View Full Version : Oleg: please grant an exception to the 37mm M4

02-21-2005, 11:39 PM
In another thread we got some good information on the big caliber guns, including the P39€s M4. It seems that apparent direct hits with fireballs and debris clouds can have no impact on the bandit. MK 108 same deal. But maybe not offline (sorry haven€t tested myself). I seem to remember early MK108s seemed to be much more powerful, or at least effective.

So my guess is that Oleg€s damage/gun model in some way probably overstates the damage of each heavy caliber round, so that whereas in RL you could take a hit and sometimes cripple away, ingame they were just blowing all to ****. So maybe the boys added some code to null some hits, instead of tweaking (rebuilding more like) the hit/damage routines.

So my proposal is that Oleg and the boys take pity on the two rounds/sec and severe trajectory drop (compared to the MK108 anyway) of the M4 and grant it an exemption (if the above is at all true of course€¦). I mean I could live with the two .50s of the Q10 if I knew a point blank shot would be for sure€¦. you can arrange for that kind of shot.

If this is old news let me know I've been around a while but not regular playing or posting - pretty much a dabbler really. But I do thoroughly enjoy the game and am a bonafide gearhead RL - I approach this game with interest and study. In this case the Q10 is hardly viable with a dud gun and I enjoy flying the 39 better than any other... just looking for some evenness.


02-22-2005, 05:20 PM
Your asking for the M4 to be a guarenteed one hit kill? Its an incredibly deadly weapon if you know how to use it and you just have to realize that online netplay doesn't tell the full story. Dropped packets and server lag have more to do with this issue than anything else. Offline the M4 is a 1 or 2 hit killer even to large aircraft in the right spots. I've had a P-51 shrug off three Mk108 hit as they appeared on my screen but I wasn't damaged by them, thats online play.

Btw online my record single shot shoot down with the M4 is 650+m on a non manuevering Bf-109, wasn't even a serious shot just trying to spoke him and it landed right in his wing root and took the wing right off.

02-22-2005, 05:37 PM
In real life would a Mk108 round even have any killing force to penetrate armor at 2100 Feet?

02-22-2005, 10:28 PM
gkil:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>But maybe not offline (sorry haven€t tested myself).
- I approach this game with interest and study.
Then you are interested to study offline test.

mmm, maybe online debris cloud calculations are Simplified, maybe for internet purposes or something like that.

02-22-2005, 11:07 PM
LEXX I did do some tests posted in other thread. Beats me but everyone seems to think its just one of them deals.... packetloss etc so who knows. I'm observing odd things on a 2 person LAN with good computers so still packetloss?

PS gkll is like my initials later was pointed out everyone reads it a s good kill - just an accident not someone tripping over their own ego...

02-23-2005, 12:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TriggerHappy57:
In real life would a Mk108 round even have any killing force to penetrate armor at 2100 Feet? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, you have to consider that.

1. It was the M4 I was talking about not the Mk108
2. It was a HE round as it made a nice explosion effect
3. Wing surface material isn't much armor you can jam a pen thru it in the right spots, don't know of any 109s that had armor installed in the wings.

02-23-2005, 12:31 AM
Try offline single play, see what you find.

yes, I read that as gee kill.


02-23-2005, 06:36 AM
M4 shell has worse trajectory than Mk 108? How do you decide that?

If you are looking through the sight then consider the sight may be for the .50's
at convergence and are not firing through the prop hub like the M4. The wing guns
have to fire upwards slightly and will appear to arc higher. What is the case with
Mk 108's in different installations? Appearances from one POV can be very tricky.

You should also not expect all the bits of debris to be more than graphic. How much
framerate loss for every piece to be calculated? I know that before, my plane was
damaged by pieces from my own target. Also the damage model is only so close, again
a trade with framerate. Sometimes in playback at 1/4 I have seen wings pass through
each other with no effect. Really, this is a simulation with so many things going
on. There will be higher priority things I am sure for years to come!

02-24-2005, 08:23 PM
I received a reply from 1C in response to a bug report that I sent in, describing what I felt was the lackluster performance of the 37mm M4.
The reply stated that there was no problem with the destructive power of the gun as far as they are concerned.

02-25-2005, 01:28 AM
The gun is devastating offline. As long as you can manage a hit, you'll see results. I don't know about online, but offline the gun seems to correlate well with the published data.