yak is still at a greater disadvantage cos no power, but still overheats. ta152 has power..

dadada1
11-17-2004, 12:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=windchill+calculator+at+high+alt&meta=

maybe u can find sumin there

the yak is still at a greater disadvantage cos no power, but still overheats. ta152 has power.. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Does the Yak have a power disadvantage between altitudes 0 up to around 6000m? Using overheat to control AC speed is clearly laziness on the part of the programmers.

p1ngu666
11-17-2004, 01:15 PM
oh yeah it drops power, u dont accelorate as well, or retain speed, top speed isnt so much effected, but takes ages to get there...
at 10,000m, its producin naff all power really, u can see a mercury gauge for manifold pressure i think, at 10,000m notice its readin at max throttle, now take the plane down low...

10,000m manifold pressure is abasmal, u cant get it at sl its THAT low.
so its producing maybe 500hp or something ****, but overheats still, when it can take 3x that power down low http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

TgD Thunderbolt56
11-17-2004, 01:17 PM
Hey Zen!

Do you have PF yet? It would seem a foregone conclusion that you would want to pick it up so you will be compatible with the majority of online servers. If you already have it, then rest assured that at greatergreen we will continue offering a mix of maps to include Eastern front, Western front ant PTO.

TB

p1ngu666
11-17-2004, 01:37 PM
zen has pf http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

LEXX_Luthor
11-17-2004, 05:38 PM
Zen, how about a campaign to turn OFF onwhine overheat? With overheat OFF, your Ta would be useful at high level against your P~47 opponents.

I never cared about overheat, and I play offwhine (only) and overheat OFF. For one thing, AI doesn't suffer and yes overheat has always been Bizzare in FB (yes, La~5 is peculiar hideous) so its like...ha forget it. The main reason for overheat OFF is because with the moronic cyclic rad controls that you cannot keep track of without hud text, you can turn off overheat and you don't need the rad control hud text. I claim overheat OFF is more Full Real than hud text.

The only exception is I~185 and its sexy cowl flaps that I can see are open or closed from inside the cockpit without use of hud text. I~185 alone makes me want to fly with overheat ON.

p1ngu666
11-17-2004, 07:56 PM
ironic, given that it dont often overheat http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif